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NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners!

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KaDoYuu
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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 02:32 AM Reply

At 10/16/12 12:12 AM, Jazza wrote: even something as simple as all participants receive the "support NG" store purchase (equivalent of $25) and a first prize. Add more chance of fresher participants getting something, even if they don't come 1st.

Prizes like this might even rekindle interest in these events, instead of killing the incentive to compete. It reminds me of how very few people I knew actually watched last year's Winter Olympics.. even though, all the same, the contestants worked hard as ever and played to their best. Sort of sad, actually...


"Trolls are people who long ago gave up the will to live worthwhile lives, and now dedicate themselves to tormenting others, in attempts to drag victims down to their level."

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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 02:56 AM Reply

At 10/16/12 12:40 AM, Hyptosis wrote: Yeah, hell I wasn't trying to piss anyone off. Well, maybe Aegis, but no one else.

You rat bastard.


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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 03:06 AM Reply

At 10/15/12 11:35 PM, TomFulp wrote: When I see people complain about Jazza's team being too pro too participate, it just gets me really mad on some gut level. I don't want the bar to be lowered, I want it to be raised.

Exactly. They win because they try and try hard. They're good not because they picked up Flash yesterday, but because however long they've been at it, they've been constantly improving hemselves. That's what rewards and prizes are for: recognition for work well done.

:And beginners who know they can't compete with the quality of the pros should just try and be that much crazier and more experimental.

...well, maybe. We can hope, anyway.


The next jam could have three winners, or we could try no winners.

First, 2nd, 3rd places would spread the achievements, and it's the standard. But if people are going to bitch and moan, then they could be taken away. There's no rule that says you have to give out fabulous prizes to every winner of every contest, and consolation prizes to the rest. Your generosity provides prizes. Thanks, BTW, Tom. I hope to win something someday.

But anyway, good work nets good rewards. If it was easy, everyone would do it.

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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 03:14 AM Reply

If I was in it for the money, I wouldn't do a Game Jam :D

I could have spent my weekend milking Second Wind for all its worth, instead I decided to have some fun :P

Honestly, I think my team did an outstanding job, and though we aren't/never can be AAA development, it was a good run.

I think I'm/other people are upset simply because it's just a wee bit demoralizing, simply put, no... I don't have the time/resources to pump out games on the level of those who do this for a living. It's kind of like competing any fighting game against Capcom, you know? They'll always have the upper hand, you'll always be the Niche.

I think the bar's pretty high, and that's a good thin, but there's a point where the differences just aren't realistic, you know?


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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 03:23 AM Reply

At 10/16/12 12:40 AM, Hyptosis wrote:
I certainly don't want to exclude anyone, that seems even worse. Then you'll ONLY have bad entries and it'll feel like a waste of time again.

Which isn't to say that the contestants that aren't immediately EXPECTED to win are bad, right? Some of them could be seeking exposure for this very reason and actually have worthwhile entries without the 'fear' of being overshadowed by more well-known artists?

:In the end, though, everyone gets a bit of exposure. It might not be on the front page, but it still does more for them than not competing. I made my point a paragraph, earlier. Now I'm just rambling... pardon.


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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 03:25 AM Reply

At 10/16/12 02:56 AM, Aigis wrote:
At 10/16/12 12:40 AM, Hyptosis wrote: Yeah, hell I wasn't trying to piss anyone off. Well, maybe Aegis, but no one else.
You rat bastard.

Hahahehe :P

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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 05:13 AM Reply

At 10/15/12 07:31 PM, Manly-Chicken wrote:
Ismel has a full for sale game out there...
I wanted to see how I stacked up against the competition without the heavy bias of the NG voting community.
Plus he posted like 10 art pieces...
It's almost as if Tom's forgotten about games, especially the little guys...
I hope Tom at least front pages other games...

HEY hey hey hey hey- My game for sale fucking stinks, and nobody likes it, and nobody bought it. I'm still ON Newgrounds.
I can't be too bad to win anything for years, and then be disqualified from things as soon as I'm actually good at it.

Also Newgrounds is a flash game site above everything else, they get like ten times as many views as anything else so on that point you're bein straight-up cray-cray.

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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 05:20 AM Reply

Also this is my first time entering a game jam, and it was really awesome to make something I'd never usually make.
I'd never get a game about getting lost in snow sponsored, or sold, or anything to make it actually worth making.
Also so far Tom was the only person who got what was going on in this game.

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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 05:55 AM Reply

At 10/16/12 03:14 AM, squidly wrote: If I was in it for the money, I wouldn't do a Game Jam :D

I could have spent my weekend milking Second Wind for all its worth, instead I decided to have some fun :P

Honestly, I think my team did an outstanding job, and though we aren't/never can be AAA development, it was a good run.

