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At 12/15/12 05:18 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote: But in countries where there's gun control there's a lot less gun crimes being committed? Usually spree killers in America buy guns, they're not usually criminals who do it for a living but crazy people that need an outlet and have an easy way to harm other people because American laws make it easy for them.

Why do people consistently bring up the gun crime rate, but quietly ignore the higher levels of violent crime post ban compared to pre ban? Shit, the UK somehow managed to pull off a RISING gun crime rate even though they got rid of guns.

Look up the deadliest mass school killing in the US. Look what was used. Go ahead, I'll wait.

For everybody against the second amendment.

At 12/15/12 05:33 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote: http://articles.cnn.com/2007-04-19/us/gun.laws_1_gun-dealer-
gun-laws-gun-buyers?_s=PM:US
I dont think theres a statistic but it seems to be pretty easy for anyone to get a gun in America. Even introverts who dont have redneck friends to borrow them from dont need to try that hard.

Yes, it's easy to buy a gun. But mass murderers tend to borrow guns from other people.

Duh

And you're ohk with american laws making getting guns easy for anyone?

Yes. I'm an avid gun collector, and I want to be able to buy guns/ gun accessories

Well then stop stating the obvious

"theres way more than knives" was your statement?

"its alot easier to kill with a gun in the hands of crazy ppl than it is with something like a knife."

Duh, stop stating the obvious

So unless someone is a convicted criminal in Murica or shows obvious signs of being a psycho it's pretty easy for them to get a gun?

No, true psychopaths don't show signs of being a psychopath. Making medicare free wont make it any easier to spot a psychopath.

By the way, there's this thing called Obama care. It doesn't make medicare free, but it comes damn near close to it.

Also, how would making medicare free make it easier to spot psychopaths? It wont.

You say that as if American civilians can't be totally crazy... like the civilian that just walked into an elementary school and shot 27 people for no reason.

No shit, there are quite a few crazy americans, but just because a few people do stuff like this, doesn't mean you should ban guns. Please, please stop being an ignorant wad.

Why make such a huge investment in something you have no faith in? Why arm millions of people despite all the risk?

I have an incredibly huge amount of faith in our military. But if they fail, and no one in america has guns, then we're doomed. Would you prefer a handful of people die every year (which is supposed to happen, it's life) or an entire nation be killed?

I'm retarded for not wanting to invade your country? What?

For thinking your retarded ideas on gun control are gonna help anything.

I don't think most American children feel safe so much as going to school now.

As I said, tragedies happen, and nothing is gonna stop them. Getting rid of guns will only cause more damage, and it makes me feel safe that we have so many people willing to defend the right to own a gun.

At 12/15/12 05:42 PM, Xenomit wrote: Yes, it's easy to buy a gun. But mass murderers tend to borrow guns from other people.

Do you have any proof to support that statement?

Yes. I'm an avid gun collector, and I want to be able to buy guns/ gun accessories

Well as a nonAmerican and nongun collecter it scares me that so many people enjoy the hobby of collecting and purchasing guns.

"its alot easier to kill with a gun in the hands of crazy ppl than it is with something like a knife."

My only point in that statement being is the only purpose of owning a gun is to shoot and harm something. Why do all Americans have the right to own a tool created with the sole intent to harm others?

Duh, stop stating the obvious

You first

No, true psychopaths don't show signs of being a psychopath. Making medicare free wont make it any easier to spot a psychopath.

That's not at all what I asked. Unelss someone is a convicted criminal or shows signs of being insane it should be pretty easy to buy a gun? At least easier than finding a job in most of America.

By the way, there's this thing called Obama care. It doesn't make medicare free, but it comes damn near close to it.

Also, how would making medicare free make it easier to spot psychopaths? It wont.

At least those who wish to harm others could seek help.

No shit, there are quite a few crazy americans, but just because a few people do stuff like this, doesn't mean you should ban guns. Please, please stop being an ignorant wad.

But it's not just spree killers, it's gun crime in general. Look at the rates when compared to countries that don't have easy access guns.

I have an incredibly huge amount of faith in our military. But if they fail, and no one in america has guns, then we're doomed. Would you prefer a handful of people die every year (which is supposed to happen, it's life) or an entire nation be killed?

I think you're paranoid, i also dont think the american ground militia was very effective on 9/11.

For thinking your retarded ideas on gun control are gonna help anything.

