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Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor

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TheRipper00
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Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor 2012-10-30 11:12:44 Reply

We all know that is not the case, but with the petition I have made hopefully we can make it a truth. I have made a petition on WhiteHouse.gov to change the election process. The petition states that we the people should be the deciding factor in the election of nominees. Not the small percentage of us that make up the electoral collage. So, if you want your vote to truly matter then please sign this petition. We can draw the attention to this issue that is needed for it be be changed.

Link to the Petition - Popular Vote Petition


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Camarohusky
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Response to Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor 2012-10-30 11:34:43 Reply

The electoral college require a hell of a lot more than a petition to change. It requires 2/3rd of all the state legilatures to propose the Constitutional Amendment followed by 3/4s of those legislatures ratifying it or 3/4 of the states approving it through Constitutional Conventions.

Your idea is a perfect example of why there should be some barrier between the ignorant public and the complex and intricate matters of running a country.

TheRipper00
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Response to Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor 2012-10-30 12:25:48 Reply

At 10/30/12 11:34 AM, Camarohusky wrote: The electoral college require a hell of a lot more than a petition to change. It requires 2/3rd of all the state legilatures to propose the Constitutional Amendment followed by 3/4s of those legislatures ratifying it or 3/4 of the states approving it through Constitutional Conventions.

Your idea is a perfect example of why there should be some barrier between the ignorant public and the complex and intricate matters of running a country.

Obviously the petition would not change the electoral collage, you apparently misunderstood or misread. The petition is simply to bring the issue up to the white house and hopefully with enough support from citizens signing the petition the issue can then progress forward toward the proper government channels. I know that it will take a lot more than a simple petition to change something as major as the electoral collage. Petitions is how normal citizens not in the government channels can bring up the issues that they feel need addressed in this country. You miss the point completely in the fact that OUR VOTES DO NOT ELECT OUR PRESIDENT. If you were not so focused on being an dickhead maybe you could have seen what the actual issue was.


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CaveStoryGrounds
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Response to Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor 2012-10-30 13:05:46 Reply

Look up the "Wolf PAC" They have a much better chance of getting the electoral college system removed and getting businesses out of government.

leanlifter1
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Response to Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor 2012-10-30 13:54:02 Reply

Yawn. Nothing will change no matter who is in power as the control mechanisms go far above one presidency. Mark my words nothing will change for the better and I have been saying this for every presidency and guess what I have always been right.


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Warforger
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Response to Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor 2012-10-30 18:29:56 Reply

At 10/30/12 11:34 AM, Camarohusky wrote: The electoral college require a hell of a lot more than a petition to change. It requires 2/3rd of all the state legilatures to propose the Constitutional Amendment followed by 3/4s of those legislatures ratifying it or 3/4 of the states approving it through Constitutional Conventions.

Your idea is a perfect example of why there should be some barrier between the ignorant public and the complex and intricate matters of running a country.

The only problem with that is that the electoral votes are now decided by the popular vote. But you're right, because there's no way in hell the small states will oblige to this and see their importance go away.


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Camarohusky
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Response to Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor 2012-10-30 19:50:59 Reply

At 10/30/12 12:25 PM, TheRipper00 wrote: Obviously the petition would not change the electoral collage, you apparently misunderstood or misread. The petition is simply to bring the issue up to the white house and hopefully with enough support from citizens signing the petition the issue can then progress forward toward the proper government channels.

You might as well send a petition to your local state legislature appealing to them to close Guantanimo, cause thats about as much power the Federal Government has on the Amendment process.

Both the proposal and the ratification processes do not involve any part of the Federal government, so why are you wasting your time pleading with them? It would be more effective to send 50 petitions, one to each state legislature, asking for change.

The best you could get from teh Federal government is some sympathy and maybe a request for the States to change.

TheMason
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Response to Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor 2012-10-31 10:46:06 Reply

At 10/30/12 12:25 PM, TheRipper00 wrote: If you were not so focused on being an dickhead maybe you could have seen what the actual issue was.

Just so you know...you were responding to a lawyer who probably understands the issue with far more nuance than you do. :)

He was being a dickhead...just pointing out that your efforts demonstrate an ignorance of how the system actually works.


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TheMason
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Response to Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor 2012-10-31 10:47:13 Reply

At 10/31/12 10:46 AM, TheMason wrote:

Oops there should've been a 'not' in there:

He was NOT being a dickhead...just pointing out that your efforts demonstrate an ignorance of how the system actually works.


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Camarohusky
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Response to Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor 2012-10-31 15:56:39 Reply

At 10/31/12 10:47 AM, TheMason wrote: He was NOT being a dickhead

No, I was. Just with a purpose.

TheMason
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Response to Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor 2012-11-01 01:33:17 Reply

At 10/31/12 03:56 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 10/31/12 10:47 AM, TheMason wrote: He was NOT being a dickhead
No, I was. Just with a purpose.

Just trying to help. And when does being right make someone a dickhead?


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BumFodder
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Response to Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor 2012-11-01 09:06:17 Reply

At 10/30/12 12:25 PM, TheRipper00 wrote: You miss the point completely in the fact that OUR VOTES DO NOT ELECT OUR PRESIDENT. If you were not so focused on being an dickhead maybe you could have seen what the actual issue was.

