China's Success is Proof That the

[Ononymous]

U.S should become Communist. China's economy is growing very fast, and it should overtake America's economy soon.

Clearly, adopting a Communist economy has made it into a great financial powerhouse.

It'd therefore make sense for the U.S.A to adopt Communism too.

[leanlifter1]

At 11/21/12 08:24 PM, Ononymous wrote: U.S should become Communist. China's economy is growing very fast, and it should overtake America's economy soon.

Clearly, adopting a Communist economy has made it into a great financial powerhouse.

It'd therefore make sense for the U.S.A to adopt Communism too.

USA = Republic China = Republic ....

The problem is that people in China are not lazy like in Amurica and that is why there country is better off in the long run. Also add to the fact that China are producers and Amurica are consumers = a recipe for China to get ahead over the last 60 years. What do you guy's think China has been doing with all that income LOL not beef up there Military.

[BumFodder]

Keep in mind most of it is because China has an absurdly high population.

[leanlifter1]

At 11/21/12 08:30 PM, BumFodder wrote: Keep in mind most of it is because China has an absurdly high population.

More people in such a small place like China is a logistical nightmare that would crush most countries and people spirits. Population is not the reason that China is doing so well as they are mechanized to produce which mean less need for human workers. Population would actually work against most countries logistically speaking.

[Dimitrilium]

What's make China so strong is the fact they have so many expendable slaves... I mean underpaid workers.
And no respect for environment, people, and everything.

Communism is a big joke, there's no country more capitalist right now.

[leanlifter1]

At 11/21/12 08:35 PM, Dimitrilium wrote: What's make China so strong is the fact they have so many expendable slaves... I mean underpaid workers.
And no respect for environment, people, and everything.

Communism is a big joke, there's no country more capitalist right now.

LOL and you honestly think America has respect for the worker and the environment ROFLMAO ! The reason China is doing well is because they are smarter than the average bear and they invested money to mechanize there country after WW2 into a production powerhouse to overtake other countries not by way of the gun but by way of the economy/debt.

[SmilezRoyale]

At 11/21/12 08:24 PM, Ononymous wrote: U.S should become Communist. China's economy is growing very fast, and it should overtake America's economy soon.

Clearly, adopting a Communist economy has made it into a great financial powerhouse.

It'd therefore make sense for the U.S.A to adopt Communism too.

Define Communism and demonstrate that China practices it. Since the word has multiple definitions.

China is ruled by a party that refers to itself as "The Communist Party" <--- or at least that's vaguely what it means in the Chinese to English Translation. In my mind, given my own knowledge of the definition of communism [Note that not even the Communist party in the USSR referred to its own practices as "Communism" -- although they referred to themselves as Communists for reasons I won't get in to]

Also China's growth rates are not really sustainable. And the CCP's obsession with 'growth at all costs' is likely going to result in an "economic correction" occurring in that country.

You didn't put much thought in to your post.

[theburningliberal]

At 11/21/12 08:40 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:

At 11/21/12 08:35 PM, Dimitrilium wrote: What's make China so strong is the fact they have so many expendable slaves... I mean underpaid workers.
And no respect for environment, people, and everything.

Communism is a big joke, there's no country more capitalist right now.

If you think China is capitalist, you need help. They just introduced private property rights in 2004 via an Amendment to their constitution... Maybe in a few years they will vote in blowjobs, too.

LOL and you honestly think America has respect for the worker and the environment ROFLMAO ! The reason China is doing well is because they are smarter than the average bear and they invested money to mechanize there country after WW2 into a production powerhouse to overtake other countries not by way of the gun but by way of the economy/debt.

Considering the worker protection laws that are in place here (FMLA, FLSA, OSH, among others) are a good example, and you just don't see those protections in countries like China.

Moreover, this same argument was made in the from the 30's to the 60's by many citing the Soviet government's statistics on economic status.... It was later found, though, that the Soviet government was cooking the books and starving their own citizens by collecting all crops, exporting them to other countries without considering what the citizens would need to live on. At first it didn't make an impact, but over time it became clear that the Soviet government was lying to its citizens and the rest of the world about the true nature of Soviet economic production. Not saying the same thing is happening in China, but it is a good warning - take what the Chinese say with a grain of salt, Communism is not the benevolent system that it would appear to be.

