At 2/2/13 06:27 PM, Korriken wrote:
you don't win the hearts and minds of people who want to impose sharia on the world. that's like trying to convince Jesse Jackson to shut up. it's not going to happen.
I haven't heard of a sizeable group of people who have called for that only a few radical clerics. Not even Al-Qaeda has called for this, that alone should say books about how insane it is.
At 2/2/13 06:27 PM, Korriken wrote:
ALL of them? let's see you back up that statement with some evidence.
Not every religion is like that, but every major religion has its radicals who discriminate against other religions. Even Buddhism and Hinduism (for reference look up Sri Lanka and the Rakhine state of Myanmar).
well if you mean the Ottoman Empire, it's not exactly what I would call a "tolerant" time, given the non muslim communities were often heavily taxed and were forced to give up children to serve as slaves in the ottoman army.
Not exactly. I think slavery is a bit harsh of a term to describe the system of the Mamluks, it's more or less indoctrination, think of say the Allegory of the Cave from Plato's republic. This is because these "slaves" were trusted with governorships (Muhammed Ali was after all an ethnic Albanian born in Macedonia), they also became scientists, engineers etc. many parents willingly gave their children to this system so that they may have a better life. But they weren't chosen because they were Christian, they were more or less chosen because they were outsiders, people who had no previous allegiance to anyone other than the Sultan in the area they were governing. So was it slavery? In strict terms yes, was it Chattel Slavery (the slavery we think of, you know the African slaves) no it wasn't. The Ottomans also gave alot of wiggle room for local religions allowing local churches to operate (since they knew that they wouldn't control the area for long if they didn't) but gave a Muslim bias nonetheless. Now towards the end of their European empire they did become savage, but their European subjects responded with equal savagery against the Turkish settlers. They weren't perfect but they weren't exactly the oppressive monsters you're trying to paint them as.
Golden Age of Islam? definitely. Golden Age of Tolerance? HELL NO! Non muslims were the lowest of the low, cattle to be used for milk (taxes) and livestock production (children) many communities had to give up 20% of more of their male children, who were forced into Islam and were slaves to their muslim masters. Many of them could and did reach rather high ranks in the government, but they were still slaves, in the end. when they died, whatever wealth they accumulated went to the Sultan and their children started over at the bottom of the ladder. Most slaves, however, were used in the military. Of course, it was a clever system. take children from a young age, make them your obedient servants, and train them for whatever task you want them to handle, be it scholarly, or military.
I don't think the Golden Age of Islam extended to the Ottoman Empire, so I'm not sure how true this was.
They were suppressed in many of the same ways they are today. want to rise up in the world? hell no, you're not a muslim! They were allowed to exist in their own part of town, do as they do, but were not free to, say, settle in a muslim part of town.
This isn't true for all Muslims. Lebanon used to have various religious groups living amongst each other (the conflict that ended up going into Civil War was because the government was based on an ethnic proportion that became outdated).
last few Decades? like I said before, don't take everything you're told to believe at face value. Islamic Extremism has been around WELL before world war 2.
It's technically always existed to an extent, but the modern form of Islamic Extremism didn't emerge until Nasser especially with the writings of Qutb who inspired most of the philosophical basis for modern Islamic extremism. On top of this Islamic Extremists built up their support by opposing the Socialist Dictators (Nasser, Hussein, Assad etc.) and their oppression.
Islam usually puts up with non muslims who are subjugated and are little more than slaves. Islam does NOT tolerate any non muslim who claims to be an equal. Muslims put up with Christians and Jews because they were subjugated and subjugated people have their uses, like going jobs not suitable for their muslim masters.
I'd call bullshit on that. Muslims are like any other group, they don't follow such a strict interpretation universally. If that were true then India would not have elected a Muslim President.
Perhaps, but Jihadists, which are the problem, want you and me dead or enslaved. they don't care if you apologize or try to make amends. the only amends they want is for us to bow to them and accept their rule.
Again the Jihadists don't want a global empire, if you for example read Bin Laden's messages to the West you can see how their goals are skewed into a overarching scheme. All Bin Laden called for was a withdrawal of Western forces in the Middle East and the creation of an Islamic state in the Middle East, he didn't call for a worldwide Islamic empire.
it won't happen because Islam says that you can't accept non muslims as equals. they don't want us as their equals, they want us kneeling before them.
So does Christianity and Judaism. That doesn't mean Christians and Jews don't accept other people as equals.
Funny, I haven't heard of Palestinians being indiscriminately slaughtered in the streets of Israel. Do show me a link of this heinous carnage.
During the 1948 war that was actually more or less true, there were stories of British troops filling up Bus's with Arabs and then detonating those bus's. But Israel back then is alot different than the current Israel, Israel was created out of Terrorism and genocide true in 1948 and during the Ancient Kingdom.
Have you ever wondered what they hope to achieve by using rocket attacks? Think about it. it doesn't kill very many people and it eventually gets a targeted response from Israel. the rocket attacks are a recruitment tool. they launch rockets in, then play victim when Israel strikes back. that way it riles up the ignorant masses into joining jihadist organizations. If Israel attacks, it's a recruitment tool showing "israelis massacring innocents!" if they don't strike back "Israel is weak, it's time for conquest in the name of Allah!" and it a recruiting tool
Yah they haven't shown any sign of even trying to justify it. They openly say all they want to do is get rid of the Jews and people are surprised Israel cares so much about it.