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At 10/16/12 12:12 AM, Jazza wrote: even something as simple as all participants receive the "support NG" store purchase (equivalent of $25) and a first prize. Add more chance of fresher participants getting something, even if they don't come 1st.

Prizes like this might even rekindle interest in these events, instead of killing the incentive to compete. It reminds me of how very few people I knew actually watched last year's Winter Olympics.. even though, all the same, the contestants worked hard as ever and played to their best. Sort of sad, actually...

At 10/16/12 12:40 AM, Hyptosis wrote: Yeah, hell I wasn't trying to piss anyone off. Well, maybe Aegis, but no one else.

You rat bastard.

If I was in it for the money, I wouldn't do a Game Jam :D

I could have spent my weekend milking Second Wind for all its worth, instead I decided to have some fun :P

Honestly, I think my team did an outstanding job, and though we aren't/never can be AAA development, it was a good run.

I think I'm/other people are upset simply because it's just a wee bit demoralizing, simply put, no... I don't have the time/resources to pump out games on the level of those who do this for a living. It's kind of like competing any fighting game against Capcom, you know? They'll always have the upper hand, you'll always be the Niche.

I think the bar's pretty high, and that's a good thin, but there's a point where the differences just aren't realistic, you know?

At 10/16/12 12:40 AM, Hyptosis wrote:

I certainly don't want to exclude anyone, that seems even worse. Then you'll ONLY have bad entries and it'll feel like a waste of time again.

Which isn't to say that the contestants that aren't immediately EXPECTED to win are bad, right? Some of them could be seeking exposure for this very reason and actually have worthwhile entries without the 'fear' of being overshadowed by more well-known artists?

:In the end, though, everyone gets a bit of exposure. It might not be on the front page, but it still does more for them than not competing. I made my point a paragraph, earlier. Now I'm just rambling... pardon.

At 10/16/12 02:56 AM, Aigis wrote:

At 10/16/12 12:40 AM, Hyptosis wrote: Yeah, hell I wasn't trying to piss anyone off. Well, maybe Aegis, but no one else.

You rat bastard.

Hahahehe :P

At 10/15/12 07:31 PM, Manly-Chicken wrote:

Ismel has a full for sale game out there...

I wanted to see how I stacked up against the competition without the heavy bias of the NG voting community.
Plus he posted like 10 art pieces...
It's almost as if Tom's forgotten about games, especially the little guys...

I hope Tom at least front pages other games...

HEY hey hey hey hey- My game for sale fucking stinks, and nobody likes it, and nobody bought it. I'm still ON Newgrounds.
I can't be too bad to win anything for years, and then be disqualified from things as soon as I'm actually good at it.

Also Newgrounds is a flash game site above everything else, they get like ten times as many views as anything else so on that point you're bein straight-up cray-cray.

Also this is my first time entering a game jam, and it was really awesome to make something I'd never usually make.
I'd never get a game about getting lost in snow sponsored, or sold, or anything to make it actually worth making.
Also so far Tom was the only person who got what was going on in this game.

I get a sad feeling there will be even less interest, next time around.. Will Time prove me wrong, people?

At 10/16/12 03:14 AM, squidly wrote: If I was in it for the money, I wouldn't do a Game Jam :D

I could have spent my weekend milking Second Wind for all its worth, instead I decided to have some fun :P

Honestly, I think my team did an outstanding job, and though we aren't/never can be AAA development, it was a good run.

I think I'm/other people are upset simply because it's just a wee bit demoralizing, simply put, no... I don't have the time/resources to pump out games on the level of those who do this for a living. It's kind of like competing any fighting game against Capcom, you know? They'll always have the upper hand, you'll always be the Niche.

I think the bar's pretty high, and that's a good thin, but there's a point where the differences just aren't realistic, you know?

My game is Flash 8, Actionscript 2, it has 2 sound effects and it's made out of circles n squares. The snow is me scribbling white onto a transparent PNG, I'm not even using crazy Glaeil bitmap effects.

