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leanlifter1
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 14:36:09 Reply

At 11/8/12 02:29 PM, Profanity wrote:
What you just said is that the 45 million Americans without health insurance should be allowed to go without healthcare because they couldn't afford it.

13 key signifiers of Fascism.
#2. Disdain for the importance of human rights


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BarryLyndonIII
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 15:01:50 Reply

Obama won because, while he isn't that good, the alternative is worse.

Most arguments made for Romney were actually arguments agaisnt Obama. Admit it, does anybody anywhere in any point in time ever knew exactly was were Romney's stances on anything? No; Romney was too inconsistent in his views in many major issues.

Related to that (get ready for some serious Looper style shit in this paragraph), Romney lost because he was basically running agaisnt himself. The Romney in the beginning of his campaign was not the same Romney at the end of his campaign. Thus, Past Romney essentially killed Future Romney, by way of changing his beliefs mid-campaign, thus Romney splitting himself into two separate quantic beings running against themselves-

Mind=Blown.

The fact that Romney went out of its way to fuck Ron Paul and his followers in the ass ultimately destroyed him. He and his party (more on that in a moment) were not aware of the slow but steady demographic shift that has been happening in the last couple years. 11 percent of voters were black, 10 percent Latino, and 19 percent young voters.

By fucking Ron Paul and followers in the ass ultimately destroyed his appeal to the three tiers mentioned above. (Yes, Paul was popular with the above mentioned).

And finally, Romney lost because of the Republican Party. On the last couple years, the Republican Party went way far right for their own good. What once was the Party of personal responsability, laissez-faire and the triumph of Capitalism, ultimately turned into a bunch of theocrats forcing their Catholic values on everyone else, war-crazy PTSD-struck psychopaths, racists, and Glenn Beck.

Unless the Republican Party goes out of its way to reevaluate itself and glance of the mess it turned into, like the Democrats did in the 90's with Clinton, they may as well cease to exist.

Camarohusky
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 15:08:49 Reply

At 11/8/12 01:03 PM, adrshepard wrote: Classic reasoning of Obama's ideal voter: taxes don't depress the economy, evil GREEDY businessmen do. You're chiding korriken for not making intelligent contributions to the discussion and here you are claiming that higher taxes don't negatively affect commerce.

Wages get deducted from gross income. So if the wages are deducted from gross income, how exactly does higher taxes, which do not cover income that goes to employee wages, hurt jobs?

Like what? When your starting proposal is totally outrageous, like raising taxes on anyone during a recession, watering it down a bit doesn't make it a compromise.

So in order to compromise he has to give up the only point he wants? That's not compromise, that's submission.

Created by republicans? As though "republicans" is one monolithic, homogenous group with no difference in opinion in its members?

Pass the buck. Who needs personal responsibility when you're a Republican? Face it, Obamacare immitates the Republican proposal of a country 20 years more conservative, and now it's too liberal? Petty gamesmanship at its best. If things were different and the same exact legislation was called MCCaincare you can be damn sure that the Republicans would have cummed on it 100 times each.

such as the dramatic cuts to Medicare reimbursements,

If you had a shred of knowledge about the ACA you'd ralize those numbers are projected. Projected on what? Projected on less NEED to pay those reimbursements are a result of funnelling what is not dual medicare medicaid coverage into just one of the two programs.

the birth control mandates,

Because The Conservatives would rather pay hundreds of thousands per unwanted child than a few bucks here and there for a rubber... Penny pinchers only when they want to be.

the overreach into private companies' budgets,

By providing them a cheaper alternative?

and the basic fact that the legislation, despite its trillion dollar price tag, does very little to actually bring down healthcare costs (the measures that could bring costs down cost relatively little to implement).

So the attempt to shift the payment of healthcare from a procedure based (whcih rewards subpar and shoddy work) to a quaity based system, thus ncouraging proper procedures the first time isn't saving money? Encouraging people to get preventative care for simple things like exhaustion, constipation, toothaches, stomachaches and so on that are cheap to fix, but if left alone could become expensive problems such as intestinal rupture, absess, ulcers is more expensive?

