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Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject

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Fatelogic
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Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-27 00:27:34

Ssup people. First of all, sorry for the horrendous thread title (it's that 35 character limit thingy fault -.-)

Allow me to introduce myself:

I'm Fatelogic, an anime style illustrator, and a life long Visual Novel fan. I'm here today looking for artists (digital artists if possible) who can defend themselves when it comes to Background illustration.

Thing is I'm preparing all that's needed to start a Visual Novel project, with the main ideas figured out and all the knowledge needed to create it... but my weak point is BG creation. I know how to program under Ren'Py script language (a special program focused on VN developement), I consider myself a rather good illustrator (you can check my gallery if you want), I know good sources for BGM and sound effects with free royalty and under CC license, I did two short hentai (pretty shallow storywise though) games, and I'm working over the storyline and script as we speak, so as you can see, I've got pretty much all that's needed... EXCEPT BG DESIGN SKILLS.

So basically, I'm looking for someone with good skills at background illustration (especially structural designs, such as buildings, cityscapes and such). When I say good, I really mean it. Ok, you don't need to be RK Post or Ciruello (that'd be awesome though... but that's just a dream xD), but you have to at least be able to show you know your trade ;)

The details of the storyline and such are being worked out (it's still on it's early stages), but the game will be heavily narrated on a full screen display textbox (not ADV, for those who understand what I'm talking about xD), and I'm still wondering if there will be Adult Rated content (hentai). I do not intend to make of this a mindless porn game, mind you, so take into account all those details and, if you're up for the task, contact me ;) We will figure something out.

Thanks for your time, and I await your answers!!!

Fate out!

Fatelogic
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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-27 01:16:55

BTW, when I manage to get some spare time, I'll upload a couple photos I slightly altered as to give an insight about the kind of specific cityscapes needed, but still, if you consider yourself a decent BG artist, go on and ask whatever you feel like asking. I'll answer the best way I manage ^^

Fatelogic
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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-27 03:05:44

Come on guys, don't be shy... I can almost hear the crickets -.-

Fatelogic
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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-27 16:11:21

Well... looks like no one is interested or up to the task -.- Too bad :(

Template88
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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-27 16:13:15

Are you interested in knowing why?


Thoughts in chaos...
Illustration thread: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic /1229930
Animation thread: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic /1332069

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Tomsan
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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-27 17:54:50

At 1/27/13 04:13 PM, Template88 wrote: Are you interested in knowing why?

I am...

its funny how lots of people are in need of BG artists. there seems to be a market for this. funnily enough creating a BG is harder then one might think.

is there a payment? (im not interested, but I know people wanna know)


God invented evolution 'cause he couldn't do it all by himself! Awesome Tees!

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Fatelogic
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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-27 18:12:24

At 1/27/13 05:54 PM, Tomsan wrote:
is there a payment? (im not interested, but I know people wanna know)

It's debatible, but the offers I recieved till now rounded the 40U$D and above, and that's just unacceptable (unless you're a BG illustration master, and even if some of the offers were decent, they certainly weren't worth the price for each piece (by my standards, of course. Some others might differ, but that's not in discussion here.)

But truth be told, unless some really friggin awesome BG artist that BLOWS MY MIND appears (which is really rare), I'm not in any position to offer a payment, mainly because the project is intended to be released as a free game (I won't make a profit either). Besides, paying high prices for BG is not really worth it since I can work my way out and create the BGs on my own with mixed techniques of Photoshop and SketchUp models. I just wanted to see if:

1) I would be able to delegate some work (I'm doing the entire work of a whole game developement team alone).
2) If someone would be interested in aquiring collaboration experience and promotion.

Hope this cleared some of your doubts.

Fatelogic
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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-27 18:44:57

At 1/27/13 06:23 PM, Escalus wrote: PS: If you can do it on your own, then don't ask for others to do it for you, this just shows that you are lazy and very inconsiderate of other people willing to do work for you.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about AT ALL. First of all, yeah, I'm expecting that, in the case someone requires payment for his job, then his job must be fitting to the task. What? You want me to pay for any kind of work, regardless of how bad it could be? I don't know which rich family pampers you, but I have just the bare minimum resources to live from what I like to do. I can't throw money at half assed works, and my bet is that you wouldn't do it either, so don't come at me pretending to be the defender of the poor and absent, it reeks of troll.

