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$9 minimum wage

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Warforger
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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 13th, 2013 @ 09:24 PM Reply

At 2/13/13 08:52 PM, LemonCrush wrote: He's been rich for a good percentage of his lifetime. Better?

Upper Middle class anyway. He also hasn't done much because he was only in the Senate for 4 years before becoming President and before that he was a state senator, before that he was a "Community Organizer". Hardly a corrupt politician. Tom DeLey is alot more corrupt and is the glisetning example of it.

Of course they don't on paper. It's just a fringe benefit, eh?

Doubt that's the way it works either way.

Hard work doesn't pay for Harvard. Hard work also doesn't pay for Senate and Presidential campaigns.

Scholarships do. Campaign fundraising does. It doesn't mean the big nasty corporations looked at him and saw something amazing and made him their puppet.

But in reality, they don't have more money, because the price of goods rises.

Yah, generally speaking. The problem of course is when it gets too low and doesn't keep up with inflation.


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MOSFET
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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 13th, 2013 @ 09:52 PM Reply

At 2/13/13 08:52 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
They have more money and they don't need welfare payments. Part of the problem actually is that stores such as Walmart take advantage of Government programs like that and take in people on welfare because they can pay them less.
But in reality, they don't have more money, because the price of goods rises.

It sounds like you like having a government subsidized workforce, if only it keeps prices low.
But if paying your employees a living wage is bad, How do places like Costco keep their prices low? They have a starting wage of $12.00/hr

leanlifter1
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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 13th, 2013 @ 10:10 PM Reply

At 2/13/13 09:52 PM, MOSFET wrote:
At 2/13/13 08:52 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
They have more money and they don't need welfare payments. Part of the problem actually is that stores such as Walmart take advantage of Government programs like that and take in people on welfare because they can pay them less.
But in reality, they don't have more money, because the price of goods rises.
It sounds like you like having a government subsidized workforce, if only it keeps prices low.
But if paying your employees a living wage is bad, How do places like Costco keep their prices low? They have a starting wage of $12.00/hr

WallMart and the Government are in cahoots not only in USA but as well as in Canada and I suspect in all other countries that Wallmart is located which is every country that the US has Military installations on um strange isn't it LOL.


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LemonCrush
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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 13th, 2013 @ 10:54 PM Reply

At 2/13/13 09:21 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Point is if America is inflating then they might as well do it for the right and noble reasons but see the problem is they for the most part or not.

The government does nothing for noble reasons. They do it for their own selfish gain

Where ? I stated the US only gives when they receive back in 10 fold also known as coercion.

But you said we don't give money to other countries

No I didn't and now your playing games. Cut the crap and cite you sources.

Dude, you fucking said it

leanlifter1
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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 12:09 AM Reply

At 2/13/13 10:54 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
At 2/13/13 09:21 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Point is if America is inflating then they might as well do it for the right and noble reasons but see the problem is they for the most part or not.
The government does nothing for noble reasons. They do it for their own selfish gain

Where ? I stated the US only gives when they receive back in 10 fold also known as coercion.
But you said we don't give money to other countries

You stated that the US monetary handouts to other countries and I just correct you that the USA extended coercion to other countries.

No I didn't and now your playing games. Cut the crap and cite you sources.
Dude, you fucking said it

Still you have nothing to cite.


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LemonCrush
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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 12:26 AM Reply

At 2/14/13 12:09 AM, leanlifter1 wrote: You stated that the US monetary handouts to other countries and I just correct you that the USA extended coercion to other countries.

Well, this is clearly way over your head

Still you have nothing to cite.

If you can't remember what you posted, that sounds like your problem.

leanlifter1
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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 12:34 AM Reply

At 2/14/13 12:26 AM, LemonCrush wrote:
At 2/14/13 12:09 AM, leanlifter1 wrote: You stated that the US monetary handouts to other countries and I just correct you that the USA extended coercion to other countries.
Well, this is clearly way over your head

Well theirs a troll "Someone does not agree with you so it way over their head" and again please cite your links to where you have based your claims when you state that the US hands out money to "HELP" or subsidies other countries including the EU once again this is your statement not mine so prove it.

If you can't remember what you posted, that sounds like your problem.

You have not proved your opinions that you have stated in this argument.


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LemonCrush
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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 12:48 AM Reply

At 2/14/13 12:34 AM, leanlifter1 wrote: Well theirs a troll "Someone does not agree with you so it way over their head" and again please cite your links to where you have based your claims when you state that the US hands out money to "HELP" or subsidies other countries including the EU once again this is your statement not mine so prove it.

No, it's over your head because you're going around in circles about things I'm not even talking about or disputing.

You have not proved your opinions that you have stated in this argument.

