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At 12/16/12 07:40 PM, Otto wrote:

At 12/16/12 07:38 PM, II2none wrote:

At 12/16/12 07:27 PM, Otto wrote:

Yeah we should make sure all the kids have guns aswell then nobody will come and shoot up a school ever again

shit that is such a good idea to give everyone a gun so that nobody ever shoots anyone, fuck yeah

...Yeah cause i'm TOTALLY for teaching how to use guns to first graders, yes otto that's EXACTLY what I'm arguing.

But fact is you don't want to subscribe to a vision of an America where first graders have zero access to a gun. Face it.

Your right I don't, because:

Most people are sane and reasonable

It's unnecessary

It's never going to happen regardless

I'm not going to let fear run my life

At 12/16/12 02:23 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: If the europeans want to throw in they're 2 cents they should see both sides of the arguement before spewing they're liberal garbage endorsed by the UN. Firearms made america what it is a free country from oppressors,

It's not even liberal, the American right outside of America isn't seen as conservative rather a radical political stance that most people couldn't comprehend still existing.

Muh freedom

the strongest nation in earth

Lol, what?

There is more to firearms than killing. My uncle competitivly shoots at Camp Perry, I hunt use it for self defense anax carry in public because I have a clean record and am licensed.

But violent crimes committed with firearms severely outweigh instances in which firearms are used in self defense? Who cares if some people use guns for good when so many more use them for bad?

The only downside to eliminating firearms is all the gun owners who would commit crimes in attempts to not having their guns seized.

At 12/16/12 08:00 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote:

Who cares if some people use guns for good when so many more use them for bad?

That's a lie.

At 12/16/12 08:02 PM, II2none wrote:

At 12/16/12 08:00 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote:

Who cares if some people use guns for good when so many more use them for bad?

That's a lie.

That's wrong

Provide no argument for why it is or research to thwart my statement.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research /gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use/index.html

Read it and weep, if guns had any positive benefit for America the nation wouldn't have so much gun related crime in general. The only argument for guns I have seen this entire thread is "it is my right" and "what if we get attacked."

At 12/16/12 08:00 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote: It's not even liberal, the American right outside of America isn't seen as conservative rather a radical political stance that most people couldn't comprehend still existing.

So, so true. America is still very backwards culturally whereas Europe, the rest of the western world, east Asia and other developed countries have moved on. Even South Africa is catching up.

At 12/16/12 07:29 PM, Ryanson wrote: The solution is simple: ban living.

Make sure you ban their souls too.

At 12/16/12 08:00 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote: But violent crimes committed with firearms severely outweigh instances in which firearms are used in self defense? Who cares if some people use guns for good when so many more use them for bad?

Those people committing the crimes will commit them regardless of a firearm or not. I mean seriously, just look at countries pre ban compared to post ban. The only thing that happens is firearm related incidents go down (Well, some places have oddly been going up, who knew criminals wouldn't follow the laws?), while incidents involving other weapons increase, as well as crime overall.

The only downside to eliminating firearms is all the gun owners who would commit crimes in attempts to not having their guns seized.

Molon Labe.

At 12/16/12 08:05 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote: Provide no argument for why it is or research to thwart my statement.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research /gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use/index.html

Read it and weep, if guns had any positive benefit for America the nation wouldn't have so much gun related crime in general. The only argument for guns I have seen this entire thread is "it is my right" and "what if we get attacked."

I agree that in no way is it positive for so many people to have access to guns, the only exception being gun hobbyists who know their safety and its serious business. Only problem is how do they get guns while other people dont?

At 12/16/12 08:10 PM, RacistBassist wrote: Those people committing the crimes will commit them regardless of a firearm or not.

Organized criminals will still commit crimes and have access to firearms purchased illegally, sure. Yet somehow first world nations with firearm bans have significantly lower crime rates in general. Maybe guns help people commit violent crimes?

I mean seriously, just look at countries pre ban compared to post ban. The only thing that happens is firearm related incidents go down (Well, some places have oddly been going up, who knew criminals wouldn't follow the laws?), while incidents involving other weapons increase, as well as crime overall.