I actually looked up a game I used to be annoyed about last week, it's Tails Cosmic Rush. This game's stuck in my memory and I can't remember why, I think it really pissed me off back when I was 15. This is around the time I released Cannoncrotch and Crunchdown, which were 2 really old games I made, and it probably pissed me off that this 100% bullshit Sonic game was getting awesome reviews and like high votes n stuff. That used to annoy me, years ago, that Mario Falls of A Cliff would get a million views; so the fact that people who live on Newgrounds who've got good from years of just doing it are getting the same shit is fucking annoying.

If Glaeil was in this game jam, and fuckin Ed McMillen, Egoraptor, Jonny Utah, The Swain was here, fuckin HappyHarry and whoever else, SouljaBoy.newgrounds.com; this wouldn't be the worst game jam ever, it'd be the fuckin best.
It's not BAD that there was an already-formed game team entering, it's bad that there aren't MORE of those.

Also: third point on this list, you can all out-design Jazza. No offense to him, cos I watch his tutorials and I read his blog n stuff, but actually designing a game that's fun to play is his achiles heel, this game is fuckin slow and boring and tedious, it's one note repeated and stretched out, and so was his last game jam game. No offense, again, but I'm saying squares n circles can fuckin TROUNCE this- I spent 2 hours on my entry!

Fuckin point number 56: Game Jams aren't contests, they're just there to give people an excuse to make something quick n put it out, because making games takes too long. Power of 3 was explicitly about encouraging people to cross-communicate on Newgrounds, and spoilers: That's the point of all of these.
In future I hope MORE teams like this enter, and I hope more good-looking games come out of it. If I have to spend the whole 48 hours on the next one to be that guy then I'll do it

On the other hand, just to throw a bone to everyone: I did open this game, and the first thing I said was "oh man this is pretty unsportsman-like to bulldoze over everyone!" but- like that's funny as a joke, but the actual conversation of what's best for everyone, having solid teams entering the game jams is totally what is best for everyone.
I KNOW it feels like there's this division between "those guys have made it n I haven't" and I could write a whole essay about that cos I've been here since like 2004, but this post is long enough already so the short version is that that's actually a massively good thing and it's a huge catalyst for all the best things about Newgrounds.

Oh if I come off as super pissed off at everyone, sorry, don't worry about, I'm only MARGINALLY pissed off and it'll probably blow over.

At 10/16/12 07:14 AM, I-smel wrote: Oh if I come off as super pissed off at everyone, sorry, don't worry about, I'm only MARGINALLY pissed off and it'll probably blow over.

Nah, nah, don't worry about it.

I might sound a little more pissed off then I am, I'm not.

Truth is, I can't wait until next Game Jam. I don't care if there are 50 Jazza's out there.

I love a challenge, I didn't expect this to be such a challenge, now I know - come next game jam, it's gonna be a blast.

Game design just so happens to be my strong point, the coding... :/

Let's just accept the fact that what's done is done, I know we're annoyed - but this was my first game jam, I'll be realistic - I wasn't even expecting to FINISH it, the fact that I did is an accomplishment in my book.

Yea this is my first game jam, I never entered those Tigsource ones.

Look let's just all stick together, and focus our hate toward other game sites like adults. WHO WON YOUR GAM JAM, ARMORGAMES??? OH- OH.. NOBODY?
WHAT'S YOUR ART JAM THEME THIS TIME, KONGREGATE?IS IT GAMESTOP PRE-ORDERS??? WILL I WIN SOME KREDS, YOU ASSHOLES??

Thanks I always aim for my asshole to be as ticklish as possible.

You know honestly, I think we'd all enjoy joining random teams if we knew they'd actually be reliable. The last two game jams that were with randoms that I joined BOTH times the programmer or a key member bailed last minute and we had a butt ton of assets but no game, or a game with no assets.

