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while formal education to after a certain point isn't unnecessary, i do believe that the pursuit of knowledge is a wondrous thing

In my opinion , the only reason a secondary school education and college exists is to produce a scientist , (For example no-one has found the cure to cancer , Researching better sources of renewable energy etc.) Basically out of all the children in schools worldwide atleast one person will be some sort of scientific prodigy with alot of potential.

Yeah but learning stuff by yourself is difficult if you don't have a teacher. It takes 10x as long because you have to figure out what you are even trying to learn as you go along.

Once school stops telling you things you need to know and starts teaching you for exams its not 100% necessary, but it is good for getting a job.

If you want to be a doctor, lawyer, high-end engineer and whatever career that needs specific and highly detailed skills, then post-secondary education is a big requirement. As for construction, landscaping or many blue-collar work in general do not need very much education beyond a high school degree/GED, or even less in certain situations.

Beyond high school, {unless your aiming to be a doctor, lawyer or what have you} any type of education is simply a bonus to you knowledge wise, but often times you end up paying for it in terms of money, and if you major in a pointless subject that you hate or never going to use, then it's a gigantic waste of money. What the professor said isn't right or wrong per se, it simply depends on the career the person wants to have, among other things.

I think the biggest problem with the education system, at least where I grew up, is that there is a large focus on fact memorization, and then regurgitating that information on a test. There is little emphasis on actual problem solving or critical thinking.

It sounds like his argument isn't that people don't need to learn beyond a 7th grade level, it's that they don't need institutions to teach them. He's implying all the material that would be taught is freely available, and motivated individual could teach themselves.

Invalid the second anything vaguely practical comes into play. Yes, in theory I could have taught myself the contents of my degree from text books and the internet, but I don't have a supercomputer to run molecular dynamics simulations or access to radioactive material, lasers, high powered magnets or any of the dozens of other laboratory equipment I've been free to use throughout university.

Also invalid in practice, because the vast, vast majority of people are unable to learn just from reading texts. They need to work through problems, have the minutia of derivations explained by an expert, or work with peers to gain an understanding of material.

I think that the actual purpose behind any sort of advanced education in high school is not that you could use that education for immediate practical purposes (although any level of English should always come into play), rather it is used as extensive mental exercises to train the brain into processing and memorizing information more efficiently.

Take mathematics for example. Many people argue that mathematics beyond the simple algebra is ultimately useless if one does not plan on pursuing a career that involves heavy math and calculus content. However, they don't realize that these advanced forms of mathematics are really only there to train the mind to think more rationally. Many problems which people encounter involve heavy critical thinking and memorization, both skills that are extremely useful in later life. Anything beyond algebra forces you to think in terms of multiple steps not necessarily so that you will perform engineering work but so your mind is prepared for more non-math related challenges in life. It's like playing with a Rubik's cube or doing Sudoku worksheets; both are practically useless for immediate applications but both teach you to think harder and process ideas quicker. Now there are some flaws in the mathematics educational system (such as heavy emphasis on just memorization and not applications used in life) but all-in-all it does its job to challenge students.

But let's not look at just math, we should also consider some other courses, like Foreign Languages.

You could also make the argument that realistically, you will hardly ever need Foreign Language in your life (assuming you're not planning to reside in a foreign country for an extended period of time). If you took the time to travel, you will see that in places like Mexico, France, and other countries which have a Foreign Language course, you will find that there are translators everywhere and all sorts of translating devices which basically eliminate the need to learn an entire foreign language.

But see, learning a language to speak it is only one of its practical applications. You need to think outside of the box and think of this education as an opportunity to, again, train your mind into thinking much more quicker. Amazingly enough, learning other languages actually improves the fluency in your own language. Not only that, the constant exercise in word logic and memorization only serve to challenge your mind, firing up your neurons into forming more electrical connections.

I could go on with every other course that exists in the standard educational system but the vitality is of the utmost importance. You cannot just go and say that "Oh look I won't ever need this information in my life". You are probably right in asserting that, but that's not the point. The point is that you gain an overall, general, and brief understanding about every area of academic/non-academic study and apply that knowledge indirectly into your life.

At 1/31/13 01:01 PM, Travis wrote:
We all know that a large portion of society is stupid, so is the education after 7th grade really not necessary or is it just not working or is it a motivation issue?

Most of all students are passed through the school system whether or not they have any understanding of the subject material of the class. THAT is one of the failures of at least America's school systems.

Geometry, statistics, American and European history, psychology, biology, chemistry, physics, language and literature, and art are all subjects that add to a student's understanding of basic worldly processes, concepts, and events. That's why most of all of these are required in all American high schools. These are in fact all vital to a basic understanding of the world.

I disagree. If everyone had a 7th or 8th grade education our logic and brain capacity would be completely fucked up and our countries would be stupid as shit. There's a lot you learn throughout high school, you just don't know it.

