Be a Supporter!

Some over loud volume mumbojumbo

  • 619 Views
  • 16 Replies
New Topic Respond to this Topic
jpbear
jpbear
  • Member since: Apr. 24, 2010
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 03
Blank Slate
Some over loud volume mumbojumbo Nov. 5th, 2012 @ 09:15 PM Reply

The level the sub peaks is a very clear indicator of the general loudness of a track, most of that headroom is thrown into sub when that -3 is present.

Some examples of -9:
http://soundcloud.com/owslaofficial/kill-the-noise-feed-me-t humbs-up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dasOi4Fsy6Q

Some examples of -6:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcejLp72iCE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he2jtqnSj-Y

Do you like one or the other more? Does that extra boost in headroom cost anything/worth it?

On average -6 mastering sounds like its got that extra oomph to me.

this whole thread is obviously aimed towrards aggressive edm, electro house, dnb, etc
MetalRenard
MetalRenard
  • Member since: Sep. 19, 2012
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 09
Musician
Response to Some over loud volume mumbojumbo Nov. 5th, 2012 @ 09:28 PM Reply

This is a very wide question and comes under the "Loudness war" that's been going on for 20 odd years since technology has allowed for louder and louder music, always pushing the average volume of music towards -0db.

Personally, more headroom is always better, it allows the quiet parts to be quiet and the loud parts to be loud. -6db may seem to have more "oomph" to you, but try reducing both tracks to the same loudness and then listen and I'm pretty sure you'll prefer the -9. This is psychoacoustics, not necessarily my area of expertise but I've read about lots of aspects and I advise you do the same.

When music is louder, it is perceived to be "better". That's just how things are. But the mix will be of a better quality if it is quieter and THEN you just turn your volume knob up.

Of course, your genre of music uses peaks heavily in the beat, so having a flat waveform doesn't actually benefit it at all. As much as many people say you have to mix electro to louder levels, I disagree. All music benefits from more headroom.


Rocker, Composer and World Ambassador for Foxes! I'm on Youtube. Come check me out! Veteran REAPER user.

BBS Signature
jpbear
jpbear
  • Member since: Apr. 24, 2010
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 03
Blank Slate
Response to Some over loud volume mumbojumbo Nov. 5th, 2012 @ 10:20 PM Reply

At 11/5/12 09:28 PM, MetalRenard wrote:
Of course, your genre of music uses peaks heavily in the beat, so having a flat waveform doesn't actually benefit it at all. As much as many people say you have to mix electro to louder levels, I disagree. All music benefits from more headroom.

Well dynamics are really out of the window in both situations, its more a question of what flavor of a block waveform you want. :D

MetalRenard
MetalRenard
  • Member since: Sep. 19, 2012
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 09
Musician
Response to Some over loud volume mumbojumbo Nov. 6th, 2012 @ 05:30 AM Reply

Less blocky! :3
Sorry, just kidding around now.


Rocker, Composer and World Ambassador for Foxes! I'm on Youtube. Come check me out! Veteran REAPER user.

BBS Signature
Syztm
Syztm
  • Member since: Jul. 28, 2009
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 01
Audiophile
Response to Some over loud volume mumbojumbo Nov. 6th, 2012 @ 06:36 AM Reply

Most of my tracks tend to be very bass-heavy so I like to mix at -9 db to leave a little headroom for the sub-bass. I guess it's a matter of personal preference.


New tune: Yag

Blackhole12
Blackhole12
  • Member since: Sep. 21, 2006
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 15
Game Developer
Response to Some over loud volume mumbojumbo Nov. 6th, 2012 @ 06:42 AM Reply

I suck so my tracks are just whatever doesn't clip with however much bass doesn't clip.

Ectohelix
Ectohelix
  • Member since: Jul. 30, 2012
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 01
Musician
Response to Some over loud volume mumbojumbo Nov. 6th, 2012 @ 12:51 PM Reply

At 11/5/12 09:28 PM, MetalRenard wrote: When music is louder, it is perceived to be "better". That's just how things are. But the mix will be of a better quality if it is quieter and THEN you just turn your volume knob up.

I was just about to post about this (Volume). Measuring (average) RMS, Up until recently, everyone has told me -11 (db) for electronic music, is the way to go. Again, on average, and I was told that -10 and above are TOO LOUD!!! Also not to overly concern myself with volume so much as making a good track.

Recently however, I've started picking apart other (successful) musician's work and seeing what they do, to educate myself on popular/accepted practice. I've seen some go up to even -6, but the average was around -7.5 ... so, I tried it and it does generally sound better (that or I'm going crazy, also quite possible).

So, while being compressed/limited.... turn it up to 11? What's the best volumn (or RMS) to work to? Cause right now I'm just going on whatever sounds good to me, and that may not be entirely correct.


Find me on: Facebook, Twitter, or Soundcloud.

DDman465
DDman465
  • Member since: Jul. 26, 2006
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 06
Musician
Response to Some over loud volume mumbojumbo Nov. 7th, 2012 @ 04:51 PM Reply

At 11/6/12 12:51 PM, Ectohelix wrote:
At 11/5/12 09:28 PM, MetalRenard wrote:

:Cause right now I'm just going on whatever sounds good to me, and that may not be entirely correct.

Isn't that the point?

guitarmandan
guitarmandan
  • Member since: Jul. 26, 2009
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 03
Musician
Response to Some over loud volume mumbojumbo Nov. 7th, 2012 @ 06:44 PM Reply

At 11/7/12 04:51 PM, DDman465 wrote:
At 11/6/12 12:51 PM, Ectohelix wrote:
At 11/5/12 09:28 PM, MetalRenard wrote:
Cause right now I'm just going on whatever sounds good to me, and that may not be entirely correct.
Isn't that the point?