You can't prove an opinion

theburningliberal
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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 01:38 AM Reply

At 2/13/13 09:52 PM, MOSFET wrote:
But if paying your employees a living wage is bad, How do places like Costco keep their prices low? They have a starting wage of $12.00/hr

It's not just CostCo... Many employers are now starting new hires off at hourly rates that exceed minimum wage standards, either state or federal.

I remember LemonCrush ranting about how it will kill jobs... What I'd like to know is how exactly it kills jobs when an increase to 9$ an hour roughly puts federal minimum wage law on par with current industry standards?

I mean... when I first started working for Red Lobster in the dishring, I was making 8.50$ an hour, and was over 9$ within a year. That was in 2008. I know a lot of retail outlets are also moving to pay new hires at a higher pay rate - ranging from 8-10$/hour, depending on the store. I really don't see any issues with this.

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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 01:40 AM Reply

I mean... when I first started working for Red Lobster in the dishring, I was making 8.50$ an hour, and was over 9$ within a year. That was in 2008. I know a lot of retail outlets are also moving to pay new hires at a higher pay rate - ranging from 8-10$/hour, depending on the store. I really don't see any issues with this.

Do you still work there? Do you like seafood? I personally hate fish..

leanlifter1
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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 01:45 AM Reply

At 2/14/13 12:48 AM, LemonCrush wrote:
At 2/14/13 12:34 AM, leanlifter1 wrote: Well theirs a troll "Someone does not agree with you so it way over their head" and again please cite your links to where you have based your claims when you state that the US hands out money to "HELP" or subsidies other countries including the EU once again this is your statement not mine so prove it.
No, it's over your head because you're going around in circles about things I'm not even talking about or disputing.

You have not proved your opinions that you have stated in this argument.
You can't prove an opinion

If your opinion is based on facts than you should not have a hard time proving your sentiments. I will agree that it's hard to prove bull shit.


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leanlifter1
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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 01:59 AM Reply

At 2/14/13 01:38 AM, theburningliberal wrote:
At 2/13/13 09:52 PM, MOSFET wrote:
But if paying your employees a living wage is bad, How do places like Costco keep their prices low? They have a starting wage of $12.00/hr
It's not just CostCo... Many employers are now starting new hires off at hourly rates that exceed minimum wage standards, either state or federal.

I remember LemonCrush ranting about how it will kill jobs... What I'd like to know is how exactly it kills jobs when an increase to 9$ an hour roughly puts federal minimum wage law on par with current industry standards?

I mean... when I first started working for Red Lobster in the dishring, I was making 8.50$ an hour, and was over 9$ within a year. That was in 2008. I know a lot of retail outlets are also moving to pay new hires at a higher pay rate - ranging from 8-10$/hour, depending on the store. I really don't see any issues with this.

You should be getting payed more than a new hire based on your experience as it's not right that you had to put in a year and not be compensated for it because Government decided to inflate the economy and devalue the currency even more. Aside from that the problem with just giving employees more money without raising the value of the employee by way of increased training, experience and in turn worth is the fact that the economy as a whole "think Nation wide" gets flooded with a whole hell of allot more money however the production did not rise therefore creating and economic imbalance and driving up price. In a properly functioning economy the only way to justify giving someone more money is if the person receiving the money did something for it enter another reason why monetary economics is failing because to many people are not worth enough for the amount of money they get paid and the amount of credit the banks issue to them.


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LemonCrush
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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 02:05 AM Reply

At 2/14/13 01:38 AM, theburningliberal wrote: I remember LemonCrush ranting about how it will kill jobs... What I'd like to know is how exactly it kills jobs when an increase to 9$ an hour roughly puts federal minimum wage law on par with current industry standards?

Well, it won't kill jobs as much as it will just keep unemployement the same.

Because it drives prices of good and services up. The number one expenditure of running a business, is labor. When you're shoveling all of your revenue into labor, you don't buy more materials. You don't buy more storefront for your business. You stay stagnant. And when you're stagnant, you're losing money. You lose money, you lay off, or cut quality. Either way you lose business, and may go under.

I mean... when I first started working for Red Lobster in the dishring, I was making 8.50$ an hour, and was over 9$ within a year. That was in 2008. I know a lot of retail outlets are also moving to pay new hires at a higher pay rate - ranging from 8-10$/hour, depending on the store. I really don't see any issues with this.

They're paying you that because that is what you're worth to them. That is the value of your labor.

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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 02:24 AM Reply

At 2/14/13 02:05 AM, LemonCrush wrote: Because it drives prices of good and services up. The number one expenditure of running a business, is labor. When you're shoveling all of your revenue into labor, you don't buy more materials. You don't buy more storefront for your business. You stay stagnant. And when you're stagnant, you're losing money. You lose money, you lay off, or cut quality. Either way you lose business, and may go under.

