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Make fat people feel ashamed

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Gagsy
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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 15:47:52 Reply

I don't think anyone here has the ability to make me feel more ashamed of myself about my size. All you will reinforce is that I eat more cake with a big 'fuck you'.

Losing weight is something I want to do for me, for my wellbeing, not because I don't want people to be mean anymore. Fuck people.

Want to help a fat person, then actually fucking help them. The most useful thing for me is having people to talk to about my weight and with ideas for living a healthier lifestyle. It really works.

By bullying people, all you will do is either move them closer to fattening foods or to a fucking rope.


[I've been wandering round but I still come back to you]

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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 15:52:27 Reply

i already shame them with my cold hard steve austin looks


I'm an instigator

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Gagsy
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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 15:56:02 Reply

A perfect example, there was a user on here, who would constantly give me shit about my weight. All that did was make me think he was a jerk best to be ignored. Not uncommon, I have a lot of users who give me shit about being fat. Like I said, I usually just write them off as shitty human beings and not take offense when they take a cheap shot at me.

After I decided to lose weight (only because my nan wanted to go to Weight Watchers so I just said I'd join the made a proper go of it), this user got in touch with me and gave me ideas and support which to this day has continued.

He has become the person I normally get in contact with when I have a question about healthier living or am feeling unmotivated and just need that support.

So yeah, that works. Bullying does not.

And like bees said, no one is telling you to have sex with a fat person or even be friends with them if you shamelessly base all values of a person on their appearance. There is no need to be an asshole though and simply disguise it as "I'm just trying to help". You're not helping anyone.


[I've been wandering round but I still come back to you]

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FattyWhale
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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 15:59:16 Reply

At 1/24/13 03:56 PM, Gagsy wrote: You're not helping anyone.

Actually you help everyone if you read my post above.


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Gagsy
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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 16:02:46 Reply

At 1/24/13 03:59 PM, FattyWhale wrote:
Actually you help everyone if you read my post above.

About healthcare cost?

Oh my bad. Its ok to bully fat people because they MIGHT end up needing treatment that is related to their obesity.


[I've been wandering round but I still come back to you]

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Otto
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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 16:04:54 Reply

At 1/24/13 03:47 PM, Gagsy wrote: I don't think anyone here has the ability to make me feel more ashamed of myself about my size. All you will reinforce is that I eat more cake with a big 'fuck you'.

Losing weight is something I want to do for me, for my wellbeing, not because I don't want people to be mean anymore. Fuck people.

Want to help a fat person, then actually fucking help them. The most useful thing for me is having people to talk to about my weight and with ideas for living a healthier lifestyle. It really works.

By bullying people, all you will do is either move them closer to fattening foods or to a fucking rope.

This is much more realistic and I totally agree. I realise that my example of when I was a big big 12 year old doesn't really work, because sadly bullying is the motivator of most things to a 12 year old. I get that's not functional for grown ups, who really need the most help with weight problems.


This is a song about cum on hotel walls.

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Bill-Premo
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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 16:05:17 Reply

At 1/24/13 03:28 PM, FattyWhale wrote:
At 1/24/13 03:22 PM, BPremo wrote: Unless the person is your child or something why should you really care if someone is fat?
I posted this point once but it got lost in a sea of two 15 year olds having an argument in this thread.

A fatter population means healthcare costs will go up. Think about how many illnesses people have that could have probably been prevented with a health lifestyle. Type 2 diabetes, heart disease, etc. These are largely preventable conditions, yet probably billions are spent in the US alone treating them. It's a waste of time and money for society to have to deal with an overly obese population.

Without obesity doctors and researchers could spend more time finding cures for less-preventable diseases (cancer, HIV, etc.).

I don't know very much about the exact inner workings of healthcare, but what you say is pretty true.

There is an issue with treating obese people, I've heard cases where doctors refuse to have fat patients because they are higher risk and the doctors don't want to get sued.

But there is a gray area between an obese person who is by choice, is only slightly overweight, someone who is overweight but no history of illness, using body mass index as the official judge of being fat, or an obese person who is obese due to genetic vulnerability or other medical reasons and how to very cleanly and exactly define it and label it without people crying discrimination.

Should healthcare or insurance deny me treatment because I was born with a heart condition and it would cost them too much to treat me? At this point I'd like to hear from this topic because you've made a good point and this is the only real rational reason why fat people effect others in any real way.