I have to second this... I wouldn't get so caught up on what the levels are. Trust your ears... the rest is irrelevant.

Ectohelix
Ectohelix
  • Member since: Jul. 30, 2012
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 01
Musician
Response to Some over loud volume mumbojumbo Nov. 8th, 2012 @ 10:37 AM Reply

At 11/7/12 06:44 PM, guitarmandan wrote: I have to second this... I wouldn't get so caught up on what the levels are. Trust your ears... the rest is irrelevant.

You two have delivered me the best news I've heard in a while. Yeah, it should've been obvious, but I'm no pro at mastering. So, I'm always nervous that while I THINK It sounds right (in my opinion), it might not actually.


Find me on: Facebook, Twitter, or Soundcloud.

gavkay21
gavkay21
  • Member since: Nov. 2, 2010
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 03
Musician
Response to Some over loud volume mumbojumbo Nov. 8th, 2012 @ 10:52 AM Reply

-6 for me

seel
seel
  • Member since: Jun. 27, 2005
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 21
Musician
Response to Some over loud volume mumbojumbo Nov. 8th, 2012 @ 01:54 PM Reply

At 11/6/12 12:51 PM, Ectohelix wrote: Recently however, I've started picking apart other (successful) musician's work and seeing what they do, to educate myself on popular/accepted practice. I've seen some go up to even -6, but the average was around -7.5 ... so, I tried it and it does generally sound better (that or I'm going crazy, also quite possible).

-6dB RMS and louder is popular because it's loud as fuck (when something is louder it often sounds better, because psychoacoustics) and average Joe schome can't tell when a song has been ruined by the mastering engineer or bedroom warrior who went to town with his cracked L1 because our friend Joe is listening on 5$ earbuds.

So, while being compressed/limited.... turn it up to 11? What's the best volumn (or RMS) to work to? Cause right now I'm just going on whatever sounds good to me, and that may not be entirely correct.

If it's good it's good, though that is highly subjective and your opinion on what sounds good will most likely change over time, especially when you get more experienced. Don't be afraid to reference your favourite artists and engineers, even pros reference sometimes.

Ectohelix
Ectohelix
  • Member since: Jul. 30, 2012
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 01
Musician
Response to Some over loud volume mumbojumbo Nov. 8th, 2012 @ 03:15 PM Reply

I don't even know what you're referring to "Cracked L1"... but yeah, earbuds suck.

It's obvious I'm not a pro (according to newgrounds ratings, I've actually gotten worse), and The artist I was referring to that seems to buzz around -7.5 is Ephixa, but I'm sure he's gone louder too. I asked him about it and he says "You must first know the rules before you can bend them." Which is a polite way of saying, "You're a noob, piss off."

How to bend spoon Neo?!


Find me on: Facebook, Twitter, or Soundcloud.

SineRider
SineRider
  • Member since: Apr. 21, 2006
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Moderator
Level 18
Musician
Response to Some over loud volume mumbojumbo Nov. 8th, 2012 @ 05:09 PM Reply

At 11/8/12 03:15 PM, Ectohelix wrote: The artist I was referring to that seems to buzz around -7.5 is Ephixa, but I'm sure he's gone louder too. I asked him about it and he says "You must first know the rules before you can bend them." Which is a polite way of saying, "You're a noob, piss off."

How to bend spoon Neo?!

I can't stand that guy.

jpbear
jpbear
  • Member since: Apr. 24, 2010
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 03
Blank Slate
Response to Some over loud volume mumbojumbo Nov. 8th, 2012 @ 05:43 PM Reply

At 11/8/12 05:09 PM, SineRider wrote:
At 11/8/12 03:15 PM, Ectohelix wrote: The artist I was referring to that seems to buzz around -7.5 is Ephixa, but I'm sure he's gone louder too. I asked him about it and he says "You must first know the rules before you can bend them."
I can't stand that guy.

+1

Nothing special going on with his mixing/mastering too.

The examples i provided in the original post are far stronger mixes, especially the dnb ones!

guitarmandan
guitarmandan
  • Member since: Jul. 26, 2009
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 03
Musician
Response to Some over loud volume mumbojumbo Nov. 8th, 2012 @ 05:59 PM Reply

At 11/8/12 10:37 AM, Ectohelix wrote:
At 11/7/12 06:44 PM, guitarmandan wrote: I have to second this... I wouldn't get so caught up on what the levels are. Trust your ears... the rest is irrelevant.
You two have delivered me the best news I've heard in a while. Yeah, it should've been obvious, but I'm no pro at mastering. So, I'm always nervous that while I THINK It sounds right (in my opinion), it might not actually.

I had a guitar teacher that use to tell me the ONLY important thing was the attitude coming out of your speaker cabinet. How it got there isn't as important as the results. Just trust yourself. That confidence will go a long way in carrying your music for you.

guitarmandan
guitarmandan
  • Member since: Jul. 26, 2009
  • Offline.
Forum Stats
Member
Level 03
Musician
Response to Some over loud volume mumbojumbo Nov. 8th, 2012 @ 06:05 PM Reply

At 11/8/12 03:15 PM, Ectohelix wrote: I don't even know what you're referring to "Cracked L1"... but yeah, earbuds suck.

It's obvious I'm not a pro (according to newgrounds ratings, I've actually gotten worse), and The artist I was referring to that seems to buzz around -7.5 is Ephixa, but I'm sure he's gone louder too. I asked him about it and he says "You must first know the rules before you can bend them." Which is a polite way of saying, "You're a noob, piss off."

How to bend spoon Neo?!

That just sounds like he's being arrogant and skirting the question so he doesn't have to answer it... smacks of elitism. As if its way too beneath him to help someone out.
Just keep doing your thing and trust your ears. You can't please everybody when it comes to art... so just strive to create something you can be proud of.