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just being completely honest here..

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orangebomb
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Response to just being completely honest here.. Feb. 1st, 2013 @ 10:50 PM Reply

At 2/1/13 09:21 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote:
At 2/1/13 07:38 PM, orangebomb wrote:
Believing human nature is inherently violent and selfish and putting other humans (who share these traits) in positions of power over other humans is the ideal solution is insanity.

Not really, most humans want to be the top dog in anything they aspire to do, and some are more than willing to stab each other in the back to get what they want. History has told us that the human nature tend to use violence as an effective tool to get whatever they want, and without the rule of law or something to keep them in check, they can do what they please without a care, and much of the time, they did just that.

Plus, there is an issue when dealing with the racist/bigoted groups of people out there, and it's hard to have a peaceful state of anarchy when everyone is not on the same page, and with no law and order, bad things can only happen given the chance.

I said it before and I'll say it again, all men are not created equal in terms of ability, lifestyle and what have you, and in a lot of cases, humanity can't always work together because of those differences.
Indeed, not everyone is created equal, but what does that have to do with putting to use different skills people have to make society function? The differences that disable people from working together are often ridiculously superficial, and people need to quite frankly get over them.

Groups of people can work together, regardless of whether there is a government or not, but a few bad apples can easily ruin it for everyone, especially when there is either no fear of administrative punishment because there is no government to apply it, or it's the extreme of an overzealous vigilante person or group that dishes out their brand of justice, which never ends well.

I'm not saying that this would happen all the time in an anarchical state, but there is little, if anything to stop such a behavior from happening and spreading.

Anarchy =/= chaos without rules or order. This is a ridiculous misconception perpetuated by Hollywood clinging to caricatures of angry teenagers in black attire hurling molotov cocktails. The fact that you brought up Mad Max just cements this. The state does not have a monopoly on law and order.

Truth be told, my example might be an extreme case, but where is all of the law and order going to come from while keeping the anarchist view intact? As I said before, vigilante groups will most likely fill the void, and depending on said group, they can be as violent and malicious as the criminals themselves, {if not more so} and there would be no one to put a check on them without some sort of rules.

Anarchy is nothing more than Fascism/Darwinism, just without any government or rule of law.
False.

Anarchism is a pretty ripe enviroment for this kind of belief, especially when everything goes to shit, which it most likely will. When there is no "Big Brother" to keep people for going after each other for the pettiest of reasons on the streets, who knows how bad it can get given the chance?

I use the term Big Brother as a way to explain the security of the people, {i.e. cops, cameras, etc.} so make of it what you will.

I believe in the right to govern oneself in peaceful, voluntaryist environment free of all forms of coercion and politics.

The problem is that a lot of things are connected to politics in one way or another, such as the Sheriff's office or the schools as an example, what exactly are you going to do about all that? Plus, how can you keep leaders in check if there is no way to control their power without a system of checks and balances without resorting to a government system?

That's the problem with total freedom, when you let everyone do what they please, you just know that something bad is going to happen, and there is either nothing we can do about it, or vigilantism will be everywhere, and we're right back to square 1.


Just stop worrying, and love the bomb.

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svenisgod
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Response to just being completely honest here.. Feb. 1st, 2013 @ 11:27 PM Reply

You guys are confusing terms.
Absence of law and order is not anarchism. It is anomy.
Anarchism is a political system based off consent not coercion.
Laws within anarchist communities are based off direct democracy. They have laws, funny to think of because all you hear about anarchy is a sort of mad Max world where the strongest get whatever they want.
That's exactly what anarchy has been fed to you by the media because they would rather not you think that you don't need representatives and leaders and can make decisions through mutual understanding.

Anarchy is a system of government that requires that all citizens remain incredibly clued up about the political situations that the community faces because every decision that effects the whole group must be put to a vote.
I would imagine the way it would work would be like this.
Anarchista is a little town on a river with a bridge that they exact tolls for each person that crosses it and that's how they make money.
A capitalist comes along and says hey I'll buy your bridge for five years salary that the bridge would make and I'll give you twenty percent of the earnings each year.
This is a big decision so it goes to anarchist as council. Everyone gathers and talks about whether they should or they shouldn't. A very loved and looked up to man called Dave says they should because they could buy a water mill with the money and start grinding their grain with more efficiency. Everyone looks up to Dave but they disagree with him on this point and the majority decidethey will not sell their bridge. But because Dave hasn't had his idea go through this democracy isn't consentual for him. He feels hard done by.
A compromise is reached by the group that twenty percent of the annual income of anarchist a will go towards this watermill and it won't be done immediately like it would if they sold their bridge but the community will see it dine eventually.

