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Orchestral String Runs

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bassfiddlejones
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Orchestral String Runs Nov. 28th, 2012 @ 03:10 AM Reply

Does anyone have any experience with this VST? It seems pretty fantastic from the demos. I'm wondering if it's worth the cash. Even the normal articulations seem to be really high quality.

Orchestral String Runs

SourJovis
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Response to Orchestral String Runs Nov. 28th, 2012 @ 12:18 PM Reply

At 11/28/12 03:10 AM, bassfiddlejones wrote: Does anyone have any experience with this VST? It seems pretty fantastic from the demos. I'm wondering if it's worth the cash. Even the normal articulations seem to be really high quality.

Orchestral String Runs

I don't have any experience with that plug-in. It seems expensive for what you get. I mean you can get a complete DAW for that price. But I've had my eye on it for some time, because I know some good professional musicians use it. It's probably good. Is it worth all that money? BTW the same brand as a plug-in for woodwinds that also appears to be extremely good. It's 700 dollars for just a bunch of woodwinds. Top of the bill, in two meanings of the expression. Makes me wish I had money.


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SoulofT
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Response to Orchestral String Runs Nov. 28th, 2012 @ 12:36 PM Reply

It seems really promising and has a really clear sounds.
But 400$? It just seems really overpriced, for me at least.
You would be better off with East-West, perhaps.
I've never used it though, so don't don't my word for it!!

SoulofT

bassfiddlejones
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Response to Orchestral String Runs Nov. 28th, 2012 @ 01:01 PM Reply

At 11/28/12 12:36 PM, SoulofT wrote: It seems really promising and has a really clear sounds.
But 400$? It just seems really overpriced, for me at least.
You would be better off with East-West, perhaps.
I've never used it though, so don't don't my word for it!!

SoulofT

I already have East/West, but this product fills a totally different niche. Runs are really difficult to emulate in a VST, and this not only does that well, but arguably has a higher or equivalent quality sound when compared to EWQLSO. I wish I had the money to drop on this -_-

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Response to Orchestral String Runs Nov. 28th, 2012 @ 01:02 PM Reply

At 11/28/12 12:18 PM, SourJovis wrote:
I don't have any experience with that plug-in. It seems expensive for what you get. I mean you can get a complete DAW for that price. But I've had my eye on it for some time, because I know some good professional musicians use it. It's probably good. Is it worth all that money? BTW the same brand as a plug-in for woodwinds that also appears to be extremely good. It's 700 dollars for just a bunch of woodwinds. Top of the bill, in two meanings of the expression. Makes me wish I had money.

Those woodwinds sound glorious! It's really difficult to get good sounding woodwinds in a virtual instrument.

MaestroRage
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Response to Orchestral String Runs Nov. 28th, 2012 @ 05:30 PM Reply

OSR is a fairly good library however I personally didn't find it that great. But that's because it doesn't really fit the purpose I wanted it for. For me, I like to write epic music a lot and string runs is a big part of that. However I wanted a good way to write repetitive string runs. You know, the same run again and again and again to give a sense of momentum. The library fails in this regard because there is only one recording for each run (no round robin/variations) so using the same run on repeat sounds synthy and fake.

The library also comes with staccato patches and basic articulations like sustained sections which work but were never the focus of the library and is not something I would use exposed by themselves. They blend great with some libraries so there's that. However, is it worth $400?

mmm, maybe. Personally I did not find it worth the tag though the woodwinds (OMG THE WOODWINDS X_X!!! so good) i'd say is worth it.

However if it's cheaper woodwinds you're looking for the vienna woodwind library is still considered the best legato and sound flexibility wise and you'll get much more bang for your buck there. I don't own it myself but from talking to others who own both the common consensus is this.

So keep that in mind, hope that helps :3

MaestroRage
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Response to Orchestral String Runs Nov. 28th, 2012 @ 05:32 PM Reply

All that said, I wanted to iterate this is just my opinion. When I first bought Cinematic Strings 2 I actually hated it, but now it is my undisputed bread winner in strings and I love it much so maybe if I forced myself to use OSR like I did with CS2 I would change my opinion. Every tool can be dangerous in the right hands.

SourJovis
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Response to Orchestral String Runs Nov. 28th, 2012 @ 08:23 PM Reply

Thanks for your input Maestro. Not that I created this thread, but it's always nice to learn from the meastro. I really like your work, and you're a great inspiration to me.

