End to Affirmative Action?

[NinjaGuy]

There is a case in debate, Fisher vs University of Texas, that is possibly going to determine the ability of colleges to examine and/or make judgement on admissions based on race. Personally, I believe this is necessary, and that judgement should be primarily on family background, such as who if anyone has gone to college/high school in your family, income, and of course, the standard factors that allow admission: GPA, service hours, extra-curricular, awards/merits. How do you feel about this?

[Gimmick]

It's not who you are, but what you do with your life.

[DarkMatter]

Being in college and stuff already I don't really give a shit, but I admit, finding out that as a while male I am the only type of person who has doesn't "have" to be accepted by the university I apply to , was kind of discouraging. From White females to everyone else, theres a certain quota the university has to meet admission wise.

[Otto]

You're very right. Everyone's access should be equalled out - what everyone does with that access is down to how gifted they are and how hard they work.

[generalwinter]

I believe that your abilities should determine your acceptance.

[LionzNTiggerz]

It depends on the point of view...

From the point of view of the university and the other university students, yeah, it's a good idea to accept everybody based on individual merit. As long as there is no discrimination in the system, this works best.

From the wider point of view of society, well...
The question that comes into my mind is this: Why doesn't the demographic of the university population parallel the rest of the population anyway? Is it worth attempting to re-address this balance? Will giving certain groups an artificial advantage at university prove to be an effective tool in the arsenal?

Remember that some sectors of society (e.g. black people) haven't had the same advantages as others, and have been oppressed, etc. So even though some individuals might lose out, it might invest those sectors of society with:
Better education
Higher Aspirations
More money
Etc...

Also: Can society bear the load of accommodating those sectors? A strong society will be able to integrate them, but a weaker society might be better playing to its' strengths first, rather than trying to please everyone.

Then there's the whole thing about how people see different races, and racial equality. There is still a lot of anger because of the oppression of blacks. But I bet Mexicans are just as much of an issue in Texas, and I don't know anything about that really. Have you guys been oppressing Mexicans?!?

[Travis]

At 1/26/13 01:22 PM, LionzNTiggerz wrote: Remember that some sectors of society (e.g. black people) haven't had the same advantages as others, and have been oppressed, etc. So even though some individuals might lose out, it might invest those sectors of society with:
Better education
Higher Aspirations
More money
Etc...

Oh fuck that bullshit.

It's 2013, who gives a flying fuck about race anymore...

Trashy people are trashy people no matter what their ethnicity is. The only thing that should be used to help future students is financial aid for income.

That is fucking it.

[LionzNTiggerz]

At 1/26/13 01:59 PM, Travis wrote: Trashy people are trashy people no matter what their ethnicity is. The only thing that should be used to help future students is financial aid for income.

I was just saying.. what do about less fortunate sectors of society? Trashy people are people too, and doesn't a lot of their trashiness have to do with the conditions in which they grew up? How else do you explain it?

[Scarface]

At 1/26/13 12:24 PM, generalwinter wrote: I believe that your abilities should determine your acceptance.

This.

You shouldn't use completely irrelevant aspects of yourself to gain acceptance to a school.

[BasedBubbus]

At 1/26/13 01:59 PM, Travis wrote:

It's 2013, who gives a flying fuck about race anymore...

are you stupid

[Travis]

At 1/26/13 03:54 PM, TurkeyBased wrote:

At 1/26/13 01:59 PM, Travis wrote:

It's 2013, who gives a flying fuck about race anymore...

are you stupid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3cGfrExozQ

Why racism persists because nobody can shut the fuck up about it.

[NinjaGuy]

At 1/26/13 12:24 PM, generalwinter wrote: I believe that your abilities should determine your acceptance.

obviously, but you can't say one thing determines an ability level, many things do so, extra-curricular, GPA, essays, community service, etc... Therefore it is important to consider factors such as upbringing, and the person in question's ability to overcome various obstacles, mental trauma, lack of income, many things.

