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Space Bandits! Concept art.

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Patonion
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Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-11 16:56:13 Reply

Hey there NG,

I'm going to be posting all the artwork for my series proposal 'Space Bandits', here. Including sketches, WIPs and finished pieces (which will be posted in the art portal upon completion).

"But hey! what is this, "spacey bandicoots" you're talking about!?"

Well, Space Bandits is a cartoon series proposal I have to do for university. It's about a Ragtag group of bandits who unknowingly kidnap a space ship technician, despite his dismay he travels with them throughout the cosmos in search of a mysterious artefact. I have to write at least 8 episodes, do some budgeting, merchandising, character designs, set designs the fuckin' works.

Anyway, since I have a bunch of artwork to do for it, I figure this would be a nice place to dump it all and get some feedback on the fly, possibly even improve my technique with you guy's input.

What say I get started? Meet the cast.

From the left, I-0, Annie, Gal, Yuro, Callis.

Space Bandits! Concept art.


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Patonion
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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-11 17:16:41 Reply

I finished a painting of Annie yesterday, you can view that here:
http://www.newgrounds.com/art/view/patonion/spacebandits-annie?context=ratings:etm.user:37 22201.scouted:.offset:0Also the Speed Painting video can be seen HERE

I'll be posting more information about Space Bandits when I complete some more art for it, so expect that over the coming weeks, here's the original sketch for the Annie painting.

Space Bandits! Concept art.


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bigjonny13
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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-11 17:17:04 Reply

At 12/11/12 04:56 PM, Patonion wrote:
"But hey! what is this, "spacey bandicoots" you're talking about!?"

Spacey Crash Bandicoot?

hostileburritos
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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-12 02:45:32 Reply

At 12/11/12 04:56 PM, Patonion wrote: Hey there NG,

I'm going to be posting all the artwork for my series proposal 'Space Bandits', here. Including sketches, WIPs and finished pieces (which will be posted in the art portal upon completion).

I like your style! And that sounds like a fun project for your school I wish I could do something like that

Patonion
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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-12 12:33:06 Reply

At 12/12/12 02:45 AM, hostileburritos wrote:
I like your style! And that sounds like a fun project for your school I wish I could do something like that

Thanks! But it's not as fun as it sounds really, I'm not the greatest writer, and there's a lot of written work involved in a series of 8 episodes. character bios, back story, budgeting, potential growth... the deadline for this is the 14th, But I'm going to continue working on the series long after that because I think this could possibly work as an actual REAL cartoon.

Anyway, I'll be doing a painting of Yuro next, so look forward to that :)


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Flowers10
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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-12 12:48:26 Reply

Why are most of them all bandaged up? did they crash or something? or are they sick with some mutant disease?
And why is the robot wearing cloths? or does he have a dick? in that cache i understand you want to keep it for all ages.


Click on the sig!
Or my thread

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Patonion
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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-12 13:25:10 Reply

At 12/12/12 12:48 PM, Flowers10 wrote:
Why are most of them all bandaged up?

Bandit fashion, rips n stuff. I wanted to make a reference about it in one of the scripts actually.

And why is the robot wearing cloths? or does he have a dick? in that cache i understand you want to keep it for all ages.

He's one of the first AI humanoid robots, He feels clothes add a layer of personality to him, if he didn't wear any he'd be just a 'thing'.

And yes I wanna keep it for all ages, but push the boundaries a little, kind of like adventure time and regular show do at the moment.


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Aigis
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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-12 13:39:24 Reply

At 12/11/12 05:17 PM, big-jonny-13 wrote:
At 12/11/12 04:56 PM, Patonion wrote:
"But hey! what is this, "spacey bandicoots" you're talking about!?"
Spacey Crash Bandicoot?

Kevin Spacey Crash Bandicoot?

--

Your female characters kind of look a little just like dudes with breasts. You've got a little point on their eyelashes, I see, to indicate femininity, but it's not really enough. You may want to make a study of how other people cartoonify female features to improve your own.

Also in the first picture, the blonde woman's ankles look pretty broken. Feet can't really bend up at all like that.