But gun control lowers the amount of gun crimes a lot. School shootings are almost exclusively an American thing.

As I said, tragedies happen, and nothing is gonna stop them. Getting rid of guns will only cause more damage, and it makes me feel safe that we have so many people willing to defend the right to own a gun.

If I were an American kid I'd be pretty scared.

At 12/15/12 05:51 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote: Do you have any proof to support that statement?

I suck at finding statistics online, I'm hoping someone els will see this and whip some up

Well as a nonAmerican and nongun collecter it scares me that so many people enjoy the hobby of collecting and purchasing guns.

I have never shot any human being, and I have never thought about using my guns to kill

My only point in that statement being is the only purpose of owning a gun is to shoot and harm something.

Not at all. Many, many people just use guns for sports shooting. You know, like shooting those flying disks, or shooting down popup targets. You're still showing an absence of knowledge about guns.

Why do all Americans have the right to own a tool created with the sole intent to harm others?

1. Defense
2. Collection
3. Hunting

You first

You stated the obvious first, so shut up

That's not at all what I asked. Unelss someone is a convicted criminal or shows signs of being insane it should be pretty easy to buy a gun?

You have heard of background CIA checks that you have to go through before you buy a gun, right?

Of course you haven't, you make opinions about things that you know nothing about. That's right, every time you want ot buy a gun, the CIA or FBI does a background check on you. If you've been convicted of crime, or have a past of showing insanity, they deny your purchase.

At least those who wish to harm others could seek help.

They can do that now, most just choose not to.

Making medicare free would actually make it harder, because the government would be paying for our medicare.

But it's not just spree killers, it's gun crime in general. Look at the rates when compared to countries that don't have easy access guns.

Holy fucking god.

When england banned guns, their gun rate raised.

How ignorant can you possible get?

I think you're paranoid, i also dont think the american ground militia was very effective on 9/11.

Holy fucking holy.

9/11 was a surprise event. Out of nowhere, two haji's took over a plane and crashed it into a building. We had no idea it was about to happen, and by the time it did happen, it was too late.

You're officially an ignorant retard.

But gun control lowers the amount of gun crimes a lot. School shootings are almost exclusively an American thing.

Look at England.

They banned guns and gun crime went up.

If I were an American kid I'd be pretty scared.

Ok

At 12/15/12 06:04 PM, Xenomit wrote:

At 12/15/12 05:51 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote: Do you have any proof to support that statement?

I suck at finding statistics online, I'm hoping someone els will see this and whip some up

Well I don't
Number of Murders, United States, 2010: 12,996

Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2010: 8,775

Number of Murders, Britain, 2011*: 638
(Since BritainâEUTMs population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,095 US murders)

Number of Murders by firearms, Britain, 2011*: 58
(equivalent to 290 US murders)

Number of Murders by crossbow in Britain, 2011*: 2 (equivalent to 10 US murders).

The rate of private gun ownership per 100 people
United States 88.82
United Kingdom is 6.72
Canada 23.8
Switzerland 45.7

The annual rate of homicide by any means per 100,000 population
United States 4.96
United Kingdom 1.2
Canada 1.8
Switzerland 0.70

The annual rate of firearm homicide per 100,000 population
United States 2.98
United Kingdom 0.03
Canada 0.50
Switzerland 0.52

Maybe it's just a cultural thing? I don't understand how the risk of guns is even worthy of half of the reward.

At 12/15/12 06:04 PM, Xenomit wrote:

Holy fucking holy.

9/11 was a surprise event. Out of nowhere, two haji's took over a plane and crashed it into a building. We had no idea it was about to happen, and by the time it did happen, it was too late.

You're officially an ignorant retard.

Guns don't prevent attacks on US soil? What you want countries with hostility towards you to give you forewarning?

What's so bad about wanting to collect guns? That doesn't mean you want to kill people, or that you will even use them.

Some people collect toys, and don't play with them.

At 12/15/12 06:03 PM, TwittSoup wrote:
Do you know how it fucking feels to wake up wanting to kill some kids and not having a gun? Why don't you realize the freedom of owning semi-automatic weapons is more important than the (ultimate) freedom that is life?

Semi-automatic weapons? As opposed to what? Muskets?

At 12/15/12 06:17 PM, Darthdenim wrote: What's so bad about wanting to collect guns? That doesn't mean you want to kill people, or that you will even use them.

