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Global Warming pros and cons

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Camarohusky
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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 19th, 2013 @ 07:35 PM Reply

At 1/19/13 07:31 PM, Jmayer20 wrote: Is that an example of a positive of Global Warming?

Why do you want a positive from it?

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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 19th, 2013 @ 07:36 PM Reply

At 1/19/13 07:29 PM, Camarohusky wrote: I really don't see how the opening up of a fairly small amount of new land to farming is any real trade off for the negatives.

It's like finding a $100 bill on the ground after getting shot 10 times. It's nice, but hardly makes up for it.

Just how much land do you think it will be? A few miles, Hundreds of miles or Thousands of miles?

Jmayer20
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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 19th, 2013 @ 07:47 PM Reply

At 1/19/13 07:35 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 1/19/13 07:31 PM, Jmayer20 wrote: Is that an example of a positive of Global Warming?
Why do you want a positive from it?

Well unless we keep an open mind and look at both the positives and negatives then how are we to decide on what the proper response to the situation should be? Because even if you think the negatives out way the positives you will get a better understanding of how to debt with the other side and deal with the problem better. If nothing else what do you have to loss by thinking of both the positives and the negatives. Please Keep an open mind.

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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 19th, 2013 @ 08:39 PM Reply

At 1/19/13 07:29 PM, Camarohusky wrote: It's like finding a $100 bill on the ground after getting shot 10 times. It's nice, but hardly makes up for it.

;;;;
Yeah ...but that's because of inflation !
Just think of how much better it would be if it was 1902 & you had found that 100 dollars


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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 19th, 2013 @ 09:59 PM Reply

At 1/19/13 07:13 PM, Jmayer20 wrote: To Warforger and CaveStoryGrounds

Both of you clearly believe in Global Warming and have talked about negatives to it. But Nether of you answered my other two questions. Can you think of any positives to Global Warming and what do you think we should do about Global Warming?

PS: Do you think any of the positives outweigh the negatives?

It's been proven that CO2 increases Crop yield for certain plants like wheat. The problem though is that it decreases it for others, on top of this even for the crops it does improve it still is a greenhouse gas, this means it helps cause flooding and drought which in itself decreases crop yield. On top of this CO2 also increases the acidity of the oceans, which slowly kills off marine life therefore any argument that it increases food supply is cherry picked to the extreme.

Although I'm tired of people trying to find a middle simply because there are two sides, the pro-Global Warming people have made claims, their claims have stood up much better than the claims of their opponents. Now not all of them turned out to be the case but nothing is perfect.

At 1/19/13 06:10 PM, Ceratisa wrote: unprecedented? We haven't been watching global tempertures long enough to even claim something like that..

We have records of it going back millions of years.....


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All-American-Badass
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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 19th, 2013 @ 10:00 PM Reply

From an economic standpoint, the opening up of The Northwest Passage would be a positive effect of climate change as it would reduce shipping costs.

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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 19th, 2013 @ 10:07 PM Reply

At 1/19/13 10:00 PM, All-American-Badass wrote: From an economic standpoint, the opening up of The Northwest Passage would be a positive effect of climate change as it would reduce shipping costs.

Which again would be canceled out by the economic disaster that would result from flooding, drought, hurricanes etc.


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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 19th, 2013 @ 10:19 PM Reply

At 1/19/13 10:07 PM, Warforger wrote: Which again would be canceled out by the economic disaster that would result from flooding, drought, hurricanes etc.

Hey, who cares? More waterfront property!

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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 19th, 2013 @ 10:23 PM Reply

At 1/19/13 07:31 PM, Jmayer20 wrote:
At 1/19/13 07:24 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: er...I haven't had to shovel nearly as much in the last few years?
Is that an example of a positive of Global Warming?

Yeah, it's the only one I can think of.

Seriously, how can anybody be expected to think it's more of a good thing than a bad thing.


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Camarohusky
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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 12:15 AM Reply

At 1/19/13 10:00 PM, All-American-Badass wrote: From an economic standpoint, the opening up of The Northwest Passage would be a positive effect of climate change as it would reduce shipping costs.

Actually, not so much.