Also 'Space Bandits' is about the most generic name I've heard. It might be a good idea to try and think of something more original and eye-catching.

Aigis - Putting the 'ai' back in 'Aigis'.

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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-12 13:52:51 Reply

Pretty good although in the first picture the way the blonde is standing kind of bugs me.

Patonion
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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-12 16:06:04 Reply

:At 12/12/12 01:39 PM, Aigis wrote:

Your female characters kind of look a little just like dudes with breasts. You've got a little point on their eyelashes, I see, to indicate femininity, but it's not really enough. You may want to make a study of how other people cartoonify female features to improve your own.

tight fitting clothes, shirts that expose the stomach, girl shorts... but yeah chill, these are preliminary after all, check the painting for Annie, I know how to draw girls.

Also in the first picture, the blonde woman's ankles look pretty broken. Feet can't really bend up at all like that.

They can if your exaggerating poses, but again, just preliminary work. I'm doing a painting of The blonde girl (Yuro) next.

Also 'Space Bandits' is about the most generic name I've heard. It might be a good idea to try and think of something more original and eye-catching.

Most often it's the simplest of names that work the best, we get that they're bandits, and that they're in space just from the title. maybe once I'm done writing everything properly a new name might come up. But for now, it stays.

Thanks for the notes, I'll work on the femininity of the females definitely.


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Aigis
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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-12 18:23:16 Reply

At 12/12/12 04:06 PM, Patonion wrote: tight fitting clothes, shirts that expose the stomach, girl shorts... but yeah chill, these are preliminary after all, check the painting for Annie

I did. She looks like a skinny middle-aged man with breasts and a swollen cranium.

They can if your exaggerating poses, but again, just preliminary work. I'm doing a painting of The blonde girl (Yuro) next.

You should really know that when you're asking for critique there's absolutely no point in giving an excuse like "it's just preliminary work". What does that change about the critique?

It's not like I'm insulting you because you got something wrong, I'm giving advice on how to fix something. You asked for feedback after all.

You could have the feet bending forward if you maybe had a style that gave everyone noodle limbs, but given that her legs are drawn like real people legs (if a little simplified and skinny) people will expect them to work, to some degree, like real legs. And that includes things not bending in the wrong direction.

Most often it's the simplest of names that work the best

What? What are you basing that on?


Aigis - Putting the 'ai' back in 'Aigis'.

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Breaktroll
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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-12 18:30:47 Reply

I have to agree that annie looks a bit weird. The boobs seem to be just plastered onto a flat chest. And she looks fairly ugly. (not drawn ugly, just that she has an ugly face) Which could be fine if that's what it's supposed to look like, but otherwise it might need some work.


Try not being a bitch for once, huh?

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Patonion
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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-12 20:49:28 Reply

At 12/12/12 06:23 PM, Aigis wrote:
I did. She looks like a skinny middle-aged man with breasts and a swollen cranium.

Uh...Thanks for being honest, kinda rude, but honest.

You should really know that when you're asking for critique there's absolutely no point in giving an excuse like "it's just preliminary work". What does that change about the critique?

Wasn't an excuse, they ARE preliminary. I used the first drawing of Annie as my basis for the painting (for the record, she isn't meant to be pretty, the blonde is supposed to be the pretty one, even if she doesn't look it just yet)

It's not like I'm insulting you because you got something wrong, I'm giving advice on how to fix something. You asked for feedback after all.

I wouldn't exactly say I got anything wrong. I value your attempt at helping me with my artwork, I WILL take everything you've said into consideration, but you don't need to be so blunt, negativity doesn't help anyone.

You could have the feet bending forward if you maybe had a style that gave everyone noodle limbs, but given that her legs are drawn like real people legs (if a little simplified and skinny) people will expect them to work, to some degree, like real legs. And that includes things not bending in the wrong direction.

They're not bent in the wrong direction, that would mean they were backwards. If anything, they're in the right direction, albeit to the extreme, I'll tone it down a degree or two when I redraw her. Thanks for the feedback on that.

Most often it's the simplest of names that work the best
What? What are you basing that on?

