So heard something about Obamacare

[unconsidered]

So let me get this right, in 2014 the government is going to require you to have Medical Insurance? If this is true, and you work provider doesn't Medicade, your going to have to pay out of your own pocket; I can't imagine how families are going to have to deal with this. And if you don't have it, the gov is going to fine you 1500 a month.

Can someone please clear this up? I have absolutely no idea.

[LemonCrush]

At 2/12/13 12:56 AM, unconsidered wrote: Can someone please clear this up? I have absolutely no idea.

There's nothing to clear up.

It's social engineering in favor of corporations. Change people and their habits by forcing them into something, meanwhile recording record profits for big corporations. Crony capitalism at it's finest.

Obama is ignorant to the struggle of the average American, and their problems and bills they already have. He's a big money, $100 haircut kind of guy, so he doesn't understand what it's like to have to provide for a family and forgoing insurance because you can't afford it. Poverty levels will skyrocket, because the people who don't already have insurance, don't have it because it's too expensive. Forcing them to pay another bill will fix nothing, but will only make them poorer.

[Ceratisa]

At 2/12/13 01:55 AM, LemonCrush wrote:

At 2/12/13 12:56 AM, unconsidered wrote: Can someone please clear this up? I have absolutely no idea.

There's nothing to clear up.

It's social engineering in favor of corporations. Change people and their habits by forcing them into something, meanwhile recording record profits for big corporations. Crony capitalism at it's finest.

Obama is ignorant to the struggle of the average American, and their problems and bills they already have. He's a big money, $100 haircut kind of guy, so he doesn't understand what it's like to have to provide for a family and forgoing insurance because you can't afford it. Poverty levels will skyrocket, because the people who don't already have insurance, don't have it because it's too expensive. Forcing them to pay another bill will fix nothing, but will only make them poorer.

But all the better right? More people on government cheese means more backing Obama's expansion of food stamps.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-cheapest-obamacare-plan-
will-be-20000-family
I can't find a new source that is denying this stuff, only ones that popped up confirming it.

[Camarohusky]

The healthcare system is crippling this country. So many Americans are forgoing regular healthcare check ups because they don;t have insurance to cover the 100-200 cost of getting looked at. This is leading to simple and easily preventable problems becoming large and expensive illnesses.

Not only does the taxpayer and every honest paying American have to cover for this, those without the insurance lose their ability to live productive and healthy lives because of the gestation of easily preventable illnesses.

The goal of mandatory health insurance is to get everyone on a health plan so that they will all get their regular healthcare needs taken care of early and not let the preventable diseases plague both themselves and the system.

Here's an example. A case of recurring heartburn costs about 200 dollars to diagnose and about 2 dollars a month (yes, seriously, only 2 dollars) to treat. What happens when chronic heartburn is not treated? The entire esophasgus can wear away resulting in tens of thousands of dollars woth of surgeries and the use of pain meds for the remainder of the person's life at a cost of over 100 dollars a month.

So lets say Johnny makes only about $20,000 a year. He makes too much for Medicaid. He thinks he's healthy and says he doesn't need health insurance because he'll never use it. Yet he has chronic heartburn. He doesn't want to drop down 200 dollars to get it checked and just gins and bears the pain. Two years later he has a hole in his esohpagus and cannt eat. He goes to the emergency room ($1,000), and they decide to perform emergency surgery ($10,000) and then after his successful surgery he has to take oxycodone just to eat ($100+/month). Because he takes oxycodone, he can no longer work. So Johnny now has a medical bill of over $10,000 AND cannot even work to pay it back. So we all eat the cost. On top of that, the type of food Johnny can now eat has been significantly reduced to softer foods that won't cause the scar in his esophagus to open.

In the end, we're all stuck paying his bill, while he can no longer even work and live a normal life. If he had gotten health insurance, even the 1500/year kind, he'd be very far ahead, and wouldn't be out of work and in the hole $10,000+.

Obamacare seeks to force people like Johnny to get health insurance so that they will feel free to go to the doctor to get their minor problems checked to ensure they don't become debilitating diseases.

On top of that, seeing as almost everyone will use the healthcare system at least once in their life, the need for health insurance exists. Allowing some people to say that they don't want health insurance is essentially giving those people a free pass to free healthcare at the cost of everyone else, while dscouraging those same freelodaers to ski[ the preventative medicine that can keep costs down.