What fucking business school did the GOP get straght Fs in?

Feoric
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 16:43:58 Reply

At 11/8/12 01:03 PM, adrshepard wrote: Classic reasoning of Obama's ideal voter: taxes don't depress the economy, evil GREEDY businessmen do. You're chiding korriken for not making intelligent contributions to the discussion and here you are claiming that higher taxes don't negatively affect commerce.

Would you seriously make the case that if taxes were higher than they are right now for upper income brackets it would be bad for the economy? Because I'd love to hear it!

jimbobmuffincake
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 16:54:15 Reply

At 11/6/12 11:21 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 11/6/12 11:20 PM, koopahermit wrote: Obama is president for 4 more years!
Discuss.
Enjoy your new Dictator guy's.

I know, this is going to be awful, I think


ila

leanlifter1
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 17:30:06 Reply

At 11/8/12 04:54 PM, jimbobmuffincake wrote:
At 11/6/12 11:21 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 11/6/12 11:20 PM, koopahermit wrote: Obama is president for 4 more years!
Discuss.
Enjoy your new Dictator guy's.
I know, this is going to be awful, I think

Well that is up to Obama now as "the people" that voted him in, the people that don't give a shit, and the people that oppose him are all locked into a 4 year dictatorship in where Obama can do what ever he wants including start WWIII with China and Russia and there is fuck all anyone can do about it. Welcome to thew Republic Of America where you have the option to choose 1of 2 dictators but you do not have a say in anything else after that.


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JMHX
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 17:54:00 Reply

>Someone has policies I don't like
>Dictator

Oh shit I'm back in high school.


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leanlifter1
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 18:05:48 Reply

At 11/8/12 05:54 PM, JMHX wrote: >Someone has policies I don't like
>Dictator

What does Obama do when he talks on TV he "Dictates" to "The People" what is going to happen heck he even uses Rhetorical Bombast and talks down to people just like a Dictator. Modern dictators have usually come to power in times of emergency such as 9/11. A dictator is a ruler with total power or is someone who rules by force including Wars of Terror, Police state, Obsession with National Security, regardless of what others want or need Though I will admit Obama is quite a benevolent Dictator.


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Camarohusky
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 18:29:19 Reply

At 11/8/12 06:05 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: TV he "Dictates" to "The People" what is going to happen

I'm pretty sure the term "dictator" when used in the political context doesn't apply merely to "one who dictates".

leanlifter1
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 18:45:07 Reply

At 11/8/12 06:29 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 11/8/12 06:05 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: TV he "Dictates" to "The People" what is going to happen
I'm pretty sure the term "dictator" when used in the political context doesn't apply merely to "one who dictates".

However when that person whom is doing the dictating was appointed by his people to do there thinking and decision making for them then this would be a Dictator. Obama is a Nationalist Dictator operating under a Peoples Republic for another 4 years term and in this time you will not have any say not even a little bit.


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Camarohusky
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 19:14:01 Reply

At 11/8/12 06:45 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: However when that person whom is doing the dictating was appointed by his people to do there thinking and decision making for them then this would be a Dictator.

Still not the definition of a political dictator.

Korriken
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 19:26:18 Reply

someone said dick tater?

4 more years!


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

Warforger
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 19:39:08 Reply

At 11/8/12 02:26 AM, JeremyLokken wrote: Yeah, who knows, maybe unicorns will magically save the economy. It's regulations that are driving businesses out of CA, and preventing growth.

Living in CA that is not the case. Businesses are not leaving CA because of regulations, it's more because the economy had been declining since the dot.com burst.

Obama owns this economy, and he was in complete control of it from 2008-2009 with a full super majority. He did nothing to fix the economy.

Stimulus.

In fact, he jeopardized it with a radical healthcare plan.

It hasn't even gone into effect.

If you take the stance that Obama has almost no control over the economy, then you have to take the stance that Bush had almost no control over the economy. It's the same position handling the same job.

