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S.s. Collab Discussion Thread

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zelazon
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S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-15 22:23:00 Reply

(Continued from the Music Collab Discussion thread)

Sign-ups can be found here.

Now that we're on the third collab, we need to decide on a few things for this collab based on a few things:

1. Genre

2. BPM

3. Key

4. Order (wasn't as important for the other collabs, but this one, we'll have to decide who goes when)

5. Anything else I might have forgotten.

Also, with mixing/mastering, I might automatically take those considering it allows me to have higher command over things more so than allowing someone to have those responcibilites, however, as the last collab proves, someone who's purely dedicated to the mixing can be much better than someone who tried to do everything themselves, so I'll see how things turn out later.

So, what do you guys think?

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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-16 01:26:18 Reply

At 10/15/12 10:23 PM, zelazon wrote: Now that we're on the third collab, we need to decide on a few things for this collab based on a few things:

1. Genre

2. BPM

3. Key

4. Order (wasn't as important for the other collabs, but this one, we'll have to decide who goes when)

As far as genre, I feel like it might be easier to wait until we have a better idea of what parts each person will be doing before we decide on anything. That being said, I also think that we're going to have to try for something of a hybrid genre to accommodate most of our strengths (for example, look at the hybrid HyperTrough and I did in the last collab).

It's not just important to set the key. In a collab like this, we're going to have to decide on a chord progression for everybody to follow if we want all the parts to really groove with one another. I'd be happy to work on setting that up with some of the other artists prior to the start of the collab (we could put a MIDI containing the chord progression in the file share before it begins).


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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-16 02:27:40 Reply

At 10/16/12 01:26 AM, ObsidianSnow wrote: It's not just important to set the key. In a collab like this, we're going to have to decide on a chord progression for everybody to follow if we want all the parts to really groove with one another. I'd be happy to work on setting that up with some of the other artists prior to the start of the collab (we could put a MIDI containing the chord progression in the file share before it begins).

This. It's really hard for the whole thing to flow properly if everyone's doing their own thing.

The-iMortal
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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-16 02:42:12 Reply

At 10/15/12 10:23 PM, zelazon wrote: 1. Genre

Rockstep

2. BPM

132

3. Key

A major (transitions to a minor key at one or two points)

OMG WHO'S WITH ME?!

zelazon
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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-16 03:10:16 Reply

At 10/16/12 01:26 AM, ObsidianSnow wrote: As far as genre, I feel like it might be easier to wait until we have a better idea of what parts each person will be doing before we decide on anything. That being said, I also think that we're going to have to try for something of a hybrid genre to accommodate most of our strengths (for example, look at the hybrid HyperTrough and I did in the last collab).

Agreed, but until that point on, I think discussion of the matter should commence so that people have a general idea of what's favorable over what's not.

It's not just important to set the key. In a collab like this, we're going to have to decide on a chord progression for everybody to follow if we want all the parts to really groove with one another. I'd be happy to work on setting that up with some of the other artists prior to the start of the collab (we could put a MIDI containing the chord progression in the file share before it begins).

The chord progression is a really good idea and I just need to know what progression people want to take so that we all have an idea of what progression is more favorable more so than others (all except the typical chord progression found in mainstream music... let's try to stay away from that).

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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-16 20:56:48 Reply

At 10/16/12 02:42 AM, The-iMortal wrote:
At 10/15/12 10:23 PM, zelazon wrote: 1. Genre
Rockstep

2. BPM
132

3. Key
A major (transitions to a minor key at one or two points)

OMG WHO'S WITH ME?!

Holy smokes that sounds BAD@SS!!!

Would say making it more relative minor though.
Relative minor of AMajor is F#minor
Not bad.

Hard to chew into that with a standard tuned 7 string.
Maybe do Bminor (relative Major being DMaj)


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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-16 21:02:22 Reply

Recommend breaking into sections of people who:

*Start and make the core backbone of the track
-This would be chord progression makers, rhythm guitars, wobble drops

*Add non-melodics and follow backbones
- This is bass, drums, etc

*Add melody
-This is whoever carries the lead. Guitar, synth, singer, whomever

*Add countermelody, harmony, and fill
- This is non melody background. Backstrings, backsynths, second leads, sound effects

Just a suggestion!


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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-17 14:20:41 Reply

This is kinda off-topic, but what's the status of the previous collab?