At 11/28/12 05:32 PM, MaestroRage wrote: Every tool can be dangerous in the right hands.

That's so true. I'm kinda rusted to my own tools which is Reason mainly, and I believe they haven't updated their orchestral library since version 2.0 (they're now at 6.5). Ever since the beginning I felt it was lacking. When I listen to some of the software out there, I really want to branch out. If only I had the money to spare. I have such a long wish list.

Still I've learned a lot of tricks to make the Reason sound library more realistic and better sounding. You can improve a lot by changing the settings of the presets, loading new samples into the samplers, adding the right effects, and emulating the way instruments are played in real life. Now I may not be the best musician out there, and the reason orkester soundbank not the best to use either, but this illustrates:

It's not just what you use, but mainly how you use it.


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dem0lecule
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Response to Orchestral String Runs Nov. 28th, 2012 @ 09:30 PM Reply

At 11/28/12 08:23 PM, SourJovis wrote:
Still I've learned a lot of tricks to make the Reason sound library more realistic and better sounding. You can improve a lot by changing the settings of the presets, loading new samples into the samplers, adding the right effects, and emulating the way instruments are played in real life. Now I may not be the best musician out there, and the reason orkester soundbank not the best to use either, but this illustrates:

It's not just what you use, but mainly how you use it.

Indeed. A lot people out there don't care what tool they use. I have listened to song which simulates 'real' instrument that created from sine waves, and it sounds better than any free soundfont instruments. It totally changes my perspective on choosing-the-right-tool. Like you said, add tons of effect and tweaking the samples can help you produce great quality. Keep filtering!

Problem is time. A lot people don't have time to spend on tweaking samples. And some don't even have the skill to do so, even have enough time. So they save time by buying samples that already mastered/mixed properly or pre arranged. In the end, it's about spending buck to buy times and skill.


What comes around goes around...

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SourJovis
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Response to Orchestral String Runs Nov. 28th, 2012 @ 11:30 PM Reply

At 11/28/12 09:30 PM, dem0lecule wrote:
At 11/28/12 08:23 PM, SourJovis wrote:
Still I've learned a lot of tricks to make the Reason sound library more realistic and better sounding. You can improve a lot by changing the settings of the presets, loading new samples into the samplers, adding the right effects, and emulating the way instruments are played in real life. Now I may not be the best musician out there, and the reason orkester soundbank not the best to use either, but this illustrates:

It's not just what you use, but mainly how you use it.
Indeed. A lot people out there don't care what tool they use. I have listened to song which simulates 'real' instrument that created from sine waves, and it sounds better than any free soundfont instruments. It totally changes my perspective on choosing-the-right-tool. Like you said, add tons of effect and tweaking the samples can help you produce great quality. Keep filtering!

Problem is time. A lot people don't have time to spend on tweaking samples. And some don't even have the skill to do so, even have enough time. So they save time by buying samples that already mastered/mixed properly or pre arranged. In the end, it's about spending buck to buy times and skill.

Sometimes you can re-use the adjustments you've made to samples in earlier songs. Other times, adjustments only work for a specific song. Anyway, creating your own sound is time consuming, but in the end it pays of, because you separate you from the rest. If you use the same samples as others, people will notice.

That's a good song. So it's completely build up from sine waves? I heard (but I may have misunderstood) sine waves are the only naturally occurring wave forms. All sound consists of sine waves. A tone is a root sine wave, plus several higher frequency sine waves that are called the overtones, and are brought about by things resonating with the root wave. That means you can make any sound artificially out of sine waves. Many music sound library companies create samples this way, and they may be even better than samples recorded from real instruments, since you have more control over artificially created samples, and therefore create less inconsistencies.

The song is only 64 kb? I guess breaking up sound into sine waves should be the new standard for compression then. The problem is probably that tools that can play that many sine waves at once will be too costly. Normal audio players only need to play two wave forms. One for right, one for left. These two wave forms are however very complex and contain a lot of data to store.

It's interesting that to digital devices a sine wave is as complex as an artificial wave like a saw or square. While in the real world to create a perfect saw wave, you'd need an endless number of sine waves. You can only approach what a perfect saw should sound like. That's probably why these waves sound so weird.

