Affirmative Action in America

[MagicalManRyan]

Over the past few days the idea of affirmative action has been a highly publicized one. I am no slouch to the subject, as I have written many papers specifically about it, and I understand it fully. I guess what I'm trying to see and gauge is the viewpoint of others upon the subject. Now, I'm not talking about college admissions in particular - I'm talking about it all. Anything that can be applied for/won/given to in this country, should someone's <insert social/cultural minority here> really be held in to account of it? I can understand the reasoning in its conception - minorities would never be able to rise up from their low points were it not for the idea of affirmative action. The question is do we really still need it? Americans have reached a high point in acceptance, and those who would argue against it are unaware of history. The modern day United States is highly liberal in its view of minorities, and while they are not always represented to the maximum amount, they still are carefully guarded and watched over by the majority when compared to most other nations of the world, including the "civilized" ones. In all honesty, anyone willing to work hard enough can achieve what they wish, and isn't it actually MORE racist to tell someone that were it not for them being different, they would have never gotten what they wanted? Should we be so fearful of racism that we actually create reverse racism? Should the honor of achievement be given to best, even if it is given to a white, Protestant male of middle class? Is it racist to look at someone's gender/race/religion/sexual orientation/wealth as a part of their qualification, or is it racist not to? Is it possible to be so accepting of the minority and unaccepting of the majority that the roles become reversed? My opinion on the matter is irrelevant and unimportant, I would just like to see what the most commonly held ideal is. As a majority, how would you feel being accepted over a minority due completely to discriminatory ideals? As a minority, how would you feel being accepted over a more qualified majority due completely to said majority being a majority?

[Warforger]

It's mostly misrepresented I think. Many people can for example go to Harvard or Stanford and do well but don't get in because they're still not as accomplished as other people are. Race can be a factor in deciding if you're going to admit someone, but it cannot be the only factor so the claims that this produces incompetent graduates are far from true. This isn't even mentioning the fact that diversity has shown to create a better environment for school, so Colleges can use that as a reason for accepting more minorities. But some groups seriously don't need it like Asians and now it's actually beginning to benefit whites because so many Asians are going to the good Universities (that's what the recent Affirmative Action case was about, since many universities aim for proportional representation i.e. if your minority is 10% of the population it should be 10% of the school's population).

[Saen]

God almighty use paragraphs you guys.

[Dawnslayer]

I think we need to reform the system and have affirmative action based on nationality. For instance, if you're an American, you have a better chance of getting in, because your education is substandard but it's not your fault.

[Camarohusky]

I'm generally ambivalent on the subject. If affirmative action is considered, as a white male, I merely see that as a higher bar for my entrance. If I'm low enough on the scale to be knocked out by AA, I really wasn't that good, and my rejection would be justified. It does become much more sticky with smaller sized groups though.

I ca see the benefits of going with the best and most qualified people regardless of background. Then again, having gone to a private law school I saw how there was a stark difference between those students who had gone to public undergrad and those wh had gone to private undergrad. Those who went public were more understanding and generally had a far better clue what the world was like and those who went private were not very open minded and had little experience with life outside their upper-middle to upper-class gated community of a bubble.

While this breakdown wasn't along racial lines (as the class was almost entirely white) it's a very good example of how background is HUGE. I sure as hell wouldn't want any of the private school folks representing me. They just wouldn't understand any of my circumstances or how to even approach them. In short, the most qualified on paper is not the same, and many cases hardly similar to, the best.

[Ceratisa]

We have a Black president. I don't think this country requires AA if you can reach the highest office and then get re-elected.

[LemonCrush]

Affirmative action is actually illegal under the civil rights act. I believe it says some thing to the effect that no one should be refused a job because of their skin color right?

In nations where affrimative action is practiced, like India, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, the US and Nigeria, there are somethings that are common among all of them

--They encourage non-preferred groups to redesignate themselves as members of preferred groups to take advantage of group preference policies;

-- They tend to benefit primarily the most fortunate among the preferred group (e.g. black millionaires), often times to the detriment of the least fortunate among the non-preferred groups (e.g. poor whites);

-- They reduce the incentives of both the preferred and non-preferred to perform at their best -- the former because doing so is unnecessary and the latter because it can prove futile -- thereby resulting in net losses for society as a whole; and

-- They engender animosity toward preferred groups as well as on the part of preferred groups themselves, whose main problem in some cases has been their own inadequacy combined with their resentment of non-preferred groups who -- without preferences -- consistently outperform them.