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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-17 15:02:17 Reply

At 10/16/12 09:02 PM, RobSoundtrack wrote: Recommend breaking into sections of people who:

*Start and make the core backbone of the track
-This would be chord progression makers, rhythm guitars, wobble drops

*Add non-melodics and follow backbones
- This is bass, drums, etc

*Add melody
-This is whoever carries the lead. Guitar, synth, singer, whomever

*Add countermelody, harmony, and fill
- This is non melody background. Backstrings, backsynths, second leads, sound effects

Just a suggestion!

Yea, this sounds like a pretty good format to follow with this collab. I'll need to categorize the people who are trying to do the backbone/non-melodics in order to see who will go first, then decide (or have them decide) who will go first in that retrospect.

This is kinda off-topic, but what's the status of the previous collab?

You might have to pm Chimeranoise about it. I assume they're still working on it, but it seem like it was going to take a bit of work to finish was they had for us last time.

Also, feel free to discuss about it. I made the new threads so that new people would know that this is mainly about the new collab, but veterans to the collab can still discuss the collabs that have yet finished as well.

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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-17 15:05:51 Reply

1. Genre- Orchestral, or electro orchestral for sure
2. BPM- i think that 150 is a safe guess for a song. Not sure though
3. Key- F major
4. Order- What do you mean by order? Like the structure of the song?

Will we all have a say in the composure of the song? Like can we give feedback on certain parts for the final product?


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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-17 15:27:44 Reply

At 10/17/12 03:05 PM, stunkel wrote: 1. Genre- Orchestral, or electro orchestral for sure

I'm voting for that as well. Orchestral music with electronic influences (i.e. sequenced percussion, synths, etc.). Should be interesting.


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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-17 17:24:52 Reply

At 10/17/12 03:27 PM, Syztm wrote:
At 10/17/12 03:05 PM, stunkel wrote: 1. Genre- Orchestral, or electro orchestral for sure
I'm voting for that as well. Orchestral music with electronic influences (i.e. sequenced percussion, synths, etc.). Should be interesting.

Agreed... I think that the direction we should go in. If anyone believe otherwise, feel free to post below or send a pm my way including your counterpoints.

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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-17 17:44:50 Reply

At 10/17/12 05:24 PM, zelazon wrote:
At 10/17/12 03:27 PM, Syztm wrote:
At 10/17/12 03:05 PM, stunkel wrote: 1. Genre- Orchestral, or electro orchestral for sure
I'm voting for that as well. Orchestral music with electronic influences (i.e. sequenced percussion, synths, etc.). Should be interesting.
Agreed... I think that the direction we should go in. If anyone believe otherwise, feel free to post below or send a pm my way including your counterpoints.

Nothing against doing electro orchestral per say.
I did like rockstep bc it is new and can encompass all of us.
It would sound like we could only do such a thing if all of us were together.

Hmmm
Phasing out real instruments may also phase out some of the ppl onboard consequently


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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-17 18:20:38 Reply

At 10/17/12 05:44 PM, RobSoundtrack wrote: Nothing against doing electro orchestral per say.
I did like rockstep bc it is new and can encompass all of us.
It would sound like we could only do such a thing if all of us were together.

Hmmm
Phasing out real instruments may also phase out some of the ppl onboard consequently

We wouldn't have to phase out real instruments entirely, but what I'm thinking that electro orchestra emcompasses is the ideal that you can have real instruments in combination to electro synth/mixing techniques.

Rockstep... that one would be harder to argue considering that in the last collab people were having issues with their parts being "mangled up" which encompasses the idea of "step"...

Maybe I'm having a different perspective on this then what people are suggesting, so enlighten me more so I have a better idea of what you think about the genre and suggestions so we can accommodate your willingness to participate.

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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-17 20:23:28 Reply

At 10/17/12 06:20 PM, zelazon wrote:
At 10/17/12 05:44 PM, RobSoundtrack wrote: Nothing against doing electro orchestral per say.
I did like rockstep bc it is new and can encompass all of us.
It would sound like we could only do such a thing if all of us were together.

Hmmm
Phasing out real instruments may also phase out some of the ppl onboard consequently
We wouldn't have to phase out real instruments entirely, but what I'm thinking that electro orchestra emcompasses is the ideal that you can have real instruments in combination to electro synth/mixing techniques.

