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Improving the medal system!

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Shantom
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Improving the medal system! 2012-10-28 16:20:04 Reply

Hey guys :o

I wanted to start this topic for some time now, but I've been kinda busy.

And tbh, I wasn't sure if the staff already have plans for the medal system, or anything I say here would make any difference, which is why I delayed this even more.

But I'm sure it will make a difference, right? :P

You know, I'm making this topic because I really care about Newgrounds. It's been one of my favorite websites for more than 7 years now. I didn't make my account early though. Playing games with medals, was one of the reasons I made This account.

Anyway, let's get started.

The reasons behind medals and achievements in general:
I wanted to start with this to make my points more clear (you can skip this if you want.)

In my opinion, the reasons behind medals/achievements are:

1- To make the game more interesting. Without them, there is nothing else keeping you playing.

2- To show off and brag about your medals to everyone. Especially to the people with lower points.

3- To challenge you. This is actually my favorite reason for getting medals. I like to challenge myself. Can you beat the game without dying? can you beat the stage without killing anything? It tests my limits. The difficulty shouldn't be impossible though.

4- To compete with other members. Kinda different from showing off and bragging. In this case, you would be competing with members with the same or higher points rather than lower points.

5- To give you a sense of achievement/accomplishment. You know the feeling when you get all achievements and feel satisfied ? You feel like you achieved/accomplished something. I don't know how to explain it but I guess if you get ALL medals in this game, and take a look at the medals, you will understand what I mean. :P

Well, keeping these reasons in mind, I have few suggestions to the medal system and medal games.

1- Ranking system for medal points users.

I think it would be nice if there is a ranking system for medal point users in NG. A system that tracks ALL users.

Well, there is a list made by H-O-S, and it's a very good list. Also, everyone appreciate his work. I would also thank DiMono for making the list possible. But the thing is, it doesn't cover all members in NG. In other words, it's not perfect.

The good thing about it is that it doesn't have hackers. Hackers can be easily kicked from a list made by members. While a ranking system would cover everyone, and kicking a hacker wouldn't be as easy, but it can be managed. The point is, we can still have a ranking system with no hackers.

Also, it would be nice if the top ten get added to the front page with their total medal points. It would give them more attention and it will attract more gamers to compete with them. This will also give the top ten some sense of achievement for getting all these medals.

Many members don't collect medals because they don't see any ranking system. They don't know who has the most points and how much points he has. Adding the top ten to the front page would definitely attract more gamers.

2- Medal tracking system.

A medal tracking system would be awesome. What I mean is, a system that tracks the users who got any medal. You can click on any medal and see who else got that medal.

Whenever I get a tough medal, I wonder "who else got this medal?" Sometimes I really want to know who got this tough medal beside me and there is no way to find out (other than clicking on every user and checking their list.)

Well, since my idea is to track the users who got a tough medal, I would suggest using this idea for 50 points & 100 points medals only. After all, there is no reason to track every medal in NG (although it would be interesting if it's possible, but it's not necessary to track 5 pts medals. I don't care who got 5 pts medals. )

3- A search bar for the user's medal list.

I know this list used to be in 1 page, which used to be a laggy page, but now the list goes through many pages, which is nice?

Well, it was nice until I got like 70+ pages of games with medals. Then it became a pain to search for anything. Especially when some of these games are not really sorted alphabetically. I think the reason for some of these games to not be sorted is that they got their names changed, and the system still tracks the old name instead of the new one.

It's kinda annoying to not find the game you are looking for because it's not sorted correctly. Also, it's not fun searching through pages just to check one game.

That's why I'm suggesting a search bar for the user's medal list. This search bar is not only for that user, but it's for anyone who enters that list. Sometimes I want to know how many medals did that user get for a certain game, but searching for that game is so annoying that I usually quit before I find it. I think a small search bar would solve this problem.

4- Games with medals list.

First, I think the games that got removed should also be removed from this list. They are just increasing the pages for no reason. There are also games with 100% broken medals, but I guess it's not easy to track these.

Anyway..

Every now and then, a game gets updates either for more medals or to fix broken medals. I would suggest adding a mark or the word [NEW] or [UPDATED] under these updated games. So that we know it got more medals or they got fixed. I would also suggest these updated games to be moved to the top of the list. I mean the reason why that list is sorted by date is to know the last medal games added and to get the newest medals. Wouldn't these updated games have the newest medals? Even if these medals were broken and got fixed they would still be the newest medals obtainable.

It would be really nice if these updated games get more attention.

Shantom
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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-10-28 16:22:10 Reply

5- Rules for secret medals.

I hate secret medals!

Why? well, many secret medals these days are hard to predict and impossible to guess. You can't expect me to beat every game without getting hit or dying just to see if that's the secret medal or not. That's why I made my life easier by using "Inspect element" in Chrome to read their names and sometimes see their pictures to get a hint of what they are.

I wouldn't have to use this trick if there were some rules for them. Here is what I suggest:

1- They should be easy to predict. That depends on the game.

2- The author should give us a hint on what are the secret medals if they are hard to predict.

3- The author can lead us to the medal automatically. It's a secret medal because he doesn't want us to know what it is, but we will get the medal automatically. For example, there is a medal for a weapon upgrade and the author doesn't want you to know what is that weapon until you get it, so, he keeps it a secret.

4- They shouldn't be used a lot. Some games have tons of secret medals that can't be predicted. You can't expect me to try everything to get every medal if they are impossible to guess.

5- They can be secret medals if they are actually visible in the game (game's achievement list.)

