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Is newgrounds dying?

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PoisonHeart
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Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-27 02:13:51 Reply

Hey guys, I saw the link-picture at the top-corner there that said "Don't Let Me Down" with a picture of Tom's face crying. At first I thought it was funny and dismissed it, but every time I saw it something sat weird with me.

And then I got it. He really believes in us, doesn't he? As a community, a culture, as artists, developers, and flash fanatics. I have to wonder how much those servers cost to let everyone upload everything and keep it forever. I sense there is something bad on the horizon for newgrounds, and I get it now.

Tom Fulp believes in us. When it says "Don't let me down", and he's crying...dude, I wanna cry too. I mean, yeah, it's sort of a funny picture. But he is so passionate about newgrounds.com....I mean the mission statement is in the title, right? New grounds. New horizons with guns a blazin'. That's what the tankman thing is all about, right?

I don't know what to do. I feel so bad for everyone that takes advantage of Newgrounds without giving anything back, and I feel such respect and love for all of you ((stfu) that give as much as you can. I used to be all like "yeah, fuck newgrounds, they be rollin' in that green", but I checked out some stat trends over time and actually Newgrounds is being crushed in terms of site views. And as we all know, more views = more ad clicks.

I frankly don't know how they do it, here. It's incredible. If there was ever a cause I believed in, this is it. It's not like solving aids in africa or housing the homeless. This is something that can be changed, before it can't be reversed. I wish that the U.S. government recognized things like NG as being national treasures and protected them as such by unloading a dump truck full of money into their headquarters.

I wish I knew what more to do than buy a Supporter pack, merchandise, and work on cool projects in the hopes that they'll bring in more users to NG. Fuck Kongregate.com and Armorgames, they're out for a profit more than anything. I don't think they really believe in the flash community like Tom and his crew do.

Sorry to ramble on, but I feel really bad about my past attitude towards Newgrounds and I understand now. Maybe I'm being oversensitive due to my long stint of apathy, but I'm just so worried for Newgrounds and the dreams we've all shared through it. How to do more?

Dude, fuck this, I am crying. Call me a fag or whatever, but fuck you, I don't want to see Newgrounds die. Is that going to happen if we as a community don't do something? And Don't feed me shit about "mysterious forces" keeping Newgrounds alive to make me feel better, unless those "mysterious forces" are private billionaires and you can cite some sources on that shit.

Is newgrounds dying?


*citation needed

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4urentertainment
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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-27 05:04:20 Reply

At 10/27/12 02:13 AM, PoisonHeart wrote: Dude, fuck this, I am crying. Call me a fag or whatever, but fuck you, I don't want to see Newgrounds die. Is that going to happen if we as a community don't do something? And Don't feed me shit about "mysterious forces" keeping Newgrounds alive to make me feel better, unless those "mysterious forces" are private billionaires and you can cite some sources on that shit.

There are no mysterious forces. There would be if Tom had allowed investors to invest in Newgrounds, but his fear that they might ruin NG and his urge to keep it independent has stopped that from happening. And that may be a good or bad thing. But that's another topic.

As for:

How to do more?

Newgrounds is special because it's more than just a website. It's a beautiful community that has enticed creativity and fostered talent throughout the years, with all its lore. Producing people that have gone on to creative ground-breaking projects or to be creative thinkers, such as all the people that have gone on to become very successful game developers, or the musicians whose careers were kickstarted on Newgrounds, or the people who get their first publishing deal because of newgrounds.

Newgrounds lives through the work of all the people it has inspired. The sad thing is, Newgrounds likely isn't going to die off anytime soon, it just won't be able to grow and flourish without enough funding.

Newgrounds has pretty much pioneered flash games, as well as the idea of users submitting content.

What *you* can do is just be part of that. Your work can help it grow and influence Newgrounds as well as the people that visit it.

GoldHazard
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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-27 05:26:18 Reply

Ive been a patron of Newgrounds since 2006, even though I only registered to the community just short of a year ago. Right now, it may seem like Newgrounds is having problems. That image is a clickable link that will take you to a page where you can support NG by paying a small sum ($25 I believe) to help support the website and community. Doing this will award you a supporter icon for your profile, as well as make NG 100% ad free for you.

A lot of advertisements on this website haven't been working. I'm thinking it's because Newgrounds may have been rejected from hosting advertisements from sites that NG links to.

