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"Religion is so stupid."

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Camarohusky
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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Jan. 19th, 2013 @ 03:43 AM

At 1/18/13 08:11 PM, 4761 wrote: Oh wait. That doesn't happen. You say that "I can't solve my wife's emotional problems" yeah well, are you trying to say religion can?

You must be single, caused you missed this one by a mile.

You can tell your wife/girlfriend everything about how to fix her problems and all you will do is make her more mad. All she wants to to be comforted and validated. You can try to understand why people are so connected to religion with logic, but in the end, it's all about comfort and connection. Unless you get this empotional connection you will never understand religion.

What are emotions? Nothing but a vast array of neurological reactions to certain situations designed to keep us mentally stable and physically well (except for the time where it doesn't keep us well).

And religion helps keep millions mentally stable and physically well. You would rob them of this, why? (you're a dick, that's why)

Oh yeah, fuck mythology. You know, the very things that are supposed to elucidate the so-called good morals to the practitioner. The stories that were supposed to explain unexplainable but now unexplainable occurrences.

That's part of the emotional connection. Instead of having these vast empty holes of pure guesses about what exists around us, it allows those people to fill the holes and go on with the merry lives.

We're not debating user experience here. We are debating religion and all of its good and evil. The sociological, cultural, and political implications of religion impact far more than simply user experience.

That's wrong. The core of religion is the user experience. Everything else is nothing other than a product of the humans involved.


But that's not the point we're making. The point we're making is that there are so many heinous morals expounded in these fables and that they should never be part of the experience to begin with. Of course more people realize that these stories are fictional, but the argument here is that they were never useful to begin with and they are further proof that the idea of God that many worship is a narcissistic fiend or that religion is very deceitful.

The only narcissism here is the idea that not believing in god makes one better than those who do.

If someone chooses to believe outlandish thing sin order for them to live an ordinary life, so be it. Also, have you eve noticed that the morals you hate in religion are only followed by those who don't like the concept to begin with? Most religious folk break rules left and right, and only follow those they want to follow. In other wrods they choose the morals to follow. Those religious who hate gays don't hate gays because the religion says so. They hate them because they hate them and use the religion as a cover.

What kind of guidance, exactly? What kind of guidance does religion give that already couldn't be given without its existence?

Nothing. But that's irrelevant. They gravitate to religion not because it's the sole place guidance can be found, but because it is a place where guidance is EASY to find. It's a preset guide where everything is laid out for you.

So does terrorism. Get enough terrorists who share the same values together and they will treat themselves with the utmost respect and share wholesome pastimes and duties.

And? Your point?

The point is you don't need religion to be a part of a larger community. If one cranes their neck the other way, they might spot a community that is all right for them without having to adhere to strict moral codes, lies, stories, dogma, etc...

Again it's not about religion being the only place to find community. It's about a pre-existing community already being in place.

The growth of such communities outside of religion has been a large factor in the decline of religion recently.

When nothing else can?

Sound slike you've lived a cuhsy life and never struggled for anything. I have had tough times and I can tell you it's fucking hard to find things to comfort you when everything around you is a reminder of how shitty things have gotten. Religion is one of the few concepts that is taught as unconditional in our lives.

For people to be lied to and told that everything will be better just for the sake of having them comforted?

Hell yes it's OK. I'd rather die in comfort and ignorance than in full knowledge and in pain (physicl or emotional).

We are not supposed to be comforted. We are supposed to solve our problems or at least try to solve them.

Again, armchair quarterbacking from a 1st world rich kid on his computer seat.

Not all problems in life can be solved. Dead relatives will not come back. Lost organs will not grow back. Terminal diseases will not go away. Lost loves rarely come back. Lost jobs rarely come back. Past mistakes cannot be unmade.

Yes, we can all move on, but part of moving on is accepting where you have gone, and religion helps millions od this every day.


This is why I defend religion, not because of whether it is correct or not, but because it helps people.
Religion causes more problems,

Those problems are human problems caused by humans weaknesses, such as greed, ingorance, hatred and so on. Those things still exist in equal number in secular communities. Religion, in those cases, is nothing but a tool of a secular ill.


