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Ngadm '12: Finals

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Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 11:31 AM Reply

And so, here we are. After roughly three months since the start of the auditions, we are now finally at the finals of the Newgrounds Audio Deathmatch (NGADM)! Never heard of the NGADM? Go here. Signing up wouldn't be particularly helpful at this point, considering the auditions closed like two months ago. This thread marks the end of Round 4 and the start of the Finals.

The scores list below contains a list of all the pairings of Round 4, each judge's score on the individual submissions, and the winner of the pairing. I have to say, and the judges will likely agree with me on this point, that the submissions we had this round were some of the best we've ever had in an NGADM. Well done to all the competitors!

After the scores are handed out, during the 2 weeks of the Finals, the judges will be working on posting reviews on your submissions' Newgrounds pages. These reviews will explain the scores you were given and will appear whenever the judges finish them, so keep an eye out for the incoming reviews during these next few weeks!

But first, rules:

1.) Do NOT ask why you were given a particular score in this thread. The review will be posted on your song in due time. If you've got something to say to a particular judge, do it via PM.

2.) Please wait until everything is posted before posting yourself. By everything, I mean results and pairings. It may take up more than one post.

3.) Any Finals submissions go in this thread. Do not use older threads.

4.) PMs will be sent notifying everyone of this thread. If you have already seen this thread and then receive a PM, disregard what it says in the PM.

5.) Read the RULES again. You never know, you might have missed something.

Also, thanks to camoshark for keeping up the role of compiling an ongoing song list and Artist-Lost once again for making the supermegaawesomesauce logo you see below. Seriously, go check out his art. Like now.

Also, thanks to Jiimaan, sorohanro, Buoy, BrokenDeck, Back-From-Purgatory and SkyeWintrest for working very hard on judging your submissions so you could get the results on time. Jiimaan and sorohanro replaced Step and Breed for this round for reasons mentioned previously, so thanks go to them for stepping up to the job quickly and efficiently.

And now, the results! Remember, don't post till everything is posted!

Ngadm '12: Finals

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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 11:32 AM Reply

Group 01: Waterflame v. TroisNyxEtienne

- Waterflame
--- Jiimaan: 7.50
--- Sorohanro: 9.00
--- Brokendeck: 7.00
--- Buoy: 8.00
--- Back-from-Purgatory: 7.00
--- SkyeWintrest: 9.00
AVERAGE: 7.92

- TroisNyxEtienne
--- Jiimaan: 8.00
--- Sorohanro: 7.00
--- Brokendeck: 7.00
--- Buoy: 7.00
--- Back-from-Purgatory: 4.00
--- SkyeWintrest: 8.80
AVERAGE: 6.97

====================
WINNER: Waterflame
====================

Group 02: BlazingDragon v. Kor-Rune

- BlazingDragon
--- Jiimaan: 7.50
--- Sorohanro: 8.00
--- Brokendeck: 9.00
--- Buoy: 8.50
--- Back-from-Purgatory: 8.50
--- SkyeWintrest: 9.30
AVERAGE: 8.47

- Kor-Rune
--- Jiimaan: 8.50
--- Sorohanro: 10.00
--- Brokendeck: 9.00
--- Buoy: 9.00
--- Back-from-Purgatory: 8.50
--- SkyeWintrest: 9.85
AVERAGE: 9.14

====================
WINNER: Kor-Rune
====================

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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 11:33 AM Reply

WINNERS:
01.) Waterflame
02.) Kor-Rune

PAIRINGS:
Scott Pilgrim vs The World

--

Congrats to the winners, Kor-Rune and Waterflame, who will now compete for the honour of being the best audio artist in 196 artists who originally auditioned. Good luck!

A well-done also goes to the two losers of this round, TroisNyxEtienne and BlazingDragon, who have both been admirable competitors and deserve a lot of praise nonetheless. Also, I'd like to stress again not to ask for reviews or ask/complain about why you got a particular score in this thread. Back-From-Purgatory is watching every move very closely, and will delete any posts that violate the rules.

And that's it.

Now,

WATERFLAME AND KOR-RUNE. FIGHT... TO THE DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Ngadm '12: Finals

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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 11:53 AM Reply

.....farewell.


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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 12:18 PM Reply

In hopes of taking second place, I had wished to avoid a match with Kor-Rune until the final round. Looks like my intuition was right!