Why are you even quoting this? I said if I think of something better down the line I'd change it. Unnecessary nit picking.

Also I think you have this idea in your head that I'm throwing your critique back in your face, I'm not, you gave your opinion, I gave mine in response. You and another guy have noted that you think the blonde is stood weirdly so I will be fixing that. And I also said I'd be taking the femininity into account because you made a reasonable argument for that too. I thanked you for the notes before and I'm thanking you again. Thanks.

Just started reading your webcomic too. I like it a bunch so far.


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Aigis
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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-12 20:59:41 Reply

At 12/12/12 08:49 PM, Patonion wrote: Wasn't an excuse, they ARE preliminary. I used the first drawing of Annie as my basis for the painting (for the record, she isn't meant to be pretty, the blonde is supposed to be the pretty one, even if she doesn't look it just yet)

Yeah but my point is that doesn't change my critique. You asked for feedback and then you said "oh but it's just a preliminary sketch". But given that you asked for feedback, the critique stays exactly the same. In fact when it's a preliminary sketch that's the best time to give pose critique. When you say stuff like that it sounds like you're making excuses, which doesn't help anyone, least of all you.

Why are you even quoting this? I said if I think of something better down the line I'd change it. Unnecessary nit picking.

I was just really curious. You said something that seemed strange to me and I was asking for an explanation

Just started reading your webcomic too. I like it a bunch so far.

Thank you.


Aigis - Putting the 'ai' back in 'Aigis'.

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Jester
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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-12 21:07:50 Reply

I really like the style but I agree with the consensus that your girls are a little wonky. I suppose Annie is fine but Yuro's kinda irking me, I think it's that her eyebrows are too thick.

At 12/12/12 01:52 PM, StarPaladin wrote:
Pretty good although in the first picture the way the blonde is standing kind of bugs me.

Also this. I understand cartoony exaggeration, but her entire pose there is kinda "ugh," i'd consider redrawing her differently.

Everything else is looking good to me though. The robot especially.

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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-12 21:43:44 Reply

as somebody who has alot of experience drawing butch women, your women have almost no femininity to them whatsoever. I dont think that quality is supposed to be intentional for both of them.


Thoughts in chaos...
Illustration thread: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic /1229930
Animation thread: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic /1332069

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Patonion
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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-12 22:25:03 Reply

Will be redrawing Yuro as soon as possible since she seems to be getting the most attention about her posture and lack of feminine charm. She is supposed to be the attractive character after all and like you all say, she doesn't come across that way yet.

Actually happy with the response about Annie though, her character is supposed to be gritty and cruel and I felt making her attractive wouldn't fit. She's also the captain of the crew in case you wanted to know who the leader of these outlaws was.

Please keep the feedback coming, anything about the male characters would be nice.


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bigjonny13
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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-12 22:36:25 Reply

At 12/12/12 10:25 PM, Patonion wrote: Actually happy with the response about Annie though, her character is supposed to be gritty and cruel and I felt making her attractive wouldn't fit. She's also the captain of the crew in case you wanted to know who the leader of these outlaws was.

Yeah, but there's still a difference between having her be butch and having her be a man.
Seriously, in the first image she appeared in, I though she was a male character.
There is still a form that needs to be followed for a woman's figure, regardless of how masculine she comes off as.

Patonion
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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-12 22:45:46 Reply

lots of problems being listed but no solutions being offered, I'm not sure what to do to her without following the conventional "make her boobs bigger".


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bigjonny13
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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-12 22:51:15 Reply

At 12/12/12 10:45 PM, Patonion wrote: lots of problems being listed but no solutions being offered, I'm not sure what to do to her without following the conventional "make her boobs bigger".

Tutorial on drawing women

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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-12 23:05:40 Reply

At 12/12/12 10:45 PM, Patonion wrote: lots of problems being listed but no solutions being offered, I'm not sure what to do to her without following the conventional "make her boobs bigger".

It's not an easy thing to offer a solution to, because getting characters to look like women is all couched up in your style when you do something like this. I will tell you that making her boobs bigger won't solve the issue at all. People can see that the characters have boobs. It's not the problem.

