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New slang "Anti-Theist"

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Xombiehacker
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New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 29th, 2013 @ 12:23 AM Reply

Regaurdless of if you're atheist of not, you should still read this (it's not an argument)

I, for one, am sick and tired of being grouped together with hardcore atheists who think not only that god does not exist but that other people shouldn't believe that god exists. So, I say we, as a general population, should start defining the two groups as Atheist and Anti-Theist.

(For the record, I'm agnostic and believe not that there is no god, but that I won't decide one way or the other until given true proof one way or the other.)
(Also that people should stop judging each other based off their religions and treat each other the same even if they believe that our heads are made of cheese)


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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 29th, 2013 @ 12:36 AM Reply

Anti-theist seems too much like misotheism though


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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 29th, 2013 @ 12:37 AM Reply

(For the record, I'm agnostic and believe not that there is no god, but that I won't decide one way or the other until given true proof one way or the other.)
(Also that people should stop judging each other based off their religions and treat each other the same even if they believe that our heads are made of cheese)

*Edit- "our heads"
Sorry about that, running on autopilot.


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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 29th, 2013 @ 06:15 AM Reply

The late great Hitchens used to describe himself as an anti-theist. New slang? He first said it like five years ago.

âEUoeI am not even an atheist so much as an antitheist; I not only maintain that all religions are versions of the same untruth, but I hold that the influence of churches and the effect of religious belief, is positively harmful. Reviewing the false claims of religion I do not wish, as some sentimental materialists affect to wish, that they were true. I do not envy believers their faith. I am relieved to think that the whole story is a sinister fairy tale; life would be miserable if what the faithful affirmed was actually true.... There may be people who wish to live their lives under cradle-to-grave divine supervision, a permanent surveillance and monitoring. But I cannot imagine anything more horrible or grotesque.âEU

Ie - I don't believe in God, but even if I did, I'd hate him because he is a dick.

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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 29th, 2013 @ 06:19 AM Reply

At 1/29/13 12:23 AM, Xombiehacker wrote: (Also that people should stop judging each other based off their religions and treat each other the same even if they believe that our heads are made of cheese)

I don't 'judge people' based off their religion, or their political persuasion, or anything else. I treat everyone I speak to with respect and judge them based on how they treat me and other people. However, I still think that God did not impregnate the Virgin Mary so he could be crucified for our sins and raised from the dead (are you 'agnostic' to this possibility?) and I still think that religion is a bad thing. Just like I think American Exceptionalism is a bad thing. Even though I wouldn't 'judge' someone who believed in this.

I believe it was Luke Skywalker who said, "Judge not, lest ye be judged." Also, many centuries after Star Wars was made, someone inserted a scene in which he said, "He who is without sin cast the first stone." Even though Star Wars is fictional, these are still some pretty decent concepts.

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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 29th, 2013 @ 07:01 PM Reply

Anti-theist? You mean like Bill Maher (who's a complete dick)?


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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 29th, 2013 @ 07:31 PM Reply

At 1/29/13 12:23 AM, Xombiehacker wrote:
(For the record, I'm agnostic and believe not that there is no god, but that I won't decide one way or the other until given true proof one way or the other.)

Actually, that makes you an atheist since you don't believe in God, which is what an atheist is.
It's not even 50-50. If you had to bet 50 million dollars on whether or not he exists, you'd pick "no".

But even if it was 50-50, you'd still be an atheist, which again, is someone who does not believe in God.

alright then


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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 29th, 2013 @ 09:00 PM Reply

At 1/29/13 07:40 PM, abbiegale wrote:
Actually, that makes him an agnostic:

Agnostics are atheists.

They don't believe in god.
Atheists aren't "The people who are 100% certain there is no God". That's like nobody ever. "Agnostics" try to separate themselves from atheists because they think atheists are people who pretend to know there's no God, which they don't.

So yeah, whenever I see someone go "I'm an agnostic" I know right off the bat they probably don't know shit :D


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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 29th, 2013 @ 11:02 PM Reply

At 1/29/13 09:35 PM, abbiegale wrote: I know this might be contradictory to my earlier label comment, but I still think there's a differentiation.

