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American Guns - Cancelled

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Xenomit
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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 18th, 2012 @ 11:19 PM Reply

At 12/18/12 11:17 PM, Rational-Delirium wrote: Guns on the other hand, can be owned by most.

Only if you get the proper background checks

What don't you people get about that. If you have criminals getting them illegally while they're legal, then you're gonna have criminals getting them illegally while they're illegal.

But it's pointless to try to get you to understand the importance of guns in America.


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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 18th, 2012 @ 11:20 PM Reply

I do not understaad how a show about guns has anything to do with some random shooting.


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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 18th, 2012 @ 11:21 PM Reply

At 12/18/12 11:20 PM, GrizzlyOne wrote: I do not understaad how a show about guns has anything to do with some random shooting.

Moral guardians probably think that a tv show about guns make people go on random shooting sprees somehow.

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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 18th, 2012 @ 11:22 PM Reply

At 12/18/12 11:19 PM, Xenomit wrote:
What don't you people get about that. If you have criminals getting them illegally while they're legal, then you're gonna have criminals getting them illegally while they're illegal.

But it's pointless to try to get you to understand the importance of guns in America.

this doesn't make them a good thing

it makes them a bad thing you can't get rid of

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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 18th, 2012 @ 11:24 PM Reply

At 12/18/12 11:22 PM, JaY11 wrote: it makes them a bad thing

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I love guns, and I look at things from a positive perspective. They don't kill people, they level the playing field.

you can't get rid of

I know I'm not gonna get rid of mine. Ever.


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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 18th, 2012 @ 11:28 PM Reply

At 12/18/12 11:24 PM, Xenomit wrote:
At 12/18/12 11:22 PM, JaY11 wrote: it makes them a bad thing
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I love guns, and I look at things from a positive perspective. They don't kill people, they level the playing field.

uhh, yeah, but having a 'playing field' to have to level out in the first place certainly doesn't sound like a positive thing to me

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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 18th, 2012 @ 11:30 PM Reply

At 12/18/12 11:13 PM, JaY11 wrote: How do you think crimes actually happen in reality? Do you think someone who is planning on actually murdering or robbing someone loudly announces that they are approaching with a weapon, giving our heroic elderly person a chance to withdraw and aim his gun? And adding a second deadly weapon into the scenario makes the situation better?

Yet here we are, with justifiable homicide still existing through self defense, with the majority involving firearms. Not to mention the actual deterrent of the person merely brandishing the weapon. Or just injuring the person. It exists. People just don't give a fuck about the story where guy breaks in, gets shot, goes to jail. The end. Now, if it was guy breaks in, kills homeowner, gets away/caught, you can be guaranteed that shit is all over the local news.

and yeah crimes with weapons that aren't guns are totally on the same level

0 deaths
27 deaths

Shit, what was the deadliest school killing in the US again?

One of my "favorites" (God I hate putting it like this) was the one where the guy decided to just take a DIY flamethrower and killed a dozen or so people before he decided to leg it and was eventually apprehended.

THANK YOU GUNS

RIght, because deaths magically disappear when guns go away. Yes, massacres are harder to have occur, except oddly, it seems to be only a rather recent phenomenon to have be common place, after virtually anyone could just go and buy one of those super scary fully automatic weapons.

At 12/18/12 11:14 PM, Xenomit wrote: I'm getting this for myself come christmas day

I'm thinking about getting a CMMG AR-15, some shitty AK knockoff, and a .22 in the next few months.

At 12/18/12 11:09 PM, BumFodder wrote: Thats a pretty sensationalist and interesting take on things. I know the USA has a higher crime rate but its hardly anything absurd. I know people take self-protection more seriously over there and thats fine, but I dont really like "what if x was under attack and needed a gun" kind of arguments because theyre completely hypothetical with lots of variables and you can keep asking different ones variants over and over and it doesnt get anyone anywhere.

