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Wanting to make a dynamic website

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ElTuttle
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Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-11-30 21:23:54 Reply

What languages are the best to learn for building dynamic websites? My code knowledge is limited to Actionscript 3.0, Some CSS and some XHTML. My goal is to make a portfolio website.


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Thegluestickman
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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-11-30 22:00:27 Reply

At 11/30/12 09:23 PM, ElTuttle wrote: What languages are the best to learn for building dynamic websites? My code knowledge is limited to Actionscript 3.0, Some CSS and some XHTML. My goal is to make a portfolio website.

When you say dynamic what do you mean?

Like one that updates without refreshing? That requires Javascript/AJAX

One that has interactive content on it? Either Flash or HTML5.


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dem0lecule
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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-11-30 22:13:39 Reply

Um you mean an interactive site? think a flash only site arms with JS is good enough.

Since it's a portfolio, I guess there is no need for CMS for content updating then. Then get a free hosting place.


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FallingTears
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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-11-30 23:08:17 Reply

I disagree with other people. Using Flash on a website is a terrible idea. Flash is terribly slow, in my opinion. Anyway, if you want to build a dynamic website you need to learn all the current standards as suggested by the W3C for HTML/XHML/HTML5 and CSS/CSS3. Keep in mind that you need to provide as much cross-browser compatibility for your website that you can.

Master JavaScript. Make sure you learn how to implement AJAX. It wouldn't hurt to get well versed in JavaScript framework/libraries like MooTools, jQuery, prototype and scriptaculous. It's my suggestion that you learn JavaScript frameworks after you master JavaScript. You can never really appreciate what's given to you by these frameworks unless you know the nuances of JavaScript that it takes to design such cross browser libraries.


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pirateplatypus
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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-01 08:40:39 Reply

At 11/30/12 11:08 PM, FallingTears wrote: I disagree with other people. Using Flash on a website is a terrible idea. Flash is terribly slow,

I agree completely. If I were looking to hire a coder and found that their site was flash only I'd move on to the next coder. If you can code flash you should be able to pick up Javascript pretty easily.


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Thegluestickman
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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-01 09:44:14 Reply

At 12/1/12 08:40 AM, pirateplatypus wrote: I agree completely. If I were looking to hire a coder and found that their site was flash only I'd move on to the next coder.

Then again, it could be a portfolio on animation or art. I agree Flash is slow, but if you don't saturate your site with it then it's okay to use.


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pirateplatypus
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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-01 10:16:07 Reply

At 12/1/12 09:44 AM, Thegluestickman wrote:
At 12/1/12 08:40 AM, pirateplatypus wrote: I agree completely. If I were looking to hire a coder and found that their site was flash only I'd move on to the next coder.
Then again, it could be a portfolio on animation or art. I agree Flash is slow, but if you don't saturate your site with it then it's okay to use.

I could let it slide if you're selling yourself as an artist and not a coder. But if you're a coder you really should be able to figure out how to do most site features without flash; after all, java script is so much like actionscript that if you know one the other isn't hard to pick up. Of course flash games/apps that are part of your portfolio don't count.


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FallingTears
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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-01 12:35:33 Reply

Quite frankly, I don't know why someone would choose to use Flash (third party software with vulnerabilities) over the HTML5 canvas and HTML5 SVG capabilities. Do you even know what you could do if you added the use of JavaScript to the canvas or to SVG? The possibilities are endless. They're limited by your imagination and programming expertise. (There are JavaScript libraries written to work with the Canvas and SVG to make this process simplified).

The only purposes that I see for flash is in animation or game creation or maybe a simple site navigation bar. I wouldn't be surprised if HTML5 took over for games and animation in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if Flash were discontinued in favor of creating advanced HTML5 libraries that work inside of Dreamweaver for the purpose of animation and game creation.

However, to create an entire website using Flash is not only pointless, but terrible judgment where web development is concerned.


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dem0lecule
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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-01 14:15:05 Reply

Best to ask the OP if he's serious in programming or not. Since he said he only knows AS3 and almost nothing else, I was thinking to let him work on what he already knows.

Flash is indeed slow and bloated. However, I'm afraid HTML5 is more danger. If Flash allows XSS and CSRF, then HTML5 will turn your browser into a zombie in global botnet minions (this already happens with JS). The language itself is pretty much client-side stuff only, like Flash. A friend of mine had a presentation and PoC on HTML5 botnet this year at local security con, it was mind-blowing how easy was it to exploit HTML5 with just simple techniques.

