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GoodFang
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Reference for artwork Dec. 9th, 2012 @ 03:51 AM Reply

I'm kind of confused about reference and what will help me improve and what is considered cheating, or cheap.
If I copy the pose of an existing image, would you consider it cheating?
I have been trying to improve drawing poses, and it seems drawing poses from reference helps me, but I really don't want to take the wrong path and spend my time doing something that will not help me improve.
I don't draw the outlines of poses, i use shapes and use the pose for inspiration to lay down in my paper.

Here's an example in the image, I used Green Lantern's pose as reference to apply it to my own hero, I didn't copy the muscles,costume,face,hair,lighting,and i added plasma powers in his hands,cape, and made lower leg visible.

Feel free to critic my drawing, in anatomy or design.

Reference for artwork


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Lintire
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Response to Reference for artwork Dec. 9th, 2012 @ 04:14 AM Reply

The closer you get to the likeness of the reference in a picture stated to be original, the more uncomfortable people get.

A good rule of thumb: if it looks like you altered your original image to be more accurate using references, then whatever its cool. If it looks like you altered the source material to be more original (like in yours) then you might want to list your sources to dissipate any contention. As in, it's not so cool.

Absinthe
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Response to Reference for artwork Dec. 9th, 2012 @ 04:16 AM Reply

There is nothing wrong as long as it's an original idea you want to recreate. Think of it logically, that pose has probably been done somewhere before anyway.


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Tomsan
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Response to Reference for artwork Dec. 9th, 2012 @ 06:06 AM Reply

At 12/9/12 04:16 AM, Absinthe wrote: There is nothing wrong as long as it's an original idea you want to recreate. Think of it logically, that pose has probably been done somewhere before anyway.

reminds me of that south park - simpsons episode

everything has been done, that pose most definitely. Personally I often heavily rely on reference pics for my outlines. in this case i find your pic very much different then the original. i dont see a problem


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Flowers10
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Response to Reference for artwork Dec. 9th, 2012 @ 11:39 AM Reply

This is a cool topic.

I used alot and still use alot of reference images.
First i used time in a way very alike your technique.
But i found that alot of times it took me ages to find the right image, it wasnt really positioned how i wanted or the lighting wasnt useable, and what not.

What i do now instead is take multiple images of the object i want to draw.
so i get a good understanding how it looks and reacts to its environment.
now you can basically draw it if you have a good understanding of lighting and material.

Ill give you an example, these are the refs i used for my Pirate mount image.
the refs are copyrighted, but because im not copying them but taking information from them it is allowed.

Reference for artwork


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Fifty-50
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Response to Reference for artwork Dec. 9th, 2012 @ 11:54 AM Reply

Nothing is wrong with using references, in fact it's a great practice in learning how things look and work. Although I wouldn't use a drawing as a reference picture, since a drawing is not always perfect in terms of accuracy. You should use actual photos as a references if you want to make it easier for yourself. Try to draw from life my friend.


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monsterparty
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Response to Reference for artwork Dec. 9th, 2012 @ 12:29 PM Reply

At 12/9/12 03:51 AM, GoodFang wrote: I'm kind of confused about reference and what will help me improve and what is considered cheating, or cheap.
If I copy the pose of an existing image, would you consider it cheating?
I have been trying to improve drawing poses, and it seems drawing poses from reference helps me, but I really don't want to take the wrong path and spend my time doing something that will not help me improve.
I don't draw the outlines of poses, i use shapes and use the pose for inspiration to lay down in my paper.

Here's an example in the image, I used Green Lantern's pose as reference to apply it to my own hero, I didn't copy the muscles,costume,face,hair,lighting,and i added plasma powers in his hands,cape, and made lower leg visible.

Feel free to critic my drawing, in anatomy or design.

Well, it's good that you start by breaking down the pose and building up instead of just copying line for line. Would you mind posting up stuff you did without reference?

GoodFang
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Response to Reference for artwork Dec. 9th, 2012 @ 05:36 PM Reply

I'll upload one of my drawings that I used 0% reference, that came from my imagination

Trust me, It is my goal to attend life drawing classes, I have also searched the web for real life photos of people of similar poses I desire. I know a DC comic artist named Alex Ross that photographs live models with costumes.
Posemaniacs helps me sometimes, but only when i practice gesture drawing, the poses in that site are not exactly what I look for. I draw in shapes like using ovals for upper legs, upper arms,big inclined oval for torso,oval for head,squares for hands,rounded cones for lower legs,and fore arms.

most of the times when it comes to drawing from imagination is having trouble starting, I get puzzled when it comes to the shape of the torso which I try to start from because it's the core of the figure and it gives you an idea of where the other limbs will go. I tried using a sphere for a torso but it doesn't work much, the oval is kind of hard in all angles, I've tried using a triangle but then again in a bird's eye view or other angles I need the shape to be 3D.


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LadySeraphina
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Response to Reference for artwork Dec. 10th, 2012 @ 12:14 AM Reply

I stopped using references about a month ago with my sketches and noticed that the quality of my images got a little worse. I'd say that referencing has been a waste of my time but it might be different for you. If you are learning as you are going, and the referencing is actually a tool for you to get to know anatomy better, I'd say your fine. But if you ever feel like you can't do anything without a reference, like how I was feeling the past year, I'd say you should back away from it.

The only thing I use as a reference now is whatever or whoever is around me instead of looking at drawings for reference.

monsterparty
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Response to Reference for artwork Dec. 10th, 2012 @ 12:20 AM Reply

For the torso, instead of just using a big oval, break it up into two boxes. One for the ribcage and one for the abs.