[BasedBubbus]

At 1/26/13 05:09 PM, Travis wrote:

At 1/26/13 03:54 PM, TurkeyBased wrote:

At 1/26/13 01:59 PM, Travis wrote:

It's 2013, who gives a flying fuck about race anymore...

are you stupid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3cGfrExozQ

Why racism persists because nobody can shut the fuck up about it.

you cant be serious
you cant be saying that that the way to end racism is to stop talking about it and ignore
it already "doesn't exist" as it is. I know it does. but no one in america will admit to it, unless they're some radical idiot.

[SonicJ]

At 1/26/13 05:09 PM, Travis wrote:
Why racism persists because nobody can shut the fuck up about it.

That is such an intense over-simplification as to why racism exists.
No.

[Travis]

At 1/26/13 11:10 PM, SonicJ wrote:

At 1/26/13 05:09 PM, Travis wrote:
Why racism persists because nobody can shut the fuck up about it.

That is such an intense over-simplification as to why racism exists.
No.

You are an idiot.

Once people can look at everyone as a man or woman and not a black man or black woman, then racism is dead.

Because in the end we are all just humans.

[Sekhem]

At 1/26/13 11:26 PM, Travis wrote:

At 1/26/13 11:10 PM, SonicJ wrote:

At 1/26/13 05:09 PM, Travis wrote:
Why racism persists because nobody can shut the fuck up about it.

That is such an intense over-simplification as to why racism exists.
No.

You are an idiot.

Once people can look at everyone as a man or woman and not a black man or black woman, then racism is dead.

colorblindness is not effective and actually leads to racism (study from harvard)

Because in the end we are all just humans.

an oversimplification and ignorance of culture, SES, history etc

congrats on proving that you're blind to historical injustices faced by other races and would like to smooth over it now that it negatively affects you in the slightest way

[MrPercie]

I think ti should just be for the hard working

im somewhat gifted I guess but lazy as fuck so never really went anywhere, but I knew I could if I tried.

[hecticjon]

affirmative action is prejudice with a fancy name plastered on it

yep

[BumFodder]

Thank fuck I dont live in america where I would have to pay for college and over-priced medical care.

[Sensationalism]

Seems obsolete now anyway.

[ohbombuh]

At 1/27/13 06:37 AM, Austerity wrote: Try not to think about this kind of stuff, even though affirmative action exists you can still increase your skill to the point where you won't be turned down for a job / school.

So why can't minorities do the same?

[NinjaGuy]

At 1/27/13 12:31 PM, ohbombuh wrote:

At 1/27/13 06:37 AM, Austerity wrote: Try not to think about this kind of stuff, even though affirmative action exists you can still increase your skill to the point where you won't be turned down for a job / school.

So why can't minorities do the same?

you're either a troll, or an idiot, cause nobody said anything about a lack of ability based on race. Affirmative action makes it unfair for white men, which most people on this site are, meaning he is expressing a collective difficulty, and way to overcome it, if minorities are given the same level field, then yes, they will have to try harder for spots they were once given, because they were given admissions many of them didn't earn because they are a minority.

[ohbombuh]

At 1/27/13 09:34 PM, NinjaGuy wrote:

At 1/27/13 12:31 PM, ohbombuh wrote:

At 1/27/13 06:37 AM, Austerity wrote: Try not to think about this kind of stuff, even though affirmative action exists you can still increase your skill to the point where you won't be turned down for a job / school.

So why can't minorities do the same?

you're either a troll, or an idiot, cause nobody said anything about a lack of ability based on race.

Too bad affirmative action is given on the basis of race. If you plan to seriously argue it's about historical injustice, why does it apply equally to the descendants of slaves and those who stayed in Africa (to say nothing of other races)? We never had a colony there, so we don't owe them anything.

Affirmative action makes it unfair for white men, which most people on this site are, meaning he is expressing a collective difficulty, and way to overcome it, if minorities are given the same level field, then yes, they will have to try harder for spots they were once given, because they were given admissions many of them didn't earn because they are a minority.

Big surprise: I'm a white guy too. I don't really see why you're trying to argue with me by expanding my point, unless you simply misunderstood it. If the system is that clearly unfair, why should we keep it?