Some people collect toys, and don't play with them.

Yeah but I or anyone who 'borrows' my Dragon Quest slimes keyring collection can't use them to murder people.

Less shitty parents. A simple solution, impossible to achieve.

At 12/15/12 06:13 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote: Guns don't prevent attacks on US soil? What you want countries with hostility towards you to give you forewarning?

No, that wasn't an assault. That was a terroristic attack on America intended to show that the Islamic terrorists hate America.

If anyone, say Russia, attacked America, we'd know as soon as we saw hundreds of warships and bombers aproaching us from several thousand miles away.

Jesus christ you're ignorant

At 12/15/12 05:07 PM, mothballs wrote: I had a feeling that this story would bring up the whole issue of gun control. Might even be a history-making event regarding the 2nd Amendment.

Nope.

The bill of rights is untouchable, IIRC

At 12/15/12 06:36 PM, Xenomit wrote:

At 12/15/12 06:13 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote: Guns don't prevent attacks on US soil? What you want countries with hostility towards you to give you forewarning?

No, that wasn't an assault. That was a terroristic attack on America intended to show that the Islamic terrorists hate America.

If anyone, say Russia, attacked America, we'd know as soon as we saw hundreds of warships and bombers aproaching us from several thousand miles away.

Jesus christ you're ignorant

The guns available to the average citizen aren't that effective, if at all, towards warships and bombers. This is assuming0--as you put it--the military has failed and it's up to regular joes to fight off an entire army.

At 12/15/12 06:38 PM, LemonCrush wrote:

At 12/15/12 05:07 PM, mothballs wrote: I had a feeling that this story would bring up the whole issue of gun control. Might even be a history-making event regarding the 2nd Amendment.

Nope.

The bill of rights is untouchable, IIRC

There will be quite a few people protesting the 2nd amendment, but I swear to you, no one will even come close to getting rid of it. Which makes me feel safe.

At 12/15/12 06:39 PM, PrincessRanicorn wrote: The guns available to the average citizen aren't that effective, if at all, towards warships and bombers.

You realize warships would just be used to take out our ships, and bombers would just be used to take out primary building targets, right?

Not to mention that the list of guns not allowed to the average citizen is very, very short. With the right background checks, a normal citizen can get pretty much any gun they want. The only things not allowed to the public are special ordinance.

This is assuming--as you put it--the military has failed and it's up to regular joes to fight off an entire army.

You are seriously underestimating the firepower of 80-100 million avid gun users

At 12/15/12 06:45 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: At 12/15/12 06:39 PM, PrincessRanicorn/Xenomit wrote:

The guns available to the average citizen aren't that effective, if at all, towards warships and bombers. This is assuming0--as you put it--the military has failed and it's up to regular joes to fight off an entire army.

Bitch begone. the there are 37 million gun owners in america plus add the citizens that are willing to fight under patriotic reasons, there are over 500 million firearms in america, do the math.

And the primary reason for owning all these guns is the hypothetical unlikely event that some country invades the US? Gun crime rates and people using guns for their intended methods (harming others) are irrelevant, just as long as.. eventually Americans can play Red Dawn?

At 12/15/12 06:46 PM, Xenomit wrote: You are seriously underestimating the firepower of 80-100 million avid gun users

You're seriously overestimating the force of a militia. The original American revolution succeeded because of French help and the fact that the British forces on the North American continent were cut off from supply and reinforcement by an ocean and two+ months of travel. A decent number of continental troops had either served in the French and Indian war or received actual training from officers who did. Meanwhile, the various militias were often notoriously unreliable at being able to stand their ground since many militias were in fact just people handed guns and told to fire. This is probably why the "well regulated" part was added to militia in the second amendment. Citizen armies just like normal armies are pretty terrible without training. You and your NRA buddies are not going to do a damn thing in an armed rebellion against the government, sorry. The only way to successfully implement a revolution against the government involves outside support from another nation, military defection, or some combination of the two. It's a cool fantasy, but a terrible argument.

At 12/15/12 07:01 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Japanese leader Hidiki Tojo once said that the reason Japan never invaded the mainland of the United States was because "there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

And the US never invaded Japan in World War 2 because of the risk of losing troops to the Japanese militia, training even school children to attack in ways that would make Vietcong shutter. There's other ways to win a war than invading the mainland, you guys should know that.

hey don't diss good movies. and no we use them for self-defense, sports shooting (real competitive) hunting, just having a good time or hobbies.