Amazing work to everyone this round. The variety of styles is astounding and it is clear that everyone put a lot of work into their pieces. As for me, I'm thrilled to have made it this far considering how I didn't think I'd make it to the top sixteen a few rounds back! I'll try my hand again next time and see if I can make it to the top. :D

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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 12:27 PM Reply

less and less people are losing each round. must mean submissions are getting better.

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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 12:31 PM Reply

At 10/7/12 12:27 PM, Buoy wrote: less and less people are losing each round. must mean submissions are getting better.

I'm sorry, what?
You can take that statement back, thank you very much.


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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 12:39 PM Reply

At 10/7/12 12:31 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote:
At 10/7/12 12:27 PM, Buoy wrote: less and less people are losing each round. must mean submissions are getting better.
I'm sorry, what?
You can take that statement back, thank you very much.

Oh, come on. Buoy's logic makes total sense.


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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 01:04 PM Reply

At 10/7/12 12:31 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote:
At 10/7/12 12:27 PM, Buoy wrote: less and less people are losing each round. must mean submissions are getting better.
I'm sorry, what?
You can take that statement back, thank you very much.

lol

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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 01:14 PM Reply

At 10/7/12 12:31 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote:
At 10/7/12 12:27 PM, Buoy wrote: less and less people are losing each round. must mean submissions are getting better.
I'm sorry, what?
You can take that statement back, thank you very much.

Well, like in sport, the winning team from round 1 go to round 2 and so on, so, it's possible that a match in round 2 is less good that the one in round 1. Still, I believe that people focus and learn more and more, so, the quality will get better and better.

Anyway, all tracks were great and I can clearly see a HUGE improvement in your music. You always had very good compositions but now you make even more complex music. Also you struggled to get the best quality for your track (got a better microphone), still, more things to learn from the technical point of view.
In many voices could benefit form a better eq, compress and reverb, in some places despite of strong emotional performance, some places could be pitch corrected (where the voices stack and it's more obvious, especially compared to the VSTi's that play with perfect pitch).

Well, I'll write a review probably today and I'll try to make it as constructive I can :)

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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 02:12 PM Reply

Erm, wasn't I a judge in this competition, and didn't I send you my votes?


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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 02:27 PM Reply

At 10/7/12 02:12 PM, camoshark wrote: Erm, wasn't I a judge in this competition, and didn't I send you my votes?

Just talked with Step, apparently it was all a misunderstanding. Oh well, I'll be reviewing each submission anyways.


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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 06:23 PM Reply

Soooo, who is making the signatures for the top three?

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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 06:24 PM Reply

At 10/7/12 01:14 PM, sorohanro wrote:
At 10/7/12 12:31 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote:
At 10/7/12 12:27 PM, Buoy wrote: less and less people are losing each round. must mean submissions are getting better.
I'm sorry, what?
You can take that statement back, thank you very much.
Well, like in sport, the winning team from round 1 go to round 2 and so on, so, it's possible that a match in round 2 is less good that the one in round 1. Still, I believe that people focus and learn more and more, so, the quality will get better and better.

Admittedly, Sorohanro, I have been battered enough during this week, and this is the culmination of it all. Believe me, when you are working on a track that would normally take Akiko Shikata a good month to work on in just two weeks, you are bound to have people who love that track, and people who hate it.

I need to emphasise this: there has been a comment that said I was biting more than I could chew. If every attempt to replicate songs that play in my head is essentially that -- biting more than one could chew -- I'd never attain that sound to begin with!

Not only am I embittered by this, I am disillusioned. Half the time it makes me wonder how many people's hearts I even touched with that piece. I don't know what you guys think, but from my judgement, probably a few thousand here on NG are going to call it no more than junk.


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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 06:55 PM Reply

At 10/7/12 06:24 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote:
(

Somehow I see that you can't take to lose. Well, the track was well composed and very powerful emotionally composed, but in order to really touch people's heart with a song you need to catch first their attention and "grab their ears", and most of that stuff it's technical and can be learned (unlike emotions).
As much effort and emotions you put into a piece of art, there will always be someone better and always someone worst.

I have been battered enough during this week

Well, that's just a pessimistic point of view. I would say that you made it to finals.
Also, when comes to art, most of opinions are subjective, colored by personal taste, moods, cultural environment...etc.
I would say you did pretty good and you should keep doing it. As you know since before you joined NG, I strongly believe in your talent and maybe because of that I can't stop noticing the technical details and think "this could have been so much better if....".