I would suggest, no secret medals should be added if they are not following these rules or if you have some different rules?

If these medals don't follow certain rules, I will just read their names like I always do..

6- Visible points for secret medals.

We used to know how much these secret medals worth. Now, we have no idea how much each medal is worth unless you just got it or do the math in your list.

Is it possible to have visible points for secret medals again?

I would like to know how much these medals are worth. Adding points would also help me predict whether the medal is tough or easy.

I hope you consider this.

7- Broken medals.

You know, there are many broken medals out there. It would be really nice if these medals get removed if they don't get fixed within a certain time. Sometimes I work really hard for a medal and it ends up being broken. That's really disappointing..

Sometimes they're not broken, they just.. don't send.. (that's a different story though)

8- No medals for games with a rating of less than 3 stars?

From what I remember, every medal game used to be good.

Now there are medals for games that are boring, buggy, or unplayable.

I think medals should be removed for games with a low rating. This suggestion is for games with a rating of less than 3 stars (or maybe less than 2.5 stars?)

Anyway, a game with 1 star shouldn't have any medals.

9- Other suggestions by users.

I'm sure if you ask the medal users here in NG they would have their own suggestions. When I mentioned this topic to some users, they gave me more ideas. Here are 2 of these ideas:

Nijsse:

"It would be so great to have something like 'medal moderators'. This way, everyone can add medals to their games, but broken medals could be removed really fast, and horrible authors could receive an API ban until they have the skills to make a decent game. "

This is a great suggestion!

TheRed555:

"The medal points should be in user-Stats,And there should be Rankings and Badges (Like Blam-Protect ranks) on medals points"

I really like this idea. It would be awesome!

Well, sorry for this long topic. I finally had the time to write it ^^

Knuckstrike
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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-10-28 16:44:17 Reply

At 10/28/12 04:20 PM, Shantom wrote: Hey guys :o
In my opinion, the reasons behind medals/achievements are:

1- To make the game more interesting. Without them, there is nothing else keeping you playing.

I do like this part as well, but I don't like that this part makes spammy submissions get lots of views because there's a medal in it. Pretty obvious, but there's not much you can do against it.

2- To show off and brag about your medals to everyone. Especially to the people with lower points.

This is really funny :D

4- To compete with other members. Kinda different from showing off and bragging. In this case, you would be competing with members with the same or higher points rather than lower points.

This part kind of gets nullified by not being able to easily see if a user has a certain medal. But more on that later.

1- Ranking system for medal points users.

I think it would be nice if there is a ranking system for medal point users in NG. A system that tracks ALL users.

Well, there is a list made by H-O-S, and it's a very good list. Also, everyone appreciate his work. I would also thank DiMono for making the list possible. But the thing is, it doesn't cover all members in NG. In other words, it's not perfect.

This is the main reason why I like the thread list less than I would like an official list. It's not as rewarding to be in the top 50 (or top 10) if you're not sure that everyone is on the list.

The good thing about it is that it doesn't have hackers.

I don't think that, without amazing evidence, the staff would ban people. Just like they won't "ban" people from the b/p lists if they don't care about anything else than the points. The staff should, IMO, keep a more witheld view than to ban people of who they think are hackers.

Also, it would be nice if the top ten get added to the front page with their total medal points. It would give them more attention and it will attract more gamers to compete with them. This will also give the top ten some sense of achievement for getting all these medals.

I don't like this idea. Even though it would be awesome to see my name on the front page, I don't think this is as important as the people who b/p or review every day. I think their addition to the site is more important than mine.
It could fit though, but not constantly. Maybe once every month for a few hours?
Or, another idea, make a "medal of the month", and give the latest three people who got it a place at the bottom of the front page. It would give the people who get them more of a sense of accomplishment, and increase the views on the medal games that were picked by the staff.

Many members don't collect medals because they don't see any ranking system. They don't know who has the most points and how much points he has. Adding the top ten to the front page would definitely attract more gamers.

I hadn't thought about this before, but you make a very valid point here. I can imagine that the site would get visited more if people see a challenge in the games here.

2- Medal tracking system.

A medal tracking system would be awesome. What I mean is, a system that tracks the users who got any medal. You can click on any medal and see who else got that medal.

Whenever I get a tough medal, I wonder "who else got this medal?" Sometimes I really want to know who got this tough medal beside me and there is no way to find out (other than clicking on every user and checking their list.)

All of my yes to this. It would be awesome to see. Maybe this could be limited to only one or two medals per game though, or that the staff would have to agree with a medal having this property. Imagine a list with everyone who got a 50-point medal in Miami shark! (10,000,000+ views)

3- A search bar for the user's medal list.

Another option for this, and the previous one, is that you would click on a medal, and that you would be able to input the username of someone to see if he/she has that medal. That'd save a lot of time with searching through lists and stuff.

4- Games with medals list.

First, I think the games that got removed should also be removed from this list. They are just increasing the pages for no reason.

This is pretty hard I think, seeing as that list updates automatic. But it might be a challenge for a staff member. I'm sure I wouldn't be able to do it with my 2 years of javascript and html programming :P

There are also games with 100% broken medals, but I guess it's not easy to track these.

Yeah

Every now and then, a game gets updates either for more medals or to fix broken medals. I would suggest adding a mark or the word [NEW] or [UPDATED] under these updated games. So that we know it got more medals or they got fixed. I would also suggest these updated games to be moved to the top of the list. I mean the reason why that list is sorted by date is to know the last medal games added and to get the newest medals. Wouldn't these updated games have the newest medals? Even if these medals were broken and got fixed they would still be the newest medals obtainable.