[SmilezRoyale]

At 11/21/12 09:43 PM, theburningliberal wrote:

At 11/21/12 08:40 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:

At 11/21/12 08:35 PM, Dimitrilium wrote: What's make China so strong is the fact they have so many expendable slaves... I mean underpaid workers.
And no respect for environment, people, and everything.

Communism is a big joke, there's no country more capitalist right now.

If you think China is capitalist, you need help. They just introduced private property rights in 2004 via an Amendment to their constitution... Maybe in a few years they will vote in blowjobs, too.

I think you're closer to the spirit of the truth but to address this point specifically. Consider the fact that Legal protections of property rights are less important then the de-facto situation regarding the ability of citizens to make economic decisions as they please

To take as an example, I believe in the UK during the 1800's there was never any specific legal guarantee for free speech. Yet de-facto free speech persisted throughout the period. [Now of course you have things like hate speech prevention etc. etc.]

In the United States you have explicit legal protections of free speech yet implicit understandings that it can be abridged under a number of pretenses.

Now I suspect free speech is more prevalent in the US than the UK but it's hard to argue that it being written down is more important than the actual 'understanding' of the situation.

The rest of your stuff I generally agree with.

Enviromentally speaking China has a pretty nasty record, then again, so did the Soviet Union and so does the US Government [US Citizens not so much] It's one of the problems with a 'growth at all costs' model.

[orangebomb]

At 11/21/12 08:24 PM, Ononymous wrote: U.S should become Communist. China's economy is growing very fast, and it should overtake America's economy soon.

China is about as communist as the Soviet Union was, which for the most part, is in name only. As for China's economy growing as much as it did and still is now, while they're is no denial that they are rapidly closing in on us in terms of overall GDP and production, it has come with a terrible cost to the environment and worker safety. This kind of growth is unsustainable in the long run, even with a population of around 2 billion.

Clearly, adopting a Communist economy has made it into a great financial powerhouse.

Once again, China is communist in name only. Going back to Xiaoping's reforms, which became more of an open economy, this was the foundation for modern China, which in turn allowed it to grow rapidly into where it is today, and the worldwide need for cheap manufacturing of goods helps a lot, and China was more than pleased to take that role.

It'd therefore make sense for the U.S.A to adopt Communism too.

Simply put, no. Communism has a very horrible track record of human rights, and the "growth of at all costs" mentality that many communist countries implemented generally backfired. I really don't know where people get all this from, but you have to peel away from the surface in order to get the full story, and under all that Chinese industrialization lies some dark demons.

[Dimitrilium]

At 11/21/12 09:43 PM, theburningliberal wrote:

If you think China is capitalist, you need help. They just introduced private property rights in 2004 via an Amendment to their constitution... Maybe in a few years they will vote in blowjobs, too.

Ever since China let private enterprise in 1978, capitalism is reforming the economy. Also, you seem to think capitalism = evolution toward freedom or democracy. It's not the case, the so called "communist" system of China let the party capitalist elite rule over the rest of the population.

[leanlifter1]

At 11/21/12 11:46 PM, 24901miles wrote: Capital luxury is wasteful.

Someone needs to devise a system of government which compels all citizens to work efficiently for the good of humanity.

I agree but to the many Fascists that inhabit the USA that notion would be considered Communist.

[leanlifter1]

At 11/21/12 11:48 PM, Dimitrilium wrote:

At 11/21/12 09:43 PM, theburningliberal wrote:

If you think China is capitalist, you need help. They just introduced private property rights in 2004 via an Amendment to their constitution... Maybe in a few years they will vote in blowjobs, too.

Ever since China let private enterprise in 1978, capitalism is reforming the economy. Also, you seem to think capitalism = evolution toward freedom or democracy. It's not the case, the so called "communist" system of China let the party capitalist elite rule over the rest of the population.

