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What's up with N.K?

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juni0rj0hn
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What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 11:59:41 Reply

I'm wondering guys, is North Korea a potential threat to anyone's safety? Little info is ever given on Kim Jong Un since his father died, and you always hear about nuclear weapon possibilities. Something's sketchy about it, and if they pose a threat to the U.S, the government's likely to go to war with them. What do you think?

LemonCrush
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 12:13:11 Reply

At 1/26/13 11:59 AM, juni0rj0hn wrote: I'm wondering guys, is North Korea a potential threat to anyone's safety? Little info is ever given on Kim Jong Un since his father died, and you always hear about nuclear weapon possibilities. Something's sketchy about it, and if they pose a threat to the U.S, the government's likely to go to war with them. What do you think?

They're not a threat to the US. But would be a threat to nations like Japan.

It's not NK we need to keep an eye on, it's China. While China is nowhere near us in terms on weaponry and capability, that doesn't mean they won't act irrationally aggressive when the chance arises, such as when the "One Country, Two Systems" agreement expires in a couple decades.

They're itching for war with everyone, especially Taiwan. And while they won't win, it certainly will put a drain on things and loss of life

Feoric
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 14:02:27 Reply

The strange thing with NK and SK is that both of them believe that they will be unified at some point in the future. I think that's arguably the greatest "threat" if you want to look at it that way. The cost SK would have to pay to assimilate the horribly impoverished citizens and the crumbling infrastructure will likely cost trillions.

LemonCrush
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 14:05:39 Reply

At 1/26/13 02:02 PM, Feoric wrote: The cost SK would have to pay to assimilate the horribly impoverished citizens and the crumbling infrastructure will likely cost trillions.

Which will no doubt be mostly, or at least partially funded with our tax dollars.

Korriken
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 14:07:06 Reply

At 1/26/13 11:59 AM, juni0rj0hn wrote: I'm wondering guys, is North Korea a potential threat to anyone's safety? Little info is ever given on Kim Jong Un since his father died, and you always hear about nuclear weapon possibilities. Something's sketchy about it, and if they pose a threat to the U.S, the government's likely to go to war with them. What do you think?

I personally think a war with North Korea would be the best thing for North Korea. the biggest threat would actually be China. North Korea is acting so ballsey because China has their back. They can't attack South Korea because the USA would eat them alive. South Korea can't attack North Korea because of China. Basically what you have is 2 8 year old children shouting and taunting each other, while their 14 year old brothers hold them back.

the USA is the only thing stopping North Korea from trying to take over South Korea and China is the only thing stopping South Korea from taking over North Korea.

if either superpower falls, the war is on.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

Feoric
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 14:14:14 Reply

Everyone wants rhetoric, nobody wants war. This should be extremely obvious since we're talking about North Korea.

TheMason
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 14:19:01 Reply

At 1/26/13 02:02 PM, Feoric wrote: The strange thing with NK and SK is that both of them believe that they will be unified at some point in the future. I think that's arguably the greatest "threat" if you want to look at it that way. The cost SK would have to pay to assimilate the horribly impoverished citizens and the crumbling infrastructure will likely cost trillions.

Yes and no.

SK: We'll reunify when NK collapses (until then we've got to keep the regime alive as long as possible).
NK: We'll reunify when we can invade and take back/liberate SK.

When I was there, it is a dream that South Koreans feverently want emotionally. On the other hand, they know that reunification will be infinately harder (sociologically, politically as well as economically)...so they want to put off that day of reckoning. So logically and in their heads they don't want reunification.

So sadly for the NK people...an evil regime is propped up by SK, China, Japan and the US.


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LemonCrush
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 14:24:47 Reply

At 1/26/13 02:14 PM, Feoric wrote: Everyone wants rhetoric, nobody wants war. This should be extremely obvious since we're talking about North Korea.

Well, they're run by an egotistical nutbar. Egotistical nutbars that run countries have a tendency to not think about consequences of war or their actions in general. War is nothing to them, because they think they are some sort of unbeatable power.

Kim Jong-Il was certifiably insane, and I wouldn't be surprised if the attitudes carried over into his successor.