I have no idea what you are talking about.

That is pretty clear. You are so set in your religious hatred of religion that you cnnot see simple facts in front of you: Billions love religion as religion has given them a lot. I suggest you stop doing what you preach to hate (labelling vast swaths of people) and start ATTEMPTING to understand, as the non-religious are supposed to be ore undertanding, right? Prove that notion right, not wrong.

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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Jan. 19th, 2013 @ 12:57 PM

At 1/18/13 04:46 AM, shieldurhope wrote: @ dbs
I realize that reading emotion through a screen is difficult, but I feel genuinely sorry for what happened. Theburningliberal in the thread that:
[everyone is] not deserving of God's grace, which pretty much includes every Christian alive today.

;;;
I go by More actually, & you certainly have nothing to appologise for . Everyone IMO is responsible for their own actions, except for those who are obviously mentally incapable ...which could be said to excuse millions of people ~;)

this may be why atheism has so much appeal: it presents itself is a fortress that guards you against people. In essence what Cam is saying holds truth in that it placates some emotional need. But it is just another division of people, complete with well-intentioned to backstabbing maggots.

I have never seen the appeal to atheism myself, a belief in absolutely nothing may hold a place of peace in the hearts of some ... I'd perfer to believe more along the buddist line of thought on recreation etc , yet as with other religious belief, there is just too much "our way is the only way" for my way of thinking.
As soon as religious belief gets itself written down & direct rules & order is put forward as being important, it destroys the whole ideal of god .


I feel you deserve an apology so I apologise on behalf of the minister. What he did was wrong and this is what happens when you try to make a religion into a corporation.

;;;
Again no apology necessary, & your comment about the 'corporation' & the rules imposed on the believers, most of it through manipulation by men, long dead & reinterpreted again & again by those who came later right up to today, is definately in my opinion a huge part of the problem of all religions.

Being raised in a mixed religious family (catholic & Protestant) gave me a view of both of these religions as a child depending on which side of the family I happened to be attending church with this week. IT started me questioning all of it at a very young age, & when in Sunday school I got no definitive answers to some probably distrubing questions of my teachers. Has helped shape my evolving cinical attitude towards all man made control mechanisms .... becasue anyone who believes for 1 second organised religion today isn't about control & power is a imbecill.

Have a nice day sheildurhope


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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 12:51 AM

Poor Christians, not being able to dictate other people lives according to their belief about god. why can't it still be like the good old renaissance days when someone said there an atheist you get to chop there balls of toss it in a fire and strangle them to death with there foreskin. I shed a tear for those poor Christians. ) =

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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 12:54 AM

At 1/16/13 12:36 AM, Ranger2 wrote: Honestly, I hear this idea being thrown around so much. There was even an article on CNN talking about how only idiots believe in religion and that the world would be so much better if nobody believed in G-d.

I always think the "the world would be so better..." theory is pretty dumb. Even if we were all atheists, we'd find a way to fight about that, or we'd find a different way to kill each other. Has religion led to a lot of blood shed? Fuck yeah. But the biggest thing that's led to blood shed is "hey, hey that guy over there is different then me, or has shit I want...rather then ask him to share, or getting to know him, I'll just fucking kill him and that'll solve my problem!". Religious wars are essentially just offshoots of this basic principle.

I find this insulting on two accounts: First off, how are people going around decrying the evils of religion and telling believers that they are mindless drones any different than evangelicals or WBC going around telling you you're going to hell?

It really isn't. That's the area that militant atheists need to realize makes them exactly like militant theists.

Both groups are essentially the same: people who believe that if you don't agree with them, you are lower than dirt.

Or just stupid or misguided at any rate. I'm not sure it's fair to say all members of both groups who hold the opinion that the other guy is totally fucking wrong sees it as "and that makes the other guy shit".

What I find really disturbing is that the majority of the anti-religion zealots almost exclusively attack Christians.

Well, there's more of them around, and they tend to make the most noise about their religion. That's one of the tenets of most Christian sects, to go preach and be in people's face to convert them. When that's a tenet of faith, don't be surprised if occasionally you'll run into people who will tell you to fuck off and not appreciate it.

