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Four more years of taxing business

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Feoric
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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 20:09:21 Reply

At 11/7/12 07:52 PM, Mfan wrote:
At 11/7/12 07:39 PM, Feoric wrote:
I know, dude. Our marginal tax rates are through the roof. Obama is going to destroy this country this never before seen tax rates.
corporate tax rates , not over-all taxation

Right, well. Taxation of corporations, as the abstract legal entities that they are, is, in practice, rarely (if ever) the correct thing to do, because unlike rich people, a corporation or company is usually going to reinvest all of its income, thus creating new employment either directly or indirectly. Of course, that's only in theory. In the real world, you'd be appalled at how much cash these Fortune 500 companies are just sitting on. It's literally incomprehensible. The constant trick question about the corporate tax rate is that somehow what major corporations pay never really looks anything like our stated corporate tax rate. In the real world, smaller folks who incorporate will have to pay a bunch while really really rich people can get straight subsidized.

But none of this should really matter to you because Obama wants to decrease the corporate tax rate to 28%. He endorsed cutting the rates by 10% during the debates. And you know what? I'm actually okay with that, as long as loopholes are closed which brings in more revenue.

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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 20:13:32 Reply

At 11/7/12 08:05 PM, poxpower wrote: Republican logic: Instead of giving this dollar to the needy, let's give it to this rich guy and the rich guy will decide how much of this dollar to give to the needy.

Democrat logic: "I'm entitled to everything that the 1% has , and i'm going to stand right here, on this corner with my guy fawkes mask on and my little cardboard sign , shouting things at big buildings hoping that what i think society owes me will just magically appear , and those rich guys will go to jail for being richer than me "


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Feoric
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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 20:16:55 Reply

At 11/7/12 08:13 PM, Mfan wrote:
At 11/7/12 08:05 PM, poxpower wrote: Republican logic: Instead of giving this dollar to the needy, let's give it to this rich guy and the rich guy will decide how much of this dollar to give to the needy.
Democrat logic: "I'm entitled to everything that the 1% has , and i'm going to stand right here, on this corner with my guy fawkes mask on and my little cardboard sign , shouting things at big buildings hoping that what i think society owes me will just magically appear , and those rich guys will go to jail for being richer than me "

Right, I'm sure those protesters wanted yachts and apartments overlooking Central Park, and not like, oh, I dunno, affordable healthcare or detesting the bush tax cuts or calling for financial regulation or calling for the prosecution who brought about the global financial crisis. It was all about poor people wanting beluga caviar.

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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 20:26:27 Reply

holy shit taxing must be a crime... surely we can print more to pay it of.... right?


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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 20:27:03 Reply

At 11/7/12 02:47 PM, jimbobmuffincake wrote: Nice isn't it? Why do we have high unemployment in the first place? Obama taxing business. Job crisis is going to get a lot worse. Jobs don't come out of more heavily taxed business. What the fuck, there will be nothing left when the end of Obama's four years is over

Ok, enough of the completely false and misleading Republican talking points. Here's the truth: higher taxes do NOT correspond to businesses having less money. Oh wait...how could that be? It's not economix 101, it's the 102 class. Read on.

Dudes (and gals) here's a point to consider that NO ONE has touched on which may completely change your perspective.

Businesses are a tax SHELTER. When taxes are RAISED on business, the owners have to look for tax SHELTERS, which means that they are more likely to reinvest in the business. Higher taxes leads to HIGHER employment, and any businessman who isn't getting paid by the GOP will tell you the same thing.

If you LOWER taxes on businesses, you definitely give people more money. However, that money will be taken out of the business and turned into personal income of the owners. They will then spend it on luxuries, yachts, trips, etc., not putting it back in business. Because why would they?

The stock market didn't double under Obama for no reason. Consider true business principles and tax law instead of talking points from paid pundits and you'd do a lot better.


no, really...DON'T CLICK THE PIC

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Mfan
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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 20:29:34 Reply

At 11/7/12 08:16 PM, Feoric wrote:
Right, I'm sure those protesters wanted yachts and apartments overlooking Central Park, and not like, oh, I dunno, affordable healthcare or detesting the bush tax cuts or calling for financial regulation or calling for the prosecution who brought about the global financial crisis. It was all about poor people wanting beluga caviar.

define "affordable healthcare", because the middle class working american doesn't appreciate having to pay a tax to flip another person's medical care bill, just because that person never made anything of themselves in life, or even tried

bush's tax cuts are what slowed our nations debt , but we were in the middle of a war at the time so , tax cuts did little to slow our debt

financial regulation would mean leashing our capitalist market , which is the best and biggest in the world of it's kind , choking our market to death is the last thing we need

and no single person was directly responsible for the market's crash, how can you prosecute when you have no proof , and what court would hear the case ?