I do agree that if you aren't planning to learn a highly skilled job then going to most of high school isn't really that big of a deal. But without that diploma or a GED nobody is going to want to hire you, and if they do you damn sure won't ever move up in the latter.

if one knows dr.pepper, they know everything. if one has dr.pepper in their heart, they can do anything

Would you let a self taught surgeon operate on your skull?

I've known people who were illiterate and couldn't write their own name.

One of them was a cattle baron of sorts. He could go down the road and make thousands appraising cattle (buy, sell, trade), his wife was literate, though.

At 1/31/13 01:01 PM, Travis wrote: The professor brought up a point that the friend loathed, but I thought was interesting. According to this professor, any education after the 7th grade is unnecessary. The professor also argued that everything learned afterwards can be done at home on our own, so education ceases being necessary.

it is possible. there are plenty of e-books out there and there are also tons of reference materials in public libraries. in fact, it is what i am doing (string theory and such). but you have to do exercises in order to fully understand the materials.

and yes, anything beyond junior secondary level is unnecessary in the real life if your job does not require specific skills or knowledge. even if you work in banks, in terms of the math required, you need only simple math (addition, subtraction, division, mulitplication).

instead, experiences, communication skills, personal skills, and things that cannot be really learnt directly from traditional secdonary school education matters more.

13 year olds and 14 year olds don't have the type of self discipline to properly educate themselves. That's why we have highschools. If kids matured faster mentally, highschool wouldn't really be necessary, as they could just teach themselves and learn in the path they find best for them. However, and quite sadly, less and less kids want to become writers, philosophers, scientists, chemists, IT professionals, or other intellectual professionals that could really help the world for the better. Every kid wants to be a rapper, astronaut, musician, athlete, etc. They don't understand the importance of bettering the world and taking on professions that will improve and advance mankind and not just themselves. I'm 14 myself. Would I like to drop out of highschool and educate myself in a more logical path suited for me? Yes, but society would not allow that because of the majority of children my age. Instead, I have to take frivolous courses such as gym and wood shop. That makes perfect sense, instead of teaching me about something I seriously want to do later in life, I have to spend an hour and a half passing a ball back and forth and putting nails in wood. I think instead of courses like the two aforementioned, it would be great if I could have an independent studies class where I could learn about what I want to do later in life and study on it. That wouldn't actually be a waste of my time, and would probably get me more interested in school and look forward to it more.

honestly i wish school would work more like this

you go through school till 5th grade then you can start branching out and it would be like scouts so if you accomplish enough you could do more advance stuff and the kids that need help could catch up and then you could branch out to other stuff that counts up to a group so you can get jobs towards that subject easier

oh and yah make science more lab oriented actually like actual testing

I think you can survive without it if you eat, drink and be all around safe.

Why are you at your university if all education after the 7th grade is unnecessary?

I immediately disagreed but then after giving it some thought, I think he's right. It is mostly frivolous extra knowledge that isn't vital to our lives to know. You learn some pretty cool stuff but unless it applies to your future job, its extra stuff.

Though I think it's great to learn more than what you need to just get by. And I think continuing to have classes is extremely beneficial. It gives you responsibility to have to be somewhere at a certain time and have assignments completed by a certain date. It trains you to have good work ethic and to be reliable.

"Whew, good thing I Googled hydrogen-peroxide or this could be really dangerous!"

Fuck school!

past 7th grade

At 1/31/13 11:24 PM, EmmaVolt wrote: "Whew, good thing I Googled hydrogen-peroxide or this could be really dangerous!"

Fuck school!

past 7th grade

I knew what hydrogen-peroxide was when I was in the 3rd grade

At 1/31/13 11:25 PM, Xenomit wrote:

At 1/31/13 11:24 PM, EmmaVolt wrote: "Whew, good thing I Googled hydrogen-peroxide or this could be really dangerous!"

Fuck school!

past 7th grade

I knew what hydrogen-peroxide was when I was in the 3rd grade

Omg you're so smart <3

At 1/31/13 11:27 PM, EmmaVolt wrote: Omg you're so smart <3

No, it's just basic chemistry

It's not hard in the least

At 1/31/13 11:31 PM, Xenomit wrote:

At 1/31/13 11:27 PM, EmmaVolt wrote: Omg you're so smart <3

No, it's just basic chemistry

It's not hard in the least

Aww no need to be modest <3

Education is important, but it's really not working the way it is right now. Just more homework/more years in school isn't enough to fix the problem; school needs to actually teach kids practical information and critical thinking, and it should probably be a lot less industrialized and a lot more individualized than it is now, too.

In my opinion, education is the most important issue in any country because once people stop being dumbfucks they'll start to see what the other problems in the world are, too. Of course, there are plenty of people with advanced degrees who couldn't think critically to save their lives.