At 2/2/13 09:28 AM, svenisgod wrote:
True. That would happen. but the way to win over hearts and minds is not by bombing the fuck out of civilians with drones (did you hear about the last round of drone strikes in pakistan? yeah. i think it was 63 civilians dead? yeah i wonder why people go to the cause of jihad)
you don't win the hearts and minds of people who want to impose sharia on the world. that's like trying to convince Jesse Jackson to shut up. it's not going to happen.
Oh dont get me wrong i know that radical elements have existed forever. just like they do in christian sects. or hindu sects or the state of israel.
You gotta stop taking everything you're told at face value. Does Israel do some questionable things? of course. they're no worse than any other nation, though. If anything Israel is very restrained, given they've put up with rocket attacks on an almost daily basis for years and doesn't forcefully put a permanent stop to the attacks. How hard do you think it would be for Israel to turn 10 miles of Palestine into a barren wasteland, devoid of any large buildings? Given the abilities of their military, it would not be that hard to level a few cities entirely. between bombing runs, bulldozers and mortars, turning a city into a wasteland wouldn't be too hard.
Dont tell me that the bible doesn't tell people that non-believers are pieces of shit just like the koran does or the... fuck whats it called the kabba or something? the jewish text? the jewish text is riddled with it.
You don't even know what the Torah is? jeez, how little DO you know? At least study up on what you're talking about before you go talking.
Also, you shouldn't comment on what you don't know about. Given you've never read the Torah, and I doubt the Bible and Koran, and yet you know what it says. Was there war in the Torah/Bible? yes. Was there a lot of killing? of course. Was there a lot of things we'd consider questionable if not outright sickening? naturally. however, you have to realize that the holy books served a lot of different purposes. It's more than just "what god told people to write" it was a book on laws, customs, songs, poetry, wisdom and loaded with metaphors and legends (many of which are rather unlikely). Funny thing is, there are a LOT of things in the Torah, things the Jews knew that people didn't understand or know until much, much later. for instance, not eating fish without find and scales. most of them are scavengers and tend to eat decomposing flesh and carry diseases. Also, it's now widely known that eating things like pork can be horrible for your health and end up with a number of parasites and diseases if you eat under cooked pork.
Every religion does this shit. every religion says non-believers suck. This does not mean that moderates do not exist or are not the majority.
ALL of them? let's see you back up that statement with some evidence.
There have been hugely tolerant leaders as you have said. the islamic world flourished for hundreds of years under tolerant leaders and it was europe that was the backward shithole.
well if you mean the Ottoman Empire, it's not exactly what I would call a "tolerant" time, given the non muslim communities were often heavily taxed and were forced to give up children to serve as slaves in the ottoman army. Golden Age of Islam? definitely. Golden Age of Tolerance? HELL NO! Non muslims were the lowest of the low, cattle to be used for milk (taxes) and livestock production (children) many communities had to give up 20% of more of their male children, who were forced into Islam and were slaves to their muslim masters. Many of them could and did reach rather high ranks in the government, but they were still slaves, in the end. when they died, whatever wealth they accumulated went to the Sultan and their children started over at the bottom of the ladder. Most slaves, however, were used in the military. Of course, it was a clever system. take children from a young age, make them your obedient servants, and train them for whatever task you want them to handle, be it scholarly, or military.
They were suppressed in many of the same ways they are today. want to rise up in the world? hell no, you're not a muslim! They were allowed to exist in their own part of town, do as they do, but were not free to, say, settle in a muslim part of town.
there will always be radical elements but over the last few decades america has given rise to the islamic extremism that we see.
last few Decades? like I said before, don't take everything you're told to believe at face value. Islamic Extremism has been around WELL before world war 2. Islam usually puts up with non muslims who are subjugated and are little more than slaves. Islam does NOT tolerate any non muslim who claims to be an equal. Muslims put up with Christians and Jews because they were subjugated and subjugated people have their uses, like going jobs not suitable for their muslim masters.
You paint Salafi's as if they are the majority. This is not a black and white thing. there are plenty of tolerant forward thinking muslims. If you help them realise that America wants to atone for its checkered past then you stem the flow of new recruits.
Perhaps, but Jihadists, which are the problem, want you and me dead or enslaved. they don't care if you apologize or try to make amends. the only amends they want is for us to bow to them and accept their rule.
mmm. it is a wonderful fantasy. i wish it could be true but because americas pride will be hurt if they do they never will
ah well a man can dream.
it won't happen because Islam says that you can't accept non muslims as equals. they don't want us as their equals, they want us kneeling before them.
Israel plopped itself down in the middle east because western nations said it could. it took land from those already there. the initial anger that palestine had over that could have subsided if Israel treated the native populace with respect and equality.
Israel never did that. it started its apartheid regime immediately. It subjugated the populace and took their land and keep taking their land. Palestinians have no rights. They are killed with impunity
Funny, I haven't heard of Palestinians being indiscriminately slaughtered in the streets of Israel. Do show me a link of this heinous carnage.
it goes to war with gaza every election cycle.
you mean the SAME Gaza strip that's been launching rockets at Israel?
Israel shows palestinians no mercy and you expect that the palestinians shouldn't fight back?
you mean the lack of mercy they show by not rolling in tanks and bulldozers to create a large enough buffer zone of rubble to put Israel safely out of reach of rockets?
Where do you get these stories of Palestinians fighting from hospitals? american media? israeli media?
Where did you get YOUR information? al Jazeera? Jihad.com?
I would want to live in my own house.
Ok genocide was over-zealous.
over zealous? no. it was ignorant and blind. it's what you've been fed. it's what you've been led to believe. Now that you've put it out there and have seen just how bad the argument was, you try to backpedal on it.
Have you ever wondered what they hope to achieve by using rocket attacks? Think about it. it doesn't kill very many people and it eventually gets a targeted response from Israel. the rocket attacks are a recruitment tool. they launch rockets in, then play victim when Israel strikes back. that way it riles up the ignorant masses into joining jihadist organizations. If Israel attacks, it's a recruitment tool showing "israelis massacring innocents!" if they don't strike back "Israel is weak, it's time for conquest in the name of Allah!" and it a recruiting tool
now, before writing some teleprompted response you got from some website, think for a moment on this question, "What good are the rocket attacks?" the answer is obvious. they don't do much. it's not fighting back as it's horribly ineffective. firing rockets into israel won't deter the israeli military from acting. so, why?