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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 07:05 PM Reply

At 10/7/12 06:24 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote: Admittedly, Sorohanro, I have been battered enough during this week, and this is the culmination of it all. Believe me, when you are working on a track that would normally take Akiko Shikata a good month to work on in just two weeks, you are bound to have people who love that track, and people who hate it.

I need to emphasise this: there has been a comment that said I was biting more than I could chew. If every attempt to replicate songs that play in my head is essentially that -- biting more than one could chew -- I'd never attain that sound to begin with!

Not only am I embittered by this, I am disillusioned. Half the time it makes me wonder how many people's hearts I even touched with that piece. I don't know what you guys think, but from my judgement, probably a few thousand here on NG are going to call it no more than junk.

I've listened to all of the track posted for the competition at this stage, and I think everything has been said is warranted... I also understand the challenge of making a song every two is a bit challenging in itself (especially if you have other things to do as well...

But remember that you were granted a chance to be a part of the competition, and that you beat out a lot of competitors who were trying to get into this competition. You tried, you experimented, and you did well to get to this point, but at the same time, you have to realize that at some point that there might be the potential to fall short of your expectation.

And it's not about touching people's hearts... it's about doing the best you possibly can, and making sure what you produce will be favorable all that hear your work. Making sure all the harmonies correctly harmonize, making sure it's consistent and structured... It all encompasses the idea that you brought out the best in you, and that you're going to come in swinging against your opponent... who happens to be an excellent artist as well.

So don't feel sad... You did well.

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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 07:12 PM Reply

At 10/7/12 06:55 PM, sorohanro wrote:
At 10/7/12 06:24 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote:
(
Somehow I see that you can't take to lose.

I genuinely wanted to net this, but I was prepared for everything -- a win or a loss. But I am embittered by the insensitivity that some have shown. >_<

I have been battered enough during this week
Well, that's just a pessimistic point of view. I would say that you made it to finals.

My battering came with the things I had been put through during the week, before recording and mixing took place -- and these took a toll on me.

Now I wish I wasn't pessimistic, but I can't pretend that everything's okay. My mixing has been and always will be the death of me.


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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 07:12 PM Reply

At 10/7/12 06:24 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote: I need to emphasise this: there has been a comment that said I was biting more than I could chew. If every attempt to replicate songs that play in my head is essentially that -- biting more than one could chew -- I'd never attain that sound to begin with!

Not only am I embittered by this, I am disillusioned. Half the time it makes me wonder how many people's hearts I even touched with that piece. I don't know what you guys think, but from my judgement, probably a few thousand here on NG are going to call it no more than junk.

Don't take feedback too negatively! That simply means that if there is something you can't do because your current abilities don't allow you to, you should find a way round it to try convey that same message you had in your head, without letting that get in the way, hindering the final product. If the final product is altered in any way because you tried to go beyond what you can manage, it is very probable that what you tried to tell others is altered too.

I'm pretty sure that if I tried to play a certain instrument in a way that my current abilities simply don't allow me to, the final product would be very sloppy and hard to understand, and, while it could sound good in my head, other people would tell me another thing.

Cheers!

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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 07:16 PM Reply

At 10/7/12 07:12 PM, Braiton wrote:
At 10/7/12 06:24 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote: Stuff
More stuff

Would there be a much simpler method to recreate something like this?

Simple answer: NO.
I'm sorry, but there isn't any way of simply getting around it.

I took an approach which cost me. I am not backing out on it.


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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 07:29 PM Reply

At 10/7/12 07:16 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote: Would there be a much simpler method to recreate something like this?

Yes.
Get a team, don't work alone. Don't try to do everything at the same time and more stuff to learn from in a PM.
I don't think is the same person singing, playing guitar, making children voices, playing violin solo and mixing.

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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 07:29 PM Reply

At 10/7/12 07:16 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote:
At 10/7/12 07:12 PM, Braiton wrote:
At 10/7/12 06:24 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote: Stuff
More stuff
Would there be a much simpler method to recreate something like this?

Simple answer: NO.
I'm sorry, but there isn't any way of simply getting around it.

I took an approach which cost me. I am not backing out on it.

Just some of the top off my head.