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Osyris
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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 20:33:23 Reply

just because that person never made anything of themselves in life, or even tried

oh so just because there poor, they're lazy fuckers

Four more years of taxing business


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Mfan
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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 20:34:03 Reply

At 11/7/12 08:27 PM, SenatorJohnDean wrote:
Ok, enough of the completely false and misleading Republican talking points.

a new record , a thread on politics made it to the third page before the conspiracy theories started


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Mfan
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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 20:36:10 Reply

At 11/7/12 08:33 PM, Osyris wrote:
oh so just because there poor, they're lazy fuckers

highest unemployment rate is among the poor , and so is the highest welfare and food stamp rate


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Feoric
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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 20:37:14 Reply

At 11/7/12 08:29 PM, Mfan wrote: define "affordable healthcare", because the middle class working american doesn't appreciate having to pay a tax to flip another person's medical care bill, just because that person never made anything of themselves in life, or even tried

Sure. I'm awfully sure the middle class would love to not have to worry about going bankrupt due to medical costs if it meant their taxes would go up a little bit. but hey! What do I know? Maybe the middle class actually loves skyrocketing medical costs due to privatization.

bush's tax cuts are what slowed our nations debt
but we were in the middle of a war at the time
so , tax cuts did little to slow our debt

I'll just leave this there for you to look at for a while, and then maybe you can tell me what's wrong here.

financial regulation would mean leashing our capitalist market , which is the best and biggest in the world of it's kind , choking our market to death is the last thing we need

Oh my god.

and no single person was directly responsible for the market's crash, how can you prosecute when you have no proof , and what court would hear the case ?

Hi. Hello.

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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 20:38:03 Reply

At 11/7/12 08:29 PM, Mfan wrote: define "affordable healthcare", because the middle class working american doesn't appreciate having to pay a tax to flip another person's medical care bill, just because that person never made anything of themselves in life, or even tried

If you think the 1% is where they are because they "made something of themselves" and not because of preexisting connections, family wealth, or being at the right place at the right time, you're flat out deluded.

The regular middle class worker already pays a good amount of taxes, in the form of property taxes, payroll taxes, medicare taxes, FICA, and sales taxes. If you think they don't pay anything, again, you're deluded.

bush's tax cuts are what slowed our nations debt , but we were in the middle of a war at the time so , tax cuts did little to slow our debt

Hold the phone. You're trying to say a MASSIVE reduction of revenue slowed the increase of debt? If what crazy math world does that make sense?

financial regulation would mean leashing our capitalist market , which is the best and biggest in the world of it's kind , choking our market to death is the last thing we need

The market did a good job of going a bit too far with its auto-erotic asphyxia in the past decade. Not massive regulations needed there.

and no single person was directly responsible for the market's crash, how can you prosecute when you have no proof , and what court would hear the case ?

Then why is the Right blaming Obama for the current recession?

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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 20:40:38 Reply

At 11/7/12 08:38 PM, Camarohusky wrote: Then why is the Right blaming Obama for the current recession?

Because he's not a Republican.

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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 20:43:10 Reply

At 11/7/12 03:23 PM, JMHX wrote:
At 11/7/12 03:21 PM, jimbobmuffincake wrote: Camarohusky:

How would you know that considering Obama isn't nearly into his next four years yet? Don't assume
Yes Jimbob, assuming is bad.

He's not assuming, he's telling the truth.

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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 20:49:54 Reply

At 11/7/12 08:29 PM, Mfan wrote: just because that person never made anything of themselves in life, or even tried

It's impossible for everyone in society to be successful with effort alone. How could you possibly believe otherwise? How can the right spout the "everybody can be wealthy in America if they try" bullshit and at the same time claim to have the better understanding of economics? Health care can be extremely expensive. It's also important to note that you can't afford health care, you're not the only person fucked. All of you dependents are fucked. The fact is that there are many people out there that are completely helpless, that haven't yet even had an opportunity to make something of themselves. Poverty may be a choice sometimes but not for the vast majority.