The Northwest passage requires travelling above the 71st Parallel. The Panama Canal is around the 9th parallel. Both sound far off, but when you realize that London (the furthest north direct Atlantic access European Seaport) is 51, Boston is 42, Seattle is 47, and Pusan is 35 and all other major ports of South of these places in theri respective regions, the Northwest Passage becomes more and more out of the way.

Panama allows for quick access to Houston, Miami, and LA when going from Europe-East Coast US-Asia, or reverse. Not to mention, the Panama canal allows for a quicker shot West and Southwest to places like Hong Kong, and the world's busiest seaport: Singapore.

The only scenarios I could see the NWP being better than Panama is in the case of unrest leading to either massive toll increases or a shutting down of the canal (ala the Suez sveral times in history).

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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 10:49 AM Reply

I actually think it's been shown that if global warming did occur in its rawest form, it would most likely probably kill no more than 100 million people. Granted, it would still be the biggest disaster in world history, but that would still make up less than two percent of the Earth's population, but yeah, that's still a pretty high number.


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Jmayer20
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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 11:48 AM Reply

At 1/20/13 10:49 AM, Ericho wrote: I actually think it's been shown that if global warming did occur in its rawest form, it would most likely probably kill no more than 100 million people. Granted, it would still be the biggest disaster in world history, but that would still make up less than two percent of the Earth's population, but yeah, that's still a pretty high number.

Where did you get that number from and how does Global Warming cause that many people to die?

Jmayer20
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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 11:57 AM Reply

Camarohusky did not answer this so now I will ask every one. Just how much land do you think would be available for farming and other uses? This is referring to northern climates getting warmer because of global warming. So how many miles do you think it would be? A few miles, Hundreds of miles or Thousands of miles?

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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 12:08 PM Reply

At 1/20/13 11:57 AM, Jmayer20 wrote: Camarohusky did not answer this so now I will ask every one. Just how much land do you think would be available for farming and other uses? This is referring to northern climates getting warmer because of global warming. So how many miles do you think it would be? A few miles, Hundreds of miles or Thousands of miles?

There would probably be a net loss of thousands of miles of farmable land because of rising sea levels and rapid desertification. There could be a small slither of land opening up in Northern Europe and Russia, but arable land would likely be far less fertile due to increased erosion, pollution and acid rain. Farming would also likely be incredibly more expensive because of a lack of fuel and freshwater.

We have evolved to cope with the climate we had throughout history (as has everything else) and a notably different climate would be havoc. Nothing would become easier.

LemonCrush
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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 12:56 PM Reply

Number 1 con of global warming. It isn't real.

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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 01:05 PM Reply

I just don't think people really understand the consequences of the Earth's temperature rising just a few degrees along with a higher concentration of CO, CO2, and methane. Maybe it's due to uninformed hyperboles from both sides of the argument.

Here's what's happening now:

Ocean acidification- CO2 dissolves into the ocean to create carbonic acid, which lowers ocean PH. Fortunately the ocean has a natural buffer chemical reaction to stabilize pH levels, by converting carbonic acid and calcium into calcium carbonate. The problem is there is such an immense amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and dissolved the ocean that calcium sources are depleting and ocean pH is lowering.

The consequence of an acidic ocean? Well most easily recognizable consequence is the degradation of coral reefs, which are centers of high diversity (lets face it, no rednecks on here will care about), but also the highest centers of photosynthetic productivity in the world.

Here's an interesting fact, phytoplankton and symbiotic algae within corals produce more oxygen than all of the land plants in the world combined! So elimination of coral reefs has quite obvious and even more serious consequences to all life on earth.

What remains is ocean desalination, global warming, and atmospheric air current alteration. These are only the few consequence we actually know about because scientists are observing these phenomena taking place. I'll explain these others later when I have the time.

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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 01:45 PM Reply

To Saen and Earfetish

No offence but I highly doubt that it will get that bad. Whats more you guys seem to think that we would only again a few miles of land. I think we would again thousands of miles of land. Oh and I do not believe that our rain would became so acidic that it will be like sulfuric acid like you guys seem to describe. Hell according to you dooms day environmentalists we should be long dead by now.