I plan on doing my part to support the community as soon as I'm able. Of course doing this is totally optional, but at least it will buy the administrators lunch for a day. :)


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Auz
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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-27 08:02:22 Reply

At 10/27/12 05:04 AM, 4urentertainment wrote: There would be if Tom had allowed investors to invest in Newgrounds, but his fear that they might ruin NG and his urge to keep it independent has stopped that from happening. And that may be a good or bad thing. But that's another topic.

Tom actually asked the communities' opinion about this at some point and most users said Newgrounds should stay independent. One of the biggest arguments being that some websites have indeed been ruined when private investors started to meddle with it.

Anyway, OP, if you at least want to help out a bit, turn off your ad blocker for Newgrounds ;)


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4urentertainment
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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-27 13:21:32 Reply

At 10/27/12 08:02 AM, Auz wrote: Tom actually asked the communities' opinion about this at some point and most users said Newgrounds should stay independent.

It's the opposite actually. Most users said Newgrounds should take the money, and that was my opinion as well.

http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1301711

Investors aren't evil people that want to ruin everything. They'd lose money too. Sure, too much corporate meddling is often a bad idea for artistic projects such as Newgrounds, but they wouldn't be selling the company outright. I can see that maybe the investors would not want pornographic content on Newgrounds, which would be a good thing in my opinion as it would get rid of hentai games and all the porn submissions in the art portal, leaving popular spots for the actually good art.

Just think how many more features and how much awesomer Newgrounds could become if it had the money and the resources. NG has been working on a multiplayer API for developers to use for a really long while, and that could have been finished a long while ago and could have been *the* multiplayer API all flash developers use. And that would have gotten Newgrounds to occupy a very important role in the flash market.

As Tom keeps implying, NG is working on some really great and innovative features. They just need time and money. I mean they're still fixing bugs from the last redesign.

Just my 2 cents.

Archonic
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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-27 14:03:01 Reply

At 10/27/12 01:21 PM, 4urentertainment wrote:
At 10/27/12 08:02 AM, Auz wrote: Tom actually asked the communities' opinion about this at some point and most users said Newgrounds should stay independent.
It's the opposite actually. Most users said Newgrounds should take the money, and that was my opinion as well.

http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1301711

Maybe you should actually read the thread. If most users had said for Tom to take the money, he would have done it. The entire purpose of the thread was for him to find the general opinion of the userbase on VC and then follow through with it. Hence why NG remains private.


EGB || Sig by EmmaVolt

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4urentertainment
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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-28 04:15:58 Reply

At 10/27/12 02:03 PM, Spretznaz wrote: Maybe you should actually read the thread. If most users had said for Tom to take the money, he would have done it. The entire purpose of the thread was for him to find the general opinion of the userbase on VC and then follow through with it. Hence why NG remains private.

Did you read the thread? Tom was counting the number of users that voted for taking the money or not, and you can see he stopped counting after page 4 presumably because everyone kept saying he should take the money.

Most users did vote for taking the money. Just because they did so doesn't mean Tom has to follow through, and it doesn't mean that the majority were right either. That *was* the original purpose of the thread but as you can see, NG remains private contrary to the general opinion of the userbase.

I still think taking money would be very beneficial to Newgrounds at this point. You mentioned in the thread how sites that sell out end up being money hungry vacuums. The trick is they wouldn't be selling the website outright. They would just be getting investors which would *not* have the authority (as far as I understand) to illicit any jarring changes in Newgrounds.

PoisonHeart
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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-28 09:49:29 Reply

Hey, thanks 4UREntertainment! I appreciate your level-headed logic, here. I just want to be the best I can, and I really believe in Newgrounds as a community that can shape the world for the better. Yeah, there's a nice dark tint to the whole place, which I really like...but it's all for fun! Nothing here is really going to hurt you or steal your wallet. Newgrounds gives me motivation every day to keep going, and to believe in foolish dreams. I just don't want to see the happiness and creativity this place has fostered go under.