Rockstep... that one would be harder to argue considering that in the last collab people were having issues with their parts being "mangled up" which encompasses the idea of "step"...

Maybe I'm having a different perspective on this then what people are suggesting, so enlighten me more so I have a better idea of what you think about the genre and suggestions so we can accommodate your willingness to participate.

Cool
I can't speak for electro synth, but for the rock/step it would have genre transitions.
Example

Rock/orchestra verse. prechorus has some electronic. chorus is a crazy drop
repeat with variations

So it sound very collaby, and very unique

Not further pushing it, just further explaining what I had in my head


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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-17 20:26:37 Reply

Oop sorry for double post

So that is, another genre starts to come in, then hits hard for a section, etc

And an idea on how to accomplish without buttpain

The chord people could come together first and make the verse, prechorus, chorus(drop for example)

Drums and bass added

Strings and synth and keys added

Melodies added

harmony and countermelody and filler added


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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-18 16:07:21 Reply

At 10/17/12 08:26 PM, RobSoundtrack wrote: Oop sorry for double post

So that is, another genre starts to come in, then hits hard for a section, etc

And an idea on how to accomplish without buttpain

The chord people could come together first and make the verse, prechorus, chorus(drop for example)

Drums and bass added

Strings and synth and keys added

Melodies added

harmony and countermelody and filler added

Looking at all the suggestion you've made, it's a nice strategy... but first we need to decide out of the people who signs up first, or have each of them submit a chord progression (via bassline, harmonies, or etc) that will serve as a foundation to the song.

I'm wondering at this point, since it's going to be be on a single song, if I should allow the first people to start on their parts ASAP, or wait for more people to sign up... I'm thinking about doing the former since we don't really need everyone to start at the same time.

But with that, it would either be a decided chord progression, or one based on the ideas that people create. I'll allow both to happen as we can decide what chord progression to use if no one submits anything or someone submits a chord progression that we all agree is good. I'm impartial to the matter, so let me know what you guys want.

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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-18 16:17:27 Reply

I have no opinion since I am all for drums, means I am all for everything you say.

Any other people do drums?


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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-18 16:22:49 Reply

At 10/18/12 04:07 PM, zelazon wrote: But with that, it would either be a decided chord progression, or one based on the ideas that people create. I'll allow both to happen as we can decide what chord progression to use if no one submits anything or someone submits a chord progression that we all agree is good. I'm impartial to the matter, so let me know what you guys want.

I'll start putting some progressions together, and I'll upload them to the file share - I'll upload both mp3 and MIDI so people can edit and play with them if they want, too. I encourage anyone and everyone else to do the same, if they have any ideas. I'm super busy with school right now, so I can't spend a lot of time on it at the moment, but I'll do what I can.

I figure we can go from there, however we decide to do it.


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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-18 17:21:00 Reply

So I guess I'm mixing? Or...?
I can mix anything you throw at me, my speciality being symphonic power metal which means I'm used to mixing vocals, guitars, epic percussion, a full orchestra and synths all into a single track.

Just let me know if I am mixing or something else so I know if I need to take a more active approach.


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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-18 18:58:34 Reply

At 10/18/12 05:21 PM, MetalRenard wrote: So I guess I'm mixing? Or...?
I can mix anything you throw at me, my speciality being symphonic power metal which means I'm used to mixing vocals, guitars, epic percussion, a full orchestra and synths all into a single track.

Just let me know if I am mixing or something else so I know if I need to take a more active approach.

There was a couple of people (including i-mortal) who wanted to mix for the collab, so you might want to pm them and delegate between yourselves who going to take up the task of mixing or mastering... whatever you decide.

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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-18 19:03:04 Reply

At 10/18/12 06:58 PM, zelazon wrote: There was a couple of people (including i-mortal) who wanted to mix for the collab, so you might want to pm them and delegate between yourselves who going to take up the task of mixing or mastering... whatever you decide.

Actually, I primarily want to master the track. I'm happy for somebody else to do the mixing if they want (as long as the job's done well).

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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-19 03:09:31 Reply

At 10/18/12 06:58 PM, zelazon wrote: There was a couple of people (including i-mortal) who wanted to mix for the collab, so you might want to pm them and delegate between yourselves who going to take up the task of mixing or mastering... whatever you decide.

Well do you want me to provide samples here of previous work or something?