This would be really nice, but the only problem with this is that a spammy submission could update/delete one of its medals every day to get to the top of the list again. If that wouldn't be possible, like when you or a staff member could come up with a solution to that, I think it's an amazing idea.

/2 cents

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Knuckstrike
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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-10-28 17:08:10 Reply

Oh, oops, another page...

At 10/28/12 04:22 PM, Shantom wrote: 5- Rules for secret medals.

I hate secret medals!

I love secret medals!

Why? well, many secret medals these days are hard to predict and impossible to guess.
You can't expect me to beat every game without getting hit or dying just to see if that's the secret medal or not. That's why I made my life easier by using "Inspect element" in Chrome to read their names and sometimes see their pictures to get a hint of what they are.

This is what I love about secret medals. It makes you discover the entire game, instead of grinding stuff or getting frustrated until you reach the end. It gives authors more freedom and, maybe the most important reason of all, gives the author the chance to NOT say what's going to happen at the end. If you're skimming through the medals, it would suck if you accidentally read: hit the final boss in its giant eye. Then you already know what the final boss' weak point is.
Though in this case it would be fairly obvious, stripping the author of that chance is not the best idea.

Also, if you go a bit deeper into the javascript you can even read more... But I only use that when I'm really frustrated.

1- They should be easy to predict. That depends on the game.

If they would be really easy to predict you might as well not make them secret. ;)

4- They shouldn't be used a lot. Some games have tons of secret medals that can't be predicted. You can't expect me to try everything to get every medal if they are impossible to guess.

Why not? It may appear boring, but often I find that more enjoyable than playing a lot of platform levels in a row.

5- They can be secret medals if they are actually visible in the game (game's achievement list.)

Why would they be secret then?

6- Visible points for secret medals.

We used to know how much these secret medals worth. Now, we have no idea how much each medal is worth unless you just got it or do the math in your list.

YESYESYES. This is something I really agree with. You can often make a guess by the place the secret medal is in the list though.

7- Broken medals.

You know, there are many broken medals out there. It would be really nice if these medals get removed if they don't get fixed within a certain time. Sometimes I work really hard for a medal and it ends up being broken. That's really disappointing..

Sometimes they're not broken, they just.. don't send.. (that's a different story though)

A report button for broken medals would be awesome.

8- No medals for games with a rating of less than 3 stars?

That would make lastman have no medals as well... Ragequitters would make hard games have no medals. Plus, this will create confusion if a game gets voted under 3.0. Then suddenly there would be many medal points missing, and it would be a huge pain to figure out what game got its medals removed because of someone who voted 0 on it every day a few weeks in a row.

Anyway, a game with 1 star shouldn't have any medals.

Then it wouldn't pass judgment. For that one game per month that just managed to pass judgment I think it would be easier to manually remove the medals.

9- Other suggestions by users.

I'm sure if you ask the medal users here in NG they would have their own suggestions. When I mentioned this topic to some users, they gave me more ideas. Here are 2 of these ideas:

Nijsse:

"It would be so great to have something like 'medal moderators'. This way, everyone can add medals to their games, but broken medals could be removed really fast, and horrible authors could receive an API ban until they have the skills to make a decent game. "

Awesome on first sight, but the opinions on medal games differ immensely. I remember that half of the medal community loved all those medals from the learn to draw games, and the other half (me included) hated it and thought it was a cheap way to get more attention. Which of the two sides is right?

TheRed555:

"The medal points should be in user-Stats

This is already the case...

And there should be Rankings and Badges (Like Blam-Protect ranks) on medals points"

I'd love this!

Well, sorry for this long topic. I finally had the time to write it ^^

Thanks for writing it! It has some awesome ideas. (And some bad ones :D)


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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-10-28 18:13:07 Reply

At 10/28/12 05:08 PM, Knuckstrike wrote:
"It would be so great to have something like 'medal moderators'. This way, everyone can add medals to their games, but broken medals could be removed really fast, and horrible authors could receive an API ban until they have the skills to make a decent game. "
Awesome on first sight, but the opinions on medal games differ immensely. I remember that half of the medal community loved all those medals from the learn to draw games, and the other half (me included) hated it and thought it was a cheap way to get more attention. Which of the two sides is right?

That's not the point. We know exactly how the medal system works and since we spend so much time playing them it's really easy to identify broken medals or games that shouldn't have medals in the first place. Yeah, the draw games were a difficult case, but it's not about picking a side, it's about offering information to the right people. You can't expect admins to play games all day to figure out if every medal works or do a bit of quality control. Because of this, lots of games have broken medals and nothing gets done about it. We have and can offer this information to admins. I don't know how things work at competitive sites, but it just feels kinda weird to never know for sure if medals will actually unlock.

A report button for broken medals would be awesome.

No, too many people would report when they have local issues. Just a small group who are in contact with people that can do something about the broken medals seems more than enough.

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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-10-28 18:13:43 Reply

At 10/28/12 04:44 PM, Knuckstrike wrote:
At 10/28/12 04:20 PM, Shantom wrote: Also, it would be nice if the top ten get added to the front page with their total medal points. It would give them more attention and it will attract more gamers to compete with them. This will also give the top ten some sense of achievement for getting all these medals.
I don't like this idea. Even though it would be awesome to see my name on the front page, I don't think this is as important as the people who b/p or review every day. I think their addition to the site is more important than mine.