What I like about HTML5 is the WebGL integration, this is just awesome. I think it will overtake Flash with this feature shortly. 3D rendering on Flash is a total nightmare.


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ElTuttle
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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-01 14:19:19 Reply

I really do want to expand my programming language knowledge, I'm willing to learn whatever I need to.


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ElTuttle
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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-01 14:20:57 Reply

I don't want to make a website in flash because to me flash is really only for making games.


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ElTuttle
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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-01 14:29:30 Reply

I want something where I can show off games, videos, etc.


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egg82
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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-01 20:23:09 Reply

At 12/1/12 12:35 PM, FallingTears wrote: Quite frankly, I don't know why someone would choose to use Flash (third party software with vulnerabilities) over the HTML5 canvas and HTML5 SVG capabilities.

have you ever programmed in AS3?


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FallingTears
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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-02 09:21:07 Reply

Dem0lecule, that is some awesome insight. I do want to point out that there are ways to make HTML5 more secure. Also want to point out that nothing is 100% secure.


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pirateplatypus
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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-02 10:32:22 Reply

At 12/2/12 09:21 AM, FallingTears wrote: nothing is 100% secure.

I disagree. I had a laptop that was unplugged, had the battery removed, and locked in a trunk for two years. It didn't have a single security problem during that time.


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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-02 11:29:56 Reply

At 12/2/12 10:32 AM, pirateplatypus wrote:
At 12/2/12 09:21 AM, FallingTears wrote: nothing is 100% secure.
I disagree. I had a laptop that was unplugged, had the battery removed, and locked in a trunk for two years. It didn't have a single security problem during that time.

Lol, hmmm I wonder why.


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phunsukh
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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-03 07:44:30 Reply

you should have to learn PHP or ASP to make a Ultimate Dynamic website............
coz HTML and CSS is not enough to make a dynamic website....................
thanks,

FallingTears
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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-03 08:09:56 Reply

At 12/3/12 07:44 AM, phunsukh wrote: you should have to learn PHP or ASP to make a Ultimate Dynamic website............
coz HTML and CSS is not enough to make a dynamic website....................
thanks,

Scripting languages are important in web development, but without the use HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and AJAX .... your web application wouldn't be very dynamic.


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milchreis
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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-03 13:38:05 Reply

At 12/1/12 02:29 PM, ElTuttle wrote: I want something where I can show off games, videos, etc.

A server side language would be helpful when it comes to managing content.

It's really just many different Javascript/CSS/HTML Players now instead of one Flash Player if you leave that platform.

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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-04 00:11:02 Reply

At 12/1/12 08:23 PM, egg82 wrote:
At 12/1/12 12:35 PM, FallingTears wrote: Quite frankly, I don't know why someone would choose to use Flash (third party software with vulnerabilities) over the HTML5 canvas and HTML5 SVG capabilities.
have you ever programmed in AS3?

yes I said so in my original post.


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Thegluestickman
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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-04 07:27:37 Reply

At 12/4/12 12:11 AM, ElTuttle wrote: yes I said so in my original post.

Protip: That wasn't directed at you.


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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-04 08:17:20 Reply

Apparently I missed a question. Have I ever programmed using AS3? No. I have used AS to get animations running, to stop animations, and to move from frame to frame. That's not really programming.


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egg82
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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-04 10:15:43 Reply

At 12/4/12 08:17 AM, FallingTears wrote: Apparently I missed a question. Have I ever programmed using AS3? No. I have used AS to get animations running, to stop animations, and to move from frame to frame. That's not really programming.

you should try it before you start bagging on it - you'd be surprised at how much power it has.


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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-04 12:22:50 Reply

At 12/4/12 10:15 AM, egg82 wrote:
At 12/4/12 08:17 AM, FallingTears wrote: Apparently I missed a question. Have I ever programmed using AS3? No. I have used AS to get animations running, to stop animations, and to move from frame to frame. That's not really programming.
you should try it before you start bagging on it - you'd be surprised at how much power it has.

egg82, did my comments about Flash offend you? Before you get your britches tied in a wad, let me explain my answer. First, I've been writing both desktop applications and web applications for quite a while, professionally (not just as a hobby). I've used multiple programming languages. I wasn't saying anything negative about AS3 itself.

In fact, nothing I said had anything to do with AS3. My comments were referring to Adobe Flash. The program has become extremely bloated. While a certain amount of memory that a Flash applications use is allotted to memory, it simply isn't enough. Therefore, Flash runs extremely slow in a web browser. Even with today's computing power, milliseconds of time could mean the difference between retaining and losing customers.