No, it is not a little bit sensationalist. That's why crime still occurs in these places where guns are taken away. These situations are not hypothetical, they happen daily. They just don't get reported because death sells. Did you hear about the attempted movie this week that was stopped (And yes, he was just shooting people at random) by an off duty officer who gunned the fucker down? Probably not, because when these crimes are stopped, nobody is there to load up body bags. The reason people are able to say "When has a massacre ever been stopped by somebody with a gun?" is because they are stopped before they become massacres. Look at violent crime rates of any country, anywhere. Gun control. No gun control. Look at places crime rates before and after the ban.

I dont know why you are bringing those kind of people up because theyve got nothing to do with what I said. In fact using a semi-auto is more deadly because aimed shots would be more deadly than random spray. But still full auto is more likely to cause accidents but I dont know if there are any figures that compare those two anywhere anyway.

I am bringing this up in response to your not being a sociologist comment. It is the people who are using their gut reaction and their preconceived misconceptions to try to justify the outlawing of firearms.

Im not going on about banning them why are you mentioning that constantly.

Because this is one of those topics where it is a very slippery slope. Except for background checks at 100% of all purchases, and the extremely uncostly mental health screenings, there is simply no real solution to the problem that does not being the teetering on the edge of this slope.


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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 18th, 2012 @ 11:34 PM Reply

At 12/18/12 05:03 PM, Ilssm wrote:
What do you guys think?

i hope people would shut up about the shooting and move on with their lives, instead of trying to convince others that according to source S (that does not even have any statistical significane), X should be Y'ed because of Z, or A would not have happened if B.


^Just another nonsensical forum post.^

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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 18th, 2012 @ 11:36 PM Reply

At 12/18/12 11:28 PM, JaY11 wrote:
At 12/18/12 11:24 PM, Xenomit wrote:
At 12/18/12 11:22 PM, JaY11 wrote: it makes them a bad thing
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I love guns, and I look at things from a positive perspective. They don't kill people, they level the playing field.
uhh, yeah, but having a 'playing field' to have to level out in the first place certainly doesn't sound like a positive thing to me

In America, there will always be a playing field to level out. Always. No matter what. If you ban guns, (which if they do, by the way, I can and will shoot and kill anyone that attempts to take my guns from me) then you're just taking them away from people and giving them to criminals.

There will always be a playing field in America, and guns level said playing field.

I'm telling you, you foreigners think you know something about America, but you don't.


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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 18th, 2012 @ 11:42 PM Reply

At 12/18/12 11:36 PM, Xenomit wrote: There will always be a playing field in America, and guns level said playing field.

I'm telling you, you foreigners think you know something about America, but you don't.

I'm not denying any part of this. I'm saying it's not a good thing.

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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 18th, 2012 @ 11:43 PM Reply

Great, the media blew the this all kinds of out of proportion about guns, and now a huge backlash will occur on the Gun industry, not that it won't bounce back in a few months but it's a shame those guys are losing jobs over this shit. *sigh* Funny, we live directly above a country with enough illegal firearms to fight a small war yet people think guns will just "vanish" by making them illegal. At least it will clean up small gangs from forming, clearing out the small fries as competition for the larger real gangs and cartels, I can only speculate what harsh gun regulations might do to the larger cartels, but I can imagine it would benefit them more than hurt, not that I'm an expert, so I won't try to make much of a stance. Just a shame people had to lose their jobs over this, that's all.


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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 18th, 2012 @ 11:44 PM Reply

At 12/18/12 11:43 PM, HollowedPumkinz wrote: Great, the media blew the this all kinds of out of proportion about guns, and now a huge backlash will occur on the Gun industry, not that it won't bounce back in a few months but it's a shame those guys are losing jobs over this shit.

Nah, I think this is just going to be a huge boost to their sales. I was in my local store the other day and that place was fucking packed, with many of their weapons out of stock. I mean shit, they used to have a rotating display dedicated to AK variants and they were all gone.