I think I'm/other people are upset simply because it's just a wee bit demoralizing, simply put, no... I don't have the time/resources to pump out games on the level of those who do this for a living. It's kind of like competing any fighting game against Capcom, you know? They'll always have the upper hand, you'll always be the Niche.

I think the bar's pretty high, and that's a good thin, but there's a point where the differences just aren't realistic, you know?

Spot-on, right here.

I will say right off the bat: I enjoyed making music, I enjoyed working with the dev team, I enjoyed playing not only our game, but also others' games. No regrets about having taken part in this Game Jam. After 48 hours of competition (and 36 hours of tearing hair apart), there is reason to celebrate.

But then comes a time where we just don't know how we'd fare because people who are in professional/indie dev teams have an obvious upper hand against us. It's not a matter about "mastering Flash right", it's a matter of all factors considered. Some of us have our first Game Jams, some of us have been in it for a while now, and both groups will find it equally demoralising when they know there is a benchmark that they just cannot satisfy.

Makes a musician like me demotivated, you know?


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KaDoYuu
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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 06:06 AM Reply

I get a sad feeling there will be even less interest, next time around.. Will Time prove me wrong, people?


"Trolls are people who long ago gave up the will to live worthwhile lives, and now dedicate themselves to tormenting others, in attempts to drag victims down to their level."

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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 06:38 AM Reply

At 10/16/12 06:06 AM, KaDoYuu wrote: I get a sad feeling there will be even less interest, next time around.. Will Time prove me wrong, people?

Case in point: give me one explanation as to why there were just soooooooo few artists this time round.
When I went on the GJ team thread for the first time, the vast majority were musicians. Programmers were a distant second. You had the rare artist that surfaced on the forums, but otherwise, no one even showed up to be picked for teams.

Why was this happening? If someone can give me a logical answer as to why...


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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 07:12 AM Reply

At 10/16/12 03:14 AM, squidly wrote: If I was in it for the money, I wouldn't do a Game Jam :D

I could have spent my weekend milking Second Wind for all its worth, instead I decided to have some fun :P

Honestly, I think my team did an outstanding job, and though we aren't/never can be AAA development, it was a good run.

I think I'm/other people are upset simply because it's just a wee bit demoralizing, simply put, no... I don't have the time/resources to pump out games on the level of those who do this for a living. It's kind of like competing any fighting game against Capcom, you know? They'll always have the upper hand, you'll always be the Niche.

I think the bar's pretty high, and that's a good thin, but there's a point where the differences just aren't realistic, you know?

My game is Flash 8, Actionscript 2, it has 2 sound effects and it's made out of circles n squares. The snow is me scribbling white onto a transparent PNG, I'm not even using crazy Glaeil bitmap effects.

I actually looked up a game I used to be annoyed about last week, it's Tails Cosmic Rush. This game's stuck in my memory and I can't remember why, I think it really pissed me off back when I was 15. This is around the time I released Cannoncrotch and Crunchdown, which were 2 really old games I made, and it probably pissed me off that this 100% bullshit Sonic game was getting awesome reviews and like high votes n stuff. That used to annoy me, years ago, that Mario Falls of A Cliff would get a million views; so the fact that people who live on Newgrounds who've got good from years of just doing it are getting the same shit is fucking annoying.

If Glaeil was in this game jam, and fuckin Ed McMillen, Egoraptor, Jonny Utah, The Swain was here, fuckin HappyHarry and whoever else, SouljaBoy.newgrounds.com; this wouldn't be the worst game jam ever, it'd be the fuckin best.
It's not BAD that there was an already-formed game team entering, it's bad that there aren't MORE of those.

Also: third point on this list, you can all out-design Jazza. No offense to him, cos I watch his tutorials and I read his blog n stuff, but actually designing a game that's fun to play is his achiles heel, this game is fuckin slow and boring and tedious, it's one note repeated and stretched out, and so was his last game jam game. No offense, again, but I'm saying squares n circles can fuckin TROUNCE this- I spent 2 hours on my entry!

Fuckin point number 56: Game Jams aren't contests, they're just there to give people an excuse to make something quick n put it out, because making games takes too long. Power of 3 was explicitly about encouraging people to cross-communicate on Newgrounds, and spoilers: That's the point of all of these.
In future I hope MORE teams like this enter, and I hope more good-looking games come out of it. If I have to spend the whole 48 hours on the next one to be that guy then I'll do it

On the other hand, just to throw a bone to everyone: I did open this game, and the first thing I said was "oh man this is pretty unsportsman-like to bulldoze over everyone!" but- like that's funny as a joke, but the actual conversation of what's best for everyone, having solid teams entering the game jams is totally what is best for everyone.
I KNOW it feels like there's this division between "those guys have made it n I haven't" and I could write a whole essay about that cos I've been here since like 2004, but this post is long enough already so the short version is that that's actually a massively good thing and it's a huge catalyst for all the best things about Newgrounds.