I like working with the Elvidian crew cause (A.) We're friends. (B.) We have fun together. (C.) We work well together.

The only advantage Elvidan has over everyone else is they all work together often. I'm not sure why anyone would be upset that a group of friends who are really passionate about what they do, coming together and doing a game jam for fun would be "demoralizing" or "discouraging" in any way.

Call me crazy, but I know I'm not the best at what I do. And that pushes me forward to learn, and practice my craft more and more. When someone is better than me, I get freakn motivated, not discouraged. But maybe thats just me..

Maybe the next game jam should have no winners, no prizes.

At 10/16/12 11:33 AM, TomFulp wrote: We've done charity stuff in the past like with Power of Three - we should do another jam where everyone gives a % of earnings to a charity account. We could then have a one-month follow-up where we announce how much money the JAM raised so far. Could bring a better spirit to the whole thing.

That sounds like an excellent idea. Also maybe extending the "Charity Jam" to a full week so teams have more time to polish would be awesome too.

At 10/16/12 11:26 AM, ZStriefel wrote: You know honestly, I think we'd all enjoy joining random teams if we knew they'd actually be reliable. The last two game jams that were with randoms that I joined BOTH times the programmer or a key member bailed last minute and we had a butt ton of assets but no game, or a game with no assets.

Yeah I've actually teamed up with LenkoBiscuit before who is a WAY better artist than me, I started a game with Luis, and I THINK I made a game with Ansel and they all dropped out, so I don't join teams any more.

The charity idea is great, I'm always trying to find a way to help charities with my work without directly taking money from my own empty pockets. :P

We regardless of how upset anyone got, I think by now we're all over it. It's a silly damn thing to get upset about and even myself kinda felt a tinge of 'why did I bother' at the end, and I don't know why. I really don't know why, it isn't the winning team's fault. They did a good damn job and no one will argue that. Everyone who completed something did a good job too just getting it done.

I'm glad to see that this thread didn't get nasty, this is why NewGrounds rock. People expressed discontent and weren't trashed for it, and they didn't get too bent out of shape themselves.

I for one will do the next jam no matter what, if ?I have the time when it arises. Good work guys!

I'm pretty surprised at the amount of complaints that JAZZA's on the winning team again. His team is amazing, they deserve it and whoever doesn't want to stand for it should just grow a pair and accept it. I'm sure he and his team worked hard on their game just like everyone else did. Instead of asking for the bar to be lowered for more fairness, look at it from a different perspective and take their victory as an excuse to improve, find great teammates, learn how to cooperate properly, develop your knowledge of flash/art/music/etc, learn new techniques, get motivated, and beat the heck out of them next time. Or hey, maybe not, but at least you're serving to raise the bar with a more solid and professional contribution from your end, and you're also bettering yourself at what you do in the end too, let's not forget that.

That's the right attitude; not calling it "demoralising" or whatever and saying that it's pretty useless to compete with such a good team and hope to beat them. And even if it is... this game jam's an experience to learn stuff and have some fun. If you're doing it for the exposure, the money or the mentions in the NG news post, then in my honest opinion, you're doing it wrong. Balanced competition is fun, sure, but the way I see it the great thing about these game jams is the experience, and if something shifts the balance of fairness in someone's opinion, then they should not complain about it because the experience is great in the end anyway.

I like the idea of making game jams with random teams but I agree with ZStriefel that this shouldn't happen all the time. Last time I joined a team of people I didn't quite know and never worked with before, we simply didn't make it because certain people weren't delivering their expected workload. I ended up making music for something that to this day, after many many months, has not been completed. On the other hand, random teams get people out of their comfort zones and allow them to meet and work with new people, so they're a great idea, as long as there's an equal amount of future game jams that allow you to pick your own team.

Charity is always a good idea.

Also, we should stop blaming Jazza. The real culprit is zeedox and those damn backgrounds.

sarcasm...mostly ;)