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Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop

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WadeFulp
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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 21st, 2013 @ 11:19 PM

We have been looking into alternative voting systems that may help cut down on any potential fraud. Can someone post some links to tracks that you felt were 0 bombed by this guy so they wouldn't compete with him in the listing?


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Teqneek
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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 21st, 2013 @ 11:24 PM

At 1/21/13 11:13 PM, BrokenDeck wrote: I can't believe you guys are bringing up this shit again.

Liljim pretty much tried his best to clear this up last time and it's still not enough for you guys?

NO. This is a simple fix and it wasn't fixed.


Everyone has said time and time again that there are other ways rather than the "charts" to get exposure.

I know, I'm talking about newer users more than seasoned vets.

Do you honestly not see the problem man? Really? Please read the statements I made in this thread (or if anything, my last one), and if you don't completely understand why this had to be brought back up for discussion then I don't know what else to say.

Teqneek
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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 21st, 2013 @ 11:26 PM

At 1/21/13 11:19 PM, WadeFulp wrote: We have been looking into alternative voting systems that may help cut down on any potential fraud. Can someone post some links to tracks that you felt were 0 bombed by this guy so they wouldn't compete with him in the listing?

Sure, let me forward this message to a few people who can show you what we mean. Thanks!

WadeFulp
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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 21st, 2013 @ 11:32 PM

At 1/21/13 11:26 PM, Teqneek wrote:
At 1/21/13 11:19 PM, WadeFulp wrote: We have been looking into alternative voting systems that may help cut down on any potential fraud. Can someone post some links to tracks that you felt were 0 bombed by this guy so they wouldn't compete with him in the listing?
Sure, let me forward this message to a few people who can show you what we mean. Thanks!

While you work on some examples of entries that you feel he voted down, I'll ask this... Has the Hip Hop community banded together to vote 0 on his entries if you feel they aren't worthy of their current position and voted 5 on others to bring them up? If you didn't know, this is how NG works. This is why we have the experience system that increases the power of your votes. Stupid crap is always finding its way into the Flash Portal's Top 50 of all time, but it's quickly voted back down by the users.


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Teqneek
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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 21st, 2013 @ 11:47 PM

At 1/21/13 11:32 PM, WadeFulp wrote:
At 1/21/13 11:26 PM, Teqneek wrote:
At 1/21/13 11:19 PM, WadeFulp wrote: We have been looking into alternative voting systems that may help cut down on any potential fraud. Can someone post some links to tracks that you felt were 0 bombed by this guy so they wouldn't compete with him in the listing?
Sure, let me forward this message to a few people who can show you what we mean. Thanks!
While you work on some examples of entries that you feel he voted down, I'll ask this... Has the Hip Hop community banded together to vote 0 on his entries if you feel they aren't worthy of their current position and voted 5 on others to bring them up? If you didn't know, this is how NG works. This is why we have the experience system that increases the power of your votes. Stupid crap is always finding its way into the Flash Portal's Top 50 of all time, but it's quickly voted back down by the users.

Honestly, the hip hop community here isn't strong enough to do much about it, and I don't go around zeroing people's songs just because they zeroed mine. That's just me though; I don't care if other people do it I guess.

There are only a few examples of my songs that have clearly been screwed with, but I'm mainly speaking for others, and they'll show you what they mean soon. I'll gather links from them and post them up here tomorrow so you have a one-stop, comprehensive list.

But really, this is a clear cause for reprimand if I've ever seen one. DJ Ses runs both of the accounts you see dominating that page, and the zero bots/5 bots are seriously bad news when it comes to site growth. New members won't stick around if their stuff gets disrespected like that with no explanation, and that sucks.

WadeFulp
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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 21st, 2013 @ 11:49 PM

At 1/21/13 11:47 PM, Teqneek wrote: There are only a few examples of my songs that have clearly been screwed with,

Links?


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Teqneek
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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 21st, 2013 @ 11:53 PM

Here's one, lol.

  • Fat Beats & Teq- Legacy
    Fat Beats & Teq- Legacy by Teqneek

    New collab. Listen or perish in a pit of lava.

    Score
    1.18 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Hip Hop - Modern
    Popularity
    575 Views

jpbear
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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 12:05 AM

At 1/21/13 11:19 PM, WadeFulp wrote: We have been looking into alternative voting systems that may help cut down on any potential fraud.

good to know :)

BrokenDeck
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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 12:05 AM

At 1/21/13 11:53 PM, Teqneek wrote: Here's one, lol.
http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/508172

How does one equate to a "few"?

