Where does 'instrument' end..

[MilkyChocolate]

I saw this post earlier, and it got me thinking.

Can't they be original? I mean I don't think those dubstep songs are made by instruments but you allow those.

What do you guys think? Where does instrument end and computer begin?
Anything that isn't acoustic?
Anything that's in an arpeggiator?
Anything that's made with a computer?
Anything that is a preset in FL Studio?

Personally, I think that as long as the musician is playing through a physical median (be it a midi keyboard or upright bass) then it's still expressive music, and I would call the VST or sound in the computer in conjunction with the interface an 'Instrument'. I don't even hold that it's not 'real' if they use "preset" sounds.

Although I'd never use those. Eww.

[Schleif]

well, any tool or device capable of producing music is an instrument. so technically, a computer is an instrument, like any other.

[MilkyChocolate]

At 2/8/13 10:17 AM, Schleif wrote: well, any tool or device capable of producing music is an instrument. so technically, a computer is an instrument, like any other.

Perhaps I should specify a little,
A musical instrument, as in a tool of emotional expression, etc.

[Breed]

It's probably best not to go about trying to define such a thing.....because everything can be turned into an "instrument," and this can easily lead to a discussion of what music really is which is an extremely loose term in itself as well.

Don't try to define it, just....do it......Holy shit! Nike makes so much more sense now....

[Lachi]

At 2/8/13 10:27 AM, MilkyChocolate wrote: A musical instrument, as in a tool of emotional expression, etc.

this is just a load of bullshits, everyone has his different emotions, and if i like only a type of music or songs, then they will be emotional enough for me.

imho, everything that can express something to someone can be considered a musical tool (a stone, a whistle, a shuttle or my farts)

[MilkyChocolate]

At 2/8/13 10:32 AM, Lachi wrote: this is just a load of bullshits, everyone has his different emotions, and if i like only a type of music or songs, then they will be emotional enough for me.

I don't mean on the listeners level. I'm talking about on the artists level, style/genres are completely irrelevant.

[Lachi]

At 2/8/13 10:42 AM, MilkyChocolate wrote:

At 2/8/13 10:32 AM, Lachi wrote: this is just a load of bullshits, everyone has his different emotions, and if i like only a type of music or songs, then they will be emotional enough for me.

I don't mean on the listeners level. I'm talking about on the artists level, style/genres are completely irrelevant.

well it's about the same thing (in my opinion).
if you mean the "musical instrument", then obviously no, the computer isn't one. flute, piano, these are instruments. but if you intend "musical tool" then you can say everything is a musical tool.

well i don't know if this thing can be discussed because we still don't know what music is, why we like x and not y, etc.
i just know music is awesome

[MilkyChocolate]

At 2/8/13 10:50 AM, Lachi wrote: well it's about the same thing (in my opinion).
if you mean the "musical instrument", then obviously no, the computer isn't one. flute, piano, these are instruments. but if you intend "musical tool" then you can say everything is a musical tool.

There's your opinion, computers are not music instruments.
No need for all the vulgarity and immaturity, is there?
What about, say, a digital piano?
It's technically a computer. But is it also not an instrument? Just a tool?

[midimachine]

At 2/8/13 10:50 AM, Lachi wrote: well it's about the same thing (in my opinion).
if you mean the "musical instrument", then obviously no, the computer isn't one. flute, piano, these are instruments. but if you intend "musical tool" then you can say everything is a musical tool.

do u wanna play with my musical tool

[DavidOrr]

At 2/8/13 10:50 AM, Lachi wrote:

if you mean the "musical instrument", then obviously no, the computer isn't one. flute, piano, these are instruments. but if you intend "musical tool" then you can say everything is a musical tool.

Computers can most definitely be used as musical instruments -- they have been for several decades now (Milton Babbitt, Ligeti, etc.) I'm curious -- what is your logic behind saying they're not? If something produces sound, it can be used as an instrument.

[Lachi]

At 2/8/13 11:15 AM, DavidOrr wrote: If something produces sound, it can be used as an instrument.

that's what i said. but there are various types of instrument.

my "logic" is: a musical instrument is a PHYSICAL INSTRUMENT, then there is hybrid (digital piano?) and then just a bunch of 0 and 1 creating music (digital musical tool?)

the fact is: this makes no sense in my opinion, why do you need this separation? if you just want an opinion, mine is: everything can be used to make "music" (note the "s). but you can't compare a flute to a computer, can you?

just imo

[MilkyChocolate]

At 2/8/13 11:34 AM, Lachi wrote: my "logic" is: a musical instrument is a PHYSICAL INSTRUMENT

Okay, I get what you're saying. If it uses physics to create the sound?

the fact is: this makes no sense in my opinion, why do you need this separation? if you just want an opinion, mine is: everything can be used to make "music" (note the "s). but you can't compare a flute to a computer, can you?