In short, the fight over Obamacare is mainly the result of two things: complete ignorance of how the healthcare system and insurance are intertwined; and blind dislike of Obama. This is why you will never find the opponents providing a better option.

[LemonCrush]

At 2/12/13 10:26 AM, Ceratisa wrote: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-cheapest-obamacare-plan-
will-be-20000-family
I can't find a new source that is denying this stuff, only ones that popped up confirming it.

It's multi-purpose.

It keeps people complacent and stupid, which makes them easier to control. And corporations get an endless stream of infinite money/record profits, and guaranteed customers. Both of these benefit the government immensely, so it's a win win for them. A poverty stricken populace means nothing to the modern crop of demo-publicans. As long as they get corporate backing to put them in office, and the government keeps propping up the corporations, everything is dandy as far as the monarchy is concerned.

People, for whatever reason, cannot see how much of a corporatist move this on Obama's part. They somehow think that forcing people to give money to corporations is a way to keep them in check. But then again, if they voted for Obama, they probably weren't paying to much attention to the world around them in the first place.

[LemonCrush]

At 2/12/13 11:51 AM, Camarohusky wrote: The healthcare system is crippling this country. So many Americans are forgoing regular healthcare check ups because they don;t have insurance to cover the 100-200 cost of getting looked at. This is leading to simple and easily preventable problems becoming large and expensive illnesses.

So, FORCING A NEW BILL ON TOP OF THAT is going to make them suddenly afford checkups?

Hey bro, if I can't spare a couple hundred for a checkup, I'm certainly not gonna be able to afford a $500 insurace bill every month.

[LemonCrush]

At 2/12/13 11:51 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

So lets say Johnny makes only about $20,000 a year. He makes too much for Medicaid. He thinks he's healthy and says he doesn't need health insurance because he'll never use it <snip>

It's his own fault for not going to the doctor in the first place. It's no one's fault but his, no one should pick up his tab.

[Camarohusky]

At 2/12/13 12:50 PM, LemonCrush wrote: It's no one's fault but his, no one should pick up his tab.

So you're saying he shouldn't be treated?

[LemonCrush]

At 2/12/13 02:30 PM, Camarohusky wrote: So you're saying he shouldn't be treated?

Absolutely.

Considering the circumstances you laid out, a semi-well off guy who is foregoing a checkup....he deserves to not be treated outside of whatever he can afford.

He assumed the risk by not getting checked out for no reason, other than laziness. The consequences of his risk are his alone, no one elses.

Now, if we're talking about single moms, or people living below the poverty line, etc, then that's a different story.

But if we're talking about someone with no financial issues, yet makes the choice to not get checked up. 100% his fault and his choice. Not yours. Not mine. There is no reason we should be forced to foot the bill for someone who deliberately ignored their health. The fact that the government forces taxpayers to pick up the tab is what creates the problem. Johnny didn't get a check up, why? He had the money. He didn't do it, because he thought "fuck it, others will pick up the bill for me".

[morefngdbs]

At 2/12/13 02:30 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 2/12/13 12:50 PM, LemonCrush wrote: It's no one's fault but his, no one should pick up his tab.

So you're saying he shouldn't be treated?

;;;;

look at a system similar to Canada's ~;D

[Warforger]

At 2/12/13 04:30 PM, morefngdbs wrote:

look at a system similar to Canada's ~;D

Yah I was reading about the healthcare system in Denmark. It was actually really interesting, it's socialized but at the same time decentralized. The government sets policy goals and funds the system, but the bulk of the healthcare is handled by local governments in conjunction with physicians unions. It's pretty easy to see how efficient that system is, ironically it's more Federalist that the American approach despite the fact that Denmark is a unitary government. It'd be great to have that system here, but Socialized healthcare is apparently horrible so it probably won't happen in America.

[The-Great-One]

At 2/12/13 02:41 PM, LemonCrush wrote: Now, if we're talking about single moms, or people living below the poverty line, etc, then that's a different story.