Anarchism relies on a few things.
A great sense of community. The people in an anarchist community must work for each other and not for themselves. Selfishness cannot exist.
For this reason all property is communal. I would imagine all food tools and houses would be communal the only things people would own would be objects of particular significance for that person (a ring from a lover, a statue given from someone to someone)
No one is allowed to be ignorant about the politics of the group. If they are their views may go unheard and then the grouping wouldn't be consentual.
All decisions are decided on by those who these actions effect.
All decisions must be consentual and if a decision cannot be made that is consentual to all a compromise must be made (like Dave and the water mill)

This is anarchism. Anarchism is about as far left as it gets. Its communism without leaders.
The opposite is anarcho-capitalism which is the right wing version. Anarcho-capitalism would be more like the world you guys are describing


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Misanthrum
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Response to just being completely honest here.. Feb. 2nd, 2013 @ 12:39 AM Reply

At 2/1/13 09:24 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote: DoxOfficial, never, ever post anything relating to Anarchism in the Politics section again. Stop shitting on those trying to help repair the image caused by people like you. YOU'RE the reason none of us are taken seriously, and YOU'RE the reason people have this negative image of real anarchists.

Honestly, from a true anarchist, go away.

why do you care so much about what others think of your "true anarchist" stance? I care about what I think and ONLY what I think. sure, I didn't know anarchy actually has laws in it ( that is sad in my eyes ), but for you to get so offended by the negativity it gets because of people like myself is beyond me. learn to hold your own perspective, and give not one fuck about anyone else.


rules aren't what keep me in abidance.

svenisgod
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Response to just being completely honest here.. Feb. 12th, 2013 @ 08:08 PM Reply

At 2/2/13 12:39 AM, DoxOfficial wrote:
At 2/1/13 09:24 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote: DoxOfficial, never, ever post anything relating to Anarchism in the Politics section again. Stop shitting on those trying to help repair the image caused by people like you. YOU'RE the reason none of us are taken seriously, and YOU'RE the reason people have this negative image of real anarchists.

Honestly, from a true anarchist, go away.
why do you care so much about what others think of your "true anarchist" stance? I care about what I think and ONLY what I think. sure, I didn't know anarchy actually has laws in it ( that is sad in my eyes ), but for you to get so offended by the negativity it gets because of people like myself is beyond me. learn to hold your own perspective, and give not one fuck about anyone else.

u

You aren't an anarchist you are just an asshole.
You havent even thought about your political school or read up about it.
The reason we get angry is because anarchism is a legitimate school of thought but people like you give it a bad name and make anarchism hard to convince people of. Your actions effect others maybe when you are older you will understand that.


derp derp derp derp derp

science-is-fun
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Response to just being completely honest here.. Feb. 12th, 2013 @ 10:05 PM Reply

As an anarchist you would need to be well informed and astute with politics and people because as it stands anarchism is highly impractical, divided and corrupted by ideologists, it needs to be amended and some character needs to popularize these new measures in order for anything remotely resembling anarchism to be achieved.

kryzyt
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Response to just being completely honest here.. Feb. 14th, 2013 @ 02:19 AM Reply

At 1/29/13 03:16 PM, DoxOfficial wrote: i am anarchist. I pay no attention government / related media. not a people person, because so many lack peace from being brainwashed in how ridiculously important money is, which is the blame for most crime and greed. I am anarchist because I know that I personally wouldn't be the one to cause harm, and I don't care what the rest of my kind would do in this position. delete all political holds on us, and see what most of humanity's pure and natural form does.

questions? thoughts? spill em out.

Money is a manifestation of human goods and services, and is almost literally 'power'. Government and money ARE humans most pure and natural form, our race started as a tribal group of (effectively) corporations who traded goods and services with other corporations. Eventually the corporation got really big and became a government. I see no reason to end it now, when the western governments are capable of feeding the vast majority of their population, and keep us at a relatively high living condition.