I'm going off topic here. What has this got to do with string run samples? Maybe I should conclude that you can decide for yourself how much time and money you want to spend on making sound libraries sound good, but the cheapest, most original and most labour intensive way is to create all of your own sounds out of sine waves. Just so you know that's an optionâEU¦


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MaestroRage
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Response to Orchestral String Runs Nov. 29th, 2012 @ 12:01 AM Reply

perhaps, but I don't believe it's possible to recreate some if not most of the organic sounds like in an orchestra. I mean sure it's all technically made of sine waves and there are huge companies and organizations that are in fact trying to emulate real instruments artificially (see pianoteq and sample modeling) but those are not things a normal person with normal resources/time can pull off. I mean these groups have dozens of sound engineers and researchers toiling away to create one instrument at a time. What hope does one average producer have in creating an entire orchestra X_x?

I suppose it comes down to what you're producing. If it's largely organic stuff for now buying sample libraries or finding soundfonts is the only way to do it.

to the OP and returning to the original question. If it's strictly runs you are looking for, consider Native Instrument's Action Strings. You can create some really potent runs with that and as the name suggests it's action oriented.

ProudAardvark
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Response to Orchestral String Runs Nov. 29th, 2012 @ 12:42 AM Reply

I agree with Maestro, but wanted to add that:

I use Symphobia as my bread and butter. It would be my choice for "get the best results with minimal effort for the best value". If you're looking for "one orchestral library to bind them" that's what I'd choose.


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dem0lecule
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Response to Orchestral String Runs Nov. 29th, 2012 @ 12:33 PM Reply

Sorry for dragging the topic off its road... I don't expect people to understand how incredibly impossible to work, such as the demoscene video. I was just showing a best example for SourJovis statement of "It's not just what you use, but mainly how you use it." Also, sorry for the mistake, they use digital waveguides (basically sampled real world instrument's wave, re-generate them in real time, then filter them).

Had done it myself before, using basic waves to create instruments, like string and piano. This involves massive amount of knowledge and skills of mastering to craft the impossible. We bypass time limitation using programming and algorithms to assist. Example such as synth instruments are similar to what we did and how that 64k demo works.

:( a lot of us sceners and hobbyists are still cooking the dream of creating something from almost nothing. We created synth speeches. Maybe in the near future, we can cook up something just as majestic as real instrument does.


What comes around goes around...

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SourJovis
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Response to Orchestral String Runs Nov. 29th, 2012 @ 04:43 PM Reply

If anyone has to apologize for going of topic, it's me. I didn't have to go so much in depth about creating samples through sine waves. So sorry. Anyhow I got a kick out of it.

Though I agree synthetically producing realistic orchestra sounds is impossible for the average musician (and I was more or less joking when I suggested this), it doesn't hurt to know there are people out there who actually do this. Breaking up real sounds into sine waves, analyzing them, and recreating new samples from sine waves.

When you make orchestral music on a computer, you're basically trying to make artificial instruments sound as realistic and emotional as possible. There are many ways to do this. If one of those ways is with synthetically produced sounds, you could explore that more.

Talking about synthetically produced sounds. Doesn't Yamaha also create all of their keyboard samples synthetically? That's what I heard. I'd love to get my hands on some of the mega voices and super articulation voices as a plug-in or to put in a software sampler. Maybe they don't sound as good as I remember. I don't know if they're up to the standards of the sound libraries discussed above.


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bassfiddlejones
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Response to Orchestral String Runs Dec. 3rd, 2012 @ 11:57 PM Reply

At 11/29/12 12:01 AM, MaestroRage wrote:
to the OP and returning to the original question. If it's strictly runs you are looking for, consider Native Instrument's Action Strings. You can create some really potent runs with that and as the name suggests it's action oriented.

I actually came across Action Strings not long ago, and I have to say, I'm really impressed. Also seems to have more opportunities for use than Orchestral String Runs. It very well may be next up on my purchase list. I'm assuming you've got experience with it?