And whats so wrong with that? Its like that in every country, and its a good thing too. If there was a direct way of voting for someone then you can bet all the idiots would be lining up to vote for someone who couldnt run the place at all.

Camarohusky
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Response to Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor 2012-11-01 10:12:51 Reply

At 11/1/12 01:33 AM, TheMason wrote: And when does being right make someone a dickhead?

Being a dickhead isn't a result of what you say, rather how you say it.

Cootie
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Response to Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor 2012-11-01 10:30:55 Reply

At 11/1/12 09:06 AM, BumFodder wrote:
And whats so wrong with that? Its like that in every country, and its a good thing too. If there was a direct way of voting for someone then you can bet all the idiots would be lining up to vote for someone who couldnt run the place at all.

I actually wish we were a direct democracy.


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Camarohusky
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Response to Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor 2012-11-01 12:09:40 Reply

At 11/1/12 10:30 AM, Cootie wrote: I actually wish we were a direct democracy.

3 million people watch honey boo boo. You want to rethink that statement?

TheKlown
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Response to Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor 2012-11-01 16:58:02 Reply

They won't change it.


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orangebomb
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Response to Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor 2012-11-01 23:35:28 Reply

At 11/1/12 10:30 AM, Cootie wrote:
At 11/1/12 09:06 AM, BumFodder wrote:
I actually wish we were a direct democracy.

In small doses, {as in small towns} they actually do practice that, or at least in some variation of that, along with states like Michigan and Ohio that can have recalls and constitutional initiatives that was made by the people.

All in all though, it's impossible to do on a national level, considering that there are over 300 million people in America, which means it's almost impossible to keep track of what they want, much less what law needs to be enforced. Never mind the people who would create enough of a bitchfit to change/repeal the law every few days or so if they disagreed with the law, which creates even more squabbling than there already is in D.C. now.

The Athenian model of direct democracy worked because there wasn't a lot of people in the city-state of Athens, likewise for other city-states in Ancient Greece. Only men could make major decisions back then, and they were in small groups when they did it, trying to do that today on a national level simply wouldn't fly.


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Warforger
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Response to Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor 2012-11-02 00:52:16 Reply

At 11/1/12 11:35 PM, orangebomb wrote: The Athenian model of direct democracy worked because there wasn't a lot of people in the city-state of Athens, likewise for other city-states in Ancient Greece. Only men could make major decisions back then, and they were in small groups when they did it, trying to do that today on a national level simply wouldn't fly.

If you mean they made alot of stupid decisions that lead to the downfall of Athens then yah it was fucking perfect. The "mob mentality" ruined Athens. For example, during their war of dominance with Sparta they heard of a Spartan Ally in Sicily who was dominating the others and the city states there called for help. Archibides, one of the bright Greek Generals proposed a sort of small scale guerilla war to inspire an insurgency and use the city states for supplies, the leader of the Peace party on the other hand didn't want to go over there but since saying so would certainly mean exile or death so he proposed the dumbest plan he could think of, sending a large portion of the Athenian military to go carry out the task. Well guess what, they were so stupid they actually did that. Oh and Archibides and the leader of the Peace Party were put in command. Oh and the force was absolutely raped. Persia meanwhile saw this tremendous failure and while the Athenians were crippled quickly supplied the Spartans with a fleet, now the Spartans blockaded Athens from sea and successfully captured the city. Plato grew up during this period, and it's why Plato writes the Republic, which has a society based off of Sparta.

Oh yah, and they also condemned Socrates. So Athenian democracy was great...actually no it was just straight up horseshit and serves as a reminder why you don't have too much democracy.


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TheRipper00
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Response to Popular Vote to be Deciding Factor 2012-11-06 12:08:32 Reply

At 10/30/12 07:50 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 10/30/12 12:25 PM, TheRipper00 wrote:
Both the proposal and the ratification processes do not involve any part of the Federal government, so why are you wasting your time pleading with them? It would be more effective to send 50 petitions, one to each state legislature, asking for change.

The best you could get from the Federal government is some sympathy and maybe a request for the States to change.

I understand that the process it not going to be changed, it just seems to me that it is inherently undemocratic. They have 11 electoral votes here in Missouri. Those 11 people pledge for one party or the other, but if they choose to vote different then they can, although they can also have there vote negated for doing so. They can also be punished for voting against there pledge, 24 states have laws for this, although no elector has ever been punished. This created issues with me, this can prompt electors to attempt to change the outcome of an election based on there personal beliefs. I sight the election of 1836 and the Virgina electors in this instance. It also shows that in is unfair to trust a small group of people to represent an entire state.

It is a very flawed system, and not just because of party electors and faithless elector's. The fact that the party's elect there electors is a instantly biased way to approach electing an official. If the popular vote was the deciding factor then we would have a truly democratic election. There are issues there as well though. There are a lot of ignorant people in the county, but I feel that if the election was decided by popular vote it would encourage people to become more informed on the issues and the candidates. The mind set of vote for your party and fuck the issues is a problem, as I know a good number of people vote this way. The only way to rectify it is to raise the intellect of the voters and to give them a vote that really matters.

Thats just my thoughts, not that they hold any bearing in the scheme of things.


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