The Stem of Progress

[JMHX]

Taken from my latest Useless Knowledge column.

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I often find myself wondering about the specifics of stem-cell research, and on the news that Britain would be launching its first major stem-cell laboratory; I had to finally sort out my exact opinions on the subject. Briefly I was engaged in discussion over stem-cell and cloning when President Bush made his anti-cloning statements early in his term, but cloning has never been my interest. It all seems too distant.

Stem-cells, on the other hand, have the potential to serve a very important and beneficial role in society. Their versatile characteristics make for nearly limitless possibilities – everything from kidneys for those in need to skin grafts without the tearing.

The main opponents to stem-cell research in the United States come in the form of religious right-wingers, as has always been the case in most issues involving science.

We remember the Scopes Trial, where the religious right moved to block evolution from schools and were made fools of in court.

We remember Roe v Wade, when the Supreme Court made its landmark decision that medical abortion procedures should be legal in all states – flying in the face of what the religious right had been lobbying for.

Now we stand ready for yet another fight against the religious extremists of the right. This one does not simply unfold within the boundaries of the United States, but throughout the world.

Stem-cells provide important slates with which to virtually draw up any organ, any tissue that is needed. It has the potential to shrink hospital waiting lists for organs, lower the prices of transplant procedures, and provide needed organs and tissues to hospitals in other nations that previously had to do without.

We could, with worldwide support and funding for the stem-cell program, redraw the wheel as it stands in the medical profession. No longer would scientists have too few organs to study, too few tissues to mend those injured. We would very nearly have a bounty, for the first time in medical history, an organ donation bounty!

The religious fanatics of the right flock and picket because, to get the stem cells, to obtain these building blocks that would cure and help find cures for billions, we must remove them from fetuses.

Now, I’m respecting of the views of others, but when you are laying out the equation of one potential life as defined by the Supreme Court, one fetus to save millions of lives, it is the good of the whole that must prevail. How foolish we would be to sacrifice the good of billions, of very nearly all the world, because the skewing in the religious right declares we should not.

We must remember that there is an area of the world where religion has been granted carte blanche in drafting what is just and what is not. We call that area the Middle East, the Cradle of Terror, the focus of our President’s woes.

The religious right must know that they cannot prevent the easing of the ills of the world simply because they feel it is not right. An aborted fetus, instead of going to waste as the religious right prefers they do now, since they are unable to stop the abortion process itself, could go to infinite use for millions in need.

Stem-cells allow us to help our ailing brethren. What is more noble than that?

[RedSkunk]

Yes, stem cells could be usefull. Especially those juicy ones from fetuses. mmmmmm..

[GooieGreen]

Ehh, I'm undecided on it. It may save lives, but it also help those dirty cloners. Like we need a galactic war on our hands... I mean, like we need 2 Janet Jacksons.

[Jlop985]

I support stem cell research, but I think that the cells should be taken from embryos that were already going to be killed. I don't want embryos grown solely for the research.

[D-R-P]

At 5/21/04 11:38 PM, Jlop985 wrote: I support stem cell research, but I think that the cells should be taken from embryos that were already going to be killed. I don't want embryos grown solely for the research.

Agreed. The idea of 'fetus farms' is very disturbing. As long as abortion is legal, those embryos should be going to research facilities, not medical waste bins.

[JMHX]

At 5/22/04 12:28 AM, D_R_P wrote:

At 5/21/04 11:38 PM, Jlop985 wrote: The idea of 'fetus farms' is very disturbing. As long as abortion is legal, those embryos should be going to research facilities, not medical waste bins.

Fetus Farms seems a bit Orwellian, but I agree with your view.

[D-R-P]

At 5/22/04 12:39 AM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote:

At 5/22/04 12:28 AM, D_R_P wrote:

At 5/21/04 11:38 PM, Jlop985 wrote: The idea of 'fetus farms' is very disturbing. As long as abortion is legal, those embryos should be going to research facilities, not medical waste bins.

Fetus Farms seems a bit Orwellian, but I agree with your view.

Doesn't it have a nice ring to it though? 'Fetus Farms'... Rolls right off the tongue.

[BeFell]

Fetuses aren't the only source of stem cells.

[Samuel-HALL]

At 5/21/04 10:59 PM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote:

I do agree with you, totally. Medical advancement, in all it's spectacular or minute forms, should be embraced.

But do you have to make everything a battle with the 'religious right-wingers'?

And i can say that impartially, because i'm not one of them.

[Samuel-HALL]

At 5/22/04 02:36 AM, BeFell wrote: Fetuses aren't the only source of stem cells.

Well then, brother, don't just make general statements; expand our mind with your knowledge.

[BeFell]

At 5/22/04 03:00 AM, Damien3003 wrote:

At 5/22/04 02:36 AM, BeFell wrote: Fetuses aren't the only source of stem cells.

Well then, brother, don't just make general statements; expand our mind with your knowledge.

I don't want to get bombarded by lefties in another fetus debate, the name calling in the first post tells me all I need to know about what kind of discussion it would be. My statement is correct and anybody interested is free to research.

[Samuel-HALL]

At 5/22/04 03:09 AM, BeFell wrote:

I don't want to get bombarded by lefties in another fetus debate, the name calling in the first post tells me all I need to know about what kind of discussion it would be. My statement is correct and anybody interested is free to research.

Oh don't worry about that name calling in the first post...that's just rugby's 'useless knowledge' style. And i wasn't attempting to 'bombarde' anyone...i was just curious. So fuck ya.