Except the UK's overall firearm homicide and homicide rate has decreased since it's ban of firearms. Even adjusted per capita it's nowhere near as bad as the US.

Molon Labe.

Sounds like a great way to create jobs for Merica.

At 12/16/12 08:05 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote: Read it and weep, if guns had any positive benefit for America the nation wouldn't have so much gun related crime in general. The only argument for guns I have seen this entire thread is "it is my right" and "what if we get attacked."

All that tells me is that guns are use as a deterrent, which is good. I for one would want some would be criminal who threatens my life or property to know before he does so that I am armed and would not be afraid to take the law into my own hands if need be, which i can do under Castle law.

At 12/16/12 08:10 PM, BumFodder wrote: I agree that in no way is it positive for so many people to have access to guns, the only exception being gun hobbyists who know their safety and its serious business. Only problem is how do they get guns while other people dont?

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/police-woman-shot-intruder-9-
times-in-self-defense/nFB7g/

At 12/16/12 08:14 PM, RacistBassist wrote: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/police-woman-shot-intruder-9-
times-in-self-defense/nFB7g/

Wow, an isolated incident in which guns had a positive effect. Lets give everyone a gun.

At 12/16/12 08:13 PM, All-American-Badass wrote: All that tells me is that guns are use as a deterrent, which is good.

Then you have serious issues in regards to reading comprehension.

At 12/16/12 08:13 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote: Organized criminals will still commit crimes and have access to firearms purchased illegally, sure. Yet somehow first world nations with firearm bans have significantly lower crime rates in general. Maybe guns help people commit violent crimes?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-
country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

Except the UK's overall firearm homicide and homicide rate has decreased since it's ban of firearms. Even adjusted per capita it's nowhere near as bad as the US.

And what happened to its other crime rates?

At 12/16/12 08:15 PM, BumFodder wrote: Wow, an isolated incident in which guns had a positive effect. Lets give everyone a gun.

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp#crime

Ok, how about this? I was using that one example because I particularly liked the story because of the curtain rod bit.

At 12/16/12 08:19 PM, RacistBassist wrote: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-
country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

Are you seriously implying the daily mail is a credible source?

Also, ive seen this stupid article before, the uk counts a lot more things as violent crime than the other countries do, which is why the data is skewed in such an absurdly unbelievable way. Using statistics like this is what the daily mail does in its sleep, and what idiots use to justify their idiotic positions.

At 12/16/12 08:15 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote:

At 12/16/12 08:13 PM, All-American-Badass wrote: All that tells me is that guns are use as a deterrent, which is good.

Then you have serious issues in regards to reading comprehension.

I see a bunch of "Guns are used to intimidate" Which tells me it's used as a deterrent, whether or not the publishers wanted to convey what i interpreted from that is up for debate but i gave my two cents.

At 12/16/12 08:19 PM, RacistBassist wrote: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-
country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
And what happened to its other crime rates?

http://www.juancole.com/2012/07/58-murders-a-year-by-firearm s-in-britain-8775-in-us.html
http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/United-Kingdom/United-St ates/Crime

Significantly less than the US in all categories outside of standard assault which has no sort of textbook definition in the UK.

At 12/16/12 08:23 PM, BumFodder wrote:

At 12/16/12 08:19 PM, RacistBassist wrote: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-
country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

and what idiots use to justify their idiotic positions.

It's as if you're forgetting who you're responding to, were you expecting something different from a conservative American?

As a Canadian who owns 4 different firearms, I say fuck gun control, because it's bull shit and has nothing to do with crime and homicidal decreasing stats. Just ordered a scoped Enfield 30-06 for $250 that came with ammo.

I have a PAL and it's not like cops gonna raid my house anytime soon. There were several raids against registered owners inside the cities. Fucking shit. And yet, they can't still stop the gangbang. Owning a long gun seems to have more pain than a pistol. I could kiss Stephen Harpers full mouth for deleting the long gun registration off the fed database.

In Ontario, they treat gun owners like criminals.

At 12/16/12 08:35 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote: http://www.juancole.com/2012/07/58-murders-a-year-by-firearm s-in-britain-8775-in-us.html

Amazingly, even with such low access to firearms, murders are still somehow committed over there.