Why single out Christians? Why not Jews too? We believe in the same thing, (albeit they wrote up a sequel) so why call out Jews on our supposed idiocy in believing in religion? If someone took a break from calling Christianity stupid and started shouting out how stupid Judaism is, people would shout "anti-Semitism!" and rightly so.

I know people that think all religion is stupid. Thinking however that Judaism is wrong or dumb is NOT in fact anti-Semitism. If we're going to do that, then we have to call the Catholic Church anti-semites (like Israel did) when the Pope said he didn't believe the Israelis have a contract with God because Jesus's coming represented a new covenant that nullified the old one. Is THAT anti-semitic to you? Because to me I don't think it is. He's not saying they shouldn't or can't live there, just that his religious belief is that they don't have the ability to claim a divine right to do so. Anti-semitism is actively hating/trying to harm Jews.

I can truly understand why some are mad at religion. It was technically religion that started the Crusades, 9/11, and crucifixion. There are are a lot of religious tribal conflicts which spark violence across the world.

Very true.

But those are religious extremists. Those who overanalyze scripture will inevitably take it too far. And while it isn't good to follow the rules of scripture and only scripture, religion is not inherently a bad thing. They all profess basic moralities like treating others well. It's perfectly fine and rational to believe in a G-d-all civilizations have had dominant beliefs in a divine creator(s) since ancient times. As long as you live in a balance between religion and modernity, there's nothing stupid about that.

Ok, first off, I see what you're trying to do...keep it more "theist" vs. being about your specific professed religion (Christianity). The way to do that is to make sure when you talk about the divine, and wish to do so in a non-specific way you NEVER capitalize the G, that makes it a proper name, and identifies it to only those specific religions that believe it to be a proper name. To be neutral you should use "god(s)". Much better catch all term.

Now let's go to your actual point: There IS an incompatibility between modernity and religion. Religion, no matter which one it is, has always been an INSTRUCTIVE catch all. It has been meant to teach morality, the origin of the world, the origin of it's species, when something is saying in big bold letters "this is how it is, the end, stop asking questions mother fuckers" it will inevitably clash, and unravel in the face of new information that successfully challenges it. Especially if that information proves true. In any other situation where this happens, nobody is allowed to move the goal posts and say "ok, so we/I was wrong about X...but Y is still ok because that hasn't been conclusively knocked down yet!". No, in any other instance, when you prove claims wrong, the claims have to stop being made. If you have a set of claims, and most of them are proven wrong, it's not crazy to then believe that the claims connected to them (For example, we've proven the Bible is wrong that man was created from dust, thus the Bible was wrong there...the flood, adam and eve, pretty much all of genesis, and much of the rest is wrong, isn't it logical then to figure if that much is demonstrably wrong then the rest is wrong too?) fall down and aren't true.


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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 06:33 AM

At 1/16/13 12:36 AM, Ranger2 wrote: I find this insulting on two accounts: First off, how are people going around decrying the evils of religion and telling believers that they are mindless drones any different than evangelicals or WBC going around telling you you're going to hell?

The former can be logically justified, depending on the religion in question, the latter cannot. For instance, when it comes to the evils of religion, just look at the latter part of your argument, it can easily be argued that the existence of such a place as hell is inherently evil. Obviously that doesn't apply to all religions, but that's just one example, many religions have some pretty immoral subject matter in their holy books. As far as the "mindless drones" part, that's obviously due to many religious people blindly following religious dogma and accepting supernatural claims as truth without question.

However, when it comes to some religious person telling someone they're going to be sent to hell, there's no way to justify that claim if you can't even prove the existence of such a place. There's certainly a difference. With that said, I don't actually agree with labeling all religion evil or all religious people as "mindless drones".

What I find really disturbing is that the majority of the anti-religion zealots almost exclusively attack Christians. Why single out Christians?

It really depends on the "anti-religion zealots" you're talking about. Usually when someone is going to ridicule a religion, it's going to be a religion they know a lot about and they're probably going to know the most about the prominent religion of the area they live in. Also, I've definitely seen religions other than Christianity get plenty of ridicule as well.