Right, I do treat Bush like that. Now the government does have influence, but it does not control the actions of businessmen that much, which are what's keeping things from going. For example, there's around 32 trillion in offshore accounts by US businessmen, this is of course contributing to the recession.

He is the leader of the United States and remains partisan. That is failure to negotiate and compromise.

You know i pointed out he did, and the fault was in the house and senate.

He demands the other side to go against their values and beliefs to get what he wants (example: public assisted abortion) without compromising his own, or sacrificing anything.

Um that's been the case for like decades in terms of family planning, but he hasn't done anything. Now if you count all forms of Birth Control as abortion then perhaps.

This is not how government functions. That is a sign of narcissism and weakness.

Alright, tell me, how is going to comrpomise when your party has the majority in Congress, having a Senate minority leader saying their #1 goal is to deny him a second term and one where even when he worked with Republicans on a budget it died in the Senate. Tell me what part of that is his fault?

Obamacare was anything but compromise. Congress was pissed off they didn't have a chance to read the 2,000 pages in the few days given. Pelosi said, "we have to pass it before we know what is in it." It was reckless and radical. Very messy government. And it was rammed through in a partisan manner and still remains unpopular by the majority of Americans.

lulz. Nope, originally it was a government option, it would have established a government run healthcare company. He went to the Republicans with this, they presented the idea of a healthcare mandate, an idea that originated back in the 90's from the Heritage foundation and something they presented as an alternative to Clintons healthcare reform and he accepted it and made it into Obamacare (hence why Romneycare is the same as Obamacare). The Republicans in response became hostile to even this and didn't vote for it. So someone was partisan of this case, it probably wasn't Obama.


"If you don't mind smelling like peanut butter for two or three days, peanut butter is darn good shaving cream.
" - Barry Goldwater.

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leanlifter1
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 19:48:31 Reply

At 11/8/12 07:14 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 11/8/12 06:45 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: However when that person whom is doing the dictating was appointed by his people to do there thinking and decision making for them then this would be a Dictator.
Still not the definition of a political dictator.

Dictator - one ruling absolutely and often oppressively
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dictator
Yup Obama's a Dictator for sure.


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Camarohusky
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 19:51:51 Reply

At 11/8/12 07:48 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Dictator - one ruling absolutely and often oppressively
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dictator
Yup Obama's a Dictator for sure.

You have two things to prove here:

Absolute.

Oppressive.

Get on it. Sources. REAL sources.

leanlifter1
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 20:06:22 Reply

At 11/8/12 07:51 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
You have two things to prove here:

Don't have anything to prove it's just the reality of things as they currently stand.

Absolute.

For another 4 years until the next Nationalistic Dictator under "The Peoples Republic of America" takes over the ongoing agenda of Oppression set forth by the Bush Admin ...

Oppressive.

9/11, War on Iraq, War on Drugs, War(s) of Terror, Obsession with National Security, Militarized police and Boarder control, SOPA/ PIPA, "Taxation Without Representation", Debt based FIAT currency, Oh and the single largest Oppressive Military force in the World. How's that for Oppression :-)


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Feoric
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 20:08:26 Reply

At 11/8/12 08:06 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: "Taxation Without Representation"

I don't think you understand the history and meaning of this phrase.

Camarohusky
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 20:11:23 Reply

At 11/8/12 08:06 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Don't have anything to prove it's just the reality of things as they currently stand.

Yes you do. You're claiming he's absolutist and oppressive. No one else here agrees. Meaning, you must prove your affirmative claims.

For another 4 years until the next Nationalistic Dictator under "The Peoples Republic of America" takes over the ongoing agenda of Oppression set forth by the Bush Admin ...

Blah blah blah. Prove your claim, no bullshit.

9/11, War on Iraq, War on Drugs, War(s) of Terror, Obsession with National Security, Militarized police and Boarder control, SOPA/ PIPA, "Taxation Without Representation", Debt based FIAT currency, Oh and the single largest Oppressive Military force in the World. How's that for Oppression :-)

AT MOST, TWO of those things could even be tangentially considered oppression. Use sources and actually try. Spouting your conspiracy theory crap isn;t proof of anything at all.