Agnostic means you don't claim to have definite factual knowledge. Atheism is a lack of belief in god. You don't have to claim that you know for certain that there is no god. If you did, then you would be a gnostic atheist.


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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 30th, 2013 @ 12:37 PM Reply

At 1/30/13 11:51 AM, abbiegale wrote: if you ever came across undisputable evidence of a god's existence would you believe in him? Would you commit yourself to him? I think an agnostic probably would, an atheist wouldn't.

I think that is a foolish comment. I think any atheist would change their viewpoints immediately if presented with 'undisputable evidence'. We're not hard-headed or close-minded, despite what you might think.

What does it mean for an agnostic to not 'fully reject' religion? You can't simultaneously be 50/50 about the claim 'Jesus was the son of God, born of a virgin and resurrected after three days' and 50/50 about the claim 'Vishnu is the preserver' and 50/50 about the claim 'Ra makes the Sun move across the sky'. Do you utterly reject the claim 'Thor is the reason there is thunder'? What religious claims do you not 'fully reject', and why some and not others?

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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 30th, 2013 @ 12:42 PM Reply

At 1/29/13 09:00 PM, poxpower wrote: Atheists aren't "The people who are 100% certain there is no God". That's like nobody ever.

Then what exactly are atheists in your dogma?

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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 30th, 2013 @ 12:45 PM Reply

At 1/30/13 12:42 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 1/29/13 09:00 PM, poxpower wrote: Atheists aren't "The people who are 100% certain there is no God". That's like nobody ever.
Then what exactly are atheists in your dogma?

I know you've heard this all before, but nobody should be '100% certain' that there is no Matrix, or that they are not hallucinating this reality, or that there isn't an invisible alien living in their wallspace.

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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 30th, 2013 @ 12:49 PM Reply

At 1/30/13 12:45 PM, Earfetish wrote: I know you've heard this all before, but nobody should be '100% certain' that there is no Matrix, or that they are not hallucinating this reality, or that there isn't an invisible alien living in their wallspace.

So the fact that Atehists are 99% certain means they are actually agnostic?

RIGHT.

You do know there is a difference between not being 100% something and rejecting that thing outright.

Let's put it this way:

Theists take the stand that there is a god/gods.
Atheists take the stand, (but not wholly) that there is no god/gods.
Agnostics take the stand that we do not have enough information to take a stand at all on the subject.

See the difference here?

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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 30th, 2013 @ 12:54 PM Reply

At 1/30/13 12:49 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 1/30/13 12:45 PM, Earfetish wrote: I know you've heard this all before, but nobody should be '100% certain' that there is no Matrix, or that they are not hallucinating this reality, or that there isn't an invisible alien living in their wallspace.
So the fact that Atehists are 99% certain means they are actually agnostic?

RIGHT.

You do know there is a difference between not being 100% something and rejecting that thing outright.

Let's put it this way:

Theists take the stand that there is a god/gods.
Atheists take the stand, (but not wholly) that there is no god/gods.
Agnostics take the stand that we do not have enough information to take a stand at all on the subject.

See the difference here?

I dunno, these semantic discussions make no sense to me. Hows about this other concept?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

Ignosticism or igtheism is the theological position that every other theological position (including agnosticism and atheism) assumes too much about the concept of God and many other theological concepts.

It can be defined as encompassing two related views about the existence of God:

The view that a coherent definition of God must be presented before the question of the existence of God can be meaningfully discussed. Furthermore, if that definition is unfalsifiable, the ignostic takes the theological noncognitivist position that the question of the existence of God (per that definition) is meaningless. In this case, the concept of God is not considered meaningless; the term "God" is considered meaningless.

The second view is synonymous with theological noncognitivism, and skips the step of first asking "What is meant by 'God'?" before proclaiming the original question "Does God exist?" as meaningless.

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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 30th, 2013 @ 01:02 PM Reply

Aye and I think ignosticism should be the starting-point for these discussions anyway. When people say 'I am agnostic as to whether God exists', or 'I am atheist as to whether God exists', they must first define the God they're talking about. Agnostics could be 'atheist' about Jehovah or Vishnu, and atheists could be 'agnostic' about Matrixism.