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/United-Kingdom/United-St ates/Crime

Significantly less than the US in all categories outside of standard assault which has no sort of textbook definition in the UK.

Uh, did you even read the link you posted?

conservative

You don't know me bitch.

I'm anything but a conservative lol.

At 12/16/12 08:35 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote: It's as if you're forgetting who you're responding to, were you expecting something different from a conservative American?

Yeah lol. Not to mention I just looked at it again and the bottom ones are actually pretty good. The statistics seem to imply that the rate per 100k and EU ranking are from the same statistic, which they most likely arent considering this is the daily mail. Rate per 100k is the rate per 100k people, EU ranking might mean in total instead of per 100k (I wouldnt be surprised considering its the daily mail). If that were true then robberies and burglaries would be in line and murders way lower.

If it isnt true and the per 100k and EU ranking are from the same statistic, then the UK would still be below what is expected. Countries with a higher population tend to be higher in crime per head anyway compared to similar countries (such as the countries in the EU), so the UK is still pretty much where it is expected except for murders where it is far lower.

The statistics above those 3 about the number of crimes and per 100k residents is very obviously and very definitely a load of daily mail bullshit though for several reasons which I stated in my other post.

At 12/16/12 08:42 PM, RacistBassist wrote:

At 12/16/12 08:35 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote:

Amazingly, even with such low access to firearms, murders are still somehow committed over there.

Murders in the UK are lower than those in the US, not once was it stated in this thread getting rid of guns would get rid of murder. That's just human nature, guns are an artificial and alarmingly effective means of killing other people. As demonstrated Friday.

Uh, did you even read the link you posted?

Read enough to know with strict gun control crime rates in the UK are lower, especially firearm related crime.

I'm anything but a conservative lol.

You gave off the aura of a true American conservative, being an idiot.

A handful of muslim extremists killed thousands of people with nothing but boxcutters. If someone is determined to cause mass carnage they don't need guns.

At 12/16/12 08:48 PM, JonWB2005 wrote: A handful of muslim extremists killed thousands of people with nothing but boxcutters. If someone is determined to cause mass carnage they don't need guns.

Yeah but not everyone plans to murder. If a person felt like doing it on the spur of the moment theyd be way more likely to do it if they had a gun.

Id still say that guns go both ways when planning though, it might give the person more confidence while planning, but its obviously a put-off if the person you want to murder has a gun too.

pew pew

At 12/16/12 08:56 PM, Onepiece285 wrote: pew pew

Prop to Urban-Champion. Too bad he got banned.

At 12/16/12 08:05 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote:

At 12/16/12 08:02 PM, II2none wrote:

Provide no argument for why it is or research to thwart my statement.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research /gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use/index.html

Big whoop it's not even to a point where there's utter chaos.

At 12/16/12 08:48 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote: Murders in the UK are lower than those in the US, not once was it stated in this thread getting rid of guns would get rid of murder. That's just human nature, guns are an artificial and alarmingly effective means of killing other people. As demonstrated Friday.

True, their is less homicides, but you are neglecting the other part of the equation, and that's the crime comparison before and after the bans take affect. Some parts of America have always been unusually violent, even those where they have strict gun control.

Read enough to know with strict gun control crime rates in the UK are lower, especially firearm related crime.

Yet somehow their homicide rates increased after the 90something ban.

You gave off the aura of a true American conservative, being an idiot.

You mean understanding there has been zero causal link to show guns have anything to do increasing crime rates?

At 12/16/12 09:00 PM, II2none wrote:

At 12/16/12 08:05 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote:

At 12/16/12 08:02 PM, II2none wrote:

Provide no argument for why it is or research to thwart my statement.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research /gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use/index.html

Big whoop it's not even to a point where there's utter chaos.

Is that the point it has to be before Amerifats agree to strict gun control?

At 12/16/12 09:02 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote:

Is that the point it has to be before Amerifats agree to strict gun control?

How original, and yeah I guess so. We'll deal with it just like we deal with the yearly death toll of car crashes. Stop acting like banning guns will bring world peace.