Gagsy
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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 16:14:24 Reply

If we're going to bully and stop medical treatment for those that are fat then surely we need to do the same for alcoholics. AA meetings which try to help that person? No no. They're a dirty drunk and we should tell them that right, not try to support them.

And fuck if they need a new liver or get one of the very damaging long term effects caused by consuming too much alcohol over a long period. They brought it onto themselves by not choosing to live a healthier life right.


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Saen
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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 16:26:24 Reply

At 1/24/13 12:48 PM, jjjkuk wrote:
Truth hurts. These twats that managed to become obese have a mental problem and need force to help themselves.

Being overweight is a physical condition, not a mental one. There are some psychological conditions that may contribute to becoming obese however.

If your argument is that they need force to help themselves. Now they wouldn't really be losing weight on their own initiative now would they?

When I teach people how to play golf and swing a club properly, I don't yell or ridicule them if they make a mistake, I don't get frustrated with them, nor do I tell them that their swing is just atrocious. I encourage them, praise their progress and uniqueness, and stay patient and keep a cool head. In my opinion as well as most others, that method of teaching is much more effective than the first, or what psychology labels as "negative reinforcement."

FattyWhale
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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 16:27:43 Reply

At 1/24/13 04:05 PM, BPremo wrote: But there is a gray area between an obese person who is by choice, is only slightly overweight, someone who is overweight but no history of illness, using body mass index as the official judge of being fat, or an obese person who is obese due to genetic vulnerability or other medical reasons and how to very cleanly and exactly define it and label it without people crying discrimination.

Genetic problems will be discovered and addressed as time goes on. Current research shows that only about 6% of morbidly obese children and adults have a gene that causes them to poorly regulate their food intake.

Should healthcare or insurance deny me treatment because I was born with a heart condition and it would cost them too much to treat me?

I haven't done much research on the subject, so I'm not the best source here. It is my understanding though, that most patients who are refused medical care for whatever condition they have are refused because of risk involved with treating them, not direct cost. Doctors/Hospitals are concerned that if a high-risk surgery or treatment results in death, they could be held liable. Insurance is another issue, of which I have little knowledge.

At 1/24/13 04:02 PM, Gagsy wrote: About healthcare cost?

Oh my bad. Its ok to bully fat people because they MIGHT end up needing treatment that is related to their obesity.

Before I go and find sources to prove you wrong... is your point that the trend between increasing obesity rates and the increase in preventable diseases is negligible?

At 1/24/13 04:14 PM, Gagsy wrote: If we're going to bully and stop medical treatment for those that are fat then surely we need to do the same for alcoholics. AA meetings which try to help that person? No no. They're a dirty drunk and we should tell them that right, not try to support them.

Surely obese people will need support in losing weight. The problem is that obese people today (most) aren't convinced to lose weight due to their dramatically shortened lifespan, so societal changes need to happen. Sadly, obesity is just accepted, and people make up excuses for why they don't lose weight. Being an alcoholic is frowned upon, but that doesn't mean you can't get support for this problem.

And fuck if they need a new liver or get one of the very damaging long term effects caused by consuming too much alcohol over a long period. They brought it onto themselves by not choosing to live a healthier life right.

In terms of organ transplants, absolutely. Donor organs are in extreme shortage, and someone who has a genetic reason to need a new liver should absolutely get it before an alcoholic with sclerosis.


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Otto
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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 16:31:54 Reply

At 1/24/13 04:26 PM, Saen wrote:
At 1/24/13 12:48 PM, jjjkuk wrote:
Truth hurts. These twats that managed to become obese have a mental problem and need force to help themselves.
Being overweight is a physical condition, not a mental one. There are some psychological conditions that may contribute to becoming obese however.

Actually being overweight is a physical result of a mental condition i.e. the addiction and constant desire for the short-term relief and happiness that eating brings you. Eating releases endorphins, which is the main part that anyone goes back to anything. Same reasons anyone gets addicted to anything - the ups and the downs and the way the brain is shaped around them after exposure to that pattern.

I mean condition with a lower-case c here.

When I teach people how to play golf and swing a club properly, I don't yell or ridicule them if they make a mistake, I don't get frustrated with them, nor do I tell them that their swing is just atrocious. I encourage them, praise their progress and uniqueness, and stay patient and keep a cool head. In my opinion as well as most others, that method of teaching is much more effective than the first, or what psychology labels as "negative reinforcement."