If someone took a break from calling Christianity stupid and started shouting out how stupid Judaism is, people would shout "anti-Semitism!" and rightly so.

Criticizing Judaism =/= anti-semitism.

It's perfectly fine and rational to believe in a G-d-

What's rational about belief in a god?

all civilizations have had dominant beliefs in a divine creator(s) since ancient times.

That doesn't make it rational or moral.


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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 06:47 AM

Our President is religious unless he is lying about being a Christian, would that mean you're technically calling our President a moron for having a Religion?


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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 08:13 AM

At 1/20/13 06:47 AM, TheKlown wrote: Our President is religious unless he is lying about being a Christian, would that mean you're technically calling our President a moron for having a Religion?

"Technically" one can call the president a moron for many reasons, but calling him a moron for being or acting Christian in order to become president and lead a country full of them, is not "technically" a valid reason.

@backtopic
Look religion is not a discussion between theist and atheist. There are many people who do not believe in god who are religious and there is a even larger percentage of people being theist without having a religion. So basically religion needs to be seen as its own entity, if you want to have any progress in the discussion. Because people have a whole spectrum in what they do and do not believe.

Why religion is so often attacked and in such a crude way, is because most people who are religious are brought up that way and because the church is in command of their spiritual development, most of the individual grows up with mainly Christian values. Of which a large portion is considered "good", but also a large portion is no longer acceptable in modern times and slowing our advances as a species.

Even though some Christians, like the topic opener, seem on the right track. The extremist he talks about are actually the ones who are officially still in charge. Which we see as a fundamental problem. You can all easily understand that if a system control depends on a top to base control scheme. That when the top is deemed unfit, the rest of the system can be seen fundamentally flawed. This is why many anti religious people attack the entity as a whole

And despite the extremist actually being the main target, we use tactics called dehumanisation and generalisation to discredit the people on the bottom . We do this in order to make the discussion and nature of the problem more basic and easier to tackle. Because we believe that religion brings up fundamental problems and should therefore be tackled fundamentally.

In most cases, like this one, it leads to conflict with people that we don't really want to conflict with. On the other hand we cannot leave it to them to fix their own religion as it's build in such a way that you cannot really gain much power within the system, if you do not follow the rules they have set-up. But also because they all have different values that they want to bring to the table, making the problem more complicated.

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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 08:51 AM

At 1/20/13 08:13 AM, Migel wrote: You can all easily understand that if a system control depends on a top to base control scheme. That when the top is deemed unfit, the rest of the system can be seen fundamentally flawed. This is why many anti religious people attack the entity as a whole

;;;
Let us not forget the obvious problems such as astronomical wealth of many religious groups ...& their message of poverty for the Hierarchy, & their message of being there for the poor.
Yet they have shit like this.

"Religion is so stupid."


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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 11:21 AM

At 1/16/13 12:36 AM, Ranger2 wrote: But those are religious extremists. Those who overanalyze scripture will inevitably take it too far. And while it isn't good to follow the rules of scripture and only scripture, religion is not inherently a bad thing. They all profess basic moralities like treating others well. It's perfectly fine and rational to believe in a G-d-all civilizations have had dominant beliefs in a divine creator(s) since ancient times. As long as you live in a balance between religion and modernity, there's nothing stupid about that.

First of all, I'm pretty much an agnostic, so I'm not going to debate the validity of your beliefs.

But... I am sick and tired of that apologetic argument.
These extremist elements are a rogue element in a religious group, sure, there are good, normal people in said group as well, sure, the good people in your group outnumber the extremists, well, fucking prove it already!

Let's try to visualize the current situation...
One man enters a room, there are ten other people with the same religion in said room.
One of those other people is a religious nut and starts yelling at the man, insulting him, calling him a nonbeliever and starts insulting that mans own beliefs.
That man complains about the unacceptability of the zealots behavior, and now, four of the other, more moderate people in the room proclaim that that man is a prejudiced bigot for generalizing the behavior of the zealot on the whole of their religious community, while the five remaining people start whining that their whole community is not like that.

