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13 key signifiers of Fascism.

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BloodPact
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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-07 20:57:26 Reply

At 10/7/12 05:54 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 10/7/12 02:29 PM, BloodPact wrote:
Yes you are really getting your point across in throwing insults at people who are trying to engage you in civil conversation.
What I siad goes for everyone incliding myself :-)

Then why not take the higher road? Throw a little humility on yourself. Stop with the name calling and show that you are a better person than your opponent. You will be taken more seriously.


You haven't seen me, yet.

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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-07 21:32:32 Reply

At 10/7/12 08:57 PM, BloodPact wrote:
Then why not take the higher road? Throw a little humility on yourself. Stop with the name calling and show that you are a better person than your opponent. You will be taken more seriously.

Perhaps my issue is that I get off on pumping my own ego by way of mingling with unwitting and ignorant morons and in that regard shame on me as it is all to easy to prey on the weak minded unwitting sheep even if for an altruistic outcome is desired. I hope in truth that at leased I get through to a few people even if I have to discomfort one or two. Thanx for the suggestions and may peace by onto you :-)


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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-07 21:46:20 Reply

At 10/7/12 09:32 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 10/7/12 08:57 PM, BloodPact wrote:
Then why not take the higher road? Throw a little humility on yourself. Stop with the name calling and show that you are a better person than your opponent. You will be taken more seriously.
Perhaps my issue is that I get off on pumping my own ego by way of mingling with unwitting and ignorant morons and in that regard shame on me as it is all to easy to prey on the weak minded unwitting sheep even if for an altruistic outcome is desired. I hope in truth that at leased I get through to a few people even if I have to discomfort one or two. Thanx for the suggestions and may peace by onto you :-)

Point taken. So by saying this you admit to being on a egotistical power trip to show that your intellect is above everybody else based on the fact that you think you can. Their arguments are not going to matter to you because you have already decided beforehand that your reasoning is 100% correct and cannot be proven wrong no matter the evidence presented. I believe this explains a lot about your character and it would seem that there is no point in trying to even reason with you anymore.


You haven't seen me, yet.

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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-07 22:11:30 Reply

At 10/7/12 09:32 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
Perhaps my issue is that I get off on pumping my own ego by way of mingling with unwitting and ignorant morons and in that regard shame on me as it is all to easy to prey on the weak minded unwitting sheep even if for an altruistic outcome is desired.

Pardon me for not being impressed.


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The-Great-One
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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-07 22:21:18 Reply

At 10/5/12 01:22 AM, leanlifter1 wrote: To open minds and restore the constitutional rights to freedom, prosperity, and truth 100% back to the American people and the world.

Something doesn't smell right here.

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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-08 00:25:42 Reply

At 10/7/12 09:32 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Perhaps my issue is that I get off on pumping my own ego by way of mingling with unwitting and ignorant morons and in that regard shame on me as it is all to easy to prey on the weak minded unwitting sheep even if for an altruistic outcome is desired. I hope in truth that at leased I get through to a few people even if I have to discomfort one or two. Thanx for the suggestions and may peace by onto you :-)

I get it now...he is the Maitreya...the Buddha who has achieved pure enlightenment and atonement with the Dharma. He is the one who teaches the unwashed masses the path to enlightenment. His ego is satisfied through altruism. His reasoning and knowledge so perfect that he can explain without giving explainations. To post in his thread to bathe in the cleansing waters of Tusita heavan.

I have been a fool to oppose thee, oh wise Buddha!


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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-08 16:03:14 Reply

At 10/7/12 10:21 PM, The-Great-One wrote:
Something doesn't smell right here.

Change your diaper.


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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-08 16:08:30 Reply

At 10/8/12 04:03 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Change your diaper.

Aww cute, you're trying to trash talk. I sense some bullshit though, smells something similar to Insanctuary.

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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-08 16:09:49 Reply

At 10/8/12 04:08 PM, The-Great-One wrote:
Aww cute, you're trying to trash talk. I sense some bullshit though, smells something similar to Insanctuary.

?


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TheMason
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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-08 17:38:57 Reply

At 10/8/12 04:08 PM, The-Great-One wrote:
At 10/8/12 04:03 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Change your diaper.
Aww cute, you're trying to trash talk. I sense some bullshit though, smells something similar to Insanctuary.

I'm wondering if he's for real like a guy we had on here back in '08 named Shaggytheclown (he then tried to post under the alias PurePress)...or if he's just yanking our chains as part of a new Devils Advocates Group.