Please provide more links...

midimachine
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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 12:08 AM

anyone else who feels that this is a problem should post links to affected songs (that they didnt make themselves), too


p.s. i am gay

Teqneek
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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 12:13 AM

At 1/22/13 12:05 AM, BrokenDeck wrote:
At 1/21/13 11:53 PM, Teqneek wrote: Here's one, lol.
http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/508172
How does one equate to a "few"?

Please provide more links...

BrokenDeck, you normally seem cool, but are you just cherry picking through my posts? Did you read what I said just then?

Anyway, I was going to compile a list to post all at once, but I'll go ahead and ask that people start posting their own links to tampered songs.

Dude chill out BD, we're handling this. Give it til tomorrow, as it's getting late for many of us. I'm for one am going to bed.

krssvr
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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 12:28 AM

I had a song that made it to the hip hop modern front page, it was doing great then it got bombed i was like oh well this happens so I up-voted myself to see if I can get some more "real" votes and enjoy my 15 minutes of front page fame but what I noticed is that every time my song creeped onto the front page I found myself falling significantly within the next day by a voter with significant influence.

Everyone who says the hip-hop listings is obscure is right, however thanks to it I was getting a download for every 10 listeners (more than I get now that I'm lost within pages of submissions). The scores usually level out after a while that much is true but this is anything but a natural balancing effect like it is for most other genres.


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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 12:30 AM

At 1/22/13 12:13 AM, Teqneek wrote: BrokenDeck, you normally seem cool, but are you just cherry picking through my posts? Did you read what I said just then?

I've read through this entire thread, and all the past ones that have been posted regarding this issue.

Has it occurred to anyone that the accused MIGHT be up-voting only his OWN stuff on a regular basis, and NOT 0-bombing everyone else's on a regular basis?

TBH that seems more likely, because it's a well known fact that everyone gets 0-bombed, regardless of whether their music is in the Hip Hop modern chart or not.

Don't you think your perception of how your own song is getting 0-bombed might be skewed? It looks like the song you posted isn't getting more 0 votes than usual than any other song.

Chemich
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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 02:41 AM

Heh, when mainstream tactics hit personal communities... so predictable.


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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 03:01 AM

I like the way the voting system can work in favour of talented artists, but when this sort of shit happens it taints the whole process. Yes, yes, I get it, "It's happened to other genres portals blah blah". So why is it still happening? I also get that it seems kind of a difficult fix when you can't pin point who exactly is the issue, but you have to try for the sake of artistic integrity, surely, unless that stopped being the point around here and nobody told me.

Anyway, here's an example for you. A while back people were getting riled about this whole thing so Kill Bill made this humorous diss track. Give it a listen and tell me it doesn't deserve a better score than that.

  • Kill Bill- MOSES 2
    Kill Bill- MOSES 2 by KillBillvolume2

    The outcome is obvious. Why do you still stand?

    Score
    1.20 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Hip Hop - Modern
    Popularity
    1,060 Views

Appreciate Mr. Fulp coming along, even though this will likely not lead to anything it shows that some of the staff do give a fuck.

AxTekk
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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 03:02 AM

Audio that I am very very confident people will find was zero bombed by Ses and his RMP alts:

Bill's diss:

  • Kill Bill- MOSES 2
    Kill Bill- MOSES 2 by KillBillvolume2

    The outcome is obvious. Why do you still stand?

    Score
    1.20 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Hip Hop - Modern
    Popularity
    1,060 Views

Most of the stuff from Mark's tourney which he mistakenly posted in Modern:

  • DTT - Wyze Sucks (TK)
    DTT - Wyze Sucks (TK) by mjohnson00

    TK dissing Wyze Stingray

    Score
    0.21 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Hip Hop - Modern
    Popularity
    465 Views
  • DTT - TKO (Wyze)
    DTT - TKO (Wyze) by mjohnson00

    Wyze Stingray dissing TK

    Score
    0.18 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Hip Hop - Modern
    Popularity
    432 Views
  • MC BoB vs E.vo
    MC BoB vs E.vo by mjohnson00

    Hip Hop Rap Battle

    Score
    1.62 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Hip Hop - Modern
    Popularity
    232 Views

The first few beats I myself posted in Modern:

  • Rip Dum - AxTekk
    Rip Dum - AxTekk by AxTekk

    Beat for Clabtrap

    Score
    1.34 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Hip Hop - Modern
    Popularity
    165 Views
  • BWHUT
    BWHUT by AxTekk

    Something Different

    Score
    1.09 / 5.00
    Type
    Song
    Genre
    Hip Hop - Modern
    Popularity
    130 Views

I'm sure there's more, but I'm off to work in a sec and I'm going off the dome with the one's that lately made everyone WTF.

