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1 thing that pisses me of about SSB

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kRaZyAzN
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Response to 1 thing that pisses me of about SSB 2013-02-12 16:57:08 Reply

At 2/11/13 11:04 PM, BigBadtheBazz wrote:
At 1/20/13 02:47 PM, LemonCrush wrote: Your friends are faggots if they only play no items/final destination
more like tourney fags, but yeah.

DURRR, anyone who likes to play smash without janky, imbalanced items and stages is a tourney fag. HURRRR


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LemonCrush
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Response to 1 thing that pisses me of about SSB 2013-02-12 17:52:58 Reply

At 2/12/13 04:57 PM, kRaZyAzN wrote: DURRR, anyone who likes to play smash without janky, imbalanced items and stages is a tourney fag. HURRRR

Actually people who play without items, on platformless/eventless stages are just overall bad players.

You see, the skill of a player in any competitive game is measured by how well he can adapt and counter unpredictable/undesirable situations. Tourney fags in Smash avoid the actual skill part of the game because they suck. The items and stages aren't unbalanced if BOTH players have to deal with them.

If you lose because of stage design or items, guess what? It's not the game's fault, you just suck at playing the game. When you play poker, do you remove face cards and aces because they're "unbalanced" too? lol

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Response to 1 thing that pisses me of about SSB 2013-02-12 23:17:48 Reply

Yeah I agree tourneyfags are fucking terrible.

Look at these tryhards they know nothing about being any good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBGffJfBkd0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBMgkr-s4jI

What the fuck do they know?

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Response to 1 thing that pisses me of about SSB 2013-02-13 13:55:36 Reply

At 2/13/13 02:59 AM, BigBadtheBazz wrote: I don't get SSB tourneyfags. I fucking LOVE big blue, and if you have a problem, then try and stop falling off the fucking
f-zero cars and dieing you fuck.Jesus.

I love jumping off the cars and trying to run to catch up to them. It's pretty fun


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Response to 1 thing that pisses me of about SSB 2013-02-14 12:29:52 Reply

At 2/10/13 10:57 PM, tsukikomi wrote: If you want items/bullshit stages so bad then go back to mario party where you belong. Smash is a sport/fighting game theres no way around it.

notsureifsrs

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Response to 1 thing that pisses me of about SSB 2013-02-14 17:33:25 Reply

Whatever, I always try to avoid Final Destination.


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Response to 1 thing that pisses me of about SSB 2013-02-15 16:56:53 Reply

At 2/10/13 10:57 PM, tsukikomi wrote: If you want items/bullshit stages so bad then go back to mario party where you belong. Smash is a sport/fighting game theres no way around it.

But the items/stage hazards are there, and they're the default. This "sport/fighting game" you're talking about is an alternative option that's thoughtfully been made available for people who want a more austere experience (for some reason), but the game clearly isn't "meant" to be played that way.

It's flat-out silly to be sneering at people for playing a game with most of its default settings intact. They're the defaults for a reason.

At 2/12/13 05:52 PM, LemonCrush wrote: You see, the skill of a player in any competitive game is measured by how well he can adapt and counter unpredictable/undesirable situations.

I haven't really thought about it from that angle before, but this is a good point. Maybe items and stage hazards aren't at the core of the Smash Bros experience (I'd argue that they are, but whatever), but they are part of the game, and anyone who wants to call themselves "skilled" at it should be prepared for that eventuality.

The items and stages aren't unbalanced if BOTH players have to deal with them.

In fact, I'd say that if anything they're more balanced, because the chance of picking up a powerful item or your opponent getting caught on a hazard gives less experienced players a better opportunity to get points on the board.

When you play poker, do you remove face cards and aces because they're "unbalanced" too? lol

Heh, I like this analogy. I'm gonna have to use it the next time someone pipes up about a game being "unbalanced."

At 2/13/13 02:59 AM, BigBadtheBazz wrote: I fucking LOVE big blue

Yeah, it's one of my favorite stages, but all my friends hate it so we never play there. It's really not that hard to pay attention to where you're jumping, you guys, it actually makes it more dynamic and fun! I mean fuck.