I guess you are right, but you know there is a big space at the bottom of the front page. Many lists can be added.
Actually, why not make a list with multiple tabs of top tens. I think it would be a great idea.

Or, another idea, make a "medal of the month", and give the latest three people who got it a place at the bottom of the front page. It would give the people who get them more of a sense of accomplishment, and increase the views on the medal games that were picked by the staff.

I think you have some nice idea there. With some improvements, it would be great.


2- Medal tracking system.
All of my yes to this. It would be awesome to see. Maybe this could be limited to only one or two medals per game though, or that the staff would have to agree with a medal having this property. Imagine a list with everyone who got a 50-point medal in Miami shark! (10,000,000+ views)

lool! ok I guess it can be limited to 100 pts medals :P
Actually, why not add a new type of medals? 1 per game, a clickable golden medal or something.
Dunno.. just saying :o

3- A search bar for the user's medal list.
Another option for this, and the previous one, is that you would click on a medal, and that you would be able to input the username of someone to see if he/she has that medal. That'd save a lot of time with searching through lists and stuff.

That's not bad! It might work :P

the only problem with this is that a spammy submission could update/delete one of its medals every day to get to the top of the list again. If that wouldn't be possible, like when you or a staff member could come up with a solution to that, I think it's an amazing idea.

I kinda forgot about spammers when I wrote this idea. I think it can be managed though. We really want to know what medals got added and fixed.

5- They can be secret medals if they are actually visible in the game (game's achievement list.)
Why would they be secret then?

lol! well, this is one of the games I had in mind when I thought of this. The author didn't want to spoil all medals at the same time, so, he kept most the medals secret.

A report button for broken medals would be awesome.

That would be really awesome o,0;

Thanks for writing it! It has some awesome ideas. (And some bad ones :D)

Thanks for reading it :P

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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-10-28 19:08:41 Reply

At 10/28/12 04:20 PM, Shantom wrote: In my opinion, the reasons behind medals/achievements are:

1- To make the game more interesting. Without them, there is nothing else keeping you playing.

For the majority of flash games, this would be true. However, sometimes you find a game that you just keep coming back to and keep on playing because they are genuinely fun. Isn't that partly why we play games?

3- To challenge you.

Eheh, I'm a sucker for a good challenge xD

Well, keeping these reasons in mind, I have few suggestions to the medal system and medal games.

1- Ranking system for medal points users.

...hackers. Hackers can be easily kicked from a list made by members. While a ranking system would cover everyone, and kicking a hacker wouldn't be as easy, but it can be managed. The point is, we can still have a ranking system with no hackers.

You have no idea how difficult it is to catch and root out hackers that are smart. Nijsse and I have talked with each other a couple of times about who is a hacker, and I appreciate his enthusiasm for the medal system (and his hunches are good). However, and I do apologize about this, I prefer objectivity and solid evidence. Given how the medal system has reacted, and that registered users can play any game from anywhere using any computer, with or without internet (internet outages happen), it gets extremely difficult to determine whether he got the medals by hacking or was an unfortunate victim of tech malfunction and circumstance.

In addition, Flash is very hackable, and in fact there are dedicated hacking engines out there. Security and encryption is expensive, and since Newgrounds is a website that accepts content from everyone that isn't banned from doing so, you're going to expect unsecure games.

Even I have done something I'm not particularly proud of, even though it seems legal and generally accepted. That something is "play the game on my crappy, slow-as-hell laptop". I did this with Hippolyta, a game of reaction, since I'm generally poor with reaction times and my consistency in performance isn't that great. Even more of a concern is save swapping. Anyone that's been around when I joined the medal scene knows that I discovered and presented a controversial method of getting the "Ultimate Warlord" medal from Warlords 2: Rise of Demons. IIRC, it caused someone to quit getting medals, even though I never benefited my main account with this exploit.

2- Medal tracking system.
3- A search bar for the user's medal list.

Do want!

I know this list used to be in 1 page, which used to be a laggy page, but now the list goes through many pages, which is nice?

It also caused a lot of unnecessary load on the servers. A search function would be nice though.

4- Games with medals list.

Every now and then, a game gets updates either for more medals or to fix broken medals. I would suggest adding a mark or the word [NEW] or [UPDATED] under these updated games.

It's a nice suggestion, but it is prone to abuse by some unsavory characters. A medal mod easily solves this problem.

5- Rules for secret medals.

I hate secret medals!

I'm sure they hate you too.

But seriously, I liked it before the medal system got an overhaul. If you were super frustrated by a secret medal, you could just look it up on someone else's profile to figure it out. Sometimes it's fun to challenge the community to discover the easter egg. The best examples I can think of are ugolegend94's "Sailor Moon" medal (from Pico's Musical Experience) and Snailiad in general.

6- Visible points for secret medals.

Is it possible to have visible points for secret medals again?

Yes please! The way it works right now it pretty silly.

From what I remember, every medal game used to be good.

This. My enthusiasm for medals dropped drastically since the medal system update. Now it is buried beneath dozens of other passions I have (including developing my first serious game).

I don't mind allowing game jam games to have medals. And if a game is particularly unique, I suppose it can have its medals too. But please, no shytty, poorly designed games like BanglaBoy's.

Nijsse:

"It would be so great to have something like 'medal moderators'. This way, everyone can add medals to their games, but broken medals could be removed really fast, and horrible authors could receive an API ban until they have the skills to make a decent game. "

This is a great suggestion!