What is this whole 'God' thing we're talking about? Did he start the universe, or does he care about us, or did he do both? You could spend hours e-arguing with someone about the existence of God, only to discover the only thing they're 'agnostic' about is the concept that 'a being might have started the universe'. Like Isaac Asimov's short story The Last Question.

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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 30th, 2013 @ 03:28 PM Reply

At 1/30/13 12:54 PM, Earfetish wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

Oh man this is stupid haha.
100% of all this confusion comes strictly from soft-brained atheists without a clue and professional religious debaters who's only chance at winning a debate is to confuse morons.

These damn atheist minus ultra-PC people who think they're being clever because they figured out philosophy 101 concepts like the Matrix or a Dream world. OH WHAT IS REALITY? WHO CAN KNOW? PERHAPS NOTHING IS TRUE, THEREFORE I AM AN AGNOSTIC.

No, no you're not. You're about as agnostic about Gods as you are about gravity or nut allergies. If you're really that open-minded, why aren't you at a Casino right now betting all your savings on fucking 21? 50/50 chance of winning, but you get 36 times your money back! Holy shit!
Wait forget this, the lottery! Or you can just dance like a monkey for 20 minutes since I have just decided that it gives you a 50/50 chance of having eternal life and superpowers.

WHAT, YOU'RE NOT OPEN-MINDED AND AGNOSTIC ABOUT THE MONKEY DANCE? WHAT?

I mean, how fucking presumptuous does a person have to be to think that NOBODY ELSE has figured out that reality could be all an illusion or that God, having infinite magic powers that defy logic, could always potentially exist on top of any reality or theory of reality?

Like, you REALLY think you're the first to figure this out and all these scientists and people with double your IQ and triple your years of education have been calling themselves "atheist" for decades without realizing this?

BLASDSAKFSDAFSpeoplewhyyoudothiswhyyyy

p.s. I am just antagonizing so it makes it harder to admit you were wrong, because it's funny to see people rationalize obvious falsehoods just to avoid looking stupid :D
p.p.s. I used to call myself "agnostic" until someone explained this to me, then, not being a dumbass, I changed my terminology.


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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 30th, 2013 @ 04:00 PM Reply

At 1/30/13 03:28 PM, poxpower wrote: p.s. I am just antagonizing so it makes it harder to admit you were wrong, because it's funny to see people rationalize obvious falsehoods just to avoid looking stupid :D
p.p.s. I used to call myself "agnostic" until someone explained this to me, then, not being a dumbass, I changed my terminology.

Yes you are being antagonizing, and yes you are being a dumbass.

YOU ARE NOT THE ARBITER OF WHAT IS SMART IN THE WORLD. Please stop acting like it. Pulling some bullshit flying spaghetti monster fallacy out of your ass is not you proving anything wrong. In fact the only thing you;re proving there is how much of a dick you are.

You merely saying "monkey dance = god" does not mean an agnostic will say "50/50". That's fucking stupid of you to even think that.

Agnostic doesn't mean believing every possibility or thing a person says could be true or not true. It merely means not taking a stand on the issue of wether or not there is a god or supernatural force.

An agnostic can believe you're full of shit with your monkey dance garbage and still not take a stand on the existence or non-existence of a god.

So seriously, get over yourself. Your logic is NOT sound like you think it is.

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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 30th, 2013 @ 04:12 PM Reply

At 1/30/13 02:01 PM, abbiegale wrote: What I see as foolish is insulting someone because they have a different opinion than you, and judging by their last post without at least taking a look at their whole contribution to the discussion. Who's "we" and who's "I"? I think, if you had bothered, it would have been clear that I don't believe in god either. Despite what you might think.

ok then, what did you mean when you said agnostics would believe if there was indisputable proof of God, but atheists would not? Atheists are presented with indisputable proof that they are incorrect but carry on believing in a falsehood?

It means that s/he doesn't exclude the possibility that one of these or something else might be true. It means not believing without tangible proof.