Have you ever seen A Clockwork Orange?


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Saen
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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 16:41:06 Reply

At 1/24/13 04:31 PM, Otto wrote:
Actually being overweight is a physical result of a mental condition i.e. the addiction and constant desire for the short-term relief and happiness that eating brings you. Eating releases endorphins, which is the main part that anyone goes back to anything. Same reasons anyone gets addicted to anything - the ups and the downs and the way the brain is shaped around them after exposure to that pattern.

I mean condition with a lower-case c here.

By that argument you should also be able to say that all people who are not addicted to eating food are not overweight. Obviously that is not the case at all. Environment (food), genetics, psychological conditions all contribute to obesity, to tackle all of those issues with just a social change driven by negative reinforcement is not the answer nor a sole solution.

That's why obesity is an issue, which at first glance may be quite similar, but indeed very different than smoking.


Have you ever seen A Clockwork Orange?

Nope.

Gagsy
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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 16:45:26 Reply

Let me break it down for you then I'm done with this dance.

It had been proven time and time again that the most effective way of helping people to lose weight long term is through support.

Either by them losing weight/getting fitting with a friend, attending weight loss meetings, logging with one of the numerous weight tracking sites, visiting a dietitian. Whatever It has proven to work better than someone going it alone.

All you do by bullying fat people and belittling their very existence and worth is make them feel more isolated, alone and ultimately helpless to change themselves.

So if you REALLY want to help fat people because you're worried about the healthcare industry then actually help them by offering support to them. Be their workout buddy, their motivation helper. I promise you it works so much more than bullying ever ever could.

And if you just want to bully fat people then congratulations you're a dick.


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Sekhem
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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 16:48:28 Reply

if you can't be fat and OWN it, then you should kill yourself or lose weight

i am all for this


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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 16:48:47 Reply

Everyone has their vices; fat people can live how they please.

Saen
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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 16:49:06 Reply

At 1/24/13 04:45 PM, Gagsy wrote:
It had been proven time and time again that the most effective way of helping people to lose weight long term is through support.

You're exactly right. As much as I dislike the subject, the field of psychology has already done research and explained the concepts of the effectiveness of positive reinforcement.

FattyWhale
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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 16:52:49 Reply

At 1/24/13 04:45 PM, Gagsy wrote: It had been proven time and time again that the most effective way of helping people to lose weight long term is through support.

Either by them losing weight/getting fitting with a friend, attending weight loss meetings, logging with one of the numerous weight tracking sites, visiting a dietitian. Whatever It has proven to work better than someone going it alone.

I don't think we're on the same page here. The physical act of losing weight is certainly easier in a social environment. That has been proven, yes. The impetus to lose weight is just not there currently.


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Gagsy
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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 16:55:40 Reply

At 1/24/13 04:52 PM, FattyWhale wrote:
I don't think we're on the same page here. The physical act of losing weight is certainly easier in a social environment. That has been proven, yes. The impetus to lose weight is just not there currently.

Its always there really. By bullying I promise you just bury it further.

Show someone support and they will show you a desire to better themselves.


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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 16:57:12 Reply

At 1/24/13 04:55 PM, Gagsy wrote:
At 1/24/13 04:52 PM, FattyWhale wrote:
I don't think we're on the same page here. The physical act of losing weight is certainly easier in a social environment. That has been proven, yes. The impetus to lose weight is just not there currently.
Its always there really. By bullying I promise you just bury it further.

Show someone support and they will show you a desire to better themselves.

that's just a sob story and an excuse

weight loss has nothing to do with emotions

get your lazy ass out of the house or eat less, pick one


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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 16:59:24 Reply

At 1/24/13 04:41 PM, Saen wrote:
At 1/24/13 04:31 PM, Otto wrote:
Actually being overweight is a physical result of a mental condition i.e. the addiction and constant desire for the short-term relief and happiness that eating brings you. Eating releases endorphins, which is the main part that anyone goes back to anything. Same reasons anyone gets addicted to anything - the ups and the downs and the way the brain is shaped around them after exposure to that pattern.

I mean condition with a lower-case c here.
By that argument you should also be able to say that all people who are not addicted to eating food are not overweight. Obviously that is not the case at all. Environment (food), genetics, psychological conditions all contribute to obesity, to tackle all of those issues with just a social change driven by negative reinforcement is not the answer nor a sole solution.