I actually disagree with you here.
Do you think that an analog synthesizer is a computer?
I actually prefer the pure square/sine wave of an oscillator to the breathy sound of a flute.

We don't need this separation, it's only a question of opinion. No one is going to say "Oh, these are not instruments, and they are now not valid for making music."

[Lachi]

ok, my opinion is that computers can be called instruments, but they are not "musical instruments" like a flute. then there are synthetizers, computers and daws, digital instruments, etc. the musical instruments are the real musical instruments, ethnic like the koto or the sitar, classic like viola or piano, etc.

stawp now

[MilkyChocolate]

At 2/8/13 11:46 AM, Lachi wrote: stawp now

Thank you for your opinion.
No I will not "stawp now"

The question is still open.

[Breed]

What advantage will defining these words provide? Why the fuck should anyone care?

[MilkyChocolate]

At 2/8/13 12:02 PM, Breed wrote: What advantage will defining these words provide? Why the fuck should anyone care?

I'm only asking you for your opinion. If you don't care, move along.

[Buoy]

What is the point of this discussion except semantics?

[Lachi]

At 2/8/13 12:37 PM, Buoy wrote: What is the point of this discussion except semantics?

lol +1, with buoy you can't go wrong.

[MetalRenard]

At 2/8/13 12:39 PM, Lachi wrote:

At 2/8/13 12:37 PM, Buoy wrote: What is the point of this discussion except semantics?

lol +1, with buoy you can't go wrong.

+1

[Numi]

Personally, I see computers as instruments. Thing is, literally anything can be turned into an instrument. I have a Kontakt Library I bought that's a bunch of imbibaphones sampled in various ways. Btw, an imbibaphone is a wine glass with liquid in it. Most people would probably argue cups aren't instruments, but I have a full track out that says otherwise.

Legitimately anything could be called an instrument (or made into one).

[MilkyChocolate]

At 2/8/13 12:53 PM, Numi wrote: Legitimately anything could be called an instrument (or made into one).

I agree with you. :3
I'm currently making a sampled library out of ordinary objects (pots, pans, etc.)

[MetalRenard]

At 2/8/13 12:54 PM, MilkyChocolate wrote: I'm currently making a sampled library out of ordinary objects (pots, pans, etc.)

Cool!

[Tydusis]

Well, if you just consider electronic music, the instrument technically ends after you stop directly controlling the waveform oscillation. So, technically everything after delays and reverb is not part of the instrument (unless you are using phasers and flangers to primarily manipulate the sound, which can make music if used a certain way).

[Akle]

Well, I think that in the eyes of the musician or artist any thing is an instrument, it is not the tools one uses but it really is how you use it and how effectively it is used.

There are loads of paintings that people say "even a 5 year old can do that!!", maybe, but with what makes it powerful is that with that technique, the desired emotions were conveyed.

It does not make a difference if something is considered to be an official instrument or tool as long as it is effective why not?

[Lachi]

At 2/8/13 02:12 PM, Tydusis wrote: Well, if you just consider electronic music, the instrument technically ends after you stop directly controlling the waveform oscillation. So, technically everything after delays and reverb is not part of the instrument (unless you are using phasers and flangers to primarily manipulate the sound, which can make music if used a certain way).

Never laughed so hard, srsly.
And thanks to Akle that said it perfectly:
:It does not make a difference if something is considered to be an official instrument or tool as long as it is effective why not?
^ ^

[MilkyChocolate]

At 2/8/13 02:13 PM, Akle wrote: Things.

This. I like this.

[Braiton]

"A musical instrument is a device created or adapted to musical sounds. In principle, any object that produces sound can be a musical instrument-it is through purpose that the object becomes a musical instrument."

Wikipedia is always right. Always.

[Tydusis]

At 2/8/13 03:41 PM, Braiton wrote: "A musical instrument is a device created or adapted to musical sounds. In principle, any object that produces sound can be a musical instrument-it is through purpose that the object becomes a musical instrument."

Wikipedia is always right. Always.

So, in principle, I could fart in to my microphone, chop up the sample a ton, process the crap out of it, make chiptune-like music out it, and that would make my butt a wind instrument?

I love how arbitrary art is. Not a sarcastic comment.

[CidiousClef]

At 2/8/13 12:02 PM, Breed wrote: What advantage will defining these words provide? Why the fuck should anyone care?

Its useful for classification. Sorta. It makes for a good debate too, I suppose.

Personally, as long as you use it to make music, its a musical instrument. Whether its more or less expressive depends on the instrument itself, but doesn't change the fact that it is a musical instrument.

[Akle]

At 2/8/13 04:08 PM, Tydusis wrote:

So, in principle, I could fart in to my microphone, chop up the sample a ton, process the crap out of it, make chiptune-like music out it, and that would make my butt a wind instrument?

Yes, you can, but i suggest you equip the microphone with a shock mount and pop filter for optimal and crisp flatulent sound.