Second, I said I can work my way out of it if it comes to that, something I'm trying to avoid because it would overwhelm me with all the work needed to do, and even then I know that, even if decent, there are people out there better than me at BG design. You don't talk me about lazy, kid. I've spent months working on my last game all by my own. I'm my own character designer, programmer, storywritter, sound editor, illustrator, etc. I had to learn AS3 scripting from scratch through months of hard work just to be able to cover each area needed to create a game on my own.

This search isn't intended to do ''my work for me because of lazziness". All good games are composed of a team of workers, and I'm looking for people more fitting than me who are interested in participating on a joint project. I have to handle the artistic department, the storywriting, the programming, the distribution, the sound editing... and you call me lazy? Who are you, the president of the UN...? Give me a break...

Your manners leave much to be desired kid. Don't jump into conclusions and accuse people at random just because you started the day with the wrong foot.

TurkeyOnAStick
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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-27 19:20:09

I think you got all you came for. You're not willing to accept the offers from people who want payment (and I'm sure you're smart enough to check out their galleries to see if their decent), and nobody has been interested in taking on free work.

You said you can do the BGs on your own, so you may as well give that a go.

At 1/27/13 06:44 PM, Fatelogic wrote: Your manners leave much to be desired kid.

I'd side with your argument better if you didn't resort to undermining others as "kids".


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KiwiSundae
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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-27 19:40:20

Whatever's going on here, please stop it.

Here's how I would do it: MAKE YOUR TERMS AND CONDITIONS CLEAR FROM THE GET-GO!

Or better yet, just ask people from around the Art Forums and the Portal if they're interested in the job. Stop posting ads and just ask people. I can tell there's currently a flame war going on, and my guess is that you're not making your terms and conditions clear.


The time for making a webcomic is now..Introducing...

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Fatelogic
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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-27 19:44:27

At 1/27/13 07:08 PM, Escalus wrote: For one, you come in expecting people to work for nothing, not only that but you first say:
" if you consider yourself a decent BG artist, go on and ask whatever you feel like asking. I'll answer the best way I manage ^^"

Wrong from the start. I worked half my whole career as an illustration in exchange for promotion and opportunities to learn about my now chosen trade. Even more, I never said I wouldn't consider payment. I said that, if payment is required, it must be accessible, and the work must be worth it (40 U$D each BG becomes unaffordable for independant, non profit focused projects).

Nobody is forcing anyone to work under non desired conditions, so stop whining. If anyone doesn't like it, they can walk away without any problems. I don't hold hostages kid -.-

Okay great, someone who's "Decent" might come along and want to work for you, but what's this??
"But truth be told, unless some really friggin awesome BG artist that BLOWS MY MIND appears (which is really rare), I'm not in any position to offer a payment"
That throws out any credibility that you have as a person willing to work for, and it turns off any chances of you getting any "decent" background artist to work with you, because if a pro BG artist looked at this proposal, they will most likely laugh their asses off.

Wrong again. First of all, I'm not requiring professionals. I'm requiring people with enough skills. As I said, I'm working on a project without profit in mind. I'm sorry you only seem to care about money, but that's your choice. I really couldn't care less though. Each proposal is evaluated in terms of compatibility and quality. Again, you must be pretty easygoing with money, but I'm sorry, normal indie developers and artists have to keep their options realistic. I can't put money where I don't consider it's worth it.

But that's not the nail in the coffin here:
"paying high prices for BG is not really worth it since I can work my way out and create the BGs on my own with mixed techniques of Photoshop and SketchUp models."
If you could do it yourself, then there was no point in wasting other people's time And potential takers's time for your smut visual novel)

Wasting time? Well, you clearly are pretty free as to nitpick and complain over a request you're supposedly not interested in... besides, you know nothing of the project, so your attempts at qualificating it are just failed troll attempts. Better luck next time.

I've worked with people like you who waste the time of others only to brush them off later on because their work wasn't GOOD ENOUGH by your high standards. It's a fuckin' pain putting time and effort in something, only to hear someone say "You know what, I have the necessary skills to do it myself and you aren't needed anymore, you can forget about payment, thanks for wasting your time though"

No serious artist in his right mind would work IN ADVANCE kid. Who ever said anything like that!? Stop putting words I didn't say on my mouth... Goes to show your inexperience. I never mentioned that those interested would have to do the artworks, give them to me, and THEN IF I DECIDE THAT I LIKE THEM I AGREE OR NOT... that's just stupid, and anyone who considers that a viable way of doing a collaborative work is a newbie...