This is a double-edged sword. Realistically, in order for medal mods to do their job properly, they effectively can't participate in medal rankings anymore, since they would have insight that would give them an advantage that isn't available to non-mods. Sure, we can still have funzies, but they'd have an asterisk next to their name wherever they go. Not saying such a person doesn't exist, but who would take up this burden?

.
An additional deal I believe should happen is that medals can only be made available to the public if you or a tester has unlocked it in your test project. Since flash projects (private) and submissions (public) can be edited, this isn't a perfect system. I think it might work this way now, but I'm not sure, since I haven't went through with the whole system myself. But ... fuck you people who add a single fucking button that unlocks all your broken fucking medals. You're not real game makers! Yes I very mad.


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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-10-28 22:26:42 Reply

At 10/28/12 04:22 PM, Shantom wrote: 6- Visible points for secret medals.

All of my support goes to this.
It would especially help me out when I'm adding up the weekly amount of points. While I could go to someone's page and see the total point value a game has to offer, it doesn't help that it takes longer than just looking a game, AND sometimes the alphabetical order the game is supposed to be in is out of place.


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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-10-28 23:19:04 Reply

First off, thanks Shantom for letting me know about this via PM. I'm not sure how helpful I'll be, as I think I've lost the drive to obtain medals. I used to really like it, but some unfortunate circumstances happened within the last few weeks where I've pretty much only been playing games to get my mind off of things. It's been kinda rough going, and I've tried to maintain the air of nothing is wrong and continuing to "go for the gold" so to speak, but these past 2 weeks, the quest for medals has really become the least important thing in my life. I think I've come to the conclusion that I'm just gonna be playing for fun for right now, rather than bragging rights.

But enough of my problems. I just hope I can add something constructive here that will help out other medal seekers .

I do like the idea of being able to see the value of secret medals, and actually liked the way they were set up before, with a tiny picture and hint as to how to obtain them as opposed to the question marks. I'm not opposed to secrets, but when they're so obscure, it becomes frustrating to figure it out and hope somebody else has them and are willing to part with the knowledge on how to get them.

Also, I really like the idea of getting rid of games on the medals page that either don't work, or have been removed. There are a bunch of 'em on there at the moment, and it's a pain when you see a game that's new and its been removed by the author, or the moderation team.

I do also think that there are too many games that don't deserve to have medals attached to them, and some kind of quality control should be in place to decide if a game is worthy enough to have medals. This wouldn't be so much by the number of stars it has (after all, folks can down vote something out of spite), but rather, if effort went into creating it, then by all means, they should have medals. But there are some that are either unplayable, or put together in 2 minutes, that really bring down the medal system. I feel medals should enhance a game, not be a reason to play (or in the case of a bad game, suffer through) it.

Anywho, that's my two cents. Take it for what you will knowing my intentions toward medal earning, but hope it helps point those in the right direction who read, and will eventually decide what actions to take to make the medal system the best it can be. :)

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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-10-29 02:50:49 Reply

Hey guys,

Nijsse:

::

"It would be so great to have something like 'medal moderators'. This way, everyone can add medals to their games, but : broken medals could be removed really fast, and horrible authors could receive an API ban until they have the skills to make : a decent game. "

Really good suggestion,But we don't want broken medals to be removed,We want these to be fixed

I had another idea a few months ago,About developping a search system in the medals section of the games,And search for a user to see his/her medals in that game,I Made an illustration (Example)

Improving the medal system!


     

Shantom
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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-10-29 05:22:06 Reply

Ok, I just woke up o,0;
Thanks for the support everyone ^^

At 10/28/12 06:13 PM, Nijsse wrote:
At 10/28/12 05:08 PM, Knuckstrike wrote: A report button for broken medals would be awesome.
No, too many people would report when they have local issues. Just a small group who are in contact with people that can do something about the broken medals seems more than enough.

There can be some kind of statistics for each medal. Like The number of people who got it, and the number of people who reported it as broken. I think this idea can be managed.

At 10/28/12 07:08 PM, Fooliolo wrote:
At 10/28/12 04:20 PM, Shantom wrote:
Even I have done something I'm not particularly proud of, even though it seems legal and generally accepted.

lol! I did that too :P
But I guess you are right, it's not that easy to track hackers.
Sometimes you can see a ridiculous score in the score list though. I guess we can assume he's a hacker?
Well, we won't know until we see all users in a ranking system or something (if that's gonna happen).

This. My enthusiasm for medals dropped drastically since the medal system update. Now it is buried beneath dozens of other passions I have (including developing my first serious game).

I would like to play games developed by one of the top list :P
He would know how to use medals in a good, challenging way. (even if the game sucks lol)

This is a double-edged sword. Realistically, in order for medal mods to do their job properly, they effectively can't participate in medal rankings anymore, since they would have insight that would give them an advantage that isn't available to non-mods.

I think they can still be in medal rankings. It's true they can do things other users can't, but I don't think getting a medal is one of these things :P
Mods can track broken medals (by seeing statistics for example. how many people got it and how many people reported it as broken) and be able to remove them.

An additional deal I believe should happen is that medals can only be made available to the public if you or a tester has unlocked it in your test project.

I agree with the idea of testing medals before making them public. It would save us a lot of time.

At 10/28/12 10:26 PM, Hybrid-Of-Souls wrote:
At 10/28/12 04:22 PM, Shantom wrote: 6- Visible points for secret medals.
All of my support goes to this.

I guess everyone is supporting this idea so far :P

At 10/28/12 11:19 PM, SFS1313 wrote:

Sorry to hear that! :/
"Life ---> games"
I always keep this in mind (which is why I quit playing MMOs and online games.)