Unless of course there was regulation pertaining to price gauging and assistance in establishing private union(s) that can protect employee rights. Wages have been stagnant while costs, production, and profits have increased for over a decade. It only makes sense for wages to increase and catch up to the rest of the world (ex: $10-11 here in Canada).

leanlifter1
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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 02:37 AM Reply

At 2/14/13 02:05 AM, LemonCrush wrote:
At 2/14/13 01:38 AM, theburningliberal wrote: I remember LemonCrush ranting about how it will kill jobs... What I'd like to know is how exactly it kills jobs when an increase to 9$ an hour roughly puts federal minimum wage law on par with current industry standards?
Well, it won't kill jobs as much as it will just keep unemployement the same.

Because it drives prices of good and services up. The number one expenditure of running a business, is labor. When you're shoveling all of your revenue into labor, you don't buy more materials. You don't buy more storefront for your business. You stay stagnant. And when you're stagnant, you're losing money. You lose money, you lay off, or cut quality. Either way you lose business, and may go under.

I do agree as the value and production of the employee must coincide with the amount of money paid and raises and bonuses received.

I mean... when I first started working for Red Lobster in the dishring, I was making 8.50$ an hour, and was over 9$ within a year. That was in 2008. I know a lot of retail outlets are also moving to pay new hires at a higher pay rate - ranging from 8-10$/hour, depending on the store. I really don't see any issues with this.
They're paying you that because that is what you're worth to them. That is the value of your labor.

I disagree as the company is paying the employee not what they are worth to the company but rather the company is paying the employee the leased amount of money that labor law will permit.


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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 02:42 AM Reply

At 2/14/13 02:24 AM, CaveStoryGrounds wrote: Unless of course there was regulation pertaining to price gauging and assistance in establishing private union(s) that can protect employee rights. Wages have been stagnant while costs, production, and profits have increased for over a decade. It only makes sense for wages to increase and catch up to the rest of the world (ex: $10-11 here in Canada).

1) The regulation, as it's been since forever, would not be equal. Too much potential for corruption there. I'd rather let employers and employees set the rules, as they're the ones participating in the transaction. A dumbass bureaucrat in DC should be able to get his smelly hands anywhere near my job or my paycheck

2) Go ahead and establish a union. Just make it an actual workers union, not a government lobby/favoritism group

3) Wages can't increase because they literally CAN'T increase. The economy is in shambles. If wages were able to increase, they would have. You can't FORCE the economy. You cannot force people to buy things. You cannot force people to give up part of their paycheck. You cannot force wages to increase. At least not with serious negative consequnces.

LemonCrush
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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 02:43 AM Reply

At 2/14/13 02:37 AM, leanlifter1 wrote: I disagree as the company is paying the employee not what they are worth to the company but rather the company is paying the employee the leased amount of money that labor law will permit.

Evidently not. He just said he's making $10/hr depending on the store.

leanlifter1
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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 03:09 AM Reply

At 2/14/13 02:43 AM, LemonCrush wrote:
At 2/14/13 02:37 AM, leanlifter1 wrote: I disagree as the company is paying the employee not what they are worth to the company but rather the company is paying the employee the leased amount of money that labor law will permit.
Evidently not. He just said he's making $10/hr depending on the store.

Actually the min wage remains the same which is whatever is "Government mandated" at any given time and employee raises are clearly payed out as per time served with the company. An employee in good standing that has put in more than one years time and is looking forward to many more years of loyal servitude is worth monumentally more than a small sum such as $10 per hr worked. Welcome to how the corporations effectively crippled the working man into a wage slave.


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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 05:57 AM Reply

The poor shouldn't get paid at all am I right? Kidding, anyways how is this a bad thing at all? Prices have gone up since the last raise in minimum wage so people are finding it harder to get by. It would be nice if we didn't even have a minimum wage but guess what? Business owners can not be trusted to act like decent human beings. Laws have to be put in place because most business owners don't seem to give a shit if their employees starve to death.


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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 06:09 AM Reply

It's kinda hilarious. Max keiser and Karl Denninger called this at the beginning of the year. Its the easiest way to hide negative GDP. Raise the min wage. He might has a well raise it to $30 an hour because the end result is the same. Lost jobs and inflation.

Price controls don't work period.

They don't work on goods, and they sure as hell don't work on labor.

I guarantee you If they abolished min wage everybody in this country would have a job as well as prices would come down.

Price fixing all these things, social programs, labor, arbitrary taxes and redistribution of wealth are the reason we are where we are

GIVE US A FREE MARKET DAMMIT

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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 10:18 AM Reply

Lemoncrush you out of all people should understand why president Obama is pushing this. How long has the minimum wage been $7.50, way too long. On top of this minimum wage has remained this low even after the 2009 bailouts, which promoted inflation further.

