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Buying new hybrid cars

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Saen
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Buying new hybrid cars Jan. 6th, 2013 @ 04:51 PM Reply

I'll begin this discussion with a simple question. Which option is better for our environment, buying a brand new fuel efficient Prius, Insight, Etc. or driving around an old truck that gets 12mpg? The old truck every time.

Building new cars of any kind has damaging effects on our environment. Mining, plastic construction, rare metal extraction, etc. are all damaging our environment in various ways. In the case of hybrid cars, the metals that are used in the batteries (Nickel Hydroxide or Lithium-Ion batteries) are heavy metal and quite toxic. When mining these metals, especially nickel, runoff causes remnants to seep into the area causing irreversible damage.

Knowing this, shouldn't car companies be encouraged (offered incentives) to increase the amount of recycled material used in new car production or selling refurbished old cars and trucks?

I really like the refurbishing old cars method, because that's actually a method of reuse, much more effective than recycling. So by refurbishing old cars I mean restore the car to near factory condition while adding features than will help the car compete in the modern market. Features such as a modernized engine, gps technology, climate control, etc. I know there are already some small private companies which do this such as Icon, but why aren't major car companies doing this on a less luxurious and expensive scale? Probably because of the increased cost.

So this is where government incentives come in. Using these incentives to encourage older car refurbishing, we create job positions, an entirely new mass market vehicle line-up, and reduce the need for obtaining raw materials.

Personally I think older cars were built much with higher quality materials than today's cars and look gorgeous, so it's a plus for me that by encouraging restoration of these vehicles our country also reduces unemployment and environmental degradation.

Thoughts?

Camarohusky
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Response to Buying new hybrid cars Jan. 6th, 2013 @ 08:00 PM Reply

Hold the phone here.

Yes, the hybrid batteries cause nasty stuff to be released into the air, but a 12mpg truck (especially an old one) will release a shit ton (literally, if you drop the shit) of nasty stuff into the air over its lifetime. It becomes a comparison between a short fart of really toxic air, or a long steady flow of semi-toxic air. The short fart may be nasty, but at least it is small (per car). The fumes of the truck may be cleaner (how clean depends on the age) the pure amount of the semi-polluted air causes more harm over a longer period of time making the truck worse.

If the option was between a 25mpg sedan of less than 10 years old, then absolutely, hybrid is worse.

Saen
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Response to Buying new hybrid cars Jan. 6th, 2013 @ 08:32 PM Reply

At 1/6/13 08:00 PM, Camarohusky wrote: Hold the phone here.

Yes, the hybrid batteries cause nasty stuff to be released into the air, but a 12mpg truck (especially an old one) will release a shit ton (literally, if you drop the shit) of nasty stuff into the air over its lifetime. It becomes a comparison between a short fart of really toxic air, or a long steady flow of semi-toxic air. The short fart may be nasty, but at least it is small (per car). The fumes of the truck may be cleaner (how clean depends on the age) the pure amount of the semi-polluted air causes more harm over a longer period of time making the truck worse.

If the option was between a 25mpg sedan of less than 10 years old, then absolutely, hybrid is worse.

It seems that you missed the point here. To build ANY new car, it requires literally tons of raw materials, acquiring those tons of materials is what damages the environment. This isn't even including the pollution released from mining dump trucks, excavators, etc. to mine and transport the materials. Then refinement and smelting of ore is next, building a new car is a very environmentally damaging process. This process is even more straining for hybrid cars. Not only do you need the steel and aluminum to build the engine, you need the nickel for the batteries.

The point im making is buying any internal combustion used car is much better for the environment than buying any internal combustion new car. That's why I made the comparison between and old gas guzzler and a new hybrid.

To make the used car market of refurbished old cars (20+ years) more attractive for consumers in the market to buy a "new" car, I introduced the idea of government incentives for car companies to restore these older cars.

kakalxlax
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Response to Buying new hybrid cars Jan. 7th, 2013 @ 04:10 PM Reply

why not full electric?


Its only rape if you say no.

Say no to rape.

Camarohusky
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Response to Buying new hybrid cars Jan. 7th, 2013 @ 07:16 PM Reply

At 1/7/13 04:10 PM, kakalxlax wrote: why not full electric?

Most of the US' electricity comes from buring oil, gas, and coal. So, on the whole, electricity isn't much cleaner than combustion. Not to mention the massive amount of cheap new energy that would be needed to convert just a noticeable chunk of cars to the grid. This will push the demand for the burning fuels even higher as they are the cheapest to build and run.

Ceratisa
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Response to Buying new hybrid cars Jan. 7th, 2013 @ 10:43 PM Reply

But like 80% of my state is hydroelectric and other renewables, so what about me?

Saen
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Response to Buying new hybrid cars Jan. 7th, 2013 @ 11:07 PM Reply

At 1/7/13 04:10 PM, kakalxlax wrote: why not full electric?

Because natural gas-powered engines seem to be the next system that will take over the ICE. As battery technology keeps improving every 2 years, electric battery powered vehicles will become less expensive and more attractive.

Also by refurbishing older cars, a company can strip out and recycle the old engine and place in whatever power source a company feels like, whether its an electric motor, ICE, or natural gas compression. Since most of all of these older cars have much more volume under the hood and in the trunk, switching out engine systems will be a breeze, especially since modernized engines are much more compact than those of 20+ years ago.

Saen
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Response to Buying new hybrid cars Jan. 7th, 2013 @ 11:14 PM Reply

At 1/7/13 07:16 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 1/7/13 04:10 PM, kakalxlax wrote: why not full electric?
Most of the US' electricity comes from buring oil, gas, and coal. So, on the whole, electricity isn't much cleaner than combustion. Not to mention the massive amount of cheap new energy that would be needed to convert just a noticeable chunk of cars to the grid. This will push the demand for the burning fuels even higher as they are the cheapest to build and run.

But an electric motor is currently 4 times more energy efficient than the most efficient ICE. Not only that, most of these cars will be charged at night, a time at which millions of kilowatts of electricity are produced and wasted. So if we saw any good portion of the country switch to electric vehicles, it would significantly reduce tons and tons of CO2 emissions.