But if we're talking about someone with no financial issues, yet makes the choice to not get checked up. 100% his fault and his choice. Not yours. Not mine. There is no reason we should be forced to foot the bill for someone who deliberately ignored their health. The fact that the government forces taxpayers to pick up the tab is what creates the problem. Johnny didn't get a check up, why? He had the money. He didn't do it, because he thought "fuck it, others will pick up the bill for me".

I'm sorry, but that is not the decency of humanity. We should be looking out for one another instead of ourselves or a select group of people that you feel pity for. Everybody needs help and healthcare should be granted to everyone. Now I'm not fond of the Insurance Mandate system that the Affordable Care Act brings, I prefer the Single Payer system. That way my taxes and your taxes go towards paying for each others health.

I look out for you and you look out for me, we help one another. If you're against that, then you side with your party instead of mankind.

[Ceratisa]

At 2/13/13 06:08 PM, The-Great-One wrote:

At 2/12/13 02:41 PM, LemonCrush wrote: Now, if we're talking about single moms, or people living below the poverty line, etc, then that's a different story.

But if we're talking about someone with no financial issues, yet makes the choice to not get checked up. 100% his fault and his choice. Not yours. Not mine. There is no reason we should be forced to foot the bill for someone who deliberately ignored their health. The fact that the government forces taxpayers to pick up the tab is what creates the problem. Johnny didn't get a check up, why? He had the money. He didn't do it, because he thought "fuck it, others will pick up the bill for me".

I'm sorry, but that is not the decency of humanity. We should be looking out for one another instead of ourselves or a select group of people that you feel pity for. Everybody needs help and healthcare should be granted to everyone. Now I'm not fond of the Insurance Mandate system that the Affordable Care Act brings, I prefer the Single Payer system. That way my taxes and your taxes go towards paying for each others health.

I look out for you and you look out for me, we help one another. If you're against that, then you side with your party instead of mankind.

What about the people who don't look out for anybody because they simply take from society? What about the many younger people who don't ever need health care coverage because they won't get sick? But when forced to buy it the strain it causes hurts our economy. (Consumers spend less)

[LemonCrush]

At 2/13/13 06:08 PM, The-Great-One wrote: I'm sorry, but that is not the decency of humanity. We should be looking out for one another instead of ourselves or a select group of people that you feel pity for. Everybody needs help and healthcare should be granted to everyone. Now I'm not fond of the Insurance Mandate system that the Affordable Care Act brings, I prefer the Single Payer system. That way my taxes and your taxes go towards paying for each others health.

I look out for you and you look out for me, we help one another. If you're against that, then you side with your party instead of mankind.

No, successful society is not built on "I'm gonna be a lazy shit so everyone can do everything for me".

There's nothing wrong with charity. Charity is helping those who NEED it, not those who ask for help despite sitting on their asses. Humanity is not built on charity. Humanity is built on the want/need of SELF reliance and SELF success. The computer you're typing on was not created "for humanity". It was created because Steve Jobs and Bill Gates wanted to make money.

Wanting to people to not have to rely on others, to be strong enough to support themselves, is standing with mankind. Wanting people to not need help, is standing with mankind. Wanting people to care enough about their lives to be successful, and be prosperous is standing with mankind. Wanting a society where everyone is mediocre and in need of help, is standing against humanity.

[LemonCrush]

At 2/13/13 06:11 PM, Ceratisa wrote: What about the people who don't look out for anybody because they simply take from society? What about the many younger people who don't ever need health care coverage because they won't get sick? But when forced to buy it the strain it causes hurts our economy. (Consumers spend less)

Exactly.

What big government people fail to realize is, YOU CAN'T HAVE TAKERS IF YOU DON'T GIVE IT TO THEM

There are people who on this very forum who say "this bill is important because that way, I won't have to pay for their healthcare". Thing is, the government is the one stealing their money to pay for others' healthcare in the first place.

[Camarohusky]

At 2/13/13 06:18 PM, LemonCrush wrote: There are people who on this very forum who say "this bill is important because that way, I won't have to pay for their healthcare". Thing is, the government is the one stealing their money to pay for others' healthcare in the first place.

Some of have compassion for our fellow Americans and don't want to see people dying in the street because they lacked the foresight to pay for health insurance.