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Response to 1 thing that pisses me of about SSB 2013-02-15 17:31:03 Reply

At 2/15/13 04:56 PM, Dr-Worm wrote: I haven't really thought about it from that angle before, but this is a good point. Maybe items and stage hazards aren't at the core of the Smash Bros experience (I'd argue that they are, but whatever), but they are part of the game, and anyone who wants to call themselves "skilled" at it should be prepared for that eventuality.

I mean, there are some games like Chess, where the pieces and rules are static. And that's fine, but you you also have games that are skill based, but also have a big luck component as well. Games like Magic the Gathering, or Poker....take immense skill but luck also plays a big part in the game. Smash is no different.

In fact, I'd say that if anything they're more balanced, because the chance of picking up a powerful item or your opponent getting caught on a hazard gives less experienced players a better opportunity to get points on the board.

Well, yeah. I mean, there are things that are OP, or can be exploited. I used to play Magic the Gathering and that game is filled with loopholes and exploits...and when it makes the game not fun (turn one kills, every deck being the same), they ban a card. In Smash you do have OP things, like Meta Knight. And probably a couple stages too. I have no problem with altering the game in those aspects, as the designers did not intend or anticipate a certain interaction or strategy.

Smash is made to be played with items. That's part of the game, and players should have to deal with it as it comes. If you want a serious itemless game, there are plenty of fighting games that are designed to not have items, like Street Fighter.

Heh, I like this analogy. I'm gonna have to use it the next time someone pipes up about a game being "unbalanced."

When people talk about "unbalanced" in smash, they don't know what they're talking about. They actually mean "I don't know how to interact with components of the game". These people would be horrible at chess because the queen is "unbalanced"

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Response to 1 thing that pisses me of about SSB 2013-02-15 22:01:14 Reply

At 1/19/13 03:31 PM, Wegra wrote: I'm sure this has been done before but you ever notice everytime you play SSBB with friends they ALWAYS choose final destination. Seriously all the fucking time even when it's just for fun. I mean do people realize the whole point of SSBB is to pick your favorite Nintendo characters and fight in stage hazard filled environments? Seriously what's the fucking point

I just hate it when i be Ike and then everyone else just plays as him because i do.

Anyway bitching aside what's your favorite breakfast meal?

BACON!!!!!!


chaos GAMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Response to 1 thing that pisses me of about SSB 2013-02-16 03:20:12 Reply

Some people think that Final Destination is better because you can't rely on anything else than skills (because dealing with the hazards is totally not about skills, DUH!). That's also why some people don't like to play with items either.

The way I like to play it is on pretty much any stage, but without items. Dealing with the hazards of the level makes it pretty much even for everybody. But items either pop out at pure random, give a terribly unfair advantage to a player or just make it easier for best players to rack up wins.

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Response to 1 thing that pisses me of about SSB 2013-02-17 17:00:26 Reply

At 2/12/13 05:36 PM, BigBadtheBazz wrote:
At 2/12/13 04:57 PM, kRaZyAzN wrote:
DURRR, anyone who likes to play smash without janky, imbalanced items and stages is a tourney fag. HURRRR
Your a tourney fag aren't you?

You're*. You can play the game however the fuck you want, but calling someone a "tourney fag" just because they like to play competitively is just as stupid as calling a professional sports player a "loser tryhard" because they choose to play the game within a certain ruleset.

At 2/12/13 05:52 PM, LemonCrush wrote: Actually people who play without items, on platformless/eventless stages are just overall bad players.

You see, the skill of a player in any competitive game is measured by how well he can adapt and counter unpredictable/undesirable situations. Tourney fags in Smash avoid the actual skill part of the game because they suck. The items and stages aren't unbalanced if BOTH players have to deal with them.

If you lose because of stage design or items, guess what? It's not the game's fault, you just suck at playing the game. When you play poker, do you remove face cards and aces because they're "unbalanced" too? lol

Lol... no. The items in smash are simply too unbalanced and overpowered, and they add too much randomness to the game. Say you're playing pokemon, and you get a critical hit which kills your opponent's last pokemon. If you hadn't gotten that crit, you would have inevitably lost. Yes, both players have the chance of getting a crit, but because of an arbitrary random number generator which decides whether or not the crit happens, you won -- when you shouldn't have.

