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Americans need how many deaths to understand ?

At 1/9/13 06:15 PM, Ceratisa wrote:

At 1/9/13 04:03 PM, Susanowoo wrote: Americans need how many deaths to understand ?

Understand what? That criminals do not obey gun laws?

;;;
Which is really not getting any airplay to speak of.

The guy murdered the gun owner ,which happened to also be his mom & stole her guns & then went on a murderous rampage !

So while there have been other cases where the shooter had used their own guns.
In this case it is actually a bit different, where at least 2 crimes were commited before he went to the school !

At 1/9/13 04:03 PM, Susanowoo wrote: Americans need how many deaths to understand ?

Odd, I was unaware that death, let alone murder, just magically disappears when if we got rid of firearms

At 12/31/12 07:26 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 12/31/12 03:15 PM, RacistBassist wrote:

This whole idea od "People should have guns JUST IN CASE" is nothing more than mass paranoia and that's what is REALLY wrong with people in this country. So damn afraid of everyone all the time.

No, it is not mass paranoia. It's called being prepared.

The difference between mass paranoia and being prepared is a very thin, but very clear line. That line lies where the effort to stop the harm is equal to or less than the chance of such a harm to occur. As the chance is so low even a grain of sand towers over it, any significant effort, such as giving guns to teachers, is going to fall on the paranoia side.

Here's the thing...I think you're wrong here in your estimation of what the chance of harm is in letting teachers carry. In fact, if this is your measure than your acceptance of armed police officers (ie: resource officers) in school is even more paranoid than those of us who think we should arm teachers! A long time ago I posted a study that showed that there are less injuries when a civilian pulls their firearm than when a cop pulls their's. I believe it was in about 2.5% of cases when a civilian pulls a gun someone gets hurt compared to 5% for when a cop pulls their gun.

Furthermore, despite the number of guns in the US increaasing from 1904...accidents with them have decreased by about 95%.

Finally, we have over 30 years of data from CCW states showing that people carrying weapons does not result in more death or mayhem.

So I think you wildly overstate the risk.

At 1/10/13 10:12 AM, Ceratisa wrote: To be fair cops are taught shoot to kill. But the point you made remains valid mason.

Cops and soldiers are taught to shoot center-mass...the same as people are taught when obtaining their CCW.

The reality is that the training required for using a firearm in self-defense is not as Jedi-like as people who are unfamiliar with firearms believe it is.

You know...the thing that pisses me off the most is we cannot have a reasonable discussion about this. The Left is throwing about terms like "assault clips", "sanity", "sane/reasonable gun laws" along with the MYTH that any military small arm smaller than a .50 cal machine gun is this extra-lethal killing machine when:

* The 9mm is a sub-par and low-powered pistol round.
* Assault rifles shoot a round that is NOT high powered.
* Military ammo is the least destructive ammo to living things.
* Sniper rifles are the same exact thing as hunting rifles with the exception of a few (and least often used) highly specialized .50 sniper rifles.

I mean daily I see misinformation spewed from activists, legislators, and punditry. I don't think they are all bad...and in fact I acknowledge that their questions and opinions are reasonable...

...but they are reasonable so far as they are ignorant of that of which they speak. Ergo since what they say is based on ignorance and devoid of knowledge thier reasonable opinions more often than lead them to erroneous assumptions that are rooted more in fear and emotion than logic and knowledge...

...whereby their reasonable opinions thus deduced are rendered irrational.

At 1/10/13 10:43 AM, Ceratisa wrote: No what I'm saying is civs can often draw their weapon and the situation doesn't escalate.
But if police fire they aren't ever doing it to intimidate.

Even still...not true. Part of CCW training and any tactical training be it for military, law enforcement or self-defense...the first underlying core principle is if you pull your gun you HAVE to pull it with the intention of shooting the threat.

The key difference comes down to right to pursue. A cop has the discretion on whether or not to pursue an attacker who decides to flee. Myself as a private citizen has no such right. If someone breaks into my house I'm locking myself in my bedroom and racking a round in my shotgun. At that point 98% of criminals will flee. Once he exits my home and I do not have reasonable fear for my life (and/or property if you're in a Castle Doctrine state)...I may not pick up my deer rifle (which is the same thing as a military or law enforcement sniper rifle BTW) and shoot the guy. Nor should I attempt to follow and aprehend the suspect.

A cop can if he wants to (and no...he does not have a legal obligation to...just a moral duty). And this is probably the chief variable that counts for the difference. If not for this...then cops would carry equal risk to harm befall others than a teacher carrying. Which still disproves Camaro's point. :)

Americans are so stubborn, just an easy way to stop everything

Abolish guns

Abolish death penalty

Only Army and Police should have the right to have one

Look in Europe , it nevers happens so much.

Easy solution to an easy problem

At 1/10/13 03:46 PM, Susanowoo wrote: Americans are so stubborn, just an easy way to stop everything

...

Easy solution to an easy problem

What are you five?

It is not an easy problem...and your 'easy solution' will not fix things.

First of all...this is not all that common of an occurrence. Our crime rates are not so dissimilar from Europes and other developed countries (sorry...but that is actually statistical analysis and not naive thought experiments). Even these mass shootings are not really all that common.

Secondly, when you look at the root causes they have nothing to do with guns. It is rooted in social dynamics and economics...not any inanimate object. If these issues are not addressed...then the problem will never be 'solved'.

Not even abolishing guns would do anything. We have a very pourous border through which criminal enterprises have developed extremely complex systems of trafficking drugs and even humans through.

So I'm sorry...stay in France and keep your ignorant and uninformed opinions to yourself.

Another shooting happened but this time it was because a Bully was being allowed to pick on a kid at school and the Liberal Teachers let the bullying go on right in front of their face. Some kid in California was going after only people that bullied him, he even said he didn't want to harm anyone else except the people who bullied him. That Bully should learn a lesson now, since he is in critical condition but I think he'll pull through. Stop picking people because of your own insecurities Bullies!

At 1/10/13 03:46 PM, Susanowoo wrote: Easy solution to an easy problem

Amen Brother.