So Thor makes thunder, or the Sun is actually a God called Ra - would an agnostic exclude the possibility that these concepts are correct?

Pox - I don't even know what you're talking about. Ignosticism says that it is useful to define what 'God' is before discussing whether or not he exists. I missed the part in your post where you did that.

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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 30th, 2013 @ 05:19 PM Reply

At 1/30/13 04:00 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
Agnostic doesn't mean believing every possibility or thing a person says could be true or not true. It merely means not taking a stand on the issue of wether or not there is a god or supernatural force.

Yeah they do take a stand on it by not doing anything about it, thus why they are atheists.
They don't think there's a 50-50 shot. They think, as atheists do ( because again we're all the same ) that there is an impossibly remote chance and even if there is, it's a chance at something that doesn't change anything anyway.

Agnostics show their true color the second I mention things like the monkey dance, as did you. You instantly thought it was retarded, you didn't go "well I guess there's a remote possibility that it's true".

At 1/30/13 04:12 PM, Earfetish wrote:
Pox - I don't even know what you're talking about. Ignosticism says that it is useful to define what 'God' is before discussing whether or not he exists. I missed the part in your post where you did that.

That's just the same as being a skeptic really, why do we need a word JUST for gods?
I can say ghosts aren't real, except, whoops, LOOPHOLE, for me ghosts are actually slices of bread! YOINK!

No one's ever believed in Gods in any way that wouldn't demand atheism from a rational point of view. Why the need to be "Ignostic"?
Unless I'm talking to someone who can't understand english, I already know whatever their "god" is will be bullshit anyway.


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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 30th, 2013 @ 05:55 PM Reply

It amuses me to watch the atheists on this forum having this psychotic need to evangelize while simultaneously complaining when others do it.

Funnier still when you realize the total irrationality of it considering, to them, whether you believe in fantasy or not, everyone ends up with the same result while the passing of time guarantees that all of their actions result in nothing.

At least with those incompetent religious people it makes some sense that they do what they do. After all, it makes sense that they preach because they believe those things.

That's why I find it so cute, in a rather pathetic sort of way, when atheist go out evangelizing. Since, logically speaking, in their view it won't change anything.

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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 30th, 2013 @ 05:56 PM Reply

At 1/30/13 05:35 PM, abbiegale wrote: In other words, does accepting that god exists automatically make you a religious person?

Some atheists might. Regardless of personal feelings that's really not a very good way of defining agnostic.


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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 30th, 2013 @ 06:01 PM Reply

It's probably the same with Christians not wanting to be lumped into the same category as people like the Westborough Baptist Church..

I think the term atheist is as definitive as you're gona get. Anti-Thiest sounds even more hostile towards religious groups.


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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 30th, 2013 @ 06:15 PM Reply

At 1/30/13 06:06 PM, abbiegale wrote: If you have seriously decided that religion has no place in your life, why would you?

Many reasons. Will I go to hell if I don't participate? Do I find this god appealing? Are there new benefits to religion that I have to consider now?

If something that drastic changed everyone would obviously be forced to reconsider their beliefs.

Expand, please?

That's just not what the word's definition is.


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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 31st, 2013 @ 06:14 AM Reply

At 1/30/13 05:35 PM, abbiegale wrote: I DIDN'T SAY THAT THEY WOULD STILL THINK THERE IS NO GOD.

If the average Christian found out that their soul would be put in Hell and they would be tortured for all eternity unless they became Muslim, they would likely do all they possibly could to avoid eternal hellfire. I really don't know why you would say atheists would not respond to their beliefs being proved incorrect in anything less than a sensible way. It looks like I have pissed you off, which was not my intention, and for that I apologise.

So Thor makes thunder, or the Sun is actually a God called Ra - would an agnostic exclude the possibility that these concepts are correct?
Is that what I said? ... if you keep putting words in my mouth I won't respond to you anymore

I was not trying to put words in your mouth - you said that agnostics do not exclude the possibility of religion being correct, and I was asking you to further explain what you meant about this, using examples. From my experience, many agnostics actually do exclude the possibility of any religion being correct and would use the exact same arguments against a Christian as an atheist would.