At 10/27/12 08:02 AM, 4urentertainment wrote:

:Newgrounds lives through the work of all the people it has inspired. The sad thing is, Newgrounds likely isn't going to die :off anytime soon, it just won't be able to grow and flourish without enough funding.
I don't think that's accurate due to the amount of server space available that needs to constantly expand in order to continue hosting EVERYTHING by EVERYONE going back five years and infinitely into the future. Economics 101, right? How can Newgrounds compete when ad revenue doesn't synch with the server loads. And yeah, I can donate $25, and I notice that it seems every day about 5-10 people DO get the Supporter pack, but is that really enough?

At 10/27/12 08:02 AM, Auz wrote: Anyway, OP, if you at least want to help out a bit, turn off your ad blocker for Newgrounds ;)

How did you know?! I swear, I only leave it on to avoid ads for penis pills...

Your guy's opinions and insight to investor-supported NG is interesting, but what happened to cool rich people that were clued in? Y'know, young hip cool people like rock stars or famous artists! Why don't they just CONTRIBUTE $X,000,000 to NG instead of wanting to sink their greedy paws into it and lay claim to %X of the site? You'd think these sort of people would be more clued in and recognize the massive cultural value of Newgrounds.
If I was a rich dude, I know I would...

Anyway, thanks for the info, dudes.


*citation needed

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Cootie
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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-28 10:05:33 Reply

I don't think that Newgrounds is in danger of dying anytime soon. Tom himself has stated that although he isn't loaded he and the rest of the staff live comfortably and enjoy their work. Most of the users who really enjoy the site make a point to turn off their ad blockers.


For I am and forever shall be... a master ruseman.

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PoisonHeart
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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-28 10:35:43 Reply

At 10/28/12 10:05 AM, Cootie wrote: I don't think that Newgrounds is in danger of dying anytime soon. Tom himself has stated that although he isn't loaded he and the rest of the staff live comfortably and enjoy their work. Most of the users who really enjoy the site make a point to turn off their ad blockers.

That's awesome, they deserve to live comfortably with all the work they put into Newgrounds.


*citation needed

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kanef
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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-28 11:07:21 Reply

the portal may be dead (anything passes, unfunny crap on the frontpage) but the BBS will live on


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PoisonHeart
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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-28 11:21:45 Reply

At 10/28/12 11:07 AM, Kane-Farrell wrote: the portal may be dead (anything passes, unfunny crap on the frontpage) but the BBS will live on

Dude, are you kidding? Ragemelon, Batman Hates Bronies, Segius Arena, Dark Soul, Draggin' Brawl Zzz..., Rubert Da Koopa, Plungerdog, just to name a few that are really good and on the frontpage. Yeah, there's some stuff that's not all that, but pick and choose, right?

Also, yeah! go forum! Whoohoo


*citation needed

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PoisonHeart
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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-28 13:14:32 Reply

Yes, yes, okay thank you Bane. Now let's let this embarrassing thread of mine die quietly...


*citation needed

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sweet21
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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-28 13:17:59 Reply

The short answer, look at the forums.

Go buy things!


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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-28 13:25:40 Reply

At 10/28/12 11:23 AM, Travis wrote: 1. As you are all aware, Newgrounds is now taking $25 supporter donations. This tells us that, the site is not making a great amount of money, i.e. IT IS NOT GETTING TONS OF TRAFFIC LIKE IT USED TO.

Sounds like a pretty good reason to take VC.

2. Going off of reason 1, if an investor puts a big amount of VC into the site, then they get to shape how the site forms so traffic gets raised.

3. Censorship, censorship... If a certain investor was to give NG money and didn't like all of the adult shit we have on here, then they could pressure Tom to start censoring it because it's no longer his call and if that investor thinks it would increase traffic, then they have influence.

Again, just because we get some investors doesn't mean Tom and co lose all control of Newgrounds.

We don't need venture capital on Newgrounds. We need users (particularly leeching BBS users) to donate some money to a place that they fill A LOT of their free time with, and this supporter donation is an amazing way to do it.

I remember either Tom or Wade said that, since the BBS users are like a pretty tiny fraction NG's userbase, it was far more important to get the people who visit the site just for the games and movies to donate.

Users can only donate so much. I mean, don't tell me you're not excited to see what Newgrounds can build with hundreds of thousands, or maybe even millions of dollars in budget. Can you imagine all the features NG can create? Can you imagine how NG can transform the industry?

And if the price to pay for that is less porn on the website, then I think that's a pretty cheap price to pay.

Again, just because a lot of the time sites that sell out get ruined doesn't mean it has to be the case here.