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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-19 03:15:35 Reply

At 10/19/12 03:09 AM, MetalRenard wrote: Well do you want me to provide samples here of previous work or something?

Nah, it's not like we're working on a professional project here. If you're confident you can do a good job, go for it.

I have heard from many sources that the ideal situation is for a track to be mixed and mastered by different people, because of the different perspectives.

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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-19 03:17:23 Reply

At 10/19/12 03:09 AM, MetalRenard wrote: Well do you want me to provide samples here of previous work or something?

Btw, Zelazon was happy for us to work it out between ourselves - that's why I responded. But I mean, if Zelazon wants samples, sure :P

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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-19 06:09:10 Reply

At 10/19/12 03:17 AM, The-iMortal wrote: Btw, Zelazon was happy for us to work it out between ourselves - that's why I responded. But I mean, if Zelazon wants samples, sure :P

Ok well here are a couple. Only listen if you're unsure of letting me mix. FYI I do this for money, making it into a career - I've mixed EPs, I'm producing my own full length album with singers from around the world, I've been producing music for 7+ years and I've got experience with pretty much every genre of music (from pop and music for TV to hard rock to classical).

These 2 tracks encompass the genres we've discussed so far since they use synths, guitars and classical instruments as well as different kinds of percussion:
http://soundcloud.com/metalrenard/adventures-of-the-maniacal -lord
http://soundcloud.com/metalrenard/collective-memories


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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-19 06:19:50 Reply

At 10/19/12 06:09 AM, MetalRenard wrote: http://soundcloud.com/metalrenard/collective-memories

I quite liked that one. Perhaps the tiniest bit of clashing of sibilance in some parts, but overall, a real tight and big sounding mix. And that was 5 months ago - no doubt you've improved. You're gonna be fit for the job.

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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-19 09:32:31 Reply

At 10/19/12 06:19 AM, The-iMortal wrote:
At 10/19/12 06:09 AM, MetalRenard wrote: http://soundcloud.com/metalrenard/collective-memories
I quite liked that one. Perhaps the tiniest bit of clashing of sibilance in some parts, but overall, a real tight and big sounding mix. And that was 5 months ago - no doubt you've improved. You're gonna be fit for the job.

Agreed sounds good.
I think you should be in more confident in your taking charge with it. You are no doubt great at mixing.

Awesome way to combine multiple styles.
I personally feel like one style dominated the other, but maybe that was the intent =]

I like what was said about someone mixing, and someone mastering and multiple perspectives.

It brings about the point that one person can be THE BEST at mixing one genre
But have no clue how another works
Just painting a picture of a really extreme situation of course


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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-19 10:51:13 Reply

At 10/19/12 09:32 AM, RobSoundtrack wrote: I think you should be in more confident in your taking charge with it. You are no doubt great at mixing.

Yep, I just don't want anyone to feel like I'm squeezing in and taking their spot. :) I'm an "English gentleman", I tend to take care with my words to make sure I don't upset anyone. :P

At 10/19/12 09:32 AM, RobSoundtrack wrote: I like what was said about someone mixing, and someone mastering and multiple perspectives.

Yes, this is always, always ideal. If you have money for it you should always get someone else to master your tracks. A separate set of ears, a different room and different equipment means they'll hear things you missed and be able to refine the track in a way that compliments a much broader range of situations.


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Response to S.s. Collab Discussion Thread 2012-10-19 13:56:49 Reply

At 10/19/12 09:32 AM, RobSoundtrack wrote: Agreed sounds good.
I think you should be in more confident in your taking charge with it. You are no doubt great at mixing.

I agree with this as well.

Awesome way to combine multiple styles.
I personally feel like one style dominated the other, but maybe that was the intent =]

When it comes to these types of collab, it's really hard to say if the genre will stick in one direction because if the original design is set up by a different person, then the song can sound entirely different (which is what I hope happens so we have to be creative)

Yep, I just don't want anyone to feel like I'm squeezing in and taking their spot. :) I'm an "English gentleman", I tend to take care with my words to make sure I don't upset anyone. :P

You don't have to feel like that lol. If you have the skills to prove your end of the deal, then by all means, go ahead. Personally, it's exhausting to do all of the creation, mixing, and mastering, because more so than creativity am I trying to get a solid sound from my work. With something like this, it's better if there's someone purely focused on mixing.