Try again, with REAL proof this time. Like specific examples of how the American people are being oppressed by Obama specifically.

leanlifter1
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 20:18:35 Reply

At 11/8/12 08:08 PM, Feoric wrote:
At 11/8/12 08:06 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: "Taxation Without Representation"
I don't think you understand the history and meaning of this phrase.

"Taxation Without Representation"
A situation in which a government imposes taxes on a particular group of its citizens, despite the citizens not consenting or having an actual representative deliver their views when the taxation decision was made. This situation was one of the triggering events that spurred the original thirteen American colonies to revolt against the British Empire.

Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/tax_without_representati on.asp#ixzz2BgSrr4zx
In short "Taxation Without Representation" is an illegal and illegitimate Tax Levy imposed upon the people o North America and Originally was imposed upon the USA from "The British Empire". "Taxation Without Representation" was not just when the British when doing it and likewise it is not just when the American Government does it.


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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 20:26:45 Reply

At 11/8/12 11:21 AM, Camarohusky wrote: Don;t give me the "tax hurts busienss" bullshit. The only way tax hurts business is that the greedy owners cut out money that would otherwise go to the business to make up for their own taxes. It is actually owners who hurt business, not the taxes.

Oh you're one of those "greed is bad" people. That explains a lot.

You're also one of those "I have no idea how running a business works" people

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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 20:35:52 Reply

At 11/8/12 08:26 PM, LemonCrush wrote: You're also one of those "I have no idea how running a business works" people

If you're so smart, explain it. Explain how money that gets deducted from taxes can be affected by taxes?

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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 20:37:26 Reply

At 11/8/12 12:03 AM, Warforger wrote: Because it isn't really equal.

And it should be.

He hasn't been supporting wars, in fact he's been leaving them.

Really. On the FIRST DAY of his second term, the US bombed Yemen. Obama bombed Libya. He's continuing to bomb afghanistan. He's a warmonger.

Worst corporate junky or whatever you were saying. My point was that his legislation wasn't too corporate-friendly.

Nah, his brand of corporate friendliness is more like "Hey, you can't stay in the black. Here's billions of tax payer dollars"

You think it's a non-issue, it's not to everyone. It's like electing a racist, yah you can argue why it isn't that big of a deal BUT HE'S STILL A RACIST!

It IS a non-issue. At least to candidates running. I know this because they campaign on it, and do NOTHING about it in office.

You were attacking Obama.

Criticism =/= attack

I talked about them, he released some tax plan that was incomplete, his "plan" he talked about was pretty damn broad and just simple goals like get the economy going and Obama/Biden/Clinton shot them all down for that. Everyone listened.

As opposed to Obama's totally complete and concise tax idea, right?

Romney's plan was so simple a 3rd grader could grasp it. Let small businesses keep the money they earn. That is pretty self explanitory.

Because he's not the guy running on the platform of "ABORTION WILL BE ILLEGAL IN ALL CASES EVEN IN RAPE AND INCEST". The Tea party seems to have had candidates like that show killed their political careers such as Todd Akin and Murdouck.

Do you honestly think, seriously, that if Romney was elected, that abortion would be outlawed?

E) People who look at the economy and say "Oh this is good" are retarded
Depends in which state you live in or your personal situation. Obviously it hasn't been that bad considering that Obama won re-election.

Hi, unemployment is above 16%. Unemployment among young people (as of July 2012) was around 50% according to the BLS. Business now have an extra tax burden on Obamacare. Small businesses are closing all over the nation.

Romney is not far right dude lol. Obama is more like Bush than Romney is.
Oh he himself isn't, but during the primaries he positioned himself far right to get the nomination. This is mainly because of the witch hunt by the TEA party to weed out more moderate candidates. That was what I was referring to, the influence of too right wing forces on the Republican party is really holding them back in Presidential elections.