Also, mods: what's with the apathy? All of us are Soundcloud heads too, we all network with each other and promote our stuff hard on the rest of the net, we just think we should be able to hear new artists by checking out the modern page like we are the olskool page, which just doesn't happen anymore, seriously ask anyone. To be honest, I'm quite surprised the mods don't feel the same. It's not like Ses is a saint in all over respects, he samples copyrighted material and has been in like the longest ever flamewar with Lejin.

Not ragging on you guys at all, I get you're volunteers with a lot on your plate, but I can't help but think that if anyone should care about the voting system being abused so rankly, it should be you.

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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 03:10 AM

At 1/22/13 12:30 AM, BrokenDeck wrote: TBH that seems more likely, because it's a well known fact that everyone gets 0-bombed, regardless of whether their music is in the Hip Hop modern chart or not.

Don't you think your perception of how your own song is getting 0-bombed might be skewed? It looks like the song you posted isn't getting more 0 votes than usual than any other song.

Sorry for double posting, and I'm not going to just get pedantic and pick apart everything the mods say, but 121 votes is not normal for a hiphop modern song (at least one that hasn't taken Ses's fancy to either 0 or 5 the hell out of). Check the matching downloads if you don't believe me, the hiphop charts and modern in particular don't get attract much attention, and so the votes and downloads generally hang around the 50/20 range. No problem there lol, just saying so you guys get some idea of the norm on that chart.

BrokenDeck
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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 05:34 AM

At 1/22/13 03:02 AM, AxTekk wrote: It's not like Ses is a saint in all over respects, he samples copyrighted material and...

Please post that in the Audio Portal Cleanup Thread, as well as a link to the original copyrighted song / sample that you recognized.

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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 08:08 AM

It does look like something fishy is going on. We have ideas on how to reduce this kind of thing in the future, but we have limited options for dealing with it right now. We could ban Ses and remove his submissions, but that won't undo the 0 voting that has already happened, and depending on what he's doing he may continue to 0 bomb things even if we remove him.


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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 08:44 AM

At 1/21/13 11:13 PM, BrokenDeck wrote:
Everyone has said time and time again that there are other ways rather than the "charts" to get exposure.

I don't think the main issue here is people not getting exposure. I just remember coming on the charts on NG (as a fan of music) and seeing a vast variety of good artists in the charts. Now it's quite literally one dude. I wouldn't give a damn if he made the best music on the planet, its still whack.

So let's run through the motions.

>A bunch of people see a legitimate problem
>A bunch of people are concerned about it
>Opinions are voiced

So now we're supposed to quit our "bitching" because there's a blatantly obvious problem, and no ones done anything about it? lol, k. Because that mentality is obviously the best way to make a website better.

I'm not trying to sound disrespectful to anyone here. It's all love, on this end. Just as a general fan of the music that floats around newgrounds, some fuckery is afoot.

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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 08:51 AM

I don't see any sort of point as to why Teqneek is being ganged up on. I, however, do agree with the moderators, I don't see why Teqneek started this, or why we're even here, when its clear nothing is ever going to be done. We're stuck in a world currently where the person covering the entire Hip Hop charts is constantly blasting Newgrounds, and I don't ever see a fix anytime soon. Maybe if we were DubStep and not Hip-Hop, but we're not DubStep/Trance/Techno, we're Hip-Hop.

I also wanna note out that posting sampled/copyrighted tracks in the moderator's forums, does nothing. I complained on Lejin almost a year ago, maybe a year and a half, and he was banned for all of 1 day. I assume MindChamber unbanned him, not sure where the corruption lies, but it does lie within somewhere. I'm usually the last person to even "snitch" on dudes, but it seems to be the only to fix the problems. Until I did indeed try snitching, and what did I get for it? Absolutely nothing. I got called out by Lejin's group of thugs and was harassed and laughed at, after his ban was lifted. Ax Tekk, I warn you, do NOT post TheEyeOfMusik's copyrighted tracks into that forum, as it will do nothing. He will simply be unbanned, and you will be harassed by his brigade of 0-bombers/proxie-bots even worse than you are now.