Your argument is that competitive players will lose to casual players if they were to play on a hazardous stage with items, which isn't true at all. I guarantee, if you play any professional or semi-professional player with whatever the hell stage and items you want, you will still lose, because they are better than you. When competitive players decide to not include items in the ruleset, it's a mutual agreement; both parties acknowledge that the items are just too random and don't belong in competitive play. If you don't want to play without items, then that's fine. If you want to play with them, then that's ok too. I don't see what the big problem is. Just play however the hell you want, and shutup about it.


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Response to 1 thing that pisses me of about SSB 2013-02-17 18:48:53 Reply

At 2/17/13 05:00 PM, kRaZyAzN wrote: Lol... no. The items in smash are simply too unbalanced and overpowered, and they add too much randomness to the game. Say you're playing pokemon, and you get a critical hit which kills your opponent's last pokemon. If you hadn't gotten that crit, you would have inevitably lost. Yes, both players have the chance of getting a crit, but because of an arbitrary random number generator which decides whether or not the crit happens, you won -- when you shouldn't have.

So, luck based games are unbalanced?

If you can't deal with random items, or crits, then you suck at whatever you're playing.

Your argument is that competitive players will lose to casual players if they were to play on a hazardous stage with items, which isn't true at all. I guarantee, if you play any professional or semi-professional player with whatever the hell stage and items you want, you will still lose, because they are better than you. When competitive players decide to not include items in the ruleset, it's a mutual agreement; both parties acknowledge that the items are just too random and don't belong in competitive play. If you don't want to play without items, then that's fine. If you want to play with them, then that's ok too. I don't see what the big problem is. Just play however the hell you want, and shutup about it.

I didn't say that :/

I'm saying removing the random aspect of the game, means you're changing the game to the point where it isn't even the same gamer anymore. Like playing Chess without pawns.

Removing items is removing a major skill set of the game

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Response to 1 thing that pisses me of about SSB 2013-02-17 19:46:13 Reply

At 2/17/13 06:48 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
At 2/17/13 05:00 PM, kRaZyAzN wrote: Lol... no. The items in smash are simply too unbalanced and overpowered, and they add too much randomness to the game. Say you're playing pokemon, and you get a critical hit which kills your opponent's last pokemon. If you hadn't gotten that crit, you would have inevitably lost. Yes, both players have the chance of getting a crit, but because of an arbitrary random number generator which decides whether or not the crit happens, you won -- when you shouldn't have.
So, luck based games are unbalanced?

in general, the less random a game is, then the more skill it takes. Yes? There's a good reason "rock-paper-scissors" is not played competitively. It's completely random, and there is no way to consistently win. I think a good majority of people who play pokemon competitively would agree that removing crits from the game entirely would make the game less random, and consequently more balanced.

If you can't deal with random items, or crits, then you suck at whatever you're playing.

It's not a matter of not being able to "deal with random items," it's just choosing not to. Any good smash player will undoubtedly be able to use items much better than a casual player can. It's simply a universal ruleset that was the result of mutual agreement among competitive players that items take away from the competitive intensity of the game.

Your argument is that competitive players will lose to casual players if they were to play on a hazardous stage with items, which isn't true at all. I guarantee, if you play any professional or semi-professional player with whatever the hell stage and items you want, you will still lose, because they are better than you. When competitive players decide to not include items in the ruleset, it's a mutual agreement; both parties acknowledge that the items are just too random and don't belong in competitive play. If you don't want to play without items, then that's fine. If you want to play with them, then that's ok too. I don't see what the big problem is. Just play however the hell you want, and shutup about it.
I didn't say that :/

Yes you did say that. Here it is, your exact post:

At 2/12/13 05:52 PM, LemonCrush wrote: Actually people who play without items, on platformless/eventless stages are just overall bad players.

You see, the skill of a player in any competitive game is measured by how well he can adapt and counter unpredictable/undesirable situations. Tourney fags in Smash avoid the actual skill part of the game because they suck. The items and stages aren't unbalanced if BOTH players have to deal with them.

If you lose because of stage design or items, guess what? It's not the game's fault, you just suck at playing the game. When you play poker, do you remove face cards and aces because they're "unbalanced" too? lol

You could not be more wrong. If you were to play a game of Brawl with items on, on a hazardous stage, against a player who has gone to a few tournaments in his time (who very very rarely plays with items on, because he chooses to play competitively), you would lose. In the end, the better player would win. The best brawl players are not people who play it at parties with items on, etc. The best brawl players are those who are able to go to tournaments and win consistently.

http://youtu.be/EBGffJfBkd0?t=9m50s

Playing games competitively is actually very fun. It adds a new level of intensity that I wish more people would be able to appreciate.