Probably those who became atheists out of spite.

Could you also explain what you mean by this?

Poxpower:

That's just the same as being a skeptic really, why do we need a word JUST for gods?

I agree with that in general, but I know from experience that people define God(s) in a completely different way. How would you define 'God'? I would say what I'm really 'atheist' about is the concept of a cosmic dictator who gives a shit about you, and I don't even see the point in arguing against the concept of a 'living being that triggered some aspect of space and time'. Many people say, "You don't believe in God? What started the universe then?" As if the definition of God is 'the thing that started the universe'. Not 'the thing that answers prayers'.

As far as you saying earlier:

These damn atheist minus ultra-PC people who think they're being clever because they figured out philosophy 101 concepts like the Matrix or a Dream world. OH WHAT IS REALITY? WHO CAN KNOW? PERHAPS NOTHING IS TRUE, THEREFORE I AM AN AGNOSTIC.

I actually think this is a relevant discussion to have when we're talking about the concept of 'belief', especially in terms of our existence. At what point do we stop being 'agnostic' about 'philosophy 101' concepts? Many agnostics do proclaim 'nobody can truly know' whether or not there is a God, so they remain agnostic. I'm just pointing out that nobody can truly know if this is really reality, so the same argument remains.

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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 31st, 2013 @ 06:37 AM Reply

At 1/31/13 06:14 AM, Earfetish wrote: I agree with that in general, but I know from experience that people define God(s) in a completely different way. How would you define 'God'? I would say what I'm really 'atheist' about is the concept of a cosmic dictator who gives a shit about you, and I don't even see the point in arguing against the concept of a 'living being that triggered some aspect of space and time'. Many people say, "You don't believe in God? What started the universe then?" As if the definition of God is 'the thing that started the universe'. Not 'the thing that answers prayers'.

That's actually a darn good point.

I always liked the theory that the term 'God' often derives from mankind's limitations of knowledge, so back when we were largely ignorant about complex natural events or diseases, volcanoes, tides, etc. we just used the word God to fill in the gaps of what we couldn't explain. And now our knowledge of the world is so advanced God has been pushed back to the very recesses of what we still don't know yet, like the 'God particle' and mind fucking deep space shit.


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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 31st, 2013 @ 06:53 AM Reply

At 1/31/13 06:14 AM, Earfetish wrote:
I agree with that in general, but I know from experience that people define God(s) in a completely different way.

That's their problem really.
I'm no longer in the business of convincing idiot fence-sitters who side with Christians instead of atheists because although they don't believe in any form of deism or theism, they talk about shit like "life energies" or whatever all the while calling themselves Christians for the social / political benefits.

Those people aren't interested in truth, I don't think we should dumb down everything for them.

The enemies of reason aren't them anyway, they're the theists and their god damned insanity. No one's trying to past Deist legislation, they're just sadly too stupid not to give support to theist political parties and causes.

I poo on them. If they can't be convinced already with what's floating out there, it's because they DON'T WANT to be. Dawkins has explained atheism in 40 different, unambiguous ways already yet you have idiots like memorize or camaro just never ever understanding it and ( I suspect ) willfully so.

So yeah, enough words already.

The concept of gods is as silly as all the rest, they should get no special treatment when ghosts, fairies, magic etc. don't.

I actually think this is a relevant discussion to have when we're talking about the concept of 'belief', especially in terms of our existence. At what point do we stop being 'agnostic' about 'philosophy 101' concepts?

At the point where you feel actual pain and pleasure and can pretty much figure out that no matter how hard you try to believe otherwise, reality seems to be entirely responsible for them.

I can't be agnostic about the pain I feel when I get kicked in the nuts. Everything else about the universe derives from the assumption that I can avoid future nut-kicking in a predictable fashion using reasoning and science, which, as it turns out, is always true.

The other answer is that you can't be agnostic about concepts that change nothing. For instance: The Matrix. What does it mean to be "agnostic" about the idea that we're all in the matrix? Well it means the same as being "agnostic" about the idea of a wizard casting a spell on everyone WHILE IN THE MATRIX WHILE IN INCEPTION WHILE IN A DREAM FROM A MONKEY SITTING ON THE MOON WHICH IS REALLY THE EGG OF A COSMIC TURTLE HOLY SHIT.