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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 20:50:27 Reply

lets not get off of subject, why would obama swear up and down to rise taxes on corporations (and the wealthy) , knowing it's what the mass majority of his followers would want to hear, only to lower corporate tax rates in order to appease that very same demographic ?

from what my understanding is, the dem supporters here are in favor of lowering corp tax rates..and raising them too ?


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Feoric
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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 20:54:09 Reply

At 11/7/12 06:40 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: The unwitting ironic nature of your statement is a bit humiliating and humbling to me.

It should be because you're already paying for someone else's healthcare. In fact, you're paying more than anyone else in the world. The United States pays the highest health care taxes in the world, even compared to countries with full UHC. be honest, it's not about you not wanting to pay more taxes. You'd pay more taxes if it were to pay for something you supported. You're just a greedy asshole who doesn't give a shit about anyone but yourself.

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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 20:57:36 Reply

At 11/7/12 06:37 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
So what about disability payments I guess people with legit disabilities are not worth the basics such as food, clothing, shelter, love, Internet and a pat on the back for not being a POS on society ?

FMLA and disability is a completely different issue, as it is something out of their control.

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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 20:59:40 Reply

At 11/7/12 08:40 PM, Feoric wrote:
Because he's not a Republican.

It has more to do with him continuing the same policies that got us into the recession.

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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 21:00:19 Reply

At 11/7/12 08:57 PM, LemonCrush wrote: FMLA and disability is a completely different issue, as it is something out of their control.

Neither are illnesses or accidents.

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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 21:01:14 Reply

At 11/7/12 08:33 PM, Osyris wrote:
just because that person never made anything of themselves in life, or even tried
oh so just because there poor, they're lazy fuckers

Actually, the poor are poor because the government is interfering and preventive them from finding gainful employment by raising taxes on employers.

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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 21:02:54 Reply

At 11/7/12 09:00 PM, Feoric wrote: Neither are illnesses or accidents.

Exactly. Which is why you get YOUR OWN DAMN INSURANCE.

Again, back to leftist greed. "Sorry everyone else, MY welfare is more important than yours".

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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 21:04:19 Reply

At 11/7/12 09:01 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
Actually, the poor are poor because the government is interfering and preventive them from finding gainful employment by raising taxes on employers.

exactly , and more of our jobs are shipped over sea's to fairer nations with lower tax for corporations


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Feoric
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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 21:09:02 Reply

At 11/7/12 09:02 PM, LemonCrush wrote: Exactly. Which is why you get YOUR OWN DAMN INSURANCE.

You lazy fucking liberals unable to afford those rising insurance premiums! Get a third job and remortgage your house you lazy bum!

Again, back to leftist greed. "Sorry everyone else, MY welfare is more important than yours".

Why won't someone think of the struggling millionaires!!!

At 11/7/12 09:04 PM, Mfan wrote: exactly , and more of our jobs are shipped over sea's to fairer nations with lower tax for corporations

lmao. Ah, yes. The fairness of China with it's sweatshops and highly polluted rivers and air. Ahhh.

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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 21:11:00 Reply

At 11/7/12 08:59 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
It has more to do with him continuing the same policies that got us into the recession.

The US has been in a recession for years and years it's called Inflation and that's all they can do is inflate the economy to the point of making the whole nation a joke that has no hope in hell of ever getting out of the red. Plus add to the fact that over 70% of Jobs in the US are in the service sector because all the actual production jobs have been farmed out to other countries leaves no hope for a prosperous future based on production of tangible material goods for the US. In short USA is a Country of consumers not producers like China where in lye's Americas fundamental flaw that will put them in check mate at some point after the Inflation stops and the masses realize how stupid this dog and pony show is.


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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 21:20:16 Reply

At 11/7/12 08:54 PM, Feoric wrote:
At 11/7/12 06:40 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: The unwitting ironic nature of your statement is a bit humiliating and humbling to me.
It should be because you're already paying for someone else's healthcare.

For some reason I quoted you instead of lemoncrush, so this isn't directed at you.