If he is for real I think it is hilarious that he calls everyone on here ignorant and full of ego, and looks down upon us...and then cannot defend himself against anyone who shows him for what he is. Or...he chooses to ignore any serious challenge.

Yep...we are dealing with a being of pure intelligence and enlightenment. Follow him...he will lead us out of the Matrix!


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leanlifter1
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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-08 22:39:48 Reply

At 10/7/12 11:38 AM, TheMason wrote:
Fascist nation would not be capitalized unless it is at the beginning of the sentence. Also, there is no space before puncuation.

Fascism is often capitalized http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism


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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-09 09:13:54 Reply

At 10/8/12 10:39 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Fascism is often capitalized http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

Yes...but not the way you used it.

If you are talking about an organized political party (such as Mussolini's Fascist party), then it is capitalized. Just like when you're talking about Republicans, Democrats and Communists.

On the other hand, if you're using it to describe an ideology it is more correct not to capitalize it.

If you're talking about someone who believes in a republican form of government, then republican is not capitalized. (NOTE: we're talking about the form of government here...that goes back to at least ancient Greece). Similarly you do not capitalize democracy or communism when talking about it as a form of government.

Yes, many people do. However, that it is often capitalized does not make it grammatically correct.


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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-09 09:50:58 Reply

At 10/9/12 09:13 AM, TheMason wrote:
At 10/8/12 10:39 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
Fascism is often capitalized http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
Yes...but not the way you used it.

<img src="http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o607/headspin146/Un titled.jpg" border="0" alt="Untitled">


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leanlifter1
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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-09 09:52:38 Reply

At 10/9/12 09:13 AM, TheMason wrote:
At 10/8/12 10:39 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Fascism is often capitalized http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
Yes...but not the way you used it.

I beg to differ according to Merriam Webster.

[IMG]http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o607/headspin146/Un titled.jpg[/IMG]


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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-09 09:53:38 Reply

At 10/9/12 09:50 AM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 10/9/12 09:13 AM, TheMason wrote:
At 10/8/12 10:39 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
Fascism is often capitalized http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
Yes...but not the way you used it.
<img src="http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o607/headspin146/Un titled.jpg" border="0" alt="Untitled">

[IMG]http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o607/headspin146/Un titled.jpg[/IMG]


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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-09 16:17:43 Reply

At 10/9/12 09:52 AM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 10/9/12 09:13 AM, TheMason wrote:
At 10/8/12 10:39 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Fascism is often capitalized http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
Yes...but not the way you used it.
I beg to differ according to Merriam Webster.

I don't need the picture or the link again. In fact I'll cut and paste:

1: often capitalized: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

The Fascisti is Fascist in Italian and it is in reference to a specific political movement/party.

2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control (early instances of army fascism and brutality - J. W. Aldridge)

Here it is used in describing a type of behavior and comparing it to fascism as a form of government/leadership. So it is not capitalized.

Seefascism defined for English-language learners

See fascism defined for kids

the rise of Fascism in Europe before World War II

Here it is in reference to a specific political movement.

From the first hours of Hitler's invasion of the Soviet Union, the propagandists on both sides of the conflict portrayed the struggle in stark, Manichaean language. The totalitarian nature of both regimes made this inevitable. On one side stood Hitler, fascism, the myth of German supremacy; on the other side stood Stalin, communism, and the international proletarian revolution. -Anne Applebaum, New York Review of Books, 25 Oct. 2007

Here it is used to describe a form of government, and like communism, it is written in lower case.

Your first mistake was letting your ego blind you and think you're dealing with someone who is not an intellectual.

Your second was not comprehending what you read. "Often capitalized" means that a word is capitalized in many circumstances...this does NOT mean that it is ALWAYS.

Your third is not reading fully. If you look at the entirity of YOUR own source, you see that it proves me right. Where it is capitalized is when it is talking about a specific party or political movement. BUT when it describes a form of government or just uses it as a word it is in lowercase. Look at the definition of Washington; since it is always...not often, but always...capitalized Webster capitalizes 'Washington' even in the header. But 'fascist' is in lower case.

So I appreciate all the work and effort you put into cutting and pasting a pic of you using paint or something to highlight 'often capitalized' as if you were proving someone else wrong. When in all reality what you were doing is to lessen your credibility.

And before you scream ad hominem...guess what? Argumentum ad hominem is only a fallacy if someone brings up an unrelated characteristic of a person to negate their argument. So if I were to say you were wrong because you're Canadian...that would be an ad hominem fallacy. BUT, for me to point out that you are having some problem with reading comprehension or that you are damaging your credibility and can point to actuall incidences that are related to your argument then it is not an ad hominem fallacy.


