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Communism, Capitalism, Socialism

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leanlifter1
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Response to Communism, Capitalism, Socialism 2012-11-30 17:07:25 Reply

At 11/30/12 03:56 PM, theburningliberal wrote:
Not really. And see my last post in this thread, it contains some helpful hints for trolls like you. Now go away and let the adults talk.

You do not really understand how debt based monetary econ works. Everything in econ is based on inflation and deflation when in inflation like we are now all that happening is the illusion that things are ok when they are not as the value of the dollar is further being debased as the national and public debt continues to disproportionately rise at to aggressive a rate. During deflation people will starve, peoples careers and jobs will be lost along with their homes as they try to understand why/how the country went to shit because they are ignorant to the fact of how inflation and a debt based fiat currency will rot a country from the inside out.


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theburningliberal
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Response to Communism, Capitalism, Socialism 2012-11-30 22:30:13 Reply

At 11/30/12 05:07 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 11/30/12 03:56 PM, theburningliberal wrote:
Not really. And see my last post in this thread, it contains some helpful hints for trolls like you. Now go away and let the adults talk.
You do not really understand

That's rich, coming from someone who just got schooled on what Marxist communism is. I stopped reading there. Have a good day, don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

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Response to Communism, Capitalism, Socialism 2012-11-30 22:39:35 Reply

At 11/30/12 05:07 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: You do not really understand how debt based monetary econ works.

I seriously wonder about your mental health. So many people, including myself, have gone to great lengths to explain things to you, and you just don't take any of it in. You just continue posting the same exact stuff. It's amazing. You don't even provide sources or links or anything like that, you just honestly expect everyone here to accept the things you say as gospel truth. It's like you absolutely refuse to accept the possibility that you could be wrong about something, that maybe that youtube video you saw or that blog article you read was completely false and you bought into something which isn't real. Why do you even post here? Whatever it is you're trying to do here is not working.

theburningliberal
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Response to Communism, Capitalism, Socialism 2012-11-30 22:46:01 Reply

At 11/30/12 10:39 PM, Feoric wrote:
At 11/30/12 05:07 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: You do not really understand how debt based monetary econ works.
I seriously wonder about your mental health. So many people, including myself, have gone to great lengths to explain things to you, and you just don't take any of it in. You just continue posting the same exact stuff. It's amazing. You don't even provide sources or links or anything like that, you just honestly expect everyone here to accept the things you say as gospel truth. It's like you absolutely refuse to accept the possibility that you could be wrong about something, that maybe that youtube video you saw or that blog article you read was completely false and you bought into something which isn't real. Why do you even post here? Whatever it is you're trying to do here is not working.

+1 Karma

Why does NG not have a like button? Or some kind of similar system, this post deserves major kudos. Maybe one day one of us will educate him, or something... Not really likely, it's hard to teach a troll to do anything else, but one can always hope :)

leanlifter1
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Response to Communism, Capitalism, Socialism 2012-11-30 22:55:42 Reply

At 11/30/12 10:39 PM, Feoric wrote:
At 11/30/12 05:07 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: You do not really understand how debt based monetary econ works.
So many people, including myself, have gone to great lengths to explain things to you, and you just don't take any of it in. You just continue posting the same exact stuff. It's amazing.

You fail to see that attempting to explain how a broken system works is redundant. I suppose you are among the many that uphold the monetary system and are under the delusion that it is infallible. Did you know that every dollar put into circulation has a debt attached to it ? Do you know who pays that synthetic debt ? If you know the answer to these two questions then you understand why and how the whole monetary system is a scam. I don't particularly agree with Ron Paul but one thing he got right was that the Fed must be stopped.


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SmilezRoyale
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Response to Communism, Capitalism, Socialism 2012-11-30 23:00:12 Reply

I am fairly certain Marx said the transition from Capitalism to socialism would be violent. You would have an emiseration of the proletariat, where concentrations of property in the hands of a few would proceed to such an extent that by the time Capitalism ended, private property would not really exist.