Well, I agree with you there. THe two parties are almost identical to one another these days.

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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 20:42:19 Reply

At 11/8/12 08:35 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 11/8/12 08:26 PM, LemonCrush wrote: You're also one of those "I have no idea how running a business works" people
If you're so smart, explain it. Explain how money that gets deducted from taxes can be affected by taxes?

You seem to like to ask everyone else to prove whatever you don't find convenient for your opinion/agenda so how about you provide an proper argument for my debate on Oppression and Dictatorship please and then we can carry on diffusing how "A business works" at it's core fundamental levels.


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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 20:46:24 Reply

At 11/8/12 08:37 PM, LemonCrush wrote: Really. On the FIRST DAY of his second term, the US bombed Yemen. Obama bombed Libya. He's continuing to bomb afghanistan. He's a warmonger.

Seeing as pred strikes are a very effective method of keeping boots off the ground, I'd say that's a pretty good method of backing out of the ground wars,

Nah, his brand of corporate friendliness is more like "Hey, you can't stay in the black. Here's billions of tax payer dollars"

It's more like: "If these companies fail every American will lose the majority of their savings. So let;s bite the bullet and give the big boys everyone's money back so everyone doesn;t lose their money."


As opposed to Obama's totally complete and concise tax idea, right?

A concise tax plan is a total pipe dream.

Romney's plan was so simple a 3rd grader could grasp it. Let small businesses keep the money they earn. That is pretty self explanitory.

By small businesses you mean ones like Bain?

Do you honestly think, seriously, that if Romney was elected, that abortion would be outlawed?

Yes, the Current Supremee Court struggles with it as it is. Adding a couple conservative justices in place of Breyer and Ginsburg would result in illegal abortion in a matter of years.

Hi, unemployment is above 16%. Unemployment among young people (as of July 2012) was around 50% according to the BLS. Business now have an extra tax burden on Obamacare. Small businesses are closing all over the nation.

Not everyone is stupid enough to think the POTUS can control the economy. On top of that, most know the economy goes up and down, but social rights ad policies take years to build and years to cement.

Well, I agree with you there. THe two parties are almost identical to one another these days.

Only to those who rest at the fringes and lack the ability to see the world from others' shoes.

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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 20:50:18 Reply

At 11/8/12 08:42 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: You seem to like to ask everyone else to prove whatever you don't find convenient for your opinion/agenda so how about you provide an proper argument for my debate on Oppression and Dictatorship please and then we can carry on diffusing how "A business works" at it's core fundamental levels.

First off. You make claims that hardly land in the same state as the general opinion, let alone far out in left field. NOTHING YOU SAY IS ACCEPTED ON ITS FACE BY ANYONE HERE. If you want something accepted you must either make our opinions not far fetched, or back them up.

As far as Lemon, I have statedthat income used to pay age is not taxed, and then mde the correlation that taxes do notaffect te ability to pay wages. He isputes that at a fundamental level, yet has not said why. If you're going to disagree with something that appears to be a simple as 1+1=2, you better back it up.

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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 20:57:04 Reply

At 11/8/12 08:50 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 11/8/12 08:42 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: You seem to like to ask everyone else to prove whatever you don't find convenient for your opinion/agenda so how about you provide an proper argument for my debate on Oppression and Dictatorship please and then we can carry on diffusing how "A business works" at it's core fundamental levels.
First off. You make claims that hardly land in the same state as the general opinion, let alone far out in left field. NOTHING YOU SAY IS ACCEPTED ON ITS FACE BY ANYONE HERE. If you want something accepted you must either make our opinions not far fetched, or back them up.

That's not how it works I provided clear and easy to grasp truths such as the Presidency is locked into a 4 year term and that an example of oppression is the Military Force and then you still claim you do not believe it's true and you want it to be double certified LOL. I think you're one of them that when told the sky is blue you admittedly say no it's actually not and then try and claim that the person that told you the sky is blue also meant that the sky was falling.