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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 07:14 AM Reply

Oh if I come off as super pissed off at everyone, sorry, don't worry about, I'm only MARGINALLY pissed off and it'll probably blow over.

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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 07:31 AM Reply

At 10/16/12 07:14 AM, I-smel wrote: Oh if I come off as super pissed off at everyone, sorry, don't worry about, I'm only MARGINALLY pissed off and it'll probably blow over.

Nah, nah, don't worry about it.

I might sound a little more pissed off then I am, I'm not.

Truth is, I can't wait until next Game Jam. I don't care if there are 50 Jazza's out there.

I love a challenge, I didn't expect this to be such a challenge, now I know - come next game jam, it's gonna be a blast.

Game design just so happens to be my strong point, the coding... :/

Let's just accept the fact that what's done is done, I know we're annoyed - but this was my first game jam, I'll be realistic - I wasn't even expecting to FINISH it, the fact that I did is an accomplishment in my book.


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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 07:51 AM Reply

At 10/16/12 07:14 AM, I-smel wrote: Oh if I come off as super pissed off at everyone, sorry, don't worry about, I'm only MARGINALLY pissed off and it'll probably blow over.

Oh no, by all means, you are making the most sense people out of all of us. I find it intriguing that you would like to have more large formidable teams than we already have, most people are just raging about how they want Jazza to be banned. I find it more difficult to find the time to commit to the jam in a single weekend, and uber people like jazza should have no influence as to wether people want to join or not. I say, let's welcome the other top dogs of the portal. Maybe if they mixed themselves into teams, then people would stop bitching about difficulty and start having fun like they should be having in the first place.


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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 07:55 AM Reply

Yea this is my first game jam, I never entered those Tigsource ones.

Look let's just all stick together, and focus our hate toward other game sites like adults. WHO WON YOUR GAM JAM, ARMORGAMES??? OH- OH.. NOBODY?
WHAT'S YOUR ART JAM THEME THIS TIME, KONGREGATE?IS IT GAMESTOP PRE-ORDERS??? WILL I WIN SOME KREDS, YOU ASSHOLES??

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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 08:07 AM Reply

At 10/16/12 07:55 AM, I-smel wrote:
Look let's just all stick together, and focus our hate toward other game sites like adults. WHO WON YOUR GAM JAM, ARMORGAMES??? OH- OH.. NOBODY?
WHAT'S YOUR ART JAM THEME THIS TIME, KONGREGATE?IS IT GAMESTOP PRE-ORDERS??? WILL I WIN SOME KREDS, YOU ASSHOLES??

Quite quite. Superb use of asshole, it tickled my funnybone!


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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 08:10 AM Reply

Thanks I always aim for my asshole to be as ticklish as possible.

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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 08:24 AM Reply

At 10/16/12 08:10 AM, I-smel wrote: Thanks I always aim for my asshole to be as ticklish as possible.

I enjoy tickling assholes as well. Freaking yummy...


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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 09:09 AM Reply

At 10/16/12 01:09 AM, NoLanLabs wrote: Any word on why this jam was 48 hours instead of 72? I feel like this just gives an experienced team like Jazza's more of an advantage, because 48 hours to make a game with people I'd never worked with before felt really, really short.

48 just works for the weekend but I'd love to have some longer jams, especially week-long jams. A lot more people could carve out time to make something if they had a week - even if they didn't dedicate the full week.


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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 10:05 AM Reply

At 10/16/12 09:09 AM, TomFulp wrote:
At 10/16/12 01:09 AM, NoLanLabs wrote: Any word on why this jam was 48 hours instead of 72? I feel like this just gives an experienced team like Jazza's more of an advantage, because 48 hours to make a game with people I'd never worked with before felt really, really short.
48 just works for the weekend but I'd love to have some longer jams, especially week-long jams. A lot more people could carve out time to make something if they had a week - even if they didn't dedicate the full week.

But of course, people aren't solely restricted to releasing their games, movies, or whatever during that time, it's just the challenge. Remember the cases of nearly every single jam in existence? There's normally several people who finish up a few hours after the deadline, and even a few days, and they are all just as good as everyone else's.


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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 11:07 AM Reply

At 10/16/12 07:14 AM, I-smel wrote: Oh if I come off as super pissed off at everyone, sorry, don't worry about, I'm only MARGINALLY pissed off and it'll probably blow over.

I'm sorry. Like I said, I'm not mad at any game dev, I WANT as many people to be in this game jam as possible. I'm just upset that I had to go against 2 flashes made by people who are as awesome as you guys are.

Also: Thanks Tom for the front page. I know I annoyed you and I'm sorry too.