Was that the appropriate response? NO!
Did that help the situation? NO!
Instead of being annoyed by just one person who almost directly attacked him and his values, the man also had to bear with four people accusing him of being a bigot, and five people complaining in a way that feels as if he is being villainized.

This is what many agnostics have to deal with... And you are amazed that they're turning into full fledged atheists and are actively targeting you?
Guess what, Jews aren't a target because: A) They've already had to take enough shit, just look at their history, and B) From what I've seen from Jews, they try to keep a low profile, they try to keep to themselves and they don't bother others and more importantly, me.

No! What would have been the appropriate response to this situation is if those nine other people diverted their attention to the nut job that is giving them a bad name and tell him to put a sock in it because he's giving them a bad name.
Until that happens, I'm not going to accept that "it's just an extremist minority" bullshit anymore.

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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 02:25 PM

I have my own beliefs about the way the world works. At the end of the day I believe mind has power over matter, that reality is entirely subjective to perception, and that religion has only been made 'real' by our own beliefs and construction of various gods.

Of course, I understand I'm in the vast minority for believing that, and since most people don't care enough to listen, I typically keep my mouth shut. But the truth is that religion is only about 4% mythology and philosophy and 96% community. Religion has never been about God; churches and temples exist for the SOLE purpose of uniting people toward a common cause. If that cause is charitable, leave it be. If people use it to spread misinformation, further personal or political gain, or to harm others, then it needs to be put to a stop.

I could care less about what people believe, but it would be nice if people would stop turning religion into a group activity.


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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 02:40 PM

anyone who hate's religions can go burn in hell


DOINT YOU FUCKING IGNORE ME!

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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 03:28 PM

At 1/20/13 02:40 PM, e102delta1379 wrote: anyone who hate's religions can go burn in hell

Right next to those who misuse apostrophes?

At 1/20/13 11:21 AM, Zanroth wrote: That man complains about the unacceptability of the zealots behavior, and now, four of the other, more moderate people in the room proclaim that that man is a prejudiced bigot for generalizing the behavior of the zealot on the whole of their religious community, while the five remaining people start whining that their whole community is not like that.

First off, that's not how it happens.

The scenario you're describing is more like:

"That man complains about how the zealot's behavior is disgusting by blaming the entire religion".

Most religious folk do exactly what they should do to the extremists: Ignore them. What happens when you fight a Poxpo- I mean extremist? They get even louder. They begin to use even more irrational thought to justify their original bullshit. Hell, in many cases they are so irrational, they get violent.

You're requirement that the fundies be shouted down by the regulars to prove how good the religion is is like saying the way to get rid of a troll is to argue harder with them. The way to get rid of a troll is to rob them of power by robbing them of attention. The same goes for extremists. There will always be extremis group think, but as long as their group think stays confined to their group, no one cares. Once people start listening to them, their extremism is allowed to roam free and affect everyone else.

Frankly, all you have done is turn your own discomfort with how the extremeists have acted into a disdain for the entirety of religion.


No! What would have been the appropriate response to this situation is if those nine other people diverted their attention to the nut job that is giving them a bad name and tell him to put a sock in it because he's giving them a bad name.

They do do that by ostracizing them. Warren Jeffs was an extremeist, and you know how the Mormons shut him up? They excommunicated him and sent him away.

Until that happens, I'm not going to accept that "it's just an extremist minority" bullshit anymore.

Well, you're going to have to wait a long time, because pouring gas on a fire is a shitty way to put it out.

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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Jan. 20th, 2013 @ 07:02 PM

At 1/20/13 03:28 PM, Camarohusky wrote: Most religious folk do exactly what they should do to the extremists: Ignore them. What happens when you fight a Poxpo- I mean extremist? They get even louder. They begin to use even more irrational thought to justify their original bullshit. Hell, in many cases they are so irrational, they get violent.

This will be interpreted as silent approval.
This is NOT what they should do to someone making a fool out of their organization.

You're requirement that the fundies be shouted down by the regulars to prove how good the religion is is like saying the way to get rid of a troll is to argue harder with them. The way to get rid of a troll is to rob them of power by robbing them of attention. The same goes for extremists. There will always be extremis group think, but as long as their group think stays confined to their group, no one cares. Once people start listening to them, their extremism is allowed to roam free and affect everyone else.

