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Bipartisan Immigration Reform

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JRob
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Bipartisan Immigration Reform 2013-01-29 19:47:35 Reply

http://m.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-embraces-pr inciples-of-senate-immigration-reform-plan/2013/01/28/a539c4 4a-6974-11e2-ada3-d86a4806d5ee_story.html

So, long story short - eight senators (four Republicans and four Democrats) come together to discuss and draft up a basis for a moderate approach on immigration reform that satisfies the demands of both sides of the issue. Personally, coming from my center-right view of things, the goals set forth in this plan sound hard to disagree with - I completely support this plan...but guess who has already stuck his dick in a perfectly fine bipartisan agreement and is trying to take control of and put his name on it - trying to skip past securing the border and go straight for immediate amnesty of illegal immigrants. Yup, Obama. And then on the other hand you have people like Krauthammer who claim (seriously dude, you're not really being helpful here) that granting citizenship would cost more than what it's worth in benefits. I personally feel that securing the border and working on giving citizenship status to the immigrants should be carried out somewhat simultaneously.

So, is it worth whatever economic implications it may or may not bring? Does the plan delay granting citizenship more than it should? Discuss.


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Ceratisa
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Response to Bipartisan Immigration Reform 2013-01-29 20:36:32 Reply

I find it interesting that the graph makes the very serious difference between convicted criminals and "Non-criminal" Illegals.
I mean the only seperation here isn't who is or isn't breaking the law. (They all are) It is who is convicted.

It is far too broad to even judge, but even mentioning limiting "racial profiling" which is entirely valid given the situation.

I don't like the tiny distinctions made between serious crimes. If tax evasion was good enough for Al Capone, why don't we treat their back taxes more seriously by adding serious fines for never paying into the system. California basically went bankrupt because of this crap.

There is some good stuff about not allowing employers to hire immigrants over Americans, but ultimately who decides that they "couldn't find an American to hire." Is this going to be one of the kinds of things where a job opens up and they just don't advertise that, so no one knows?

It places too much emphasis on the honor system, I can't find a line that states
"Immigrants found in the US illegally who refused to registered shall be stripped of any path to citizenship"
(If it exists please correct me, what good is new law that isn't harshly enforced but makes it easier for citizenship regardless.)

Good job separating the agricultural and other workers though.

The boarder guard crap, well I have a hard time believing it.

SadisticMonkey
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Response to Bipartisan Immigration Reform 2013-01-30 08:19:28 Reply

Those 4 republicans are helping secure every election for the democrats for the next few centuries.

Bye bye america.


At 8/16/14 11:58 PM, Feoric wrote:
Remember: he was shot in the back 35 feet away from the police cruiser. That's not up for debate.

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Tony-DarkGrave
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Response to Bipartisan Immigration Reform 2013-01-30 08:22:13 Reply

nope on for it to many loopholes or things that can be exploited.

Camarohusky
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Response to Bipartisan Immigration Reform 2013-01-30 12:27:13 Reply

The problem with securing the border is that it's largely a waste of money.

You look at the most secure parts of the border, and guess what? People are STILL crossing there. The pure amount of resources it would take to sht down the land crossings completely would make the net cost for all of the current illegals (75-80% of whom pay full Fed and State taxes) pale in comparison.

Alabama showed us that mass deportations does little more thn hurt the economy.

Frankly, it appears that there is no win here. Either spend horrific amounts of money in order to stop spending terrible amounts (less than horrific), deport the illegals crippling the argiculture and attendant parts of the economy whilst driving food prices through the roof, or deal with the costs of the current and future illegals.

LemonCrush
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Response to Bipartisan Immigration Reform 2013-01-30 13:22:45 Reply

Crippling penalties for companies that hire illegal immigrants. And mass deportations.

Ceratisa
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Response to Bipartisan Immigration Reform 2013-01-30 13:58:07 Reply

At 1/30/13 01:22 PM, LemonCrush wrote: Crippling penalties for companies that hire illegal immigrants. And mass deportations.

It seems to me personally a lot of this is written in a way to make that "road" to citizen ship more of a shortcut.