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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 11:26 AM Reply

You know honestly, I think we'd all enjoy joining random teams if we knew they'd actually be reliable. The last two game jams that were with randoms that I joined BOTH times the programmer or a key member bailed last minute and we had a butt ton of assets but no game, or a game with no assets.

I like working with the Elvidian crew cause (A.) We're friends. (B.) We have fun together. (C.) We work well together.

The only advantage Elvidan has over everyone else is they all work together often. I'm not sure why anyone would be upset that a group of friends who are really passionate about what they do, coming together and doing a game jam for fun would be "demoralizing" or "discouraging" in any way.

Call me crazy, but I know I'm not the best at what I do. And that pushes me forward to learn, and practice my craft more and more. When someone is better than me, I get freakn motivated, not discouraged. But maybe thats just me..

Maybe the next game jam should have no winners, no prizes.

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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 11:33 AM Reply

We've done charity stuff in the past like with Power of Three - we should do another jam where everyone gives a % of earnings to a charity account. We could then have a one-month follow-up where we announce how much money the JAM raised so far. Could bring a better spirit to the whole thing.


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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 11:38 AM Reply

At 10/16/12 11:33 AM, TomFulp wrote: We've done charity stuff in the past like with Power of Three - we should do another jam where everyone gives a % of earnings to a charity account. We could then have a one-month follow-up where we announce how much money the JAM raised so far. Could bring a better spirit to the whole thing.

That sounds like an excellent idea. Also maybe extending the "Charity Jam" to a full week so teams have more time to polish would be awesome too.

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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 11:43 AM Reply

Well whatever we do, we need to make it in a way so that there is a good experience for everyone and not a feeling of distaste.


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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 11:51 AM Reply

At 10/16/12 11:26 AM, ZStriefel wrote: You know honestly, I think we'd all enjoy joining random teams if we knew they'd actually be reliable. The last two game jams that were with randoms that I joined BOTH times the programmer or a key member bailed last minute and we had a butt ton of assets but no game, or a game with no assets.

Yeah I've actually teamed up with LenkoBiscuit before who is a WAY better artist than me, I started a game with Luis, and I THINK I made a game with Ansel and they all dropped out, so I don't join teams any more.

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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 11:57 AM Reply

The charity idea is great, I'm always trying to find a way to help charities with my work without directly taking money from my own empty pockets. :P

We regardless of how upset anyone got, I think by now we're all over it. It's a silly damn thing to get upset about and even myself kinda felt a tinge of 'why did I bother' at the end, and I don't know why. I really don't know why, it isn't the winning team's fault. They did a good damn job and no one will argue that. Everyone who completed something did a good job too just getting it done.

I'm glad to see that this thread didn't get nasty, this is why NewGrounds rock. People expressed discontent and weren't trashed for it, and they didn't get too bent out of shape themselves.

I for one will do the next jam no matter what, if ?I have the time when it arises. Good work guys!

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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 12:25 PM Reply

I'm pretty surprised at the amount of complaints that JAZZA's on the winning team again. His team is amazing, they deserve it and whoever doesn't want to stand for it should just grow a pair and accept it. I'm sure he and his team worked hard on their game just like everyone else did. Instead of asking for the bar to be lowered for more fairness, look at it from a different perspective and take their victory as an excuse to improve, find great teammates, learn how to cooperate properly, develop your knowledge of flash/art/music/etc, learn new techniques, get motivated, and beat the heck out of them next time. Or hey, maybe not, but at least you're serving to raise the bar with a more solid and professional contribution from your end, and you're also bettering yourself at what you do in the end too, let's not forget that.

That's the right attitude; not calling it "demoralising" or whatever and saying that it's pretty useless to compete with such a good team and hope to beat them. And even if it is... this game jam's an experience to learn stuff and have some fun. If you're doing it for the exposure, the money or the mentions in the NG news post, then in my honest opinion, you're doing it wrong. Balanced competition is fun, sure, but the way I see it the great thing about these game jams is the experience, and if something shifts the balance of fairness in someone's opinion, then they should not complain about it because the experience is great in the end anyway.

I like the idea of making game jams with random teams but I agree with ZStriefel that this shouldn't happen all the time. Last time I joined a team of people I didn't quite know and never worked with before, we simply didn't make it because certain people weren't delivering their expected workload. I ended up making music for something that to this day, after many many months, has not been completed. On the other hand, random teams get people out of their comfort zones and allow them to meet and work with new people, so they're a great idea, as long as there's an equal amount of future game jams that allow you to pick your own team.


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Response to NATA, Game & Art Jam Winners! Oct. 16th, 2012 @ 12:34 PM Reply

Charity is always a good idea.

Also, we should stop blaming Jazza. The real culprit is zeedox and those damn backgrounds.

sarcasm...mostly ;)