Nope, what I'm saying is that their own people should argue with them, let them and the general public know that the majority of the group is not behind them, optimally in a public fashion.
This way the extremist will either lose the "power in numbers" feeling, as... Well, it needs to be said, the power in numbers aspect is one of the core aspects religion has going for it, the need to belong in a group who share your beliefs. Take that away and you'll see the troll shrink away into the background. Pretty much the same thing bullies have going for them.
Either that or they'll get pissed and form their own subcult, which when properly delineated diverts the hate from the main body of the religious organization and can act as a fall-guy for further mishaps.
But, remaining silent as a group is the lazy way out and you are, again to the observer, acknowledging that this "troll" represents your group.

Imagine one person standing in front of a group, everyone wearing the same shirt, is shouting out inane nonsense, as the rest of the group stands behind him with their arms crossed, not uttering a word, while they are thinking to themselves "I totally don't agree with what this asshat is saying, but I'll just keep quiet".
Now, anyone walking across this scene, unless of course the nearby future turns into some sort of comic book universe were every tenth person or so happens to be a telepath, will think "what a group of asshats".

They do do that by ostracizing them. Warren Jeffs was an extremeist, and you know how the Mormons shut him up? They excommunicated him and sent him away.

That, however, IS an appropriate response.
It sends a clear message to the general public that this person does not represent your organization and that their behavior is not wanted.

It pretty much equates to, in my example, someone else from the group yelling at the observer "we don't know this guy, totally not one of us!", and then telling the extremist/troll to leave.
In that case, the observer would believe he were mistaken.

That would be a perfect response if this were a one time event, but sadly we see that the moment the observer has dismissed that one weird guy as an extremist, another individual steps forward from the group and starts exhibiting unwanted behavior, and when that one is dealt with, another, and so the cycle continues.
At that point the observer starts thinking to himself "hey, these assholes are screwing with me!", and the "minority of extremists" argument becomes a lot less credible.
At that point your reputation is already blemished, possibly irreparably so.

Preferably before this happens, you should make sure that your organization has a clear set of rules that is somewhat up do date and acceptably compatible with the cultural and moral rules of the society/region your religious organization inhabits and that all your recognized/accepted members are up to speed on this.

Well, you're going to have to wait a long time, because pouring gas on a fire is a shitty way to put it out.

Don't worry, I can wait.

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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Jan. 29th, 2013 @ 12:38 AM

At 1/16/13 12:36 AM, Ranger2 wrote: Honestly, I hear this idea being thrown around so much. There was even an article on CNN talking about how only idiots believe in religion and that the world would be so much better if nobody believed in G-d.

I find this insulting on two accounts: First off, how are people going around decrying the evils of religion and telling believers that they are mindless drones any different than evangelicals or WBC going around telling you you're going to hell? Both groups are essentially the same: people who believe that if you don't agree with them, you are lower than dirt.

What I find really disturbing is that the majority of the anti-religion zealots almost exclusively attack Christians. Why single out Christians? Why not Jews too? We believe in the same thing, (albeit they wrote up a sequel) so why call out Jews on our supposed idiocy in believing in religion? If someone took a break from calling Christianity stupid and started shouting out how stupid Judaism is, people would shout "anti-Semitism!" and rightly so.

I can truly understand why some are mad at religion. It was technically religion that started the Crusades, 9/11, and crucifixion. There are are a lot of religious tribal conflicts which spark violence across the world.

But those are religious extremists. Those who overanalyze scripture will inevitably take it too far. And while it isn't good to follow the rules of scripture and only scripture, religion is not inherently a bad thing. They all profess basic moralities like treating others well. It's perfectly fine and rational to believe in a G-d-all civilizations have had dominant beliefs in a divine creator(s) since ancient times. As long as you live in a balance between religion and modernity, there's nothing stupid about that.

This is one of the big reasons why Religion is meant to be treated as a Private Club of Loyalty & Devotion but instead most people have treated it as Public Influence and people treating Religion as a Public Influence eventually leads to none other but Disloyalty, even Betrayal.