But it was Lenin who came up with the idea of a revolutionary vanguard speeding things along, to deal with the fact that 'communist' movements were most popular in places where private property [READ; land ownership tied to use of the property rather than by mere declaration] didn't really exist.

Regrettably I can't provide sources, but the two things above were 1. What was explained to me in high school, mentioned briefly in a western civ class in college, and also what most of the non-mainstream sources I have listened to have said of communism.


On a moving train there are no centrists, only radicals and reactionaries.

Warforger
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Response to Communism, Capitalism, Socialism 2012-11-30 23:28:24 Reply

At 11/30/12 11:00 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: I am fairly certain Marx said the transition from Capitalism to socialism would be violent. You would have an emiseration of the proletariat, where concentrations of property in the hands of a few would proceed to such an extent that by the time Capitalism ended, private property would not really exist.

He really wasn't that clear but he did say violence would be involved. He said there would be a "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" but doesn't go into detail about it nor does he even say it would necessarily be led by a Communist party, just that it will happen.


"If you don't mind smelling like peanut butter for two or three days, peanut butter is darn good shaving cream.
" - Barry Goldwater.

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Feoric
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Response to Communism, Capitalism, Socialism 2012-12-01 00:03:11 Reply

At 11/30/12 11:28 PM, Warforger wrote: He really wasn't that clear but he did say violence would be involved. He said there would be a "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" but doesn't go into detail about it nor does he even say it would necessarily be led by a Communist party, just that it will happen.

Well, as per theory, communism is supposed to be infinitely more democratic than capitalism. A communist would argue that most capitalist nations now have a dictatorship of the wealthy elite. Obviously it's a matter of political opinion, but dictatorship of the proletariat doesn't really mean un-democratic (except for the ruling classes of course).

I don't think Marx specifically said the transition to socialism has to be violent. If the masses are in the streets with pitchforks and the bourgeoisie look around and don't see much else, they'll drop their shit and hope for the best. Of course, they could also fight back with their superior weaponry, plus mobs can be violent, so I think Marx was incorporating the violent nature of humans as part of his calculus.

Jmayer20
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Response to Communism, Capitalism, Socialism 2012-12-01 01:26:45 Reply

To theburningliberal

I must say it is refreshing to listen to some one who does there research.

leanlifter1
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Response to Communism, Capitalism, Socialism 2012-12-01 05:25:48 Reply

At 12/1/12 01:26 AM, Jmayer20 wrote: To theburningliberal

I must say it is refreshing to listen to some one who does there research.

It's to bad you guy's are oblivious to debt based fiat currency otherwise your tone might change. Also don't bother doing to much research into a system akin to a sinking ship.


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SmilezRoyale
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Response to Communism, Capitalism, Socialism 2012-12-01 09:22:02 Reply

At 11/30/12 11:28 PM, Warforger wrote:
At 11/30/12 11:00 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: I am fairly certain Marx said the transition from Capitalism to socialism would be violent. You would have an emiseration of the proletariat, where concentrations of property in the hands of a few would proceed to such an extent that by the time Capitalism ended, private property would not really exist.
He really wasn't that clear but he did say violence would be involved. He said there would be a "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" but doesn't go into detail about it nor does he even say it would necessarily be led by a Communist party, just that it will happen.

No, no mention of a communist party. But communist revolutions have usually been lead by upper-class intellectuals, basically people with the same background as Marx.


On a moving train there are no centrists, only radicals and reactionaries.

theburningliberal
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Response to Communism, Capitalism, Socialism 2012-12-01 10:22:30 Reply

At 12/1/12 05:25 AM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 12/1/12 01:26 AM, Jmayer20 wrote: To theburningliberal

I must say it is refreshing to listen to some one who does there research.
It's to bad you guy's are oblivious

Haha, once again, I stopped reading here. You have no room to call us oblivious when you can't manage an elementary level understanding of economic theory. The rest of that post (which I didn't read) is immaterial, since you are probably repeating the same broken lines of logic and globo-fascist rhetoric that you've been spewing thus far. Go get a real education and then come back.