Would it be constitutional to have a federal ban on all Automatic and Semi-automatic rifles and handguns?

You can hunt with a bolt action rifle and still defend with a single action revolver. All while impeding mass shootings or criminals with fire power.

It may take years to fully remove automatic and semi-automatic guns that citizens have now. And it would take even longer to get them out of the hands of criminals. But over the years, it would limit the destructive power, while still respecting and maintaining an armed populace.

The way to disarm the citizens would be a two prong attack. Enforcing strict laws for position semi and automatic guns while buying or exchanging single shot guns for any gun owner willing to relinquish it. Not just confiscating all illegal guns.

The two problems i see with that would be it may get very expensive, and shady criminals may capitalize on it by smuggling guns only to sell them to the government.

At 12/15/12 06:58 PM, Feoric wrote:

At 12/15/12 06:46 PM, Xenomit wrote: You are seriously underestimating the firepower of 80-100 million avid gun users

You're seriously overestimating the force of a militia. The original American revolution succeeded because of French help and the fact that the British forces on the North American continent were cut off from supply and reinforcement by an ocean and two+ months of travel.

And back then, America was a bunch of tiny little colonies, and didn't have very many people at all.

Now we have 300 million people, and tens of millions of those people are very patriotic, and will fight with their life to defend their country. I don't care who you are, unless you're using nukes, it's hard as fucking hell to kill millions of people after millions of people, when every single person is armed with a deadly weapon of some sort, and many of those people having more than one gun. I have 43, and I have several friends who have 20-30 guns, and one friend who's a gun smith, he has 70+ guns, 30 of them being military grade guns designed for killing as many people as possible

You're underestimating.

The only way to successfully implement a revolution against the government involves outside support from another nation, military defection, or some combination of the two. It's a cool fantasy, but a terrible argument.

We're not talking about a revolution, we're talking about one nation invading another, and facing not only the defending nation's military, but the entire militia.

Now, from this point on, I'm only gonna reply to people who know what they're talking about.

At 12/15/12 07:03 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: I do believe the conversation they are having is about foreign invasion on the US...

I think the fact that we're between the Pacific and the Atlantic has more to do with the lack of ground invasions than our right to keep and bear arms does, but call me crazy.

Only in America, there's a new excuse for why everyone should get a gun every minute. Actually heard a guy say if more people had guns that the shooting wouldn't have happened to begin with.

I think there's an issue when you need armed security guards and teachers on the campus of every educational institution in America. It's like trading in the freedom for the rest of us to enter the public sphere without worrying about getting our freedom to live in exchange for your freedom to carry around guns.

Thank God the nation is getting more and more liberal, at least for American standards.

At 12/15/12 06:40 PM, Xenomit wrote:

There will be quite a few people protesting the 2nd amendment, but I swear to you, no one will even come close to getting rid of it. Which makes me feel safe.

Of course they will. People often protest things without having a proper understanding of what they're protesting. Not to mention the bandwagon effect.

At 12/15/12 07:10 PM, P0sitivity wrote:

I think there's an issue when you need armed security guards and teachers on the campus of every educational institution in America. It's like trading in the freedom for the rest of us to enter the public sphere without worrying about getting our freedom to live in exchange for your freedom to carry around guns.

If you don't care enough about your life to take proper measures to protect yourself, that's your own fault. Don't take my guns because you're too scared of them to own one.

At 12/15/12 07:06 PM, Xenomit wrote: it's hard as fucking hell to kill millions of people after millions of people, when every single person is armed with a deadly weapon of some sort, and many of those people having more than one gun.

No. It really isn't. It doesn't matter if everyone you're bombing thousands of feet up in the air have handguns.

I have 43, and I have several friends who have 20-30 guns, and one friend who's a gun smith, he has 70+ guns, 30 of them being military grade guns designed for killing as many people as possible.

This isn't a video game. You can have all the guns you want, but if you're not trained on the same level as an invading force, it doesn't fucking matter how many cool sick guns you have. You're going to die.

Now, from this point on, I'm only gonna reply to people who know what they're talking about.

This is ironic coming from the guy who thinks it's more likely to have tens of millions of people in militias as opposed to them just, oh, I dunno, joining the military?