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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 21:21:08 Reply

At 11/7/12 09:04 PM, Mfan wrote:
At 11/7/12 09:01 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
Actually, the poor are poor because the government is interfering and preventive them from finding gainful employment by raising taxes on employers.
exactly , and more of our jobs are shipped over sea's to fairer nations with lower tax for corporations

Reeeeed meat, you think the government taxes are forcing jobs over seas? Give me a break. How about incomprehensibly cheap Chinese labor, deflated currency, cheaper/unsafe/illegal product composition, a monopoly of the global trade and manufacturing market.

Corporations all over the world love this shit, they aren't the ones getting shafted here.

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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 21:28:27 Reply

At 11/7/12 09:09 PM, Feoric wrote:
You lazy fucking liberals unable to afford those rising insurance premiums! Get a third job and remortgage your house you lazy bum!

The liberals keep voting for raises in premiums! They keep voting for more and more government involvement.

Why won't someone think of the struggling millionaires!!!

Millionaires!? Bitch, I'm talking about myself! I'm talking about middle (or lower) class americans who are struggling to even FUCKING EAT. You're telling me it's okay, for government to burden their employer with taxes and/or forcing them to purchase something? You do realize the money that I have will have to pay for insurance (that I don't even want) could be going to pay my car, my rent, my food, gas, etc right?

A large number of middle class americans are living PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK. There is no room in their budget for another bill or tax.

You think Republicans are greedy? Last I checked, Romney wasn't the one saying "hey, I know you're going through financial hardship. Here's another bill you're FORCED to pay under threat of financial penalty". No, no, sir. That was the guy with the communist father. That was the guy who lies for a living. That was the guy who's never earned, owned or built a business.

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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 21:33:39 Reply

At 11/7/12 09:28 PM, LemonCrush wrote: The liberals keep voting for raises in premiums! They keep voting for more and more government involvement.

The premiums were only raised because th insurance comanies know that most Americans are stupid enough to think they should raise. Capitalism at its finest.

Millionaires!? Bitch, I'm talking about myself! I'm talking about middle (or lower) class americans who are struggling to even FUCKING EAT. You're telling me it's okay, for government to burden their employer with taxes and/or forcing them to purchase something? You do realize the money that I have will have to pay for insurance (that I don't even want) could be going to pay my car, my rent, my food, gas, etc right?

And the money I would be paying to healthcare costs without government assistance would be that same very money that keeps me in a house.

You're lack of want for insurance right now, because you're healthy, is only going to raise my premiums when you're sick and get insurance. Get it?

A large number of middle class americans are living PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK. There is no room in their budget for another bill or tax.

That means they especiialy don;t have the money to pay for even minor health issues (such as a nagging toothache that would become an absess without a simple appointment). Get it?

You think Republicans are greedy? Last I checked, Romney wasn't the one saying "hey, I know you're going through financial hardship. Here's another bill you're FORCED to pay under threat of financial penalty". No, no, sir. That was the guy with the communist father. That was the guy who lies for a living. That was the guy who's never earned, owned or built a business.

No, Romney was the one who wanted to gut Medicare in order to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy.

Feoric
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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 21:34:01 Reply

At 11/7/12 09:28 PM, LemonCrush wrote: That was the guy with the communist father.

lol. I think you'd do better over here.

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Response to Four more years of taxing business 2012-11-07 21:42:32 Reply

At 11/7/12 09:33 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
The premiums were only raised because th insurance comanies know that most Americans are stupid enough to think they should raise. Capitalism at its finest.

No, the premiums are only raised because the goverment destroys the competetiveness of the market. Anti-capitlaism.

And the money I would be paying to healthcare costs without government assistance would be that same very money that keeps me in a house.

So, again, fuck my car payment, fuck my bills, as long as YOU'RE okay, it's all good?

You're lack of want for insurance right now, because you're healthy, is only going to raise my premiums when you're sick and get insurance. Get it?

So again, I should be forced to pay for somethng I can't afford as is?

That means they especiialy don;t have the money to pay for even minor health issues (such as a nagging toothache that would become an absess without a simple appointment). Get it?

Exactly. So in your world, the obvious solution, is to make me pay for something I can't afford?

No, Romney was the one who wanted to gut Medicare in order to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy.

No he didn't. Romney stated SEVERAL times, that he was going to leave taxes on wealthy untouched, and focus more on tax cuts for middle class and small business. Obama is the one who took almost a billion dollars from Medicare