I feel medals should enhance a game, not be a reason to play (or in the case of a bad game, suffer through) it.

You make a good point here lol!

At 10/29/12 02:50 AM, TheRed555 wrote:
Really good suggestion,But we don't want broken medals to be removed,We want these to be fixed

If the author won't fix it, they should be removed.
Almost every list I check, I see the medal "To Be A Bird" broken in *Flight*

I had another idea a few months ago,About developping a search system in the medals section of the games,And search for a user to see his/her medals in that game,I Made an illustration (Example)

That's really nice o,o
It doesn't look bad either.
You just have to switch the view from your medals to other users' medals. Not bad!

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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-10-29 13:58:30 Reply

At 10/29/12 05:22 AM, Shantom wrote: I would like to play games developed by one of the top list :P
He would know how to use medals in a good, challenging way. (even if the game sucks lol)

Umm... playing games is one thing. Making games is another =P But at least I've played plenty of games to have a good idea of what is good and what isn't.

This is a double-edged sword. Realistically, in order for medal mods to do their job properly, they effectively can't participate in medal rankings anymore, since they would have insight that would give them an advantage that isn't available to non-mods.
I think they can still be in medal rankings. It's true they can do things other users can't, but I don't think getting a medal is one of these things :P
Mods can track broken medals (by seeing statistics for example. how many people got it and how many people reported it as broken) and be able to remove them.

Maybe you're thinking of different specifics that medal mods follow. But from my point of view, what if you're trying to contact some up-tight author about broken medals in his flash submission? He's more likely to heed the words of the medal mod and go "oh and here's a cheat code to help you test it". Yes, that really happened to me (except I'm no mod).

But the most extreme case would be to verify that secret medals are obtainable (even if ludicrously obscure). They'd have to know what it is and how to get it. That is clearly an advantage they would have over the regular users.

I'm tired :<

Medal Games in a Nutshell: a general overview of how to earn NG medals!

Shantom
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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-10-29 16:55:12 Reply

At 10/29/12 01:58 PM, Fooliolo wrote: He's more likely to heed the words of the medal mod and go "oh and here's a cheat code to help you test it". Yes, that really happened to me (except I'm no mod).

I guess that might happen. I see your point :P
But since it happened to you, it may happen to anyone (even if he's not a mod.)

But the most extreme case would be to verify that secret medals are obtainable (even if ludicrously obscure). They'd have to know what it is and how to get it. That is clearly an advantage they would have over the regular users.

Stupid secret medals..
I guess people in the forums can confirm this one. Assuming they having the same problem too.

I'm tired :<
me 2 :x
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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-11-02 11:00:04 Reply

Thanks for making this post, it sums up a lot of great improvements. I'll address each one:

#1: Rankings List.
This is 100% intended, I hope we do get this done.

#2: List of Users who got each medal + Front Page Feature.
This is also 100% intended and I hope we get this done too.

#3: Medal Search Bar.
This is a good idea but I'll say it probably won't get on a priority list any time soon.

#4: Games with No Medals still on Games with Medals List.
This is a bug that we do need to fix.

#5: Rules for Secret Medals.
There are good suggestions in here but enforcement is pretty unlikely. We should still include these as a guide though.

#6: Show Points for Secret Medals.
Didn't even realize this, should also be considered a bug that needs to be fixed.

#7: Broken Medals.
We do intend to remove broken medals and totally intend to have moderators remove broken medals as well.

#8: No Medals under 3 stars.
The tough thing here is sometimes there are gems out there that deserve to have the medals... We could consider just zeroing out the value of the medals and not listing them in the Games with Medals page, so they wouldn't count towards your points but you could still earn them for bragging rights among people who play that game.

#9: Mods / Badges
As said above we do intend to have mods help out. Badges would also be cool.

I'll see what we can do about some of the more pressing items on this list!


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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-11-02 11:01:36 Reply

Another note, not sure if anyone has suggested this... I also hope that if you can click a medal to see the users who earned it, we have a special highlight section for the first 3-4 non-project members who earned the medal. :)


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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-11-02 11:07:10 Reply

At 11/2/12 11:01 AM, TomFulp wrote: Another note, not sure if anyone has suggested this... I also hope that if you can click a medal to see the users who earned it, we have a special highlight section for the first 3-4 non-project members who earned the medal. :)

That'd be awesome. I do think that it would be better if you wouldn't do this with each medal, but with the first few people who got every medal. If you do it with each medal people like me who hardly b/p wouldn't ever get on one of those lists, and the people who do b/p but don't care about challenges as much would get their name on 90% of those lists. Certainly with a lot of those easy medals.

Thanks for considering and maybe implementing stuff like this Tom.


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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-11-03 03:22:38 Reply

At 11/2/12 11:00 AM, TomFulp wrote:

Thank you for reading and considering some of these ideas. I really appreciate it ^^
I just hope that you guys (the staff) read other suggestion and feedback before implementing anything.
I mean, I posted this topic here to get more/better suggestions than mine (I'm one guy after all, I can't have perfect ideas.)
I just tried to include everything related to the medal system. And I hope I did a good job on that :)

#3: Medal Search Bar.
This is a good idea but I'll say it probably won't get on a priority list any time soon.

Sorry if I wasn't that clear. This search bar is not for medals, it's for the games with medals in each user's list.
Example, I want you to see how many medals I got for Bunker Defense. Here is my list.
You may quit before you actually find it :P

#8: No Medals under 3 stars.
The tough thing here is sometimes there are gems out there that deserve to have the medals... We could consider just zeroing out the value of the medals and not listing them in the Games with Medals page, so they wouldn't count towards your points but you could still earn them for bragging rights among people who play that game.