Before you attempt to correct someone about statements that they make, please be sure you follow along with the actual context of what's being said and that you thoroughly understand it. There's a reason we refer to the word "assume" the way that we do. Just sayin.


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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-04 12:43:50 Reply

At 12/4/12 10:15 AM, egg82 wrote: you should try it before you start bagging on it - you'd be surprised at how much power it has.

I love AS3. I think I may have grown to love it almost as much as Python, maybe even more. That being said, I !@#$%^ing hate the Flash player. Its performance blows.


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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-04 13:31:35 Reply

At 12/4/12 12:22 PM, FallingTears wrote: Even with today's computing power, milliseconds of time could mean the difference between retaining and losing customers.

That reminds me of this article.
And I have to agree with you: using Flash to make a website is a bad idea, and I completely blame Flash Player for being a bloated and unstable piece of shit.

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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-04 14:10:52 Reply

At 12/4/12 12:22 PM, FallingTears wrote: egg82, did my comments about Flash offend you?

not really, why?

Before you get your britches tied in a wad, let me explain my answer. First, I've been writing both desktop applications and web applications for quite a while, professionally (not just as a hobby). I've used multiple programming languages.

but not AS3, which was my point.

In fact, nothing I said had anything to do with AS3. My comments were referring to Adobe Flash. The program has become extremely bloated. While a certain amount of memory that a Flash applications use is allotted to memory, it simply isn't enough. Therefore, Flash runs extremely slow in a web browser. Even with today's computing power, milliseconds of time could mean the difference between retaining and losing customers.

you're correct, however flash generally does things within a tenth of a microsecond (on an average PC - around 2.0GHz per core), so milliseconds isn't exactly hard to obtain. Optimization is key in any language, and Flash is no exception. Though it is much slower than other, native compiled languages (such as C-based languages), it's still fast enough to retain customers, as you put it.

the only thing I was remotely offended about is when you said you would use it only for animations, games, and maybe a simple navigation bar. This leads me to believe that you think the Flash Player has as much power as QuickBASIC. This could not be farther from the truth, as the Adobe AIR product allows us to control everything from system files to the internet connection. Though there's some things it cannot do (the one basic rule: It cannot control things outside of the running application itself - meaning other applications or the OS, save for I/O) it's still a very powerful application, and has the ability to permanently brick a computer, internal or external (via sockets and another AIR application on the remote end), in a fraction of a second.
(the only thing Java has on AS3 now is the fact that it can open and control more than one window)

basically i'm saying "give AS3 and the Flash Player a fair shot and actually use it before you completely shoot it down" - otherwise you just sound like a narrow-minded arse. No offense meant.


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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-04 16:26:06 Reply

Comparing the power of Flash to QuickBASIC is very scary.


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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-04 16:30:04 Reply

At 12/4/12 04:26 PM, FallingTears wrote: Comparing the power of Flash to QuickBASIC is very scary.

QuickBASIC is a terrible example of a programming language. I want to point out that I have a six core processor, 16GB DDR3, a dual DVI GeForce video card with two monitors, and a 50mbps internet connection at home. I have more than enough power and connection speed to run flash applications. Even with my power, it has been my experience that Flash has set limits on memory usage and processing power. Therefore, when Flash applications go beyond a certain amount of complexity .... it runs extremely slow. Almost like Java, IMO.


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Response to Wanting to make a dynamic website 2012-12-04 16:59:29 Reply

At 12/4/12 04:30 PM, FallingTears wrote: Even with my power, it has been my experience that Flash has set limits on memory usage and processing power. Therefore, when Flash applications go beyond a certain amount of complexity .... it runs extremely slow.

That's not the problem, a lot of effort has gone into optimizing the flash runtime, I've managed to make real time vectorization on a dual core clocked at 2.2 ghz for 1280x800 - 1920x1080 . The problem with flash is that most of the people using it are more interested in instant gratification than making a proper game, so they don't give a shit about typed variables or object caches which are a must in almost anything because the flash garbage collector is this thing and it starts to panic as soon as it sees more than a hundred objects in the queue.

On a slightly unrelated note it's too bad that what makes AS3 so attractive has turned out to be it's downfall, namely the fact that it's very easy to get something moving on screen quickly, which in turn attracted tons of developers that don't understand how the platform should be used and in the end blame the runtime for everything, I really liked the way they handled scene management and the events.