No, you've gotten it backwards. Causality doesn't work both ways. Just because something is a result of something, does not make it the only way to get that result.

You are not fit to make a case.


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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 17:04:12 Reply

I think we as a nation just need to be healthier. Just because someone's skinny doesn't mean they're healthy.


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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 17:08:51 Reply

At 1/24/13 04:57 PM, Sekhem wrote:
that's just a sob story and an excuse

weight loss has nothing to do with emotions

get your lazy ass out of the house or eat less, pick one

I know from personal experience that weight problems can have a lot to do with emotions. Call it an excuse if you want but I've lived it. If your mindset isn't there then its not as simple as getting out and exercising or eating loss. Yes that is what you need to do but its so hard to when you don't want to go out and be seen and when food is one of the only comforts you have.

I've experienced that, I know how it feels and I know that bullying people into doing those things without actually supporting them will not work long term.


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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 17:09:13 Reply

At 1/24/13 04:59 PM, Otto wrote:
No, you've gotten it backwards. Causality doesn't work both ways. Just because something is a result of something, does not make it the only way to get that result.

You are not fit to make a case.

Now a perfectly reasonable discussion dives into an argument over diction and scenarios, no counter to the main ideas I've presented.

Positive reinforcement is more effective in driving most people to a certain goal than negative reinforcement.

Obesity is not solely nor predominately a psychological or social issue, it is predominately a environmental and physical health issue. This is why we see countries such as the U.S. with the highest obesity proportions and amounts. The U.S. population is not known to be overweight because of a predominate food addiction, but because of the types and portions of meals. I.E. environment > psychological conditions in terms of contribution to obesity.

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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 17:18:09 Reply

I'm not fat, but in any event, obesity is already highly stigmatized. To take that stigma to a higher level isn't really going to help solve our country's obesity problems.

Fat people will continue to exist no matter what. It's true that many people out there are fat because of their unhealthy eating and drinking habits as well as their slow metabolisms. Also, let's not forget that there are also a significant number of people that have a lot of extra weight as a result of their medication's side effects. I certainly don't think they should have to walk around being made fun of.

Just leaving them alone is truly the best way to go. There are natural consequences to drinking and eating all the wrong things (as well as doing the wrong drugs, as I'm sure druggies can attest to) and being obese for far too long. Anyone that wants to avoid those natural consequences can do so with just the right amount of knowledge, support and working hard at it. Then there are those people that just don't give a fuck, and that's fine too--we shouldn't give a fuck either.

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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 18:09:24 Reply

Under most circumstances, I don't care how other people take care of themselves, but this is one rare occasion where I think it's ok to push people to do something they don't want to do. When they fatten up and become as extremely unfit as so many people are, it doesn't just affect them and their families, it affects everyone.


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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 19:51:54 Reply

jjjkuk please stop posting.


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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 19:56:48 Reply

This guy is still calling fat people "people" but he's forgetting that they are people.


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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 20:26:46 Reply

It's 20 times harder to lose weight than to quit smoking.
Fat people know they're fat. They're not stupid. They feel bad in their bodies all day long and I doubt they need any extra shaming by other people who may have no idea what it's like to have bad genetics, habits etc.

A bunch of you shits are tiny little twiggy teenagers who know just as little about nutrition and health as a typical fatass. You think you have any right to shame others who basically pay the exact same attention as you do to their health, except they have worse genetics or different habits?

The only people who need shaming are those idiot pro-fat acceptance women ( they're all women and sexually deviant men). They lumber around with 150 pounds of extra bacon grease sloshing around their arteries talking about how it's just as possibly to be healthy when you're a crisco blob as when you're a triathlete. NO. Shut your mouths. The increased risk of cancer ALONE moots any dumbass "fit fat' argument they have.

If you're overweight, it's really bad and really a shame and I empathize with you and having been there, I know you already feel enough shame for two people, you don't need any extra bullshit. You need fat camps.


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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 20:27:37 Reply

If it was up to me, I'd have fat people shot in front of their families.


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Response to Make fat people feel ashamed 2013-01-24 20:42:35 Reply

Fat people are either genetically inferior, lazy, or just eat everything in sight.

Whether or not being fat is their fault, they should be targeted and killed swiftly.


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