Camarohusky
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Response to Bipartisan Immigration Reform 2013-01-30 15:29:49 Reply

At 1/30/13 01:58 PM, Ceratisa wrote: It seems to me personally a lot of this is written in a way to make that "road" to citizen ship a reality instead of a mere dream for most.

[fixed]

Ceratisa
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Response to Bipartisan Immigration Reform 2013-01-30 15:37:05 Reply

At 1/30/13 03:29 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 1/30/13 01:58 PM, Ceratisa wrote: It seems to me personally a lot of this is written in a way to make that "road" to citizen ship a reality instead of a mere dream for most.
[fixed]

I like how you know almost nothing about this but the very broad language and no legitimate enforcement issues being addressed.
I read it over and I mentioned specific things about it. You just seemed to go the low road and take a cheap shot. I'm disappointed man..

Camarohusky
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Response to Bipartisan Immigration Reform 2013-01-30 16:06:12 Reply

At 1/30/13 03:37 PM, Ceratisa wrote: I read it over and I mentioned specific things about it.

Like? Oh wait, you didn't!

You think that ANY road to citizenship is a shortcut. If you had even listened to the President's plan, he said it wold put them in the back of the line for citizenship. Yep, the back of the line is surely a shortcut. His plan is taking the smart way out of the mess by integrating them so they can be taxed ad made money off of, instead of hiding in the shadows avoiding the taxes for fear of deportation (the main reason they leech at all). As of right now, there is NO possibility for most illegals to become citizens. Giving them a possibility is not the same as a shortcut.

theburningliberal
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Response to Bipartisan Immigration Reform 2013-01-30 17:02:04 Reply

At 1/29/13 07:47 PM, theJRob wrote: http://m.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-embraces-pr inciples-of-senate-immigration-reform-plan/2013/01/28/a539c4 4a-6974-11e2-ada3-d86a4806d5ee_story.html

So, long story short - eight senators (four Republicans and four Democrats) come together to discuss and draft up a basis for a moderate approach on immigration reform that satisfies the demands of both sides of the issue. Personally, coming from my center-right view of things, the goals set forth in this plan sound hard to disagree with - I completely support this plan...

This is a good thing. Bipartisan consensus usually leads to good policy.

but guess who has already stuck his dick in a perfectly fine bipartisan agreement

Any of these guys?
Rep. Lamar Smith
Sen. Jeff Sessions
Sen. David Vitter
Sen. Mike Lee

and is trying to take control of and put his name on it - trying to skip past securing the border and go straight for immediate amnesty of illegal immigrants. Yup, Obama.

Oh, I see, so the fact that the President has been pushing immigration reform for the last 4 years means nothing. Now that we have bipartisan consensus, it is suddenly a victory for Republicans, even while members of the Republican caucus in the House and Senate are still opposing it?

As far as "trying to skip past securing the border," see the attached image at the bottom of this post. What is the first major point listed? And what office is sponsoring the message presented on the image? Now, tell me, how is Obama trying to skip past securing the border? More importantly, why can't we do both at once?

Moreover, while specific statutory details on both the Obama plan and Senate plan are unclear at this point, both plans include the idea of a pathway to citizenship. In his speech in Vegas, Obama mentioned passing a background check paying taxes, paying a penalty, learning english and then waiting in line for a green card as part of the pathway to citizenship, so the idea that Obama wants immediate amnesty is bullshit.

And then on the other hand you have people like Krauthammer who claim (seriously dude, you're not really being helpful here)

Has he ever been?

that granting citizenship would cost more than what it's worth in benefits. I personally feel that securing the border and working on giving citizenship status to the immigrants should be carried out somewhat simultaneously.

Agreed.

So, is it worth whatever economic implications it may or may not bring? Does the plan delay granting citizenship more than it should? Discuss.

One of the biggest economic implications is trying to bring foreign entrepreneurs to America to create jobs here. Unfortunately, I don't know of any studies that look at the economic impact of a plan similar to the Presidents, but I do know that many of the immigrants I know (and I know a few) are very interested in making their own way, rather than having it paved for them. In many cases, there are a lot fewer procedural hurdles to jump here in the US than in Mexico, not to mention the US economic system is substantially better suited for investments than some of our neighbors.