1) Practice harder till you get it right.
2) Think of a way to rearrange your composition in a way that it's not too hard on some instruments
3) Ask for help and advice from other people on how to achieve certain sounds, mixing, etc.
4) Use all your tools at disposal. You could use pitch correction software for parts where vocals are not quite, right, I'm pretty sure not a lot of people would mind.

I understand that you took an approach and defend it, I applaud you, but you can't expect other people, be it judges or casual listeners, to get the same message you tried to convey.

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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 07:37 PM Reply

At 10/7/12 07:29 PM, sorohanro wrote:
At 10/7/12 07:16 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote: Would there be a much simpler method to recreate something like this?
Yes.
Get a team, don't work alone. Don't try to do everything at the same time and more stuff to learn from in a PM.
I don't think is the same person singing, playing guitar, making children voices, playing violin solo and mixing.

This thing was only done by two people. One person who did all the composing and mixing, and the other who did the choruses.

Yeah. Now what did you say about a team again?

At 10/7/12 07:29 PM, Braiton wrote: I understand that you took an approach and defend it, I applaud you, but you can't expect other people, be it judges or casual listeners, to get the same message you tried to convey.

Well, then, it defeats the purpose of me trying, doesn't it!?


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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 08:01 PM Reply

At 10/7/12 07:37 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote: This thing was only done by two people. One person who did all the composing and mixing, and the other who did the choruses.

Yeah. Now what did you say about a team again?

Well, then, it defeats the purpose of me trying, doesn't it!?

But the example you gave was done by a team.

Listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdHpRAad_-g
Listen to the last 2 minutes of the song.
I cried because I can relate to it, the lyrical content. It was done by a team of people. It's really simple, the instruments flow harmoniously, the vocals (although a style dreaded by many) fit perfectly and are full of emotion.

What is my point? Now, I'm pretty sure you can't have other people participate in your submission if they didn't do so from the very beginning, however, that doesn't mean you can't ask for help/advice. If you can't do something, you can always ask for advice from other people to help you tell what you want to tell. You can take things a step down like I've mentioned before, things don't have to be very technical or complicated to get convey emotion to other people (like in the example I gave), which was your original purpose like you stated. I actually get the sensation you tried to imitate the style of the song you provided or tried to impress the judges, which over complicated you. Even if you still want to do it like that, but still can't get it right, ask for advice or simply keep practicing. It's good you tried, but you have to put up with the feedback everyone gives you, "biting a bit more than you can chew here.": You tried something that was simply too hard for you to pull off alone.

Just my opinion. Cheers!

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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 09:02 PM Reply

At various times, Everybody wrote: Stuff.

Okay, look. I'm not going to be nice here, I'm not going to be mean here, I'm going to say exactly what I see as I see it.

1. Biting off more than one can chew is fine. People do that all the time, I do that all the time, it happens. While you might not be able to get the EXACT sound that's in your head (actually, if someone manages to do that, they deserve a medal), you can get an approximation. Most of the time, you don't even get that, but rather something in the same ballpark. To continue with the 'ballpark' idea, imagine trying to hit a ball so that it hits the tip of a corner of the third base plate. It's extraordinarily difficult, right? Hitting just the plate with the ball would be skillful, even. Most of the time, people would hit somewhere nearby, or get it in that general direction so you can tell that they were trying to do it. For music, hitting the ball nearby the plate would be successful.
2. It *is* about doing your best. How can you do better than your best?
3. While a simpler method might not be able to make something like this sexy beast, it could make something just as good or better simply due to the overall quality of the song being better (since you had less time). I'd rather have something simpler that has a higher level of quality than something overly complex but not overly high quality sound-wise. Besides, sometimes simplicity is better than complexity.
4. A team would make it easier to make something, and yes this is possible with the NGADM, as Kor-Rune showed. As long as they didn't help you with the entire thing or do all the work, it's fine. (also, judges can't help assumedly) Remember, different team members can do different things. Having someone assist with the mixing would have helped a lot. And yeah two people count as a team. ^_^
5. People can do truly incredible things alone. I think the other factor that was missing is 'time'. People can do amazing things alone, but time is also a VERY limiting factor. My song Dreamland Chronicles (/shameless advertisement/) is, if I may say so myself, pretty amazing. But it wouldn't have been nearly as good if I only had two weeks to make it, as it took about a month - I make almost all my music by myself, so obviously whether it's a team or not isn't the biggest factor.