True, there are some nice games that deserve medals, but there are some bad games that don't deserve them.
I'm not a fan of zero pts medals :P
But it's could work I guess.

I'll see what we can do about some of the more pressing items on this list!

Thanks! :)

Also, I would like to thank everyone who read, supported, commented, or suggested something in this topic. You guys made this possible :D

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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-11-03 03:36:54 Reply

ops, I forgot to mention something.
There is a temporary solution for the user's list.
Instead of having 10 games per page, we should have 20~30 games per page. This way, instead of me having 100+ pages, I will have 50 pages or less. Much better :o

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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-11-03 21:23:21 Reply

At 11/3/12 03:36 AM, Shantom wrote: ops, I forgot to mention something.
There is a temporary solution for the user's list.
Instead of having 10 games per page, we should have 20~30 games per page. This way, instead of me having 100+ pages, I will have 50 pages or less. Much better :o

Yep. If an automated list or revealing of secret medal points feature aren't coming out at the same time, then I'd also give support to this, for it's another thing that definitely helps me out when I'm looking over medal points.


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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-11-04 08:08:02 Reply

So as a person who has quite a few medals in their game (Second Wind) I wanna weigh in my two cents:

First off, I think Secret Medals need to be changed - I would personally love a seperate hint system for them, so that there's SOME kind of text that a game dev could use to point people in the right direction

Second off, this is just a quip - can we please have the ability to organize the medal listings in the chart WITHOUT having to make them alphabetical? I just like to keep my class medals, area medals, and miscellenius medals seperate without having to name them in ABC format :/

Third off, I think Medal rankings would be a cool idea - personally, I need a way to check if people are getting medals.

And uh, this is unrelated, but I really want more moderation for high score pages - some people tend to overdo things and get absurdly high scores, and if I were to change something (like add a level cap) I can't invalidate that 5 million+ score. So a "delete score" button would be great.


Good.

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Response to Improving the medal system! 2012-11-04 12:22:56 Reply

At 11/3/12 09:23 PM, Hybrid-Of-Souls wrote:
At 11/3/12 03:36 AM, Shantom wrote: Instead of having 10 games per page, we should have 20~30 games per page. This way, instead of me having 100+ pages, I will have 50 pages or less. Much better :o
Yep. If an automated list or revealing of secret medal points feature aren't coming out at the same time, then I'd also give support to this, for it's another thing that definitely helps me out when I'm looking over medal points.

Thanks for the support :)

At 11/4/12 08:08 AM, squidly wrote: First off, I think Secret Medals need to be changed - I would personally love a seperate hint system for them, so that there's SOME kind of text that a game dev could use to point people in the right direction

That could be interesting :o
So, instead of "Unlock this medal to view its details" the author has an option to include a hint if he wants (or keep it as it is).
We can follow these hints to get these medals. I like this idea :o

Second off, this is just a quip - can we please have the ability to organize the medal listings in the chart WITHOUT having to make them alphabetical? I just like to keep my class medals, area medals, and miscellenius medals seperate without having to name them in ABC format :/

I gotta say, I've been collecting medals for some time now, I didn't realize they are organized alphabetically :P
Organization can be important if there are a lot of medals in one game

And uh, this is unrelated, but I really want more moderation for high score pages - some people tend to overdo things and get absurdly high scores, and if I were to change something (like add a level cap) I can't invalidate that 5 million+ score. So a "delete score" button would be great.

I don't think a "delete score" button would work. Authors will delete whoever they want, and that will ruin the score list.

I would like to mention that I will post a link to this topic in my news posts. If anyone has anything else to add, he can find it there.
Also, if the staff are going to use this topic when updating the medal system, then more/better ideas/suggestions are welcome.

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Response to Improving the medal system! 2013-01-09 17:13:50 Reply

At 11/3/12 03:36 AM, Shantom wrote:
At 11/4/12 08:08 AM, squidly wrote: And uh, this is unrelated, but I really want more moderation for high score pages - some people tend to overdo things and get absurdly high scores, and if I were to change something (like add a level cap) I can't invalidate that 5 million+ score. So a "delete score" button would be great.
I don't think a "delete score" button would work. Authors will delete whoever they want, and that will ruin the score list.

I want to add something. It's a small comment, so nothing like 90% of the posts here.
Incredibly high highscores are currently the best thing we have to determine whether or not someone is a hacker/cheater as medals often don't send and you can't see what order the medals were obtained in if they do not belong to your last eight medals gained. If the author could delete high scores before a possible future medal moderator or NG admin sees the score, that's one more person who can get away with it.
I think it would indeed be better if only moderators who probably have a lists of hacker suspects could delete such scores.

Also, wow, this thread hasn't been posted in for quite a while.


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Response to Improving the medal system! 2013-01-10 11:27:36 Reply

At 1/9/13 05:13 PM, Knuckstrike wrote: Also, wow, this thread hasn't been posted in for quite a while.

But it's not dead yet!
I'm still keeping this in my news post. I also told Tom about it recently and he said that they will work on it when they implement the passport system.

There are some amazing ideas in this topic. They shouldn't be ignored ._.

Btw, I don't like the idea of 'Adult' games getting medals. Like this game (it was released few days ago.)

Medal games should be for everyone. Not adults only. I know there was an adult SF movie that got medals but that was the only one (I think?)