leanlifter1
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Response to Communism, Capitalism, Socialism 2012-12-01 10:30:03 Reply

At 12/1/12 10:22 AM, theburningliberal wrote:
At 12/1/12 05:25 AM, leanlifter1 wrote:
It's to bad you guy's are oblivious
Haha, once again, I stopped reading here.

oblivious... to debt based fiat currency


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theburningliberal
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Response to Communism, Capitalism, Socialism 2012-12-01 11:00:10 Reply

At 12/1/12 10:30 AM, leanlifter1 wrote:
oblivious... to debt based fiat currency

1) You can't accuse me of ignorance when you yourself are the biggest ignorant clown on these boards.

2) Stop talking about debt based fiat currency being a bad thing. You don't know what you are talking about. See my post at the end of this thread (post #23) http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1324238

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Response to Communism, Capitalism, Socialism 2012-12-03 02:38:46 Reply

Communism is socialism gone too far. The more socialist you are, the less capitalist you are, and vice versa. But simply saying "Country A is socialist" is a bit like saying "$100 is a large amount." Compared to what? $100 can be a ridiculously expensive candy bar, or an incredibly cheap car. Likewise, Socialism can only be defined when it's relative to another country. To Somalia, the US is very socialist, and to places like China, the US is very capitalistic.

leanlifter1
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Response to Communism, Capitalism, Socialism 2012-12-03 07:48:31 Reply

At 12/3/12 02:38 AM, Ranger2 wrote: Communism is socialism gone too far. The more socialist you are, the less capitalist you are, and vice versa. But simply saying "Country A is socialist" is a bit like saying "$100 is a large amount." Compared to what? $100 can be a ridiculously expensive candy bar, or an incredibly cheap car. Likewise, Socialism can only be defined when it's relative to another country. To Somalia, the US is very socialist, and to places like China, the US is very capitalistic.

Capitalism just ends in Monopoly as when economic power is attained it is rarely ever lost. Class separation and perpetuation and the growing wealth divide is not a byproduct. It is inevitable. In the Free-Market, one is actually âEUoefreeâEU to take away the liberty of others through the mere economic pressures generated from the game. You are only as free as the size of your wallet.


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leanlifter1
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Response to Communism, Capitalism, Socialism 2012-12-03 08:48:57 Reply

At 12/1/12 11:00 AM, theburningliberal wrote:
2) Stop talking about debt based fiat currency being a bad thing. You don't know what you are talking about. See my post at the end of this thread (post #23) http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1324238

The main problem with Debt Based Fiat Currency is that is assumes that the nations economy will be able to expand at an ever increasing infinite rate which we are witnessing today is not true as public and national debts remain out of control leaving only the choice of how much of the liabilities will go into default and how many of the tangible assets will be liquidated to pay off the benefactors AKA "The Fed".
History has shown us that all paper fiat monetary systems will collapse when the ideal of interest/Debt is attached to the nations currency. After the monetary system crumbles and they decide enough is enough the only remains will be the last tangible capital assets that the banks have not yet repossessed to pay back their collective benefactor "The Fed".
I hope your Government has a good social welfare policy after it locks you guy's up in the "FEMA" camps under the guise of "National Security" when the monetary system crashes completely and all the sheep that rely on institution for life support go mental because the whole financial grid gets shut down by default and they no longer can buy thy bread in the modern day bread lines AKA WallMart.


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theburningliberal
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Response to Communism, Capitalism, Socialism 2012-12-05 11:18:56 Reply

At 12/3/12 08:48 AM, leanlifter1 wrote:
The main problem with Debt Based Fiat Currency is that is assumes that the nations economy will be able to expand at an ever increasing infinite rate

With the notable exception of 2009, this has historically been the truth. It's interesting to note (for you conservatives out there) that at no point during Bush's administration was GDP growth higher under his piss-from-the-clouds tax policy than it was under Clinton's build-the-middle-class tax policy.