Look, moderators and administrators, if you want links to tracks that deserve to be on the top page infront of the tracks that currently are, just visit Page 2 and down and look through every artist that isn't TheEyeOfMusik or RealMuzikProductions, I'm not gonna give you links, I'm not gonna do your job for you. We've voice our complaints on this subject too many times to waste our time any further. I've personally hosted tournaments on this site, and I feel especially in the past month, I myself have brought enough traffic to this site to be able to say, either fix the problem or we're gone. I don't know why I would put myself on the line, advertising your website, when you don't even care in the slightest about the Hip Hop side of the portal. Its pointless, and honestly, it just makes me look bad.

You moderators and administrators can quote me with your ignorant sarcastic remarks and pretty much poke fun at everything I've said, as you have with Teqneek, but I won't be back to respond. The minute this current tournament I'm hosting is over, will be the last hosted on Newgrounds if something isn't done about this soon. Like I said, I can't keep bringing traffic to a website that doesn't seem to care about it, doesn't care about our voice/opinions, and just continues to make me look foolish.

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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 08:55 AM

"Im gonna pop some tags, got moderators in my pocket" - DJ Ses - Thrift Shop remix. COMING SOON!

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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 08:56 AM

At 1/22/13 08:08 AM, WadeFulp wrote: It does look like something fishy is going on. We have ideas on how to reduce this kind of thing in the future, but we have limited options for dealing with it right now. We could ban Ses and remove his submissions, but that won't undo the 0 voting that has already happened, and depending on what he's doing he may continue to 0 bomb things even if we remove him.

Sorry for the double post, but I had just seen this. If you honestly cannot do anything RIGHT NOW to fix the issue, then PM me and let me know when the issue is resolved. I'll be visiting this website still for other music from friends from time-to-time, but not being able to fix the issue doesn't solve the problem, and the problem is a big deal to me. If that's true though, then my complaining has no point to it, and like I said, just pass me a PM when the problem is fixed.

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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 09:14 AM

At 1/21/13 11:13 PM, BrokenDeck wrote: I can't believe you guys are bringing up this shit again.

Liljim pretty much tried his best to clear this up last time and it's still not enough for you guys?

Everyone has said time and time again that there are other ways rather than the "charts" to get exposure.

Also, we already have a place for these type of complaints.

I'd also like to point out, that pretty much saying "Fuck you guys it'll level itself out." doesn't clear anything up. Look, its been months and it never leveled itself out. Liljim's entire paragraph was useless, and he wasted his time, because even saying that it would level itself out at that moment in time, showed how ignorant he was to the situation in itself. Its almost as if he didn't even look at how many months DJ Ses had already been at the top of the charts, and how many times we DID try to take matters into our own hands.

I could've sworn someone came in here and said "derp did you guys try to upvote the good submissions derp" and if I remember correctly, you all told us last time to not do that, because its abusing the system. You know what? We did anyway, and it didn't work.

As far as your last line there, this is like one giant pointless back'n'forth. We say "It isn't about exposure, its about new dudes getting their stuff on the charts so WE can find NEW, GOOD, music the way we're supposed to be able too." and you just keep saying "OTHER WAYS TO GET EXPOSURE, OTHER WAYS" I mean, come on.. its like nobody is reading what we're even saying here..

I appreciate Wade at least coming in and saying something. That's about it, at this point there are very few moderators that I even have respect for.

midimachine
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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 09:42 AM

At 1/22/13 08:55 AM, BraidzMC wrote: "Im gonna pop some tags, got moderators in my pocket" - DJ Ses - Thrift Shop remix. COMING SOON!

hah, i wish.
if i got paid to not give a fuck i'd be a very wealthy man


p.s. i am gay

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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 09:46 AM

Mark, like i've always recommended. Youtube should be the portal for the tourney.
Fuck these guys. They obviously don't care. Plus, if it's on youtube you can post it to pretty much every forum. Which means FOLLOWING!

DJDela
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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 10:08 AM

I don't see the problem, just remove his music from the list.

BraidzMC
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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 10:26 AM

But really though, IRL im just a giant grey troll who sits behind a keyboard and causes internet warfare.

gavkay21
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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 10:27 AM

Honestly don't blame people for moving away from the audio portal. This place has a lot of potential to be a better music outlet than soundcloud imo it just needs to pushed in the right direction but all i see is a lack of giving a fuck about the audio portal.

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Response to Dj Ses Is Ruining Ng Hip Hop Jan. 22nd, 2013 @ 10:51 AM

Why not have a Like/Dislike kind of system where you can only vote once? o:

Just an idea.


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