Saen
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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 01:51 PM Reply

At 1/20/13 01:45 PM, Rome-forger wrote: To Saen and Earfetish

No offence but I highly doubt that it will get that bad. Whats more you guys seem to think that we would only again a few miles of land. I think we would again thousands of miles of land. Oh and I do not believe that our rain would became so acidic that it will be like sulfuric acid like you guys seem to describe. Hell according to you dooms day environmentalists we should be long dead by now.

It seems you've completely missed the idea I've presented. What I'm talking about has nothing to do with acid rain, but the nature and composition of our ocean changing due to incredibly high CO2 and resulting carbonic acid levels.

Why do you think that this is not happening? Do you not believe in chemistry?

Warforger
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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 02:12 PM Reply

At 1/20/13 12:56 PM, LemonCrush wrote: Number 1 con of global warming. It isn't real.

Wow. Dude not even opponents of the Scientific Consensus think it's not real. That's right, IT'S UNDENIABLE SCIENTIFIC FACT! The only people who do are uneducated right wingers.....oh right.

At 1/20/13 01:45 PM, Rome-forger wrote: To Saen and Earfetish

No offence but I highly doubt that it will get that bad. Whats more you guys seem to think that we would only again a few miles of land. I think we would again thousands of miles of land. Oh and I do not believe that our rain would became so acidic that it will be like sulfuric acid like you guys seem to describe. Hell according to you dooms day environmentalists we should be long dead by now.

Actually the predictions made by the Global Warming side were actually too optimistic, we're actually seeing what they're predicting happening much faster than expected.


"If you don't mind smelling like peanut butter for two or three days, peanut butter is darn good shaving cream.
" - Barry Goldwater.

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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 02:18 PM Reply

Ugh, all I can do is shake my head at these comments. In all of the tens of thousands of years humans have inhabited this planet, our climate has not begun to change this drastically or this quickly until our industrial period within the past two hundred years. If climate change is a completely natural occurrence, then it is one hell of a coincidence.

Who knows what good can come of climate change? I think that the world would be a better place if it were mostly or completely a warm climate, because we would no longer rely on methods of preservation, housing, etc. and it would be easier to live the way native tribes do in warmer climates, where resources are typically abundant. By the same token, our pollution, which is a different matter altogether, is going to make living a lot less sustainable.

Another thing people seem to be forgetting is that because of our ozone layer, overall more energy is entering our atmosphere than exiting. Although much of our energy lies dormant as fossil fuels, or underground completely as molten magma, it's simple addition to assume that eventually there's going to be an EXCESS of energy in our planet. Even if the earth has cycles of warming and cooling, each repetition we're going to come closer to roasting alive.


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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 02:35 PM Reply

At 1/20/13 01:05 PM, Saen wrote: What remains is ocean desalination, global warming, and atmospheric air current alteration. These are only the few consequence we actually know about because scientists are observing these phenomena taking place. I'll explain these others later when I have the time.

These things only matter to PEOPLE. The earth doesn't give a flying fuck. It and life as a whole will adapt to the changes. Just as they have since the beginning of time. Humans may go extinct, but as far the the planet goes, who gives a fuck?

LemonCrush
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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 02:36 PM Reply

At 1/20/13 02:18 PM, Kwing wrote: Ugh, all I can do is shake my head at these comments. In all of the tens of thousands of years humans have inhabited this planet, our climate has not begun to change this drastically or this quickly until our industrial period within the past two hundred years. If climate change is a completely natural occurrence, then it is one hell of a coincidence.

No it isn't. The climate has done nothing out of the ordinary during humans existence.

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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 03:16 PM Reply

At 1/20/13 02:35 PM, LemonCrush wrote: These things only matter to PEOPLE. The earth doesn't give a flying fuck. It and life as a whole will adapt to the changes. Just as they have since the beginning of time. Humans may go extinct, but as far the the planet goes, who gives a fuck?

So what if the Earth will live on? We're human and all we care about is rooted in humanity, so I'm pretty darn sure we ALL care about how and when humans go extinct. I definitely care about how liveable the Earth is in case humans don't go extinct. I don't want to turn our paradise into a terrible but survivable land. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, especially my descendants.

As for the land opening up North, look at what that land is now. Forest. The Taiga produces a significant chunk (well over a quarter) of the World's oxygen. One of the major reasons the taiga has been left untouched was because the land is too harsh. Not too harsh to farm, as it is farmed, but too harsh for there to be a rush on the land. So even if millions of acres warmed up, we would have to buldoze our oxygen producing Taiga to use the land.