People that read this message I type up should do themselves a favor and treat Religion as nothing more and nothing less but just a Private Club of Loyalty & Devotion, exactly to what depends on the person oneself, let it be Freedom, let it be Technology, let it be Peace, let it be Bungholioism, let it be Jedism, let it be whichever the person wishes to devote oneself towards to.

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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Feb. 3rd, 2013 @ 01:47 AM

At 1/16/13 01:27 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 1/16/13 03:11 AM, poxpower wrote: One it true, the other is false.
Since when did ever that have any bearing on an emotional issue? If you have ever spent time with a girlfriend or wife you would very clearly know that being right doesn't make you right when it comes to emotional issues. Religion is an emotional issue (meaning that religion exists almost entirely within the realm of emotion, not logic).

You speak as if no one has ever thought to justify - or feel justified in - their emotions, as the derivative of an antecedent reality. It is in the expression of the emotion or corresponding truth that the problem lies. That it may be *inconsiderate* (or as you deliberately and misleadingly put it: not right) to call that truth a farce, is beside the point of whether or not it is a farce. The dismissal of veracity in light of emotion is a red herring to the issue of veracity.

Your particular use of the argument begs the notion that one can only just be offended, but not offended by something - as to lay claim to a cause for offense would be to implicitly claim that a truth, as a truth, has bearing. Returning to the matter of red herrings: offense without something to be offended by would be unreasonable.

Girlfriends can be unreasonable when they get emotional.

And religion does not almost entirely exist within the realm of emotion. It is readily expressed in terms and concepts less abstract than mere feeling. It's mythologies are comprised of people, places, events, ... all things that can be dealt with in the realm of logic.

Whether something is considered true does have bearing on whether one finds consolation or suffers distress.

Whether something offers emotional support does not implicitly render the judgement of its veracity wrong.


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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Feb. 15th, 2013 @ 05:40 AM

I like these ''us vs them'' fights when it comes to the atheist and theist.

because it gives me a chance to share with the uninitiated the middle way, by way of the wise words of Joseph Campbell.

What has always troubled my mind is how the common 'murican associates The Higher Power with the failed cult of christ. On top of that, there is a serious lack of education when it comes to the common threads between almost every religion/myth and the psyche.

"Another example of universal myth often cited by Campbell is virgin birth, which occurs in "practically every mythology I know," he says. (For instance, Campbell writes in his book "Primitive Mythology" that the pantheon of Mexico's Aztec Indians included a god, Quetzalcoatl, who was the son of a virgin mother, Chimalman.)

"The virgin birth has nothing to do with a biological accident," Campbell explained. It symbolizes instead, he said, "the awakening of spiritual life in the human animal. It's a mythic symbol. It should not be read, finally, as historical fact. All mythology is misread when it is read as referring to historical events or geographical places. The Promised Land is not a piece of land to be conquered by military might; it is a condition of the heart."

Campbell is troubled by the tendency of many people he encounters to interpret mythology as either a fact or an outright lie.

Mythology, by Campbell's definition, is a collection of metaphors, or "an organization of symbolic images and narratives metaphorical of the possibility of human experience and fulfillment in a given culture at a given time.""

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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Feb. 15th, 2013 @ 06:30 AM

I don't think Religion is stupid. Although it does sometimes seem like religious people revel in their ignorance. But there are things you just have to believe even-though they haven't been proven. Like P vs NP problem. It maybe that someday in the future it will be proven one way or the other, until that time most computer scientists are just going to have to take it on faith that P âo/oo NP. Everything that is taught is taken as an article of faith. Even-though it could have been proven by someone else, such knowledge is rarely self-validated.

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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Feb. 15th, 2013 @ 06:35 AM

At 2/15/13 05:40 AM, 13datura31 wrote: I like these ''us vs them'' fights when it comes to the atheist and theist.

because it gives me a chance to share with the uninitiated the middle way,

There actually isn't a "middle way" with atheism and theism. You either have belief in the existence of a god or you don't.

Campbell is troubled by the tendency of many people he encounters to interpret mythology as either a fact or an outright lie.