The $7.50 minimum wage cannot support any single individual, it's barely enough to pay for food, let alone living, insurance, and transportation expenses.

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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 11:02 AM Reply

At 2/14/13 06:09 AM, Kel-chan wrote: I guarantee you If they abolished min wage everybody in this country would have a job as well as prices would come down.

You are confusing the term "job" for "opportunity for slavery".

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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 12:01 PM Reply

At 2/14/13 05:57 AM, Cootie wrote: Business owners can not be trusted to act like decent human beings. Laws have to be put in place because most business owners don't seem to give a shit if their employees starve to death.

You're an ignorant fool

You're telling me that business owners don't want to make money, and therefore don't care about their employees?

Do you even know what running a business actually is, or do you just listen to "corporations are evil" propaganda from NBC?

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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 12:05 PM Reply

At 2/14/13 10:18 AM, Saen wrote: Lemoncrush you out of all people should understand why president Obama is pushing this. How long has the minimum wage been $7.50, way too long. On top of this minimum wage has remained this low even after the 2009 bailouts, which promoted inflation further.

The $7.50 minimum wage cannot support any single individual, it's barely enough to pay for food, let alone living, insurance, and transportation expenses.

I of all people? Why's that?

Obama is pushing this because he has no concept of how economics works. You cannot raise prices of goods on an already strained economy and expect things to be okay. This unemployment is worse than the depression right now. Raising prices on labor WILL NOT fix the situation. As usual, Obama sees only one side of an issue, which is the side that helps his agenda. He does not see the negative consequences of his actions, or if he does, he just doesn't give a fuck

There is a REASON the wages have stayed the same, and it's because the economy is stunted and won't allow it to go anywhere.

Wages, prices, etc. are set by the market, not govt. When the govt. set's prices, it ends disastrously. Or have you not been paying attention to the economy the past few years?

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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 12:07 PM Reply

At 2/14/13 11:02 AM, CaveStoryGrounds wrote: You are confusing the term "job" for "opportunity for slavery".

A job is not slavery. You're working (producing something or providing a service) in exchange for money. Doesn't sound like slavery to me....don't know many slaves who could afford an Xbox.

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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 12:09 PM Reply

At 2/14/13 10:18 AM, Saen wrote: The $7.50 minimum wage cannot support any single individual, it's barely enough to pay for food, let alone living, insurance, and transportation expenses.

Also, the reason $7.50 can't support a single individual is because the govt puts price controls on food, housing, insurance, and transportation, not to mention the money itself, in the first place.

The solution to high prices of things is not to raise prices on things.

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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 12:21 PM Reply

ITT: Lemonhead doesn't understand natural influation of prices and in which we find out he's never had to work minimum wage.

Wait, you tell me there's no inflation on common household goods? Lol right

Minimum wage might lower employment? Again, lol right.

"Our results show a minimal impact on employment. In San Francisco and Santa Fe, the large increases in the prevailing minimum wage raised wages paid in typically low-wage establishments, including fast food, retail, and small businesses. At the same time, we found no consistent impact on employment in these same sectors. The large majority of employment changes we observed were small and not statistically distinguishable from zero. Of the statistically significant changes we did see, slightly more were positive-suggesting job gains after the minimum wage-than negative."

Quite frankly at this point I don't know how it is possible to survive on minimum wage, let alone standards below that market rate. Raising would certainly increase the quality of living in the United States, that for sure.


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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 12:32 PM Reply

At 2/14/13 12:21 PM, BrianEtrius wrote: Wait, you tell me there's no inflation on common household goods? Lol right

Minimum wage might lower employment? Again, lol right.

BrianEstrus must not read because I didn't say either of those things

BrianEstrus is also not familiar with the concept of economic bubbles (and short-term economic boom that catastophically fails)

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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 12:49 PM Reply

At 2/14/13 12:07 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
At 2/14/13 11:02 AM, CaveStoryGrounds wrote: You are confusing the term "job" for "opportunity for slavery".
A job is not slavery. You're working (producing something or providing a service) in exchange for money. Doesn't sound like slavery to me....don't know many slaves who could afford an Xbox.

You're right. The children in third world countries are absolutely in love with their 10 cent a day wage. What a wonderful "job" to put in place in America.

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Response to $9 minimum wage Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 12:55 PM Reply

At 2/14/13 12:49 PM, CaveStoryGrounds wrote: You're right. The children in third world countries are absolutely in love with their 10 cent a day wage. What a wonderful "job" to put in place in America.

The fuck are you talking about? They're getting paid 10 cents an hour BY AMERICAN CORPORATIONS WHO GO AROUND THE SYSTEM (wal-mart).

FWIW, 10 cents actually buys things in 3rd world countries. Also, let's not forget the reason wages are so low in other countries is because their currency is completely worthless to begin with? Ever been to Vietnam?