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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 18th, 2012 @ 11:45 PM Reply

At 12/18/12 11:30 PM, RacistBassist wrote: That's why crime still occurs in these places where guns are taken away

Whats taking away guns got to do with what I said?

These situations are not hypothetical, they happen daily. They just don't get reported because death sells.

I dont think you get what I meant. I meant the kind of thing people do where they change a hypothetical situation over and over everytime you answer it until they can catch you out but youre not doing that so it doesnt matter. Also im not denying they happen everyday.

Did you hear about the attempted movie this week that was stopped (And yes, he was just shooting people at random) by an off duty officer who gunned the fucker down? Probably not, because when these crimes are stopped, nobody is there to load up body bags.

Well of course I wont have heard of it because I dont live in america so they dont report every little thing about it 24/7. Im not denying there are good uses of guns as well as bad, which is why Im not saying they should be banned. Its just that there should be something else done to try to edge into the 'legal owners who do use weapons illegally' category a bit more.

The reason people are able to say "When has a massacre ever been stopped by somebody with a gun?" is because they are stopped before they become massacres. Look at violent crime rates of any country, anywhere. Gun control. No gun control. Look at places crime rates before and after the ban.

Like where for example?

I am bringing this up in response to your not being a sociologist comment. It is the people who are using their gut reaction and their preconceived misconceptions to try to justify the outlawing of firearms.

What have those people got to do with me?

Because this is one of those topics where it is a very slippery slope. Except for background checks at 100% of all purchases, and the extremely uncostly mental health screenings, there is simply no real solution to the problem that does not being the teetering on the edge of this slope.

Slippery slope of rights vs crime? I know there is no simple solution and I did type that, but thats hardly a reason to stop looking for a solution. If it were that easy to find solutions then society would be near-perfect by now.

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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 19th, 2012 @ 12:36 AM Reply

At 12/18/12 11:45 PM, BumFodder wrote: Whats taking away guns got to do with what I said?

Sorry you're getting a lot of flak from me lol. I do not mean to direct everything directly towards you

Well of course I wont have heard of it because I dont live in america so they dont report every little thing about it 24/7. Im not denying there are good uses of guns as well as bad, which is why Im not saying they should be banned. Its just that there should be something else done to try to edge into the 'legal owners who do use weapons illegally' category a bit more.

Woah, I always thought you were an American. Odd.

Like where for example?

California. Illinois. The states with a "shall issue" approach to CPLs. The correlation between crime rates dropping, and gun sales/CPL rates rising.

What have those people got to do with me?

It wasn't meant personally for you lol. I was referring to the people such as the Brady Campaign.

Slippery slope of rights vs crime? I know there is no simple solution and I did type that, but thats hardly a reason to stop looking for a solution. If it were that easy to find solutions then society would be near-perfect by now.

This is the problem I have. Everybody is, as others have put it, attacking the symptom and not the actual problem. Sure, it is extremely easy for them to blame guns, but that, when all is said and done, does not do a damn thing to help solve things such as our mental health problem which I would say is a much bigger concern then people who are hellbent on causing harm using something that's intrinsically neutral.


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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 19th, 2012 @ 12:45 AM Reply

At 12/19/12 12:36 AM, RacistBassist wrote: Sorry you're getting a lot of flak from me lol. I do not mean to direct everything directly towards you

thats fine

Woah, I always thought you were an American. Odd.

lol

California. Illinois. The states with a "shall issue" approach to CPLs. The correlation between crime rates dropping, and gun sales/CPL rates rising.

Yeah but im just wondering what direct connection all three have. I mean if there are more concealed gun carries and guns in general I dont think thats going to keep a career criminal from committing crimes just like that so there must be more to it than that. I guess you could say that a criminal who has been threatened by a gun might stop but I doubt the amount of criminals who have experienced that is enough to bring it down if you get what I mean.

This is the problem I have. Everybody is, as others have put it, attacking the symptom and not the actual problem. Sure, it is extremely easy for them to blame guns, but that, when all is said and done, does not do a damn thing to help solve things such as our mental health problem which I would say is a much bigger concern then people who are hellbent on causing harm using something that's intrinsically neutral.