I'm saying removing the random aspect of the game, means you're changing the game to the point where it isn't even the same gamer anymore. Like playing Chess without pawns.

Because pawns are the most underwhelming piece in the game, and are definitely a critical component. Your analogy doesn't really work because pawns in chess are not random like items in smash bros are.

Removing items is removing a major skill set of the game

if you watch the video I posted above, then you can see that being able to use items effectively is indeed a very crucial skill set to have. It's just not with the items that you're thinking of. If you turn on the random items in a game, it becomes a game of being able to run around and get all the items and activate them/throw them at your opponent, rather than actually being familiar with you and your opponent's character and being able to fight them head-on.

I'll admit that from time to time, I do like playing with items on/playing on hazardous stages - because it can be pretty fun. But it's just that: fun. It's no longer a skill-oriented game. And like I said before, play the game whichever way is the most fun for you. If other people like to play the game differently, then you should simply respect their opinion, instead of being immature and calling them "tourney fags."


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Response to 1 thing that pisses me of about SSB 2013-02-17 20:12:09 Reply

At 2/17/13 07:46 PM, kRaZyAzN wrote: in general, the less random a game is, then the more skill it takes. Yes? There's a good reason "rock-paper-scissors" is not played competitively. It's completely random, and there is no way to consistently win. I think a good majority of people who play pokemon competitively would agree that removing crits from the game entirely would make the game less random, and consequently more balanced.

However, games like Blackjack and Poker are played competitively and those games are almost entirely random.
Chess is also random in that you are unsure what an opponent will do. There are thousands of possible moves, therefore is basically random

It's not a matter of not being able to "deal with random items," it's just choosing not to. Any good smash player will undoubtedly be able to use items much better than a casual player can. It's simply a universal ruleset that was the result of mutual agreement among competitive players that items take away from the competitive intensity of the game.

Right, so you aren't playing the game it's meant to be played. You're removing a critical component of it.

Your argument is that competitive players will lose to casual players if they were to play on a hazardous stage with items, which isn't true at all. I guarantee, if you play any professional or semi-professional player with whatever the hell stage and items you want, you will still lose, because they are better than you. When competitive players decide to not include items in the ruleset, it's a mutual agreement; both parties acknowledge that the items are just too random and don't belong in competitive play. If you don't want to play without items, then that's fine. If you want to play with them, then that's ok too. I don't see what the big problem is. Just play however the hell you want, and shutup about it.
I didn't say that :/
Yes you did say that. Here it is, your exact post:

Yeah, and nowhere did I say causal players would be able to beat pro players with items.

Playing games competitively is actually very fun. It adds a new level of intensity that I wish more people would be able to appreciate.

Does it really count as "playing competitively" if you remove a major aspect of game play? Again, like removing face cards from a deck of cards.

if you watch the video I posted above, then you can see that being able to use items effectively is indeed a very crucial skill set to have. It's just not with the items that you're thinking of. If you turn on the random items in a game, it becomes a game of being able to run around and get all the items and activate them/throw them at your opponent, rather than actually being familiar with you and your opponent's character and being able to fight them head-on.

I disagree entirely. Would a competitive player suddenly start playing like a casual player just because there was items? I bet not.

I'll admit that from time to time, I do like playing with items on/playing on hazardous stages - because it can be pretty fun. But it's just that: fun. It's no longer a skill-oriented game. And like I said before, play the game whichever way is the most fun for you. If other people like to play the game differently, then you should simply respect their opinion, instead of being immature and calling them "tourney fags."

Well, they aren't playing the game the way it's meant to be played. It's like saying in chess "okay, knight's can only move in straight lines". It's not how the game was made.