There. I'm done. Happy?

Oh right, one last thing:
This thread is for the NGADM, not debates of this type. It'd be nice if this could be moved to PM, a news post, a skype conversation, a different thread, or some other form of communication outside of this thread that is meant to be about the NGADM. Please? c: I'm not able to force it or anything since I'm no mod, but I can at least politely ask.


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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 09:03 PM Reply

Oh god, i scrolled down slower than a 28K modem render, that was scary. but yay! i won!

Good show, TroisNyxEtienne! you did a great job, and your piece was exelent! dont beat yourself up over it :)
im sure buoy ment it as a joke :) i took it for that, anyway. i was prepared to loose this one, so im amazed with
the outcome myself. i feel like i totally fluked this one.
but remember that winning does not matter! unless you are in it for the price! ;) Im sure we all learned alot
about our compositions, mastering and delivery during this competition. and thats what matters in the end right?

I don't know what you guys think, but from my judgement, probably a few thousand here on NG are going to call it no more than junk.

And dont say things like this. i know for a FACT that thousand of people in the world, if not millions. call my music junk if they hear it. with art you can NEVER please everyone. so just aim for pleasing yourself. :) be confident in what you do! you are a really talented musician. and you should be proud of it :) think about all the people who enjoyed the track instead!
_
now... about my situation here.. going up against kor... I feel like im entering the boss lair here. kor is pretty much flawless, so i will have to do MORE than my best this time around. good luck in the final kor! not that you need it ;)

COMMENCE BATTLE!


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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 09:04 PM Reply

Last thing about this subject, it's already too much here. We can continue on PM.

At 10/7/12 07:37 PM, TroisNyxEtienne wrote: This thing was only done by two people.

If by 2 people you mean a professional singer and a 38 years old producer with about 56 albums, then yes, two people... Asian both.

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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 11:04 PM Reply

WUT HOW :c it was foolproof, I was up against BlazingDragon, I was sure to lose so I wouldn't have to pour more hours of my life into songs.

Dammit. I was hoping to get my car cleaned out, room cleaned up. noep

Definitely happy to make it this far in the competition though. All of this community feedback and well-thought out reviews from the judges have seriously helped me out here, and I think a lot of others, too! The judges all give great advice that have helped me develop tools in composition and mixing to further my own expression c:

Good luck Waterflame! I'm sure you won't need it, I'm feeling a bit sucked dry of songs.

and Trois and BlazingDragon, you guys are awesome musicians. You made it this far! I'm leaving some reviews for everyone as soon as I can muster the time between essays and abusing ctrl+z during recording takes.


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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 7th, 2012 @ 11:28 PM Reply

So, I practically just got home from work.

I'm just gonna say... There will be no more debate about why people should have liked something or not, or why it should have been scored differently in this thread (You know that's what this is about, don't deny it).

Judges opinions will be left in the reviews, if you don't like them or their scores, PM them, this is not the place for this kind of debate.


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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 8th, 2012 @ 10:53 AM Reply

Alright here's the deal. No more talking about NGADM submissions here. It's not the place for it and I don't want to see any more posts on this matter in this thread. If anyone has anything to say about it to me, then PM me.

Trois, you got to the semi-finals from 196 people. That's GOOD. If you're concerned about having lost the NGADM (which you shouldn't be since like I said you made it FAR), then this isn't the place to start debates about it, like it says in the rules. On the other hand, if you're concerned about other feedback you got on your submission, this also isn't the right place to talk about it. Leave it to PMs, newsposts, review responses, etc... Now I order you to go to a mirror, stand up straight and salute yourself for getting this far.

As for Kor-Rune and Waterflame, CONGRATULATIONS. Now please do not hesitate to annihilate each other with awesome music.


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Aqua8B
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Response to Ngadm '12: Finals Oct. 8th, 2012 @ 11:16 AM Reply

Congratz to the two finalists!!
and to the "losers of the round"(it sounds so cruel), You have done your best and you have come the semi finals, you should e proud of yourselves!!!!

and now for my (late) prediction of who i think who going to win...

bababababababababababababababababababababababa

and
the
winner
is

WATERFLAME!!!!!!!!

the funny thing is that i didn't thought kor-Rune would come this far(sorry)
he is the most underestimated of this contest, sorry bro :( :(
If i have hurt anyone's feelings (i don't hope so), I'm truly sorry :(

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