China is not "Communist" They are a "Peoples Republic" just the the states. Communism does away with the whole monetary system all together and proclaims equal and common ownership of all work, property, possessions, ideals and natural resources of the people. In theory Communism would enable the people have more of a say than does a Republic where in a Republic you choose someone to have a say on your behalf.

[Jmayer20]

China is only Communist in name. There economic policy is not communist at all. As for there government its really more like an oligarchy. China relies on slave labor. There is no safety equipment in there factories. Workers die all the time. Many factory's have it set up so they pay there workers less then they can survive on, then they have the worker get indebted with them for the rest of the money they need to survive.

By doing so the workers will never be able to pay off there debt and the worker is not allowed to leave until they pay there debt. In effect these people are slaves. They are not allowed to leave, they are forced to work, and there slave master gives them just enough food to survive and keep working.

These people have no future no matter how hard they work. Now you might wounder how these people can stand living when there is not even a hope for a better tomorrow. The answer many don't. Suicide is so high that nets were put up to keep people from jumping off of factory roofs.

This is how China has been growing so fast. Much like the south for the slave cotton plantations. Now if you want to live like this then sure we can change to this system but something tells me you want to do more then just survive like these people, you want to LIVE.

[Camarohusky]

THe only part of China's success that came from Communism was the despotic ability to lie through their teeth about how they're actually doing economically.

The rest of it is a result of copyright infringement, a devalued currency, lack of worker's advocacy groups, a huge amount of government spending, and a large population.

Also, it has often been said that Japan is the most communist capitalist country in existence and China is the most capitalist communist country in existence.

[theburningliberal]

At 11/22/12 12:01 AM, leanlifter1 wrote:

Ever since China let private enterprise in 1978, capitalism is reforming the economy. Also, you seem to think capitalism = evolution toward freedom or democracy. It's not the case, the so called "communist" system of China let the party capitalist elite rule over the rest of the population.

Reforming a communist economy is not the same as introducing free market capitalism. The two are diametrically opposed, and reforming one does not mean that you are automatically in the other. The same is true in the US - we were a perfect example of laissez-faire capitalism until the turn of the 20th century. But even with all the reforms from Upton Sinclair's expose of the meatpacking industry through the New Deal, we are still not a socialist or communist country. Even today we still are not a communist or socialist country.

China is not "Communist" They are a "Peoples Republic" just the the states.

What the government (or state) calls itself is materially irrelevant. The Soviet Union was also a "Republic" but was probably the most prominent example ever of communism in action.

Communism does away with the whole monetary system all together

No. Soviet Currency: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_ruble

and proclaims equal and common ownership of all work, property, possessions, ideals and natural resources of the people. In theory Communism would enable the people have more of a say than does a Republic where in a Republic you choose someone to have a say on your behalf.

You really need to brush up on economics. In a communist system, the means and methods of production are owned by the state, not by the workers. So if anything, a communist state would give less say to the people who are involved (historically verified - USSR). A socialist system is where the means and method of production are owned collectively by the people (as opposed to the state).

Also, while in theory Communism would give the people total free choice, this has never historically been practiced. As its practiced, choice is dictated by the state. Also, in a communist system, there is no choice of religion, nor is there a way for people to make business decisions. Please, educate yourself.

[leanlifter1]

At 11/22/12 02:00 AM, theburningliberal wrote:

No. Soviet Currency: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_ruble

Then clearly it not communist as true communism is not tainted by any monetary system or influence which is also why we have never seen true communism.

[leanlifter1]

At 11/22/12 02:00 AM, theburningliberal wrote:

You really need to brush up on economics. In a communist system, the means and methods of production are owned by the state, not by the workers. So if anything, a communist state would give less say to the people who are involved (historically verified - USSR). A socialist system is where the means and method of production are owned collectively by the people (as opposed to the state).

"Communism - is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, (((moneyless))), and (((stateless))) social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production"

Also, while in theory Communism would give the people total free choice, this has never historically been practiced. As its practiced, choice is dictated by the state.

There is no "State" in Communism so please do some research before you post non accurate info.