If medals are allowed for adult games like this one, we will start seeing more porn movies/games getting medals.
It doesn't sound interesting...
Or what do you think?

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Response to Improving the medal system! 2013-01-10 14:21:24 Reply

At 1/10/13 11:27 AM, Shantom wrote:
At 1/9/13 05:13 PM, Knuckstrike wrote: Also, wow, this thread hasn't been posted in for quite a while.
But it's not dead yet!
I'm still keeping this in my news post. I also told Tom about it recently and he said that they will work on it when they implement the passport system.

There are some amazing ideas in this topic. They shouldn't be ignored ._.

Btw, I don't like the idea of 'Adult' games getting medals. Like this game (it was released few days ago.)

Medal games should be for everyone. Not adults only. I know there was an adult SF movie that got medals but that was the only one (I think?)

If medals are allowed for adult games like this one, we will start seeing more porn movies/games getting medals.
It doesn't sound interesting...
Or what do you think?

I do usually refrain from getting medals like those until my parents can't see me, but I don't think they should be removed entirely from adult games. It's a tough thing to judge about, as on the one hand you don't want to lure people who want to get medals to adult games (and with people I mean people under 18), and on the other hand adult games have been high quality games without a lot of spammy medals. Also, the majority of people here are old enough to endure a few seconds of sex scenes.


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Response to Improving the medal system! 2013-01-13 05:35:16 Reply

Medal games should be for everyone. Not adults only. I know there was an adult SF movie that got medals but that was the only one (I think?)

If medals are allowed for adult games like this one, we will start seeing more porn movies/games getting medals.
It doesn't sound interesting...
Or what do you think?

I Agree with you,Because these games are not suitable for everyone,And the medals would attract more people to play adult games.
Some easy 100 Pts medals should be revalued(Not more than 10pts) example :This game and this one : For clicking 9 times you get 900 Points!That's not fair.
Also,Some impossible medals should be removed example :In this game The last medal "Make The Impossible Possible" is really impossible,What do you think?


     

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Response to Improving the medal system! 2013-01-14 04:46:54 Reply

One last thing: Sometimes there are in game achievements but no NG medals,I thought it would be nice to add medals to these games.Example in this game (Mutate the Labrat 2)


     

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Response to Improving the medal system! 2013-01-14 07:19:38 Reply

At 1/14/13 04:46 AM, TheRed555 wrote: One last thing: Sometimes there are in game achievements but no NG medals,I thought it would be nice to add medals to these games.Example in this game (Mutate the Labrat 2)

Shouldn't that be up to the author? I think it should.


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Response to Improving the medal system! 2013-01-14 12:20:26 Reply

At 1/12/13 06:28 PM, MikeyS9607 wrote: I think porn games should be allowed to have medals if they are of good quality, and not just stolen artwork galleries/quizzes, and as long as they keep the points down. 100pts for Cumming in a meetnfuck would be too easy.

I think if they have low pts or maybe 0 pts, it would be fine. At least these who don't want to get medals for watching porn won't miss much. I just think that the medal system shouldn't encourage people to watch porn.
I keep imagining saying this: "Hey, if you want an easy medal, watch porn!" or "I just got a medal for watching porn :D"..

At 1/13/13 05:35 AM, TheRed555 wrote: Some easy 100 Pts medals should be revalued(Not more than 10pts) example :This game and this one : For clicking 9 times you get 900 Points!That's not fair.

I'm with you in this one. They should either remove the medals or lower them.

Also,Some impossible medals should be removed example :In this game The last medal "Make The Impossible Possible" is really impossible,What do you think?

I don't know about this one but I think these kind of medals were mentioned in a thread before. It was for broken medals and impossible medals. These impossible medals should be removed because you can only get them by hacking, which is something we don't want :o

At 1/14/13 07:19 AM, Knuckstrike wrote:
At 1/14/13 04:46 AM, TheRed555 wrote: One last thing: Sometimes there are in game achievements but no NG medals,I thought it would be nice to add medals to these games.Example in this game (Mutate the Labrat 2)
Shouldn't that be up to the author? I think it should.

Yea it's up to the author. You can actually PM the author about adding medals to his game.
I actually PMed amidos2006 about adding medals to his games because I really enjoyed playing them. He said that he will try that with his next game.
The next game he released had medals and all of his following games did. I also tell him about the broken medals or bugs and he fixes the game. He listens! .. unlike some other authors :P (I respect this guy)
So, you can PM authors about it. They may listen :o

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Response to Improving the medal system! 2013-02-03 10:25:33 Reply

A suggestion by glorygamestudio:
There are some "un-tested" medals that can't be acquired until they get approved or become "tested".
As a player, it would be really nice to know whether the medal is tested or not, so that I don't waste my time for nothing.
I'm not really a game developer but many of them told me that the medal is not broken, it's un-tested. I'm not really sure how to fix this but the idea is to show us "the players" that the medal is still un-tested.

I think if they make a system that counts the number of users who acquired each medal, this wouldn't be a problem. All you have to do is see how many people got this medal and you will know if it's broken or not (although it's not always the case. Some medals get broken later on.)

Anyway, it would be really nice to know the un-tested medals with a mark or something instead of attempting a medal that is not working.

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Response to Improving the medal system! 2013-05-02 09:13:36 Reply

One new suggestion:
A compare medals button in the medal section of a game would be useful (to quickly compare my medals with the other users without even browsing my medals page),I know that a search button in the medals wall would make this suggestion kind of useless,but I want to know what you guys think.

This topic hasn't been posted in since february,3 months of inactivity.

Improving the medal system!