[Ceratisa]

At 2/13/13 08:43 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 2/13/13 06:18 PM, LemonCrush wrote: There are people who on this very forum who say "this bill is important because that way, I won't have to pay for their healthcare". Thing is, the government is the one stealing their money to pay for others' healthcare in the first place.

Some of have compassion for our fellow Americans and don't want to see people dying in the street because they lacked the foresight to pay for health insurance.

Which has nothing to do with the individuals who openly admit they don't want to pay for it so let someone else.

[LemonCrush]

At 2/13/13 08:43 PM, Camarohusky wrote: Some of have compassion for our fellow Americans and don't want to see people dying in the street because they lacked the foresight to pay for health insurance.

Bullshit. You have compassion when you have an agenda.

You don't give a fuck about the people who will have a mandatory $500 insurance bill every month.
You don't give a fuck about struggling families having extra money taken out of their paychecks.
You don't give a fuck about the poor who's money is being stolen to subsidize a failed bank.

[KiwiSundae]

At 2/13/13 10:51 PM, LemonCrush wrote:

At 2/13/13 08:43 PM, Camarohusky wrote: Some of have compassion for our fellow Americans and don't want to see people dying in the street because they lacked the foresight to pay for health insurance.

Bullshit. You have compassion when you have an agenda.

You don't give a fuck about the people who will have a mandatory $500 insurance bill every month.
You don't give a fuck about struggling families having extra money taken out of their paychecks.
You don't give a fuck about the poor who's money is being stolen to subsidize a failed bank.

Bullshit, man. You clearly have no compassion if you're going to listen to the liars at Fox Noose if you believe Obamacare is bad.

Camarohusky cleared everything up just fine, and he said that the goal of mandatory insurance is to keep people from getting stuck with the uninsured peoples' insurance bills, which makes perfect sense.

It's to help people get the treatment they need by putting them on affordable insurance plans that cannot be denied by pre-existing conditions.

[LemonCrush]

At 2/14/13 01:06 PM, KiwiSundae wrote: Bullshit, man. You clearly have no compassion if you're going to listen to the liars at Fox Noose if you believe Obamacare is bad.

Fox News? I. Watch Fox News? Do I sound like someone who watches Fox News? Oh, oh, oh, I get it, you're one of those retards who automatically dismisses everyone who questions the president a "racist" or "republican" or "Fox News viewer".

How about you pull your head out of your ass first?

Camarohusky cleared everything up just fine, and he said that the goal of mandatory insurance is to keep people from getting stuck with the uninsured peoples' insurance bills, which makes perfect sense.

No it doesn't because IT DRIVES INSURANCE RATES UP. Good for insurance companies, bad for everyone else. How about, instead of forcing people to give money to an insurance company, we just change the law so that everyone pays their own bill (within reason of course. The elderly, single parents, etc. maybe a different case).

But no, you had to vote for Bush III and fuck everything up. Good going.

It's to help people get the treatment they need by putting them on affordable insurance plans that cannot be denied by pre-existing conditions.

That's all fine and dandy. I don't understand what covering pre-existing conditions (this is a whole nother can of worms anyway, that also shouldn't exist, but let's not go there right now), has to do with me keeping Obama's corporate buddies afloat?

[RacistBassist]

At 2/14/13 01:06 PM, KiwiSundae wrote: It's to help people get the treatment they need by putting them on affordable insurance plans that cannot be denied by pre-existing conditions.

I never understood all of this stuff about pre-existing conditions. It is completely illogical to think that forcing a group to pay for something before they interacted with the person to be a good idea. If I have prior damage done to my car, it would make sense to not have it be covered when I get insurance. The only difference is the emotional factor, which is never a good basis to do something

[TheKlown]

LOL, check out this new video from the White House. Trying to sell their failed Healthcare plan through Actors Moms. How pathetic, really. It's sad when drug addicts, athletes, and actors are suppose to be role models for our children. These idiots are the reason our government is so fucked up in my opinion. Liberal propaganda at it's worse. I love the way that even the more left leaning daily show and late night show have bashed Obamacare. That is the only reason that the morons that elected the Democrats into office have not signed up for Obamacare.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPMsZYyesRE

LOL, the comedians exposed the Democrats failed Healthcare plan. LOL, it's funny how this advertisement doesn't explain anything about Obamacare, but instead just tells you to enroll in their failed Healthcare plan. Honestly, the people that elected these Morons into office that can't spell simple words such as respect should be forced to go on Obamacare.