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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 05:53 PM Reply

So what do you guys think about Al Gore and his movie An Inconvenient Truth? For those of you who have not see it here it is.

http://documentarylovers.net/an-inconvenient-truth/

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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 06:24 PM Reply

At 1/20/13 02:35 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
At 1/20/13 01:05 PM, Saen wrote: What remains is ocean desalination, global warming, and atmospheric air current alteration. These are only the few consequence we actually know about because scientists are observing these phenomena taking place. I'll explain these others later when I have the time.
These things only matter to PEOPLE. The earth doesn't give a flying fuck. It and life as a whole will adapt to the changes. Just as they have since the beginning of time. Humans may go extinct, but as far the the planet goes, who gives a fuck?

You're just about right except for the fact that tons of other species will become extinct as well. And you're not concerned? I guess that sums up the right's view on climate change when they are pinned in a corner with facts, "we along with tons of other species will die, who gives a fuck."

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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 06:26 PM Reply

At 1/20/13 05:53 PM, Jmayer20 wrote: So what do you guys think about Al Gore and his movie An Inconvenient Truth? For those of you who have not see it here it is.

http://documentarylovers.net/an-inconvenient-truth/

A great movie which really began to bring the concern for climate change to the public.

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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 07:03 PM Reply

At 1/20/13 05:53 PM, Jmayer20 wrote: So what do you guys think about Al Gore and his movie An Inconvenient Truth? For those of you who have not see it here it is.

http://documentarylovers.net/an-inconvenient-truth/

It has good intentions and the basic points are true, some of the more specific and ominous claims didn't turn out to be true however. The problem is that it's still Al Gore, and he still talks trash about Bush during the documentary, so this further politicized the issue which is always a bad thing. I mean there are Republicans who believe in Climate Change such as Lindsey Gramm also a Southerner, but to distance people like this isn't good. It also tries attacking cars and coal production, while leaving out a main contributor such as meat production (cow farts aren't just a joke, they release methane into the atmosphere which is even worse than CO2) simply because it's an easier solution. There's also the problem of assuming the rest of the world is much more committed than we are simply because they sign agreements, for example China signed the Kyoto protocol yet remains unable to meet the standards it promised. At the end of the day though, it's still better than the other side's approach so there's that.

At 1/20/13 06:26 PM, Saen wrote: A great movie which really began to bring the concern for climate change to the public.

Oh no Climate Change was a big issue since the 70's when they first began to notice this trend. The documentary merely made it the more important issue.


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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 07:11 PM Reply

Almost all studies around co2 as a greenhouse gas seems to be complete bullcrap from both sides.
Many leaked emails by both sides, show that it's just a political view being forced into research.

Because of that, they still haven't managed to make a model of the earth temperature, that even comes close to reality.
So my only conclusion is that we don't know how it works and sofar science has been nothing more than politics and media.

Bit of a shame seeing how important it is for humanity. What I do know is that dinosaurs lived on this planet a lot longer than we have in subtropical climates. If those large creatures managed to survive, I don't see much problems for us as long as the temperature increases gradually.

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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 07:17 PM Reply

At 1/20/13 06:24 PM, Saen wrote: You're just about right except for the fact that tons of other species will become extinct as well. And you're not concerned? I guess that sums up the right's view on climate change when they are pinned in a corner with facts, "we along with tons of other species will die, who gives a fuck."

And either the earth will adapt, or, more likely, species will adapt to changes in their environment.

If species end up dying due to changes in environment, they were going to die anyway. Using unleaded gas isn't gonna keep them alive.

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Response to Global Warming pros and cons Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 07:18 PM Reply

At 1/20/13 03:16 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
So what if the Earth will live on? We're human and all we care about is rooted in humanity, so I'm pretty darn sure we ALL care about how and when humans go extinct. I definitely care about how liveable the Earth is in case humans don't go extinct. I don't want to turn our paradise into a terrible but survivable land. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, especially my descendants.

The earth has been doing it's own thing LONG before humans, and will continue to long after them.

It will change and do it's own thing regardless of any human actions.