Warforger
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 14:29:09 Reply

At 1/26/13 12:13 PM, LemonCrush wrote :

They're itching for war with everyone, especially Taiwan. And while they won't win, it certainly will put a drain on things and loss of life

You have little clue what you're talking about. ROC-PRC relations are actually pretty good and they've actually been cooperating pretty well. Hell they were even unified against Japan over territorial disputes. The PRC is nothing like it was under Mao, now it's cold and calculating pretty much forgetting the whole Marxism thing. You can tell just by how it reacts to Communist rebels, in Nepal for example the Maoist rebels in the 90's almost took over the government and asked the PRC for support but the PRC just told them to stop and end the war. All the PRC is looking for now is a peaceful re-unification with Taiwan like it did with Hong Kong and Macao. Now they're amazing, but the PRC by no means wants to take over every neighbor it wants with force.


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LemonCrush
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 14:32:00 Reply

At 1/26/13 02:29 PM, Warforger wrote: You have little clue what you're talking about.

Well actual taiwanese immigrants disagree. A possible war with China, or I guess, fear of war with China, is a very real thing.

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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 16:49:25 Reply

At 1/26/13 02:32 PM, LemonCrush wrote: Well actual taiwanese immigrants disagree.

Well yah of course a war is still possible, but the PRC does not want a war. It does not want to expand it's quite fine with what it has.

A possible war with China, or I guess, fear of war with China, is a very real thing.

Only if idiots take control of China because if a war were to occur against the US then the government would crumble quickly because of how dependent they are on exports. The booming economy is the only thing keeping the PRC up and running and it's what kept them from falling in 1989. I guess you could say they would develop to the point where they wouldn't need to export as much, which then I would point to the fact that there's a huge gender imbalance due to the One Child Policy which will probably lead to a 2nd Chinese Civil War. So no China does not want to expand.


"If you don't mind smelling like peanut butter for two or three days, peanut butter is darn good shaving cream.
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LordJaric
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 17:03:52 Reply

This is how North Korea is on a good day.

A bad day they are just solely crushing down on their own people.


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leanlifter1
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 17:08:49 Reply

At 1/26/13 02:24 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
Well, they're run by an egotistical nutbar. Egotistical nutbars that run countries have a tendency to not think about consequences of war or their actions in general. War is nothing to them, because they think they are some sort of unbeatable power.

The irony is that you don't see that the US is the worst for this.


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Ceratisa
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 18:30:02 Reply

At 1/26/13 02:24 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
At 1/26/13 02:14 PM, Feoric wrote: Everyone wants rhetoric, nobody wants war. This should be extremely obvious since we're talking about North Korea.
Well, they're run by an egotistical nutbar. Egotistical nutbars that run countries have a tendency to not think about consequences of war or their actions in general. War is nothing to them, because they think they are some sort of unbeatable power.

Kim Jong-Il was certifiably insane, and I wouldn't be surprised if the attitudes carried over into his successor.

It isn't that his attitude carries over imho, as much as he has even more to prove being the new leader. He could take drastic steps to cement himself into the position.

orangebomb
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 19:00:21 Reply

North Korea is a threat to South Korea, Japan and even Russia, considering that they do have missile technology that can easily strike them given the chance. Also, China does have their back, {for now} so that gives them the stones to make threats knowing that a pre-emptive strike on North Korea could easily turn the Korean Peninsula into a nuclear wasteland, and can only get worse from there. Also remember that North Korea has been all talk for a long time, and until they fire the first shot, then they are simply an annoyance, and not a target for nuclear elimination.

The one wild card is China, largely because they do have the back of North Korea now, if NK does attack SK, then a retaliatory attack will be imminent, and then the Chinese will back out and leave NK as a sacrificial lamb to the nuclear fryer. China wouldn't dare to threaten their best economic customer, and even with their "million man army", they don't stand much of a chance against America in a toe-to-toe fight, especially when nuclear weapons get involved. No sane leaders within the Far East want to be near North Korea if they attack, because everyone else not named China will turn them into toast within a matter of time.


Just stop worrying, and love the bomb.

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leanlifter1
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 19:39:01 Reply

At 1/26/13 07:00 PM, orangebomb wrote:

Another All American ego pump out of you. If the Mid East is giving the US a hard time China will demolish the US. Tone it down on the all American rhetoric cause people are getting real tired of it.