Affirmative action can be summed up thusly, by economist Thomas Sowell " . . . Affirmative action in the United States has made blacks. . .who have largely lifted themselves out of poverty, look like people who owe their rise to affirmative action and other government programs. Moreover, this perception. . .has been carefully cultivated by black politicians and civil rights leaders, who seek to claim credit for the progress, so as to solidify a constituency conditioned to be dependent on them, as well as on government."

And that is perhaps the biggest problem with the entire concept. It fosters an idea of people, in this case, minorities, needing the government. It destroys freedom and strengthens govt. bondage.

[LemonCrush]

At 1/14/13 01:13 AM, Ceratisa wrote: We have a Black president. I don't think this country requires AA if you can reach the highest office and then get re-elected.

He's only half black.

And considering he acts just like any other "racist cracker" who has held the office...

[Tony-DarkGrave]

Affirmative action is illegal and racist. taking race, age, religion into account for a job, admission or whatever is unethical especially when it violates Equal Opportunity and Equal Acts rights, just in the name of diversity and tax incentives?

right..

[LemonCrush]

At 1/14/13 01:40 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Affirmative action is illegal and racist. taking race, age, religion into account for a job, admission or whatever is unethical especially when it violates Equal Opportunity and Equal Acts rights, just in the name of diversity and tax incentives?

right..

There's is actually specific court case from 1965 where a man was turned down for a job because he was white. He sued, and the judge dismissed the case because he said the Civil Rights Act didn't apply to whites, and was specifically tailored to minorities

I can't remember the court case, sadly. It's in the book "Affirmative Action Around the World". A long read, but you won't find a better book on the subject

[Ceratisa]

At 1/14/13 01:38 AM, LemonCrush wrote:

At 1/14/13 01:13 AM, Ceratisa wrote: We have a Black president. I don't think this country requires AA if you can reach the highest office and then get re-elected.

He's only half black.

And considering he acts just like any other "racist cracker" who has held the office...

He's only half black when it suits him..

[LemonCrush]

At 1/14/13 01:45 AM, Ceratisa wrote: He's only half black when it suits him..

Agreed. He claims to be for minorities, despite deporting them in record numbers.

Never trust a lawyer.

Scummy cunt (Obama, not you)

[Kel-chan]

nobody likes a meritocracy....

because most ppl aren't worth the air they breathe

[Warforger]

At 1/14/13 01:40 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Affirmative action is illegal and racist. taking race, age, religion into account for a job, admission or whatever is unethical especially when it violates Equal Opportunity and Equal Acts rights, just in the name of diversity and tax incentives?

right..

The legal reasoning combating segregation were dubious at best. Now while you could argue for Public institutions they were fine, but when they tried making segregation illegal in Private institutions they REALLY stretched the law in order to ban it. This was mostly because the Constitution does not give the government the power to force businesses to admit minorities, and the reasoning the Supreme Court used to say they can was while Private Segregation is legal, if it is near a Federal High way, a state farm or takes advantage of any institution or property of the state then the government can force businesses to de-segregate. Imagine if Obama did the same thing instead he forced all businesses to buy Solar Panels, that would be such a pile of horse shit. It's pretty obvious in this case no one gave a shit what the Founders intended and they were dedicated to de-segregation even if it meant to take unconstitutional approaches. So I'd assume Affirmative Action wouldn't receive as much opposition due to its purpose so it's actually probably more legal than people would think it is, well as long it's not for a Government institution.

But when it comes down to it some people are roughly equal at some things and chances are if someone gets admitted over you due to Affirmative Action then you were pretty low on the list to begin with.

[Ceratisa]

Well forge that really depends in the hiring or admission pool doesn't it? 1 spot available certainly matters.

[leanlifter1]

Affermative Action is bollocks as I think everyone should be extended the same rights, liberties and freedoms by defult. If a Minority group gets an extra benefit than so should the majority get the exact same treatment as well as if the majority have to take it up the ass now and again than so should the minority. Fair is Fair.

[TheKlown]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NDZ4DG-DmE

[Camarohusky]

At 1/15/13 03:51 AM, TheKlown wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NDZ4DG-DmE

That is not an acceptable response.

[LemonCrush]

At 1/15/13 12:09 PM, Camarohusky wrote: That is not an acceptable response.

Why?

[leanlifter1]

At 1/15/13 01:15 PM, LemonCrush wrote:

At 1/15/13 12:09 PM, Camarohusky wrote: That is not an acceptable response.

Why?

Don't worry it's fine he just mad that you did not give him anything to personally attack you about such as grammar, spelling, and personal opinions etc. Thanx for the video man :-)

[Camarohusky]

At 1/15/13 01:15 PM, LemonCrush wrote: Why?

Posting a youtube with no description or summary is not a reponse. Not all people can easily just flip on youtube where they are.