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Response to 1 thing that pisses me of about SSB 2013-02-17 20:38:15 Reply

At 2/17/13 08:12 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
At 2/17/13 07:46 PM, kRaZyAzN wrote: in general, the less random a game is, then the more skill it takes. Yes? There's a good reason "rock-paper-scissors" is not played competitively. It's completely random, and there is no way to consistently win. I think a good majority of people who play pokemon competitively would agree that removing crits from the game entirely would make the game less random, and consequently more balanced.
However, games like Blackjack and Poker are played competitively and those games are almost entirely random.
Chess is also random in that you are unsure what an opponent will do. There are thousands of possible moves, therefore is basically random

There is an element of luck involved, yes. Brawl with no items on still has some degree of luck. However, the amount of luck involved in professional Chess, Poker, or Brawl is minimal enough for there to be consistent winners. Maybe to an amateur chess is random, but higher level players will be able to predict and adjust accordingly. It's the same for Smash Bros.

It's not a matter of not being able to "deal with random items," it's just choosing not to. Any good smash player will undoubtedly be able to use items much better than a casual player can. It's simply a universal ruleset that was the result of mutual agreement among competitive players that items take away from the competitive intensity of the game.
Right, so you aren't playing the game it's meant to be played. You're removing a critical component of it.

Now you're just being stubborn. Like I've already repeated several times, PLAY THE GAME HOWEVER YOU WANT TO. The option to toggle items on/off is there for a reason.

Your argument is that competitive players will lose to casual players if they were to play on a hazardous stage with items, which isn't true at all. I guarantee, if you play any professional or semi-professional player with whatever the hell stage and items you want, you will still lose, because they are better than you. When competitive players decide to not include items in the ruleset, it's a mutual agreement; both parties acknowledge that the items are just too random and don't belong in competitive play. If you don't want to play without items, then that's fine. If you want to play with them, then that's ok too. I don't see what the big problem is. Just play however the hell you want, and shutup about it.
I didn't say that :/
Yes you did say that. Here it is, your exact post:
Yeah, and nowhere did I say causal players would be able to beat pro players with items.

You said that players who play without items are bad. Don't pretend like you didn't say that; the post is right there.

Playing games competitively is actually very fun. It adds a new level of intensity that I wish more people would be able to appreciate.
Does it really count as "playing competitively" if you remove a major aspect of game play? Again, like removing face cards from a deck of cards.

I'm just repeating myself now because you're failing to acknowledge the other side of the argument. The game was modified by competitive players as they saw it. It's like when professional football added fieldgoals/kickoffs. They thought it would make the game better, so they added the special teams element. Face cards and items in brawl are not comparable, because like I have already said, the items in brawl are random.

if you watch the video I posted above, then you can see that being able to use items effectively is indeed a very crucial skill set to have. It's just not with the items that you're thinking of. If you turn on the random items in a game, it becomes a game of being able to run around and get all the items and activate them/throw them at your opponent, rather than actually being familiar with you and your opponent's character and being able to fight them head-on.
I disagree entirely. Would a competitive player suddenly start playing like a casual player just because there was items? I bet not.

What the hell are you even trying to say? That makes zero sense, sir. If you turn on items, then it becomes more important to control the items than to actually fight vanilla. The items in Brawl are much more powerful than character attacks. If you will even bother watching at least part of the video I posted above, you'll notice that the game dramatically changes once Zero Suit Samus' armor pieces are no longer on the stage. If items were on, then the competitive player would adapt accordingly, and abuse the items to his advantage. It is just so much easier to press A or Z to pick up an item, and then press A again to throw it, than it is to use a wide variety of moves that your character has to win the game.

I'll admit that from time to time, I do like playing with items on/playing on hazardous stages - because it can be pretty fun. But it's just that: fun. It's no longer a skill-oriented game. And like I said before, play the game whichever way is the most fun for you. If other people like to play the game differently, then you should simply respect their opinion, instead of being immature and calling them "tourney fags."
Well, they aren't playing the game the way it's meant to be played. It's like saying in chess "okay, knight's can only move in straight lines". It's not how the game was made.

For the ___th time, play the game however you damn well please. The option to toggle items on/off is there. If you want to play with items, great. If you don't want to play with them, then that's fine too.

Your argument revolves around the sole point that competitive players are playing the game "wrong." I've already explained to you multiple times that free will allows people to play whichever mode they want. How do you like it when your friends or whoever else says, "let's play with items off and on neutral stages off?" What you're doing right now is the same thing. You're basically saying, "let's play with items on and on janky stages, because that's the way the game was meant to be played. You're playing the game wrong if you don't have items on."

Stop beating a dead horse.


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