Actually, you should try building a body completely of boxes. It sounds counter intuitive, but in regards to foreshortening, it'll be a lot easier to build a dynamic pose that way. Plus, in lighting, the planes of the body is actually more comparable to boxes than cylinders and ovals.

GoodFang
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Response to Reference for artwork Dec. 15th, 2012 @ 04:08 AM Reply

At 12/10/12 12:20 AM, monsterparty wrote: For the torso, instead of just using a big oval, break it up into two boxes. One for the ribcage and one for the abs.

Actually, you should try building a body completely of boxes. It sounds counter intuitive, but in regards to foreshortening, it'll be a lot easier to build a dynamic pose that way. Plus, in lighting, the planes of the body is actually more comparable to boxes than cylinders and ovals.

If its not oo much o ask for, can you draw a quick sketch of what you mean? I ge what you are trying to say but I'm curious about the shape. And thanks for the tip of use of boxes for figure drawing.

I've been pretty busy lately but tomorrow I will upload no reference drawings and drawings that I have used reference for pose.


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CypressDahlia
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Response to Reference for artwork Dec. 15th, 2012 @ 04:30 AM Reply

I would recommend using photos for reference, and NOT other artist's work, though.

GoodFang
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Response to Reference for artwork Dec. 22nd, 2012 @ 04:46 AM Reply

This is a drawing I did 100% from my mind, I did it in 1 of my classes
I know it has a small head lol, the body armor is odd because I never really observed armor at that time
this drawing was around October or September.

Reference for artwork


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GoodFang
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Response to Reference for artwork Dec. 23rd, 2012 @ 01:33 AM Reply

At 12/15/12 04:30 AM, CypressDahlia wrote: I would recommend using photos for reference, and NOT other artist's work, though.

Yea but I can't find any action poses that doesn't include people looking stupid, or wearing silly outfits.


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Pervy-Dan-Hibiki
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Response to Reference for artwork Dec. 23rd, 2012 @ 11:23 AM Reply

I try to stay away from other drawings for reference, especially for pose references. I'll use photos instead, sometimes it's something I found on the internet, and sometimes it's something I took myself. It's not that I really think it's cheating, but it still sometimes feels like it.


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Response to Reference for artwork Dec. 23rd, 2012 @ 12:16 PM Reply

At 12/9/12 03:51 AM, GoodFang wrote: I'm kind of confused about reference and what will help me improve and what is considered cheating, or cheap.
If I copy the pose of an existing image, would you consider it cheating?
I have been trying to improve drawing poses, and it seems drawing poses from reference helps me, but I really don't want to take the wrong path and spend my time doing something that will not help me improve.
I don't draw the outlines of poses, i use shapes and use the pose for inspiration to lay down in my paper.

Here's an example in the image, I used Green Lantern's pose as reference to apply it to my own hero, I didn't copy the muscles,costume,face,hair,lighting,and i added plasma powers in his hands,cape, and made lower leg visible.

Feel free to critic my drawing, in anatomy or design.

I'm rather new to replying in forums but I'd like to say that the way you would use a pose of an existing image is similar to how an artist would use a chord progression of another song or melody. Pretty much as long as you can make something new and original out of it there shouldn't be anything wrong with it.

From experience I had in the military (I was an admin in the Marine Corps) when I wrote a correspondence or made a certificate I used a template for an older certificate that someone before me made. Then again that's probably something different as there are set guidelines as the way things need to be written.

It's not cheating or being cheap. It's pretty much using a pose you like as a template and it's been done a plenty of times before you. But this is just my opinion.

Also I liked your picture and I'm not a big comic book person (I read Naruto and Soul Eater manga and Sonic comics where/when can I find them) but had you not posted the Green Lantern picture on the side I wouldn't have even known.

lovingthedark
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Response to Reference for artwork Dec. 23rd, 2012 @ 08:45 PM Reply

There is a long history of comic artists, especially superhero comic artists, copying poses from each other, but there's also a long history of snarky comic fans connecting the dots and giggling to themselves.

The best you can do is use photos you've taken yourself for references. That way you're not reliant on anyone else to decide poses and angles, and it's easy to make sure all your lighting is the same and whatever. The biggest reason to use photos instead of other artist's drawings is because (*gasp!*) artists make mistakes, or they make stylistic choices that contribute to their pieces but that may not help yours.

Copying other artist's drawings is a great way to learn, but when you go to make your own work, make it yours.


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Bumbleshroom
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Response to Reference for artwork Jan. 1st, 2013 @ 08:50 PM Reply

At 12/9/12 11:54 AM, Fifty-50 wrote: Nothing is wrong with using references, in fact it's a great practice in learning how things look and work. Although I wouldn't use a drawing as a reference picture, since a drawing is not always perfect in terms of accuracy. You should use actual photos as a references if you want to make it easier for yourself. Try to draw from life my friend.

I'd have to agree! When you use other people's artwork for reference you're going by their enhancement of whatever reference they may have used, so it becomes a little like visual chinese whispers. I have a horribly rough time finding reference for artwork I want to complete, but if you can't find good stock available online, having a camera handy and good people willing to pose is a good idea. My personal favorite is finding a film that can relate to your concept and taking reference from screen-captures. It doesn't just help the progress of your drawing ability, but you can get some really lovely angles that you just couldn't get otherwise!


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Response to Reference for artwork Jan. 2nd, 2013 @ 01:44 AM Reply

I've seen several body reference books in the stores. One type is published by Impact. I really like their materials because it comes with CD's to pull images onto your computer to work with. Maybe you could look into that.