If Klown took the half minute to write a short description of what the video was about it'd be very different.

At 1/15/13 02:18 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Don't worry it's fine he just mad that you did not give him anything to personally attack you about such as grammar, spelling, and personal opinions etc. Thanx for the video man :-)

I don't attack spelling or grammar. I do go after your baseless and unsupportable Alex Jones style conspiracy theory view of reality. And, no. Nobody is on your side.

[leanlifter1]

At 1/15/13 03:02 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

I don't attack spelling or grammar. I do go after your baseless and unsupportable Alex Jones style conspiracy theory

Alex Jones embodies what I dislike about Americans/America

view of reality. And, no. Nobody is on your side.

Most people go with whats popular even if it's wrong and good or bad I don't care about what people think of me and that includes your opinion and others opinion of me here on NGS. Have a nice day :-)

[LemonCrush]

At 1/15/13 03:02 PM, Camarohusky wrote: I don't attack spelling or grammar. I do go after your baseless and unsupportable Alex Jones style conspiracy theory view of reality. And, no. Nobody is on your side.

Actually it was a video about black who vote Democrats being traitors to their race.

He's right.

[morefngdbs]

At 1/14/13 01:13 AM, Ceratisa wrote: We have a Black president. I don't think this country requires AA if you can reach the highest office and then get re-elected.

;;;
Hell !
Allyou gotta do to get that is have some popularity, get the nod & have no problem allowing any bankster to cornhole you & getting on yer knees to service them (no matter what it tastes like) & you too can be the President

Have you looked at Obama's latest picks ?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/obama-s-wall-street-cabinet/132 08

All of them bought & paid for .... & gratefully making sure their bankster masters are rewarded ~;)

[Warforger]

At 1/15/13 04:12 PM, LemonCrush wrote: Actually it was a video about black who vote Democrats being traitors to their race.

He's right.

Not necessarily. Democrats have always been a broad coalition, in fact when they were first created there was an anti-slavery portion of the party which split off to form the Free Soil Party. The thing was that when the Democrats were formed Slavery was mostly a non-issue, when it became an issue the Democratic party fell apart.

But overall igniting historical facts is bullshit, fact is that Democrats have appealed alot more to blacks than Republicans have and the Republicans are beginning to feel the effects of that as their very existence is threatened in the near future where whites are no longer the majority in America.

[LemonCrush]

At 1/15/13 09:45 PM, Warforger wrote: But overall igniting historical facts is bullshit, fact is that Democrats have appealed alot more to blacks than Republicans have and the Republicans are beginning to feel the effects of that as their very existence is threatened in the near future where whites are no longer the majority in America.

The quote/video was Malcolm X...

And he is right. Democrats, historically are some of the most racist people on this earth. Now their hate has shifted to other groups, but still

[Warforger]

At 1/15/13 11:25 PM, LemonCrush wrote: The quote/video was Malcolm X...

And?

And he is right. Democrats, historically are some of the most racist people on this earth.

You know that's why they passed the Civil Rights legislation. Keep in mind Republicans were also racist for most of their existence, hell they passed the Chinese Exclusion acts after all along with all the anti-immigration legilsation in the 20th century.

Now their hate has shifted to other groups, but still

Right, now we have Republicans going around saying "Slavery was a blessing in disguise" and "Evolution is lie from the pit of hell".

[LemonCrush]

At 1/16/13 12:15 AM, Warforger wrote: You know that's why they passed the Civil Rights legislation. Keep in mind Republicans were also racist for most of their existence, hell they passed the Chinese Exclusion acts after all along with all the anti-immigration legilsation in the 20th century.

If you weren't 6 years old, you'd know that Democrats fought Civil Rights tooth and nail. Still are.

Right, now we have Republicans going around saying "Slavery was a blessing in disguise" and "Evolution is lie from the pit of hell".

Great. We also have a democrat president who thinks there's 57 states, and doesn't know how to pronounce Marine Corps.

We also had democrats saying they would like murder George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld.

They're also incredibly violent, homophobic genocide supporters.

What IS your point?

[Camarohusky]

At 1/16/13 01:04 AM, LemonCrush wrote: What IS your point?

Really? You come out with a blanket statement and say Democrats are the most racist people on Earth and then Warforger shows you how Republicans are still infused with extreme amounts of racism and you ask what is his point? You have got to be kidding.

[LemonCrush]

At 1/16/13 01:06 PM, Camarohusky wrote: Really? You come out with a blanket statement and say Democrats are the most racist people on Earth and then Warforger shows you how Republicans are still infused with extreme amounts of racism and you ask what is his point? You have got to be kidding.

Sorry but "The other guys do it too" is not a reasonable response.