And I think the delay Obama proposes make sense. Secure the border, and while we are doing that, let's focus on what to do with the illegal immigrants already here. We have the DHS / INS for a reason, it's time to use it. The Republican idea of secure the border first, then we can do this other stuff strikes me as the same kind of brinksmanship they played over the debt ceiling (a la 2011) and fiscal cliff. In other words, they want their way first, and if nothing else gets accomplished, oh well.

Bipartisan Immigration Reform

Memorize
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Response to Bipartisan Immigration Reform 2013-01-30 17:59:50 Reply

At 1/30/13 05:02 PM, theburningliberal wrote:
This is a good thing. Bipartisan consensus usually leads to good policy.

That certainly explains:

-CRA
-Patriot Act
-Drug War
-Bank/Auto bailout
-Iraq
-Afghanistan
-Drone Strikes
-Secret Kill list

As far as "trying to skip past securing the border," see the attached image at the bottom of this post. What is the first major point listed? And what office is sponsoring the message presented on the image? Now, tell me, how is Obama trying to skip past securing the border? More importantly, why can't we do both at once?

He's been deporting more people than Bush.

Not that you liberals would ever call Obama on that.

DickChick
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Response to Bipartisan Immigration Reform 2013-01-30 18:12:00 Reply

At 1/30/13 05:59 PM, Memorize wrote: He's been deporting more people than Bush.

Not that you liberals would ever call Obama on that.

Wow, way to completely skip over his point so that you can spout some partisan bullshit.


Just a chick with a dick.

theburningliberal
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Response to Bipartisan Immigration Reform 2013-01-30 22:13:39 Reply

At 1/30/13 06:12 PM, DickChick wrote:
At 1/30/13 05:59 PM, Memorize wrote: He's been deporting more people than Bush.

Not that you liberals would ever call Obama on that.
Wow, way to completely skip over his point so that you can spout some partisan bullshit.

We're used to that. I (and I think most of NG Politics) just ignore Memorize. According to him, I'm a liberal hack hell-bent on installing Obama as the leader of the Fourth Reich or some damn thing, I don't know.

But I did find this picture of him on Facebook.

Bipartisan Immigration Reform

Ceratisa
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Response to Bipartisan Immigration Reform 2013-01-30 23:08:48 Reply

At 1/30/13 04:06 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 1/30/13 03:37 PM, Ceratisa wrote: I read it over and I mentioned specific things about it.
Like? Oh wait, you didn't!

I like how you think, that people who don't pay taxes would eagerly pay taxes when they don't need to. I mean people do that right?

Eligibility Requirements
If you are a green card holder of at least 5 years, you must meet the following requirements in order to apply for naturalization:

Be 18 or older at the time of filing
Be a green card holder for at least 5 years immediately preceding the date of filing the Form N-400, Application for Naturalization
Have lived within the state, or USCIS district with jurisdiction over the applicantâEUTMs place of residence, for at least 3 months prior to the date of filing the application
Have continuous residence in the United States as a green card holder for at least 5 years immediately preceding the date of the filing the application
Be physically present in the United States for at least 30 months out of the 5 years immediately preceding the date of filing the application
Reside continuously within the United States from the date of application for naturalization up to the time of naturalization
Be able to read, write, and speak English and have knowledge and an understanding of U.S. history and government (civics).
Be a person of good moral character, attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States, and well disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States during all relevant periods under the law

Oh no, the standards are so harsh.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b 9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=80f63a4107083210VgnVCM100000 082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=80f63a4107083210VgnVCM100000082ca 60aRCRD

Getting a green card, how impossible.

Let's face it they send money back home and don't pay taxes, they use emergency services and their children attend public school. All of this without paying taxes.

But lets be honest, the most difficult part about becoming a citizen is paying for the work visa. After that if they keep to their word, and the illegals here go to the back of the line. Citizenship remains further away then ever for them.

Stop talking shit, I addressed issues in the first response. Of all the people I tend to disagree with consistently, I honestly expect a little bit better from you. You at least try to be rational or reasonable from your own view point.