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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-09 17:34:22 Reply

At 10/9/12 04:17 PM, TheMason wrote:

Arbitrary Opinions much ?


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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-09 18:03:12 Reply

At 10/9/12 05:34 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 10/9/12 04:17 PM, TheMason wrote:
Arbitrary Opinions much ?

Nope...not arbitrary. Just rules of grammar.

And dude...I just totally pwned you. I used your own source to totally prove you wrong. And all you can say is 'arbitrary opinions'. In the words of the immortal Charlie Sheen:

Winning!

Oh...and you'll engage over silly semantics...but let attacks on your OP's fundamental credibility (reminder: something about fasifiability) slide? Dude, are you Obama's debate coach?


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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-09 18:10:26 Reply

At 10/9/12 06:03 PM, TheMason wrote:
And dude...I just totally pwned you. I used your own source to totally prove you wrong. And all you can say is 'arbitrary opinions'. In the words of the immortal Charlie Sheen:
Winning!
Oh...and you'll engage over silly semantics...but let attacks on your OP's fundamental credibility (reminder: something about fasifiability) slide? Dude, are you Obama's debate coach?

You better make notes as I hardly ever break out the ad hominem attacks but in this case your Ego I am afraid is larger than your brains which is also a prerequisite for mindless voters.


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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-09 19:14:00 Reply

At 10/9/12 06:03 PM, TheMason wrote: Nope...not arbitrary. Just rules of grammar.

I'd have to say that grammar rules are pretty dang arbitrary...

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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-09 19:14:17 Reply

Is this supposed to be like those "You might be a redneck if..." jokes?

You might be a fascist if....


Bellum omnium contra omnes

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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-09 19:18:31 Reply

At 10/9/12 07:14 PM, JoS wrote:
Is this supposed to be like those "You might be a redneck if..." jokes?

You might be a fascist if....

Larry the Cable Guy is so lame he is "almost" funny.


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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-09 19:25:15 Reply

At 10/9/12 07:18 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
At 10/9/12 07:14 PM, JoS wrote:
Is this supposed to be like those "You might be a redneck if..." jokes?

You might be a fascist if....
Larry the Cable Guy is so lame he is "almost" funny.

Jeff Foxworthy.


Bellum omnium contra omnes

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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-10 15:14:49 Reply

At 10/9/12 07:14 PM, JoS wrote: Is this supposed to be like those "You might be a redneck if..." jokes?

You might be a fascist if....

Also if you think Fascism is a joke you might want to check yourself into a mental health ward at the hospital.


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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-10 16:37:31 Reply

At 10/9/12 06:10 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: You better make notes as I hardly ever break out the ad hominem attacks ...

Since when does roughly 2/3rds of your posts involving some sort of name calling count as 'hardly ever'?

... but in this case your Ego I am afraid is larger than your brains which is also a prerequisite for mindless voters.

You talk about being so informed and such an intellectual that you get an ego boost out of helping those of us in the unwashed masses. And yet you have not established either through the intelligence of your posts, your ability to form an argument, or through any sort of bona fides that you are entitled to any status as an 'intellectual'.

Furthermore, you run from any serious challenge to your intellectually thin arguments. You don't make any significant arguments. So for you to demonstrate such a huge ego as I described above...and then criticize anyone else's...is hypocritical and a sign of a pathological mental disorder.

However, there are several of us on here who do have our bona fides.


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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-13 11:03:08 Reply

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause

Yup none of that going on here at (NGS) forums.


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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-13 11:22:40 Reply

At 10/13/12 11:03 AM, leanlifter1 wrote: 3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause

Yup none of that going on here at (NGS) forums.

So the NG BBS is fascist? Either way, we haven't labelled any enemies or scapegoats here. Not liking someone who goe out of their way to deserve it is not how the Fascist governments do it. They pick an enemy to distract or occupy the people. In this case, we are still doing what we would be doing had you never shown up, debating politics amongts ourselves. You definitely aren't a scapegoat either as there is no problem on this board universal enough to make a single scapegoat.

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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-20 17:50:00 Reply

At 10/13/12 11:22 AM, Camarohusky wrote:
So the NG BBS is fascist?

Nope never said or implied that at all.


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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-20 23:16:14 Reply

No country is exclusive to one category of government type. They all have bits and pieces of each type, therefore its more of a spectrum then black and white categories.