The main thing to focus on in cartoons when you're trying to make a character look feminine, I think, is the eyes. Noses can be pretty important too. If you have a certain style, you can put more emphasis on the lips. If you have a more simple style where faces are less distinguishable, the hair and the costuming becomes the most important (though distinguishing only on costume and hair is a lazy way of character designing, generally). But then depending on how you draw, all this could be entirely wrong!

Considering you're trying to come up with your own style, nobody can really tell you how to do all this stuff. What you have to do is either experiment a shitload until you've found something that you like, or look at how other people do it and try and learn some stuff from them. Or probably a combination of both.

Also the entire body shape is a pretty big thing, but I can't really give you much advice about that other than "look at the differences between male and female bodies, then try replicate that".


Aigis - Putting the 'ai' back in 'Aigis'.

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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-13 01:48:38 Reply

I think it's your line choice at the root of the "gender ambiguity problem". Try straight and pointy lines for the males and soft curves for the females.

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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-13 14:18:04 Reply

At 12/13/12 01:48 AM, maficmelody wrote: I think it's your line choice at the root of the "gender ambiguity problem". Try straight and pointy lines for the males and soft curves for the females.

Good advice, i'll try to keep that in mind.

I have a deadline for the 14th so I'll be doing some redrawing after then. Thanks everyone for the input so far.


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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-15 12:19:10 Reply

Yay? Nay?

Thought it was best to ask for crit whilst Im' in the WIP stage this time.


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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-15 12:21:22 Reply

I pressed Post instead of upload like a bellend. Here's the pic in question.

I know the eyes are a bit fucked up, I'll fix them soon.

Space Bandits! Concept art.


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Patonion
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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-15 13:39:57 Reply

Noticed some problems myself so I updated the sketch quite a bit

- touched up the face a bit, lip positioning, eyes, jawline, cheeks
- fixed some proportional and anatomical problems, namely the positioning of her knees.
- replaced her navel to reflect the direction she is facing
- re-drew the breasts, they look a tad more natural now.

Space Bandits! Concept art.


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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-15 14:11:42 Reply

the reason your men and women look alike is not a character design flaw, but because you basically structure their bodies and their faces the same. Try making mens' faces more blunt, less round or make the womens' faces more angular. And the issue with Annie is that you've put too many lines on her face. Even on a person, that many creases in the face would make them significantly manly/unattractive. Reduce the lines, keep the eyebrows, maybe make the eyes sharper and more intimidating. Right now she doesn't exert authority so much as she exerts anger. Also the proportions in the painting are different from the cast pic. I preferred the proportions in the cast pic. The ones in the painting really downplay her torso so her curves (which were very few to begin with) get really diminished. I've kinda mocked up an Annie redesign:

She's not notably more attractive but she is noticeably female now.

Space Bandits! Concept art.

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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-15 14:25:17 Reply

At 12/15/12 02:11 PM, CypressDahlia wrote:

You have no idea how much that has helped me, now you have shown me a visual of my mistakes in your mock up design (which is awesome btw, looked up your artwork too, they're all great! ) I see where I was going wrong. I'll open up the Annie file later and mess around with her face, I'm also temped to re-paint it entirely from the original cast side on view like you said, it makes a lot of sense.

Thanks! Any ideas on the current WIP?


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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-15 15:37:15 Reply

At 12/15/12 02:25 PM, Patonion wrote:

Thanks! Any ideas on the current WIP?

This one's looking miles better than the original, I can tell you that much for sure. Keep it up.

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Response to Space Bandits! Concept art. 2012-12-15 16:13:20 Reply

Really nice work! The only minor complain i have is that the space bandits theme isnt showing off much the space part. Like when i look at them i wouldnt get a clue their from space. (They could be street thugs for example) I would add a couple of futuristic details, maybe more heavy tech gloves/boots and weapons. Something appropriate for the space environment.

Also i agree to make the faces less wrinkly, like even sugesting lines to the face quickly ads an aging aspect to it. Altough im not any good at drawing faces...Cypress i love your sketch btw!