[TheKlown]

OMG, they deleted my comment cracking jokes on Obamacare. If they didn't want people leaving comments pointing to the fact that the Daily Show and Late Night Show have both bashed Obamacare, than why leave comments enabled? Also, who the hell is deleting comments at 5 am in the morning? Damn, the White House really does have someone employed on youtube 24/7?

[Razefan]

I thought the employer of families who can't afford it also have to pay. I might be wrong though.

[TheKlown]

At 3/15/14 12:48 PM, Razefan wrote: I thought the employer of families who can't afford it also have to pay. I might be wrong though.

They listened to my comment about disabling comments. HEHEHE, I guess they were getting too much negative feedback? I also probably would disable voting if I were them because as of the last time I checked the thumbs down were out numbering the thumbs up. Could keep people away from signing up for their so called great Healthcare plan. It's amazing they have Actors Moms, Athletes, and Actors themselves promote a Healthcare they refuse to use themselves.

[Korriken]

At 2/12/13 11:51 AM, Camarohusky wrote: The healthcare system is crippling this country. So many Americans are forgoing regular healthcare check ups because they don;t have insurance to cover the 100-200 cost of getting looked at. This is leading to simple and easily preventable problems becoming large and expensive illnesses.

the deductibles for the lower cost plans means people are STILL not going to get a $100-200 checkup because they still can't afford it. Problem is, the cost of mandated insurance is going to mean that even fewer people get looked at because the bit of money that costs is being forced out of their hands into the pockets of insurance corporations.

[Evark]

At 2/12/13 12:56 AM, unconsidered wrote: Can someone please clear this up? I have absolutely no idea.

Wow, clearly. It doesn't look like anybody in this thread appears to either!

Obamacare is based on the supposition that if he can get 6-7 million new people to sign up through these exchanges (guaranteeing the insurance companies more money), they can easily make the new laws workable that improve access to people's healthcare. The crux of that argument is enticing young people to sign up (because young people are the best for the insurance companies... low payouts and high profits as a demographic).

How do you do that? Threaten to penalize a person if they don't sign up for healthcare. But, you're a reasonable man who doesn't really want to penalize people for something like that, something that's somewhere between a personal choice and a civic responsibility. So you put penalization in the form of giving the IRS the power to withhold tax-returns of those who aren't in compliance of the laws, but you do not give the IRS the power to garnish wages for the penalty, nor do you give them the power to punish anybody in any way for not having health insurance (with the exception of withholding their tax returns in the amount owed).

At 2/13/13 10:51 PM, LemonCrush wrote: You don't give a fuck about the people who will have a mandatory $500 insurance bill every month.

Find an example. If they are struggling, they will qualify for subsidies.

You don't give a fuck about struggling families having extra money taken out of their paychecks.

They'll qualify for a subsidy and then when there are crippling medical problems, they won't go bankrupt or be forced to avoid treating the problem due to funds.

You don't give a fuck about the poor who's money is being stolen to subsidize a failed bank.

No idea what you're talking about here. This is about insurance regulations and the medical industry, neither of which have anything to do with the banking system (a whole other can of worms).

[TucoM]

How many of you Obama bum-lickers have actually signed up.....and are actually paying the premiums.

[wildfire4461]

At 4/1/14 07:46 AM, TucoM wrote: How many of you Obama bum-lickers have actually signed up.....and are actually paying the premiums.

Probably none.
They're too retarded to see it's one big pile of SHIT that is going to cause more harm than good.

[MOSFET]

At 4/1/14 09:05 AM, wildfire4461 wrote:

At 4/1/14 07:46 AM, TucoM wrote: How many of you <snip> have actually signed up.....and are actually paying the premiums.

Probably none.
They're too retarded to see it's one big pile of SHIT that is going to cause more harm than good.

I've signed up, and It's much cheaper than what I had previously with more benefits. Got a Silver plan btw. The biggest helpful thing was the exchange itself. It allows you to browse through different plans, and make informed decisions about the kind of plan you want.

Honestly it's not that much different than what was there before, except now there is more of a market.