[BeFell]

At 5/22/04 03:15 AM, Damien3003 wrote: Oh don't worry about that name calling in the first post...that's just rugby's 'useless knowledge' style. And i wasn't attempting to 'bombarde' anyone...i was just curious. So fuck ya.

Calm down, I was just letting you know why I don't want to go into great detail because anything I post will be attacked to a point that I couldn't maintain an active debate. I wasn't accusing you of bombarding.

[bumcheekcity]

BeFell, you know we all love you here. Enlighten us.

I personally am completely on the side of wanting more stem-cell theory research. To be honest, if it helps save lives, then it's definately a good thing. However, if BeFell is correct, and there are other places to get the Stem Cells, then I don't see what the need for fetuses is, and the experiments should be carried otu with the stem cells gained from wherever.

[Reverend-Kyle]

I might just be crazy, but the idea of 'fetus farms' doesn't seem that much different than fish farming or cattle farming, for that matter. We're killing things to benefit ourselves-- why are we so hesitant to 'kill' an embryo?

Stem cell research does sound great, and if there is away to get them without anything being harmed (which I doubt there is), then that's good too.

I don't see why George W. would be so opposed to stem cell research, though. He obviously thinks the 'removal' of one person will benefit millions eventually.

[darkphantom]

I agree with it also however I reckon there is more of a case agienst it than we think. It has been recentely proven that in some species at least, that there is such a thing as a genetic memory.

In the experiment they shocked a type of worm whenever it moved towards a bright light eventually the worm learned not to move towards the light... the scientists then cut the worm in two a tail half and a head half they both grew back there retrospective parts... and they where both put back into the test, however both part knew not to move towards the light.

If this is possable in worms then it could be possable to occur in humans aswell and infact fetuses.

hold on guys I will see If I can find my sourse again.

[StatiK]

I support stem cell research, but I think Bush may have done the right thing in putting a temporary ban on it until its ethics can be debated. Although nobody likes to think about using fetuses for research, it's better that they go to use than being thrown away.

Interesting side not: How gross would it be to go dumpster diving, find a biomedical waste container, pop it open, and find a fetus?

[RedSkunk]

No one ever said that fetuses are the only source of stem cells, but they are the best source, bar none.

[RedSkunk]

At 5/22/04 12:06 PM, Intalekshual wrote: Interesting side not: How gross would it be to go dumpster diving, find a biomedical waste container, pop it open, and find a fetus?

Don't they incinerate the fetuses? Why yes, I believe they do. You wouldn't find them in a dumpster at any reputable clinic.

[JMHX]

The problem with Bush's move is that ethics can be debated for centuries. He's just postponing it.

[GooieGreen]

At 5/22/04 03:54 PM, JudgeMeHarshX wrote: The problem with Bush's move is that ethics can be debated for centuries. He's just postponing it.

very true, good point

[D-R-P]

At 5/22/04 12:06 PM, Intalekshual wrote: Interesting side not: How gross would it be to go dumpster diving, find a biomedical waste container, pop it open, and find a fetus?

That would be extremely gross, but how stupid would it be to pop open a biomedical waste container not knowing what was inside?

[JMHX]

At 5/22/04 06:11 PM, D_R_P wrote:

At 5/22/04 12:06 PM, Intalekshual wrote: Interesting side not: How gross would it be to go dumpster diving, find a biomedical waste container, pop it open, and find a fetus?

That would be extremely gross, but how stupid would it be to pop open a biomedical waste container not knowing what was inside?

DRP wins this one.

[Samuel-HALL]

At 5/22/04 10:28 AM, darkphantom wrote:

In the experiment they shocked a type of worm...
If this is possable in worms then it could be possable to occur in humans aswell and infact fetuses.

That's real enlightning, brother...but it's irrelevant. Worms operate off of instinct...trained to move away from the light. Fetuses, however, don't even have instinct.

[FatherVenom]

At 5/22/04 10:28 AM, darkphantom wrote: In the experiment they shocked a type of worm whenever it moved towards a bright light eventually the worm learned not to move towards the light... the scientists then cut the worm in two a tail half and a head half they both grew back there retrospective parts... and they where both put back into the test, however both part knew not to move towards the light.

If this is possable in worms then it could be possable to occur in humans aswell and infact fetuses.

While I agree with Damien, I think it's funny that you're proposing to cut fetuses in half and try to grow two whole ones from the halfs and then testing them.

[TheWakingDeath]

BeFell, i'm with bumcheek on this one. If you can provide a source, that would be extremely helpful. I'm interested to know if there is another way to get stem cells why there's such a battle over using fetuses. why not simply use this other source?

[JMHX]

Embryos and fetii. There you go.

[FUNKbrs]

Did you attack republicans enough in that rant? I got so bored reading your attacks on religious republicans I didn't bother reading what your article was actually about, you dirty liberal.

[RedSkunk]

At 5/23/04 07:37 PM, Izuamoto wrote: I'm interested to know if there is another way to get stem cells why there's such a battle over using fetuses. why not simply use this other source?

Because they aren't as useful. Why oh why does everyone ignore me?

Stem cells from adult cells have several limitations - they can't be grown into any type of cell, there's a much greater chance of mutated stem cells, etc, etc.

Here's a quick overview:
http://stemcells.nih.gov/stemcell/whatAreStemCells.asp

[Leap]

I have a personal interst in this subject. I am a type 1 (insulin dependant) diabetic. I have to inject myself four times a day in order to keep myself healthy and in the land of the living.

With stem cells I could repair my pancreas with cells that match my own DNA, thus improving my quality of life.

Stem cell research has the potential to save hundres of thousands of lives. Adult stem cells ,although less usefull than thouse from featoses(sp) are still usefull .Give the science a chance