Yeah thats what im trying to say too, but just with the added part that it wouldnt hurt if guns were a bit harder to get. Not loads, but hopefully it might skim a few off of the top of the people who may do such things.

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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 19th, 2012 @ 12:48 AM Reply

At 12/19/12 12:45 AM, BumFodder wrote: Yeah thats what im trying to say too, but just with the added part that it wouldnt hurt if guns were a bit harder to get. Not loads, but hopefully it might skim a few off of the top of the people who may do such things.

Honestly, as long as I can still get military grade weapons, I don't care how tight they make their checks, because I've never committed a crime in my life, and I've always passed the mental health exams.


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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 19th, 2012 @ 12:59 AM Reply

At 12/18/12 05:15 PM, Xenomit wrote: the average soccer mom will flip shit over anything that has anything to do with an isolated event.

Soccer Mom: ''Oh Gawrd... I'm flipping out over shit like the shooter!'' *suicides*


You do not make examples, you make excuses; you do not solve problems, you shift problems; you do not stand behind your statements, you stand behind your stasis.

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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 19th, 2012 @ 12:59 AM Reply

At 12/19/12 12:59 AM, Insanctuary wrote:
At 12/18/12 05:15 PM, Xenomit wrote: the average soccer mom will flip shit over anything that has anything to do with an isolated event.
Soccer Mom: ''Oh Gawrd... I'm flipping out over shit like the shooter!'' *suicides*

Oh FUCKING GOD NO


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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 19th, 2012 @ 01:02 AM Reply

At 12/19/12 12:48 AM, Xenomit wrote: Honestly, as long as I can still get military grade weapons, I don't care how tight they make their checks, because I've never committed a crime in my life, and I've always passed the mental health exams.

As long as you know how to handle your guns and you dont shoot anyone thats fine lol

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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 19th, 2012 @ 01:05 AM Reply

At 12/19/12 12:59 AM, Xenomit wrote: Oh FUCKING GOD NO

Calm your furry teats son. I agree with you. All of the anti-gun pansies should read up on Switzerland... There is very low crime rate and very high gun power. In fact. It's a fucking gun capital. They even teach you how to use those babies in school. Switzerland has the balls America never did have.


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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 19th, 2012 @ 03:56 AM Reply

Discovery should go back to non-stop animal shows. NatWild has taken over for me because they have decent animal shows.

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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 19th, 2012 @ 04:01 AM Reply

Fuck learning. Give me my mindless entertainment instead!

American Guns - Cancelled


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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 19th, 2012 @ 07:30 AM Reply

At 12/18/12 10:53 PM, Xenomit wrote: We keep guns around to remind our government that we're in charge, not a bunch of guys in suits.

tehe. You can not be serious.

At 12/18/12 11:13 PM, JaY11 wrote:
0 deaths
27 deaths

THANK YOU GUNS

I was going to point that out too, there's been a couple of people who've incorrectly been saying "look at china someone killed 22 school kids with a KNIFE". That didn't happen. The whole point is that when a lunatic goes on a rampage with a knife people are less likely to die.


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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 19th, 2012 @ 07:50 AM Reply

At 12/19/12 04:01 AM, EmmaVolt wrote: Fuck learning. Give me my mindless entertainment instead!

Indeed, you have hit the nail on its ugly head.


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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 19th, 2012 @ 08:56 AM Reply

At 12/19/12 04:01 AM, EmmaVolt wrote: Fuck learning. Give me my mindless entertainment instead!

Where did you get that picture because its interesting and im wondering if there are some for other countries.

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Response to American Guns - Cancelled Dec. 19th, 2012 @ 01:36 PM Reply

At 12/18/12 11:28 PM, JaY11 wrote: uhh, yeah, but having a 'playing field' to have to level out in the first place certainly doesn't sound like a positive thing to me

That's part of humanity and always will be. It's like complaining about the sky being blue.