Mythology, by Campbell's definition, is a collection of metaphors, or "an organization of symbolic images and narratives metaphorical of the possibility of human experience and fulfillment in a given culture at a given time.""

If you want to think of the supernatural aspects of religion as metaphors, well that's fine. However, that has nothing to do with atheism/theism which deals with disbelief/belief in the actual existence of a real god, not a metaphorical god.


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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Feb. 15th, 2013 @ 07:00 AM

At 2/15/13 06:35 AM, chiefindomer wrote:
There actually isn't a "middle way" with atheism and theism. You either have belief in the existence of a god or you don't.

People's beliefs are not restricted to a binary switch and are more flexible than you give credit.

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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Feb. 15th, 2013 @ 04:08 PM

At 2/15/13 07:00 AM, MOSFET wrote:
At 2/15/13 06:35 AM, chiefindomer wrote:
There actually isn't a "middle way" with atheism and theism. You either have belief in the existence of a god or you don't.
People's beliefs are not restricted to a binary switch and are more flexible than you give credit.

No. We're talking about a logical absolute here, any middle ground between belief and lack of belief would be a paradox.


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laughatyourfuneral
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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Feb. 15th, 2013 @ 07:09 PM

here comes the endgame mofos.

religionis not stupid, fanatism is. it covers but is not limited to religion


by all means... ask

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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Feb. 15th, 2013 @ 08:52 PM

At 2/15/13 04:08 PM, chiefindomer wrote:
At 2/15/13 07:00 AM, MOSFET wrote:
At 2/15/13 06:35 AM, chiefindomer wrote:
There actually isn't a "middle way" with atheism and theism. You either have belief in the existence of a god or you don't.
People's beliefs are not restricted to a binary switch and are more flexible than you give credit.
No. We're talking about a logical absolute here, any middle ground between belief and lack of belief would be a paradox.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

It's true, belief could be modeled as a either you are or you are not. Indeed, our language does this by the words atheism and theism, but that's just a convention to easily categorize people. I observe people having varied levels of belief and non-belief. There are theists who have their doubts and the are atheists that sometimes wonder if God is real. What if God told a believer to be an atheist in their dream, are they really an atheist, or just some poser?

Go on and declare belief of a type boolean, I'm just saying it's overly simplistic and not as informative.

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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Feb. 15th, 2013 @ 11:29 PM

At 2/15/13 08:52 PM, MOSFET wrote: Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

And people who acknowledge that logical absolutes exist.

It's true, belief could be modeled as a either you are or you are not. Indeed, our language does this by the words atheism and theism, but that's just a convention to easily categorize people. I observe people having varied levels of belief and non-belief. There are theists who have their doubts and the are atheists that sometimes wonder if God is real.

Belief is about whether or not you accept a claim to be true. Having doubt would not mean that you don't have belief and wondering if a god exists does not mean that you do have belief. Doubt in a believer's case would merely be uncertainty, but you don't have to be certain in order to hold a belief, you only need to be convinced of it's truth. Certainty can refer to the confidence one has in their belief or it can be more a statement of knowledge, neither of which would mean that lacking certainty means someone does or doesn't accept a claim to be true. Here's an example

"I believe with absolute certainty that X is true"

"I'm not certain, but I still accept that X is true"

While the certainty differs, the belief doesn't, both still contain the same belief, the belief that "X is true".

What if God told a believer to be an atheist in their dream, are they really an atheist, or just some poser?

Then obviously they wouldn't be an atheist if they actually believed there was a god to give them that command in the first place. Trying to hold the position that you don't believe a god exists because a god told you to not believe a god exists is an illogical contradictory position which cannot actually be held. It's like claiming to have eyesight and complete blindness at the same time, both cannot simultaneously be true and both cannot simultaneously be false.


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Response to "Religion is so stupid." Feb. 18th, 2013 @ 09:04 PM

At 1/20/13 02:40 PM, e102delta1379 wrote: anyone who hate's religions can go burn in hell

Not all Religions are bad but not all religions are good either, in fact there will always be bad people in a good religion and good people in a bad religion. Whatever the case, people who haven't already need to treat Religion as a Private Club of Loyalty & Devotion, to who or what matters not so as long as they treat it that way.