Let me explain how I've handled the proposals that came to me so far:

The artist contacts me via PM, I ask them were can I see samples of their work as to KNOW IF THEY'RE WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR, and then, if their previous works convince me that it would complement the project on a positive way, ONLY THEN I ASK THEM FOR THEIR CONDITIONS AND REQUESTS (crediting, use limitations, payment, etc.). Once they answer me, I consider the pros and cons, and then answer back telling them if I'm ok with the conditions or if they exceed my posibilities.

So, to make things clear, I NEVER WASTE ANYONE'S EFFORT IF I'M UNSURE IF I'll BE ABLE TO MAKE GOOD USE OF THEIR SKILLS. I work as an independant illustrator since 2006 more or less, so I'm totally aware of the effort it takes to create each piece. I would never consider making someone work without being able to guarantee their efforts won't go to waste, nor would I drop them midway through... that's your just self deluded paranoia... I'm sorry you had to work with such douches, but don't put me on the same box because you know jack squat about me...

All this ramble about wasting other artists effort and such sounds like resentful whining. If you have choosen your previous work partners with a poor judgement, then that's your problem. Solve it on your own, but don't drag people you don't even know into your personal bad experiences.

your proposal is bullshit, and no self respecting background artist should have to put up with people like you/

Think whatever you want, I couldn't care less. People have mind of their own. Rest assured that if someone isn't interested in the proposal, they won't bother themselves with it and move on. Just pointing out that they don't need your enlightening guidance, so stop underestimating other artists and focus on gaining more experience yourself as one.

And please, if you're not interested in the proposal (not that I'd be interested in what you'd have to offer after such an ammount of disrespectful comments), move on with your life. I created this thread with productive outcomes in mind, not useless attempts at trolling.

Fatelogic
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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-27 19:47:34

At 1/27/13 07:20 PM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote:
I'd side with your argument better if you didn't resort to undermining others as "kids".

You're right. That appelative can be interpreted as agressive. I do apologize. I just lost part of my composure for a moment due to such an elaborated insult, but I should know better when to let it go.

Fatelogic
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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-27 19:52:20

At 1/27/13 07:40 PM, KiwiSundae wrote: Whatever's going on here, please stop it.

Here's how I would do it: MAKE YOUR TERMS AND CONDITIONS CLEAR FROM THE GET-GO!

Or better yet, just ask people from around the Art Forums and the Portal if they're interested in the job. Stop posting ads and just ask people. I can tell there's currently a flame war going on, and my guess is that you're not making your terms and conditions clear.

Maybe I should have clarified that I intended to answer the doubts and details this propossal might arise via personal PMs. It's just that all the proposals that came to me since I posted this did so through PMs, so I thought it was self explanatory -.-

Anyway, those reading this, just in case, please redirect your doubts and such to me through PMs ^^

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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-27 23:11:27

This is exactly what i wanted to happen when I asked if you wanted to know why no one was interested.

This entire thread summarizes the reason.


Thoughts in chaos...
Illustration thread: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic /1229930
Animation thread: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic /1332069

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Fatelogic
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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-28 00:14:02

At 1/27/13 11:11 PM, Template88 wrote: This is exactly what i wanted to happen when I asked if you wanted to know why no one was interested.

This entire thread summarizes the reason.

Really useful observation.

Fatelogic
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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-28 00:21:03

At 1/27/13 11:11 PM, Template88 wrote: This is exactly what i wanted to happen when I asked if you wanted to know why no one was interested.

This entire thread summarizes the reason.

Ah, and I almost forgot... you're wrong. I've already recieved a couple offers which I'm evaluating through PMs as I stated before...

So... yeah. Sorry to say, but money doesn't necesarilly runs every aspect of life... The VN called "Tsukihime" is a nice example of that. Almost no budged, but genious content... I'm looking for people who can understand that.

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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-28 01:06:51

At 1/28/13 12:21 AM, Fatelogic wrote: The VN called "Tsukihime" is a nice example of that. Almost no budged, but genious content... I'm looking for people who can understand that.

Tsukihime was sold though. This is a free game you're describing. There's not even the opportunity to make money once it's released.


Aigis - Putting the 'ai' back in 'Aigis'.

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Fatelogic
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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-28 01:34:11

At 1/28/13 01:06 AM, Aigis wrote:
At 1/28/13 12:21 AM, Fatelogic wrote: The VN called "Tsukihime" is a nice example of that. Almost no budged, but genious content... I'm looking for people who can understand that.
Tsukihime was sold though. This is a free game you're describing. There's not even the opportunity to make money once it's released.