MaestroRage
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Response to Orchestral String Runs Dec. 4th, 2012 @ 03:08 AM Reply

At 12/3/12 11:57 PM, bassfiddlejones wrote:
At 11/29/12 12:01 AM, MaestroRage wrote:
to the OP and returning to the original question. If it's strictly runs you are looking for, consider Native Instrument's Action Strings. You can create some really potent runs with that and as the name suggests it's action oriented.
I actually came across Action Strings not long ago, and I have to say, I'm really impressed. Also seems to have more opportunities for use than Orchestral String Runs. It very well may be next up on my purchase list. I'm assuming you've got experience with it?

yessir. It instantly replaced 90% of my manual programming of runs. In fact the only time I will program in runs now is if I am looking for a VERY specific sound ActionStrings can't provide, or I want to blend them with said Action Strings.

That or if i'm looking to create a very odd rhythm or unique situation. But yeah, 90%, don't regret it at all instant day one buy :3

bassfiddlejones
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Response to Orchestral String Runs Dec. 4th, 2012 @ 11:28 PM Reply

At 12/4/12 03:08 AM, MaestroRage wrote:
yessir. It instantly replaced 90% of my manual programming of runs. In fact the only time I will program in runs now is if I am looking for a VERY specific sound ActionStrings can't provide, or I want to blend them with said Action Strings.

That or if i'm looking to create a very odd rhythm or unique situation. But yeah, 90%, don't regret it at all instant day one buy :3

That is indeed notable... I'm quite tempted to pick it up. Oh, if only I had all the monies. Between the CCC, my PC set-up, and external hardware I find it difficult to justify much more in the budget for such awesome things.

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Response to Orchestral String Runs Dec. 5th, 2012 @ 09:14 AM Reply

At 12/4/12 11:28 PM, bassfiddlejones wrote:
At 12/4/12 03:08 AM, MaestroRage wrote:
yessir. It instantly replaced 90% of my manual programming of runs. In fact the only time I will program in runs now is if I am looking for a VERY specific sound ActionStrings can't provide, or I want to blend them with said Action Strings.

That or if i'm looking to create a very odd rhythm or unique situation. But yeah, 90%, don't regret it at all instant day one buy :3
That is indeed notable... I'm quite tempted to pick it up. Oh, if only I had all the monies. Between the CCC, my PC set-up, and external hardware I find it difficult to justify much more in the budget for such awesome things.

Maybe I can help in that regard too. I know all the fun toys (or most of em) as I like to lurk the internets. I personally feel the CCC is a waste of money. Yes there are a few solid PLAY libraries that are worth it but the large majority isn't and there are better, often cheaper, solutions out there. With their current 50% off deal you'd be better off picking the few ones that were good and simplifying your life by removing those that aren't.

bassfiddlejones
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Response to Orchestral String Runs Dec. 5th, 2012 @ 08:51 PM Reply

At 12/5/12 09:14 AM, MaestroRage wrote:
Maybe I can help in that regard too. I know all the fun toys (or most of em) as I like to lurk the internets. I personally feel the CCC is a waste of money. Yes there are a few solid PLAY libraries that are worth it but the large majority isn't and there are better, often cheaper, solutions out there. With their current 50% off deal you'd be better off picking the few ones that were good and simplifying your life by removing those that aren't.

haha... I've had CCC for quite awhile now. I agree that some of it is a waste, but I do use it a lot. I love the orchestra, SD2 is fanastic, and Pianos is delicious. Ra and Silk have some good stuff in them, but are a bit overrated.

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Response to Orchestral String Runs Dec. 5th, 2012 @ 10:22 PM Reply

At 12/5/12 08:51 PM, bassfiddlejones wrote: haha... I've had CCC for quite awhile now. I agree that some of it is a waste, but I do use it a lot. I love the orchestra, SD2 is fanastic, and Pianos is delicious. Ra and Silk have some good stuff in them, but are a bit overrated.

curses! They got you too eh?

Well for the future may I recommend the Evolve and Damage series by Heavyocity for SD2 type sounds. They are quite exceptional in crunch and timbre.

RA is indeed a pretty big waste nowadays. Though I hear nothing but good things of Silk so i'm a bit surprised to hear you say you didn't like it. Then again it's a niche library for specific purposes (ethnic stuff durrr).

Might I also suggest, and naturally you'll hate me forever for piling more and more libraries on you, Symphobia 1 blends remarkably well with EW Gold.

Anyways we've side tracked off your original question far enough lol. Feel free to hit me up if you would like to discuss anything further.

Best of luck with your new toys!