PoisonHeart
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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-28 13:33:35 Reply

I think it would be funny if NG ran adult-content ads ONLY if you had "auto-play A-rated content" turned on or you watched x number of adult-entertainment submissions. Although, maybe then more and more people would turn adblock back on for Newgrounds.
Plus, 4UREntertainment, if we had less adult-oriented content on NG, not only would it be discriminating against aspiring artists and developers (whatever their tastes) but it just wouldn't be...Newgrounds!

I don't know! This is really complex. Not sure how letting a major credit union own %X of NG would play out.


*citation needed

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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-28 15:09:06 Reply

I feel like Newgrounds has gotten less awesome recently.


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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-28 15:57:36 Reply

NG should just take VC


original I am.

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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-29 07:20:12 Reply

At 10/28/12 06:01 PM, Travis wrote: What makes Newgrounds what it is, is complete control by Tom, so we can have a special place that isn't a shithole like Youtube.

We need complete control, plain and simple.

Why do we need complete control?

Actually, let me rephrase. Why does Tom need complete control? He may not always be able to make the best decisions for Newgrounds, just like how anyone else may not always be able to make the best decision for the company.

It doesn't matter if you have complete control over the company if you can't do much because of budget restrictions. And then you're forced to do stuff to cater to advertisers so they give you money. Which no one wants.

This isn't as black and white as you make it out to be. We're both arguing without really knowing much about the details of what such a deal entails.

Reading Tom's post again carefully, it seems to be that the investors actually don't get any control over the company. All they need is to be paid their money back plus profit, and if the company doesn't generate enough profit, then they'd have to sell Newgrounds or go public.

Let's read the two choices Tom put up again:

1) Keep being NG no matter what the cost. Yeah you are a big disappointment but we believe in you.

2) Take VC money. Spend the next five years being AMAZING, sponsor every game developer and every artist and rule the entire internet. IT MIGHT WORK, NG might become so successful the investors will get rich and back off, and it will be such a success it can just keep being a success forever.

So it's a risk, but that's what the indie spirit is all about. It's all about taking risks, and it's why NG is where it is today. By taking risks and being innovative, as opposed to the generic-corporate mindset of sticking to what works and milking it until it's dry.

Tom even said it himself that he believes he could turn NG into a billion dollar company if he had the funding right now.

See the way I see it is that, the worst case scenario that everyone keeps implying is that NG becomes this bad, generic place like Youtube or whatever. But no one stops to think, what's the other alternative if NG keeps trying to work like this?

The absolute worst thing is if it just tumbles down into the dark corners of the internet, and be remembered as nothing more than a relic of the old age of the internet. And then it would just be a reminder of all the unfulfilled dreams and goals that Tom could have achieved. Sure NG would still be around, but who care about it then if Newgrounds stopped being what makes Newgrounds special?

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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-29 14:41:02 Reply

NewGrounds has had less traffic lately. Many older members, who stopped visiting this site, have asked me why I continue to return. I always tell them, " I enjoy the new flash creations. "


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Response to Is newgrounds dying? 2012-10-31 00:48:30 Reply

Shocking !

Ã- (gasps)... NO , if Newgrounds dies then what would happen to our HISTORY? What would happen to the submissions? what would happen to the forums? (especially this one) ....

But there is nothing *I * can do =.= , i just wish that in the future if Newgrounds didn't die ... i could support them or promote them to our sites....(wait....wouldn't that just be another ad?)

So , if Newgrounds did die .... i would put the following below on the head of the people who fuck them up...

_|\_________________,_
../ `--||||||| HEAD SHOT....] !!â~¼
./_==o _______________/
...),---.(_(__) /
..// (\) ),------'
.//___//
/`----'//
'------

Plus I would put a damn sign on them too:
â*"â*â*â*â-" â-" ___ !!! !!! â-" â-"
â*' â-OE â-OE / \ â-^ â-^ !!! !!! âEU¢âEU¢âEU¢ â-OE â-OE
â* â*â* â-OE â-OE | â-^â-² !!! !!! âEU¢ âEU¢ â-OE â-OE
â*' â-OE â-OE | â-^ â-^ !!! âEU¢âEU¢âEU¢ â-OE â-OE
â*' â-EUâ-EU \___/ â-^ â-^ !!! â-EUâ-EU
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~