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tyler2513
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 21:18:23 Reply

North Korea is only really a major threat in the Korean Peninsula. But if the U.S tried to do anything about it, I believe China has that signed agreement in which they agree to fend off any unwanted military intervention in North Korea. China is like a mother defending her mentally retarded child.


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LemonCrush
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 21:35:28 Reply

At 1/26/13 05:08 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: The irony is that you don't see that the US is the worst for this.

The irony is that you don't think I see that.

LemonCrush
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 21:37:04 Reply

At 1/26/13 06:30 PM, Ceratisa wrote: It isn't that his attitude carries over imho, as much as he has even more to prove being the new leader. He could take drastic steps to cement himself into the position.

Yes.

Every dictator thinks their an unstoppable force, and the risk of losing does not outweigh the lure of power.

orangebomb
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 22:32:39 Reply

At 1/26/13 07:39 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 1/26/13 07:00 PM, orangebomb wrote:
Another All American ego pump out of you.

Oh great, more ignorant American bashing.

I have no idea what I'm talking about

Fixed. I honestly have no fucking idea where you got that from, but I know you're wrong. For God's sake, America has a massive technological edge along with having the more carriers, jets, tanks and the like, don't think we're some pathetic army that can't put a fight with anyone. If your going to this ignorant, then don't comment.


Just stop worrying, and love the bomb.

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MrPercie
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 22:55:15 Reply

out with the old kim, in with the new (same old) kim


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theburningliberal
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-26 23:10:49 Reply

At 1/26/13 02:07 PM, Korriken wrote: North Korea is acting so ballsey because China has their back. They can't attack South Korea because the USA would eat them alive. South Korea can't attack North Korea because of China

Actually, that relationship might be on ice following North Korea's recent threat of a nuclear test. The Chinese have taken steps to tighten sanctions on North Korea, as well as putting the overall nature of the Chinese/NK relationship in a different light.

if either superpower falls, the war is on.

I don't think so. Things are volatile in that region, but just because China has began to fall into some level of agreement with Washington doesn't mean that China is yet ready or willing to use their economic leverage against North Korea. Even then, it would still be uncertain whether NK would destabilize, maybe causing a nuclear crisis or attempting to nuke the US or Chinda. None of those things can reliably be proven, especially considering how volatile the region is.

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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-27 00:20:03 Reply

As theburningliberal alluded to with that article, China is the country that has the most influence over North Korea, although I won't go as far to say that they have them on a leash.

Anyone who is seriously contemplating the possibility of a war involving North Korea and China and other parties is just being a delusional armchair general with wild apocalyptic fantasies. The situation as it pertains to the relationship between the world and NK continues the way it has been (and will continue) because everyone is happier with the status quo as opposed to the alternative. China doesn't want millions of impoverished refugees seeking haven within its borders, the US has no interest in its inevitable diplomatic role in a Korean unification, and South Korea simply just does not have the economic capability to annex and rebuild the North. For some real life historical comparison, the reunification of Germany caused a (roughly) 25% drag on West German GDP for over a decade. In this example, South Korea is a much smaller economy looking at a much higher wealth gap.

China won't even dare to dream of war involving the American security bloc because it would get curb stomped. We wouldn't even have to lift a finger. The Japanese Defense Forces could sink anything the second it left port, all on its own. The Chinese air force is a joke anywhere outside of China's SAM coverage. The PLA? Don't get me started. The Chinese would get massacred and they know it. The whole hypothetical war is not happening and is merely the vagaries of paranoid xenophobes. Its predicated on a Chinese leadership gone insane and a gross misunderstanding of China in general.

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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-27 00:32:56 Reply

Umm Feoric, China shoots people trying to cross into its border.

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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-27 00:36:24 Reply

At 1/27/13 12:32 AM, Ceratisa wrote: Umm Feoric, China shoots people trying to cross into its border.

What does this have anything to do with my post?

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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-27 07:07:21 Reply

At 1/26/13 11:10 PM, theburningliberal wrote:
Actually, that relationship might be on ice following North Korea's recent threat of a nuclear test. The Chinese have taken steps to tighten sanctions on North Korea, as well as putting the overall nature of the Chinese/NK relationship in a different light.