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism

Patriotism and nationalism are common to many countries, regardless of the type of government they have. everyone wants to believe they live in the best country in the world.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights

To say the US has a disdain for human rights would be an overstep. While they certainly have pushed the boundaries and crossed some lines in a few cases, overall I would not classify them as human rights abusers. That title should be reserved for the Syrias, North Koreas and Chinas of the world. We should not cheapen the title. If we keep calling people human rights abusers when they really aren't, we become the boy who cried wolf. So instead of crying wolf for every little thing, how about we save it for when it really matters so people will pay attention.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause

Nobody blames themselves for their problems. Everyone does it. You didn't get a promotion at work because jenny flirts with the boss, so she got it. You didn't get re-elected because of your opponents attack ads. You gambled all your money cause mommy didn't love you.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism

Military keynesianism is very prevalent in the United States, there is no way to argue around that. Military spending was once used as a way to create jobs in the US. Unfortunately it has gotten so out of hand it is almost impossible to stop because so many jobs in so many geographical areas are at risk. They have become too big to fail.

5. A controlled mass media

To say the mass media in the US is controlled is once again a gross over statement. While some media organizations are friendly to the government and some are not, this does not make them controlled. Nor does the fact that a few rich people own most of them. A controlled mass media would mean one which the government has full control of their content. In the US this is obviously not the case. Partisan is not the same as controlled.

6. Obsession with national security

This is not something unique to facism in my opinion. Every country has an invested interest in their national security.

7. Religion and ruling elite tied together

The fact that people argue over the word God on money is not evidence religion and the ruling elite are tied together. The ruling elite can be religious and still be separate of the church. It is when the religious elite, those who hold high offices in the church also hold high office in the government that you can say they are tied together. They are merely in the case of the US, friends, but not in bed with eachother.

8. Power of corporations protected

Corporations do have power in the US, there is no doubt about that, but they also have power in Canada, and nearly every country in the world. Did you know under Canadian law a corporation is considered a person?

9. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated

The power of labour has been on the decline in many countries for several decades. Some might argue unions have outlived their need in most industries. With modern day labour laws regulating workplace safety, hours of work etc the need of unions to protect employees is over. Do I agree with that opinion, in some instances yes and in others no.

10. Obsession with crime and punishment

There is no getting around the fact the US has the largest prison population in the world. The biggest problem is the focus on punishment in the criminal justice system especially for drug users. While I think most Canadian criminal sentences are far too leinant, I also don't like the idea of locking up people for simple possession for long periods of time. A better strategy is more effort into rehabilitation for users.

11. Rampant cronyism and corruption

I think we have different definitions of rampant. While friends of elected officials often get jobs or preferential treatment in some cases there are still rules which have to be followed. I would consider it to be rampant cronyism and corruption if public officials always received kickbacks, if I could pay off police officers of other officials for favours.

Do you not ever do favours for your friends? I'm not sure where or if you work, but have you never done a favour for a friend?

12. Fraudulent elections

Gerrymandering of elections is not the same as fraudulent elections. While there will always be some degree of error when counting ballots, and sometimes that means an election result goes to court because its too close to call, well unfortunately that's the reality of polling millions of people at the same time. Is there going to be shoddy tactics used in campaigns, sure, but that is nothing unique to fascism or the US.

While some of these traits are present to some degree in the US, others are just wild accusations. I most certainly do not agree that the US is a fascist country, nor would I take seriously anyone who actually claims it to be so. While some authors may refer to it as fascist in book titles or documentary titles, it is mainly for effect. While some elements of US government and society may bear resemblance to fascism when examined independently of other things, when examined as a whole, anyone who would outright suggest the US is a fascist country all together has some other agenda or has fallen off their rocker.


Bellum omnium contra omnes

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Response to 13 key signifiers of Fascism. 2012-10-21 00:08:16 Reply

At 10/4/12 06:11 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: 13 points to identify that you may live in a Fascist Nation !

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism
2. Disdain for the importance of human rights
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause
4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism
5. A controlled mass media
6. Obsession with national security
7. Religion and ruling elite tied together
8. Power of corporations protected
9. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated
10. Obsession with crime and punishment
11. Rampant cronyism and corruption
12. Fraudulent elections
13. Denial of any or all of the above

Your points are lack quantitative/objective examples. Saying that a nation "obsesses with national security" is such a subjective statement that it can easily be countered with an equally subjective statement (e.g. We don't over-value national security, you *undervalue* national security).

A better strategy would be to find specific examples where a widely-recognized fascist nation committed behavior X, and see if a modern nation committed something like (or exactly) behavior X, as well.

Chris Hedges and Noam Chomsky are pretty good at this, provided you can set any political biases you (and they) have aside.


I must lollerskate on this matter.