On point, though, if you take a look at historical trends, with exceptions here and there, the US has managed an incredible history of continued economic growth. Historically, from 1947 until 2012, the United States GDP Growth Rate averaged 3.2 Percent reaching an all time high of 17.2 Percent in March of 1950 and a record low of -10.4 Percent in March of 1958. The United States has one of the most diversified and most technologically advanced economies in the world. Finance, insurance, real estate, rental, leasing, health care, social assistance, professional, business and educational services account for more than 40 percent of GDP. Retail and wholesale trade creates another 12 percent of the wealth. The government related services fuel 13 percent of GDP. Utilities, transportation and warehousing and information account for 10 percent of the GDP. Manufacturing, mining, and construction constitute 17 percent of the output. Agriculture accounts for only 1.5 percent of the GDP, yet due to use of advance technologies, the United States is a net exporter of food. This page includes a chart with historical data for the United States GDP Growth Rate: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth

which we are witnessing today is not true

Blind and willful ignorance of the facts does not make your argument true.

as public and national debts remain out of control

What exactly do you mean by "public" debts? In terms of national debt, most economists will argue that debt is a good thing. NPR posted a good explanation of national debt, probably aimed for you, called "National Debt For Beginners." Link. The question remains how much debt is good, but, long story short, even at record high levels of debt in the past we have been able to pay it down over time. There is no reason to think that if we make the right investments to improve our economy that we will not be able to do the same.

leaving only the choice of how much of the liabilities will go into default

This assumes that they will but... considering that current treasury bonds are going at a very low interest rate and we are still paying the interest on those treasuries, it is not likely to happen unless the Tea Party performs a repeat of their 2011 debt ceiling stranglehold. And at that point, it will be the fault of a small minority of American politicians, not President Obama.

and how many of the tangible assets will be liquidated to pay off the benefactors AKA "The Fed".

Again, this relies on faulty assumptions that can't be proven and are unlikely to happen.

History has shown us that all paper fiat monetary systems will collapse when the ideal of interest/Debt is attached to the nations currency.

Only in astronomical levels, as was done with Germany post-WWI when they were forced to pay reparations for the damages they had caused throughout the rest of Europe. Historically there are other reasons these systems have failed, almost never for the same reason. Most had to do with significant, revolutionary political upheavals or the inherent greed of monarchs and emperors. Neither of which we are currently facing here in the US.

After the monetary system crumbles and they decide enough is enough

Once again, faulty assumptions and empty rhetoric.

the only remains will be the last tangible capital assets that the banks have not yet repossessed to pay back their collective benefactor "The Fed".

You really don't understand debt, do you? If your scenario would happen (which is unlikely), the Fed would not be the one getting paid back. They wouldn't even be the ones making the payment. It would be the Treasury having to "sell off assets" to pay off the people / entities who have bought US Treasury bonds and, in so doing, loaned money to the US government.

I hope your Government has a good social welfare policy after it locks you guy's up in the "FEMA" camps

Are you kidding me? Someone needs to remove the anal probe that ET left in your ass and surgically remove the tinfoil hat you are wearing because I swear, boy, you are dumber than a box of rocks that has been put in a diamond-tipped blender and left on puree too long.

under the guise of "National Security" when the monetary system crashes completely and all the sheep that rely on institution for life support go mental because the whole financial grid gets shut down by default and they no longer can buy thy bread in the modern day bread lines AKA WallMart.

Do I really need to repeat the arguments I stated above? Okay, I will.

All of your arguments rely on a major set of faulty assumptions that are extremely unlikely to happen unless you are still trapped in the same kind of bubble that Republicans were trapped in during the 2012 election cycle. It's time to escape your little bubble of anti-reality and join the rest of us who actually have real, concrete ideas about the way things work and why they work. Come join us, we have pretty things like puppies, porn and sunshine. It's not a scary place, I promise...

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Response to Communism, Capitalism, Socialism 2012-12-05 14:05:58 Reply

pure capitalism somalia
pure communism noth korea
pure socialism sweden so hard to choose


if it is a gigantic horrible typo mah bad