China would still have their back, in the end. NK is one of Chinas trading partners, they're also both authoritarian autocratic governments, and those tend to stick together.


if either superpower falls, the war is on.
I don't think so. Things are volatile in that region, but just because China has began to fall into some level of agreement with Washington doesn't mean that China is yet ready or willing to use their economic leverage against North Korea. Even then, it would still be uncertain whether NK would destabilize, maybe causing a nuclear crisis or attempting to nuke the US or Chinda. None of those things can reliably be proven, especially considering how volatile the region is.

Given how brainwashed the NK people are, supporting the very people starving them to death, about the only way NK would destabilize would be is the Kim family were all killed, or if a rebel army formed out of nowhere. GIven how tightly controlled everything in NK is, that's not likely. With no other countries backing them, if the NK were to try anything, SK could move in and wipe out their army.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

theburningliberal
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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-27 10:24:52 Reply

At 1/27/13 07:07 AM, Korriken wrote: China would still have their back, in the end. NK is one of Chinas trading partners, they're also both authoritarian autocratic governments, and those tend to stick together.

I think for the moment that statement is accurate, although as time goes on it could change. Just because both are authoritarian regimes doesn't mean that they always play well with others, especially considering that NK's actions as of late are putting China in an awkward position with the rest of the world.

Given how brainwashed the NK people are, supporting the very people starving them to death, about the only way NK would destabilize would be is the Kim family were all killed, or if a rebel army formed out of nowhere. GIven how tightly controlled everything in NK is, that's not likely. With no other countries backing them, if the NK were to try anything, SK could move in and wipe out their army.

Even still, there is a very high price to be paid to reintegrate NK into a single Korean state. South Korea is, I think, unwilling or unable to put up that price at the moment, so until the NK government falls apart completely, I don't really think SK is going to do much in terms of taking over NK.

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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-27 13:58:15 Reply

At 1/27/13 10:24 AM, theburningliberal wrote:
At 1/27/13 07:07 AM, Korriken wrote: China would still have their back, in the end. NK is one of Chinas trading partners, they're also both authoritarian autocratic governments, and those tend to stick together.
I think for the moment that statement is accurate, although as time goes on it could change. Just because both are authoritarian regimes doesn't mean that they always play well with others, especially considering that NK's actions as of late are putting China in an awkward position with the rest of the world.

Last thing an autocratic government wants to do is let its people see another autocratic government fall. it gives them ideas. I'm sure there is a line NK can cross to lose China's favor,

Look at the way Russia is STILL supporting the Assad regime. they might not be able to intervene on Assad's behalf militarily, but they can block the UN from taking any action. the UN should have stepped in and toppled the Assad regime early on to prevent jihadists from flocking to the area and using this war to further their own goals. the UN screwed the pooch on that one. China may be in an awkward position, but unless it begins to seriously interfere with their trade, they won't budge.

Even still, there is a very high price to be paid to reintegrate NK into a single Korean state. South Korea is, I think, unwilling or unable to put up that price at the moment, so until the NK government falls apart completely, I don't really think SK is going to do much in terms of taking over NK.

by time NK's government falls apart completely, there won't be anyone there to take over. NK's government is set up in a self perpetuating system. it's ultimately run by the military. kill off one leaders, another will take his place. if the NK invades SK, SK won't have much choice but to move in and destroy NK's army, then one way or another they will have to deal with the NK citizens and their needs.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-29 03:08:14 Reply

North Korea can hardly function as they are now and the stress of a war would cripple them instantly. They have no allies as even China thinks that start too much shit. South Korea alone could kick their ass and if NATO joined in that war wouldn't last a month. If Kim Jong-Un was captured you know he would sign a treaty immediately.


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Response to What's up with N.K? 2013-01-29 10:07:44 Reply

At 1/29/13 03:08 AM, Cootie wrote: North Korea can hardly function as they are now and the stress of a war would cripple them instantly. They have no allies as even China thinks that start too much shit. South Korea alone could kick their ass and if NATO joined in that war wouldn't last a month. If Kim Jong-Un was captured you know he would sign a treaty immediately.

You underestimate a nation that spends all of its resources on military build up, instead of feeding the majority of its population.