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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 21:09:58 Reply

At 11/8/12 08:08 PM, Feoric wrote:
At 11/8/12 08:06 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: "Taxation Without Representation"
I don't think you understand the history and meaning of this phrase.

Arizona taxed for Federal border security and not getting it.


Rainbow Animations <-- for my website.

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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 21:16:06 Reply

At 11/8/12 08:46 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 11/8/12 08:37 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
Seeing as pred strikes are a very effective method of keeping boots off the ground, I'd say that's a pretty good method of backing out of the ground wars,

Oh okay, he's getting out of "ground wars". Still kills people.

It's more like: "If these companies fail every American will lose the majority of their savings. So let;s bite the bullet and give the big boys everyone's money back so everyone doesn;t lose their money."

Huh, when Republicans use this logic, they're demonized for it. Funny how that works.
BTW, GM wouldn't have failed. They would've gotten bought out, like Chrysler, or just restructured like Ford. But then again, I don't think American peoples savings should be tied to the AWU or any company anyway.

A concise tax plan is a total pipe dream.

Only if you care about pissing people off.

By small businesses you mean ones like Bain?

He stated several times that the tax code on big buisness would remain unchanged, because they aren't affected as much by it. Tax code of companies like Bain Capital is an irrelevant topic when talking about taxation of small companies.

Stay on topic, we're talking about his plan for SMALL BUSINESS.

Yes, the Current Supremee Court struggles with it as it is. Adding a couple conservative justices in place of Breyer and Ginsburg would result in illegal abortion in a matter of years.

Yeah, because that's happened before.

Not everyone is stupid enough to think the POTUS can control the economy. On top of that, most know the economy goes up and down, but social rights ad policies take years to build and years to cement.

The POTUS absolutely controls the economy when he gives away tax payer dollars and corporate welfare.

Only to those who rest at the fringes and lack the ability to see the world from others' shoes.

No I'm pretty sure EVERYONE in the US with 2 brain cells can see that war is bad, the Bill of Rights is good, and spending money you don't have is stupid.

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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 21:58:51 Reply

At 11/8/12 08:18 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 11/8/12 08:08 PM, Feoric wrote:
At 11/8/12 08:06 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: "Taxation Without Representation"
I don't think you understand the history and meaning of this phrase.
"Taxation Without Representation"
A situation in which a government imposes taxes on a particular group of its citizens, despite the citizens not consenting or having an actual representative deliver their views when the taxation decision was made. This situation was one of the triggering events that spurred the original thirteen American colonies to revolt against the British Empire.

The colonists were upset there were no American PMs in the English parliament and they rightfully viewed the heavy taxes levied upon them unfair, as they had no representation in the British government. How the hell is this still applicable today? American politicians elected by Americans enact tax policies on the American citizens that elected them.

leanlifter1
leanlifter1
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Response to 4 more years! 2012-11-08 22:10:19 Reply

At 11/8/12 09:58 PM, Feoric wrote:
At 11/8/12 08:18 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 11/8/12 08:08 PM, Feoric wrote:
At 11/8/12 08:06 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: "Taxation Without Representation"
I don't think you understand the history and meaning of this phrase.
"Taxation Without Representation"
A situation in which a government imposes taxes on a particular group of its citizens, despite the citizens not consenting or having an actual representative deliver their views when the taxation decision was made. This situation was one of the triggering events that spurred the original thirteen American colonies to revolt against the British Empire.
The colonists were upset there were no American PMs in the English parliament and they rightfully viewed the heavy taxes levied upon them unfair, as they had no representation in the British government. How the hell is this still applicable today? American politicians elected by Americans enact tax policies on the American citizens that elected them.

"Taxation Without Representation" is still relevant today because nobody that pays taxes officially agreed to pay taxes they just pre accept and assume paying a Tax Levy as empirical and just apathetically and unwittingly volunteer to forfeit their personal right to refuse to pay the "troll toll" AKA illegitimate Tax Levy. "Everyone believes it so it must be just"


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