The idea of being "undecided" on things that decide nothing is useless. I can't even bet on it. Are we in the matrix? Well that can't ever be proven, I can't ever bet on it and it doesn't change a god damned thing.

So if I was going to answer a political survey with "Yes I am open to the possibility of being in the Matrix" I would look like an idiot because it would be obvious to everyone that I could list an infinite amount of these universe-neutral scenarios to "be open to".

So yes, back to rule 1, since the world behaves exactly the same as if it was observable and predictable, and you stand to gain or lose a lot of pain by observing these rules, you can't be a dipshit philo 101 student and piss your life away on "discovering" elementary logical concepts all day long. Philosophy's time is over anyway. Not that there ever was a time for it really. Again based on rule 1, you can't "figure out" everything in your head.

So really. Pretty useless.


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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 31st, 2013 @ 10:02 AM Reply

That's actually a darn good point.

I always liked the theory that the term 'God' often derives from mankind's limitations of knowledge, so back when we were largely ignorant about complex natural events or diseases, volcanoes, tides, etc. we just used the word God to fill in the gaps of what we couldn't explain. And now our knowledge of the world is so advanced God has been pushed back to the very recesses of what we still don't know yet, like the 'God particle' and mind fucking deep space shit.

Do you think we know that much honestly? We don't, in general only the educated understand how little we know.

"Idiots know, the competent ask."

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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 31st, 2013 @ 11:08 AM Reply

At 1/31/13 10:02 AM, Ceratisa wrote: Do you think we know that much honestly? We don't, in general only the educated understand how little we know.

"Idiots know, the competent ask."

And Socrates said "I know enough to know that I know nothing" which I've always kind of liked.

My point was, in the middle ages when a huge chunk of the population died of some horrible plague or whatever, society didn't know there was such a thing as microorganisms, vaccines, DNA, red blood cells, airborne contamination or whatever, and the best explanation that people could come up with was "oh it was God's will" and that would have to suffice before they had a better explanation. As our knowledge about the world grew, the term God got pushed back further and further.

I'm not saying for a second that we know everything now, but I'm saying the need for a concept like a God is now only reserved for those very big cosmic questions that science hasn't cracked yet.


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NewgroundsMike
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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 31st, 2013 @ 01:11 PM Reply

At 1/29/13 12:23 AM, Xombiehacker wrote: (For the record, I'm agnostic and believe not that there is no god, but that I won't decide one way or the other until given true proof one way or the other.)

You can't prove there is a god, cause if you have proof, then you have no need to believe. And if you can't believe in God, then he's unnecessary.
I usually don't judge people based on their religion, but to all the atheists out there, I have to say this: Have a happy afterlife.


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Response to New slang "Anti-Theist" Jan. 31st, 2013 @ 02:13 PM Reply

At 1/31/13 11:30 AM, abbiegale wrote: (by the way, DickChick, "expand" doesn't mean "rephrase" - tell me where I'm wrong and what your definition would be.)

Agnosticism is not a middle ground between theism and atheism.

Agnosticism is about knowledge, not belief, so it's compatible with both atheism and theism. A theist can believe in god without claiming to know for sure that he exists, which makes him an agnostic theist.

Atheism simply means a disbelief in gods. An atheist does not necessarily claim to know either way if gods exist or not. In fact he may choose not to believe in gods because he does not know. In that case he would also be an agnostic atheist.

Most people that call themselves agnostics are actually atheists who use the label to claim that they're somehow more open minded than atheists. In fact most of the atheists they look down upon are agnostics as well because they don't claim to have absolute knowledge of the existence of deities.

It's possible to not believe either way but that belief doesn't necessarily make you open minded, it just means that you don't believe in anything.

Once can publicly criticize religion and publicly admit to their disbelief in gods while still being open minded. One can adopt an anti-religious stance while still being open minded. Criticism is not the same as intolerance. Hearing criticism doesn't hurt anyone's right to believe what they want.


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