[theburningliberal]

Read before you continue making a fool of yourself - this is one of many sites that will actually inform you.

[leanlifter1]

At 11/22/12 02:12 AM, theburningliberal wrote: Read before you continue making a fool of yourself - this is one of many sites that will actually inform you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

[Iron-Hampster]

Ononymous, that's the name of a wize man, a man you can trust.

[Messir]

At 11/21/12 08:24 PM, Ononymous wrote: U.S should become Communist. China's economy is growing very fast, and it should overtake America's economy soon.

Clearly, adopting a Communist economy has made it into a great financial powerhouse.

It'd therefore make sense for the U.S.A to adopt Communism too.

I'm pretty much sure that America has its own Communism.
You want an honest opinion? China is a huge anti-semitic country (the biggest since the Soviet Union). That's why their money goes into the pocket of Chineese people... Won't say anything more)

[BumFodder]

At 11/21/12 08:33 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: More people in such a small place like China is a logistical nightmare that would crush most countries and people spirits. Population is not the reason that China is doing so well as they are mechanized to produce which mean less need for human workers. Population would actually work against most countries logistically speaking.

It did for China for a very long time, but its only in modern times that China has been able to expand massively. I mean it was pretty powerful because the communists took over, im sure it would have ended up similarly with capitalism, just either a lot slower or a lot faster.

[kakalxlax]

At 11/21/12 08:24 PM, Ononymous wrote: U.S should become Communist. China's economy is growing very fast, and it should overtake America's economy soon.

Clearly, adopting a Communist economy has made it into a great financial powerhouse.

It'd therefore make sense for the U.S.A to adopt Communism too.

having cheap labors, and almost no human right laws made of it an economic powerhouse

[leanlifter1]

At 11/22/12 09:33 AM, BumFodder wrote:

It did for China for a very long time, but its only in modern times that China has been able to expand massively. I mean it was pretty powerful because the communists took over, im sure it would have ended up similarly with capitalism, just either a lot slower or a lot faster.

Modernization after the industrial revolution "modern times" are quite obviously different from the Great Wall of China construction era LOL in where slaves by the millions were used. China is capitalist and as well communist.

[leanlifter1]

At 11/22/12 09:53 AM, kakalxlax wrote:

At 11/21/12 08:24 PM, Ononymous wrote: U.S should become Communist. China's economy is growing very fast, and it should overtake America's economy soon.

Clearly, adopting a Communist economy has made it into a great financial powerhouse.

It'd therefore make sense for the U.S.A to adopt Communism too.

having cheap labors, and almost no human right laws made of it an economic powerhouse

China is a powerhouse because the Chinese people save there money and work there asses off producing products that lazy americans consume unlike lazy americans whom consume to many products and spend not only all there personal money but there credit to boot on frivolous shit. Also that's not to mention that China does not waste it's time and resources and instead are occupied on making profit, stockpiling resources and fortifying/regimenting their Military.

[kakalxlax]

At 11/22/12 10:05 AM, leanlifter1 wrote:

China is a powerhouse because the Chinese people save there money and work there asses off producing products.
Also that's not to mention that China does not waste it's time and resources and instead are occupied on making profit

aka, slavery

[leanlifter1]

At 11/22/12 10:46 AM, kakalxlax wrote:

At 11/22/12 10:05 AM, leanlifter1 wrote:

China is a powerhouse because the Chinese people save there money and work there asses off producing products.
Also that's not to mention that China does not waste it's time and resources and instead are occupied on making profit

aka, slavery

Saving aka being economical or frugal is not slavery. Slavery is sitting if front of a computer screen for 9hrs a day every day acting like your job is important for $9 an hr.

[Cootie]

China is the furthest thing from Communist right now. Their blatant abuse of workers rights and shady business deals is proof of that. The communist party there is a sham only designed to give their own people the illusion that their government gives a shit about them.

[Dimitrilium]

Sorry leanlifter1, you seem to answer to me(if I'm wrong, please don't let me know, I don't care about you), but I took the descision to not ever read your stupid post quite some time ago. Sorry.