True, but the creative process took no budget whatsoever (they even used filtered generic photos for BG). Project Moon was formed by a mere group of two or three people with no real intention of profit in the beginning. Of course, once it was released, it became such a big hit that contracts for sponsoring and even an anime representation were offered, but they didn't knew that until it happened. My point remains: money isn't necesarilly the motivational focus of every project. I'm not interested in going for what could make a profit, but what me and those who work with me might enjoy while doing it.

Come on, it's a simple concept, it can't be that hard to understand.

Fatelogic
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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-28 01:37:18

At 1/28/13 01:06 AM, Aigis wrote:
At 1/28/13 12:21 AM, Fatelogic wrote: The VN called "Tsukihime" is a nice example of that. Almost no budged, but genious content... I'm looking for people who can understand that.
Tsukihime was sold though. This is a free game you're describing. There's not even the opportunity to make money once it's released.

Oh, and BTW, it was retroactive profit. If the game bombed, then no money would have been made. Goes to show the creators wanted to tell a story, regardless of the possible profit it could provide. This is the same. I want to tell a story. If it ends bombing or being a great hit, I do not know yet. But I can't promisse profit from it, just the same way Project Moon couldn't at the time.

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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-28 01:52:30

If they didn't care about money they wouldn't have sold it, and given it out as freeware. Stop twisting things to vaguely relate to what you want to do, they are completely different things with completely different goals.
You've said what you're doing, and have gotten offers from people interested. What is the point of trying to convince people who aren't interested?

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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-28 02:15:27

At 1/28/13 01:52 AM, M-Vero wrote: If they didn't care about money they wouldn't have sold it, and given it out as freeware. Stop twisting things to vaguely relate to what you want to do, they are completely different things with completely different goals.
You've said what you're doing, and have gotten offers from people interested. What is the point of trying to convince people who aren't interested?

I'm not trying to convince anyone really. I just answer from my point of view to observations I can or can't agree with because it's what I feel like doing. Nobody is forcing you to give your opinion, and nobody can force me to not give my own as well, so what's your problem with me talking about an issue or topic that popped up on a thread I created?

But you know what? Fortunatelly I had (and still are) recieved offers and deals I'm evaluating alongside the artists who got interested in the proposal, so I'm more than satisfied. It's just a shame to see so many people in this site focus on the commercial point of view of art and storytelling (there are obvious exceptions of course, but this thread has shown many of these kind of people). I even haven't denied a monetary compensation, as long as it seemed reasonable for the work recieved in exchange, but all I read is demands on commercialization, focus on material profit that the project might bring as an outcome. Don't get me wrong, everyone is in their right of trying to make some kind of profit out of their work, but when the WHOLE thread is reduced to "WHAT'S THE PROFIT?" and, if there's none, "YOUR PROPOSAL IS OBSOLETE GARBAGE, GO DIE IN A FIRE" kind of comments... what can I say... it's just sad to see ALL the other aspects that a visual novel creative process implies, such as personal experience, teamwork, storytelling, artistic critique... ALL BUTCHERED by one single question:

"Where's my check".

That's it, there's no prior question. No "What's the story about", "what's the setting like", "how will my work be intended to be used inside the project", "what's the audience it aims to like", "do you have past experiences in developing teamwork"... nah, just "what's in for me", that's all I care for...

Suit yourselves guys... It's ok to want to make a living out of your art, but this is just downright moneygrubbing... I've got no interest in working with people whose only goal is to make as much profit as possible. I just wanted to create an interesting work envoirment for a creative project...

Whatever, I'll consider this thread as closed for me. Thank you and goodbye.

P.s: Curious how this problem hasn't appeared in any of the other 3 sites I posted it, mainly DA... just a curious observation.

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Response to Looking For Bg Artist For Vnproject 2013-01-28 03:54:44

I think this thread has come to its end. If anybody's interested, shoot Fatelogic a PM.

At 1/28/13 02:15 AM, Fatelogic wrote: P.s: Curious how this problem hasn't appeared in any of the other 3 sites I posted it, mainly DA... just a curious observation.

DA journal entries are going to be directed at people who follow your work, share jokes with you and would share similar interests.
I don't know on the other sites, but I think the flood gates were opened when the thread became open for other people's opinion.


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