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Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies?

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FaeryTaleAdventurer
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Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Sep. 28th, 2012 @ 09:24 AM Reply

Love him or hate him, Julian Assange and his website, WikiLeaks, had fairly recently been designated by the United States government as "enemies of the state", for their documents leaking critical military information.

This has essentially made Assange and Wikileaks the new bin Laden and Al Qaida, respectively. Not really thrilled with this news as from what I've gathered, Assange didn't hack for this information, mere whistleblowers within the U.S. military shared this info to Assange's website (the whistleblowers themselves have also been declared enemies for sharing what they know with Assange and WikiLeaks).

We are looking at the death of freedom of speech, as well as a twisted perspective of the Freedom of Information Act here.

Here's Assange's full speech to the United Nations General Assembly which includes the announcement from the Morning Herald about Assange and Wikileaks "enemy" designation.

If you just want to go right to the announcement, just watch this.

Proteas
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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Sep. 28th, 2012 @ 10:40 AM Reply

At 9/28/12 09:24 AM, FaeryTaleAdventurer wrote: We are looking at the death of freedom of speech, as well as a twisted perspective of the Freedom of Information Act here.

So... if I was to broadcast your personal e-mails and information, you would have no right to question my doing so because it would be a protected act of freedom of speech?

Cough up your passwords.


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Korriken
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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Sep. 28th, 2012 @ 02:07 PM Reply

does that mean we can hit the ecuador embassy with a drone missile?


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Sep. 29th, 2012 @ 03:18 AM Reply

I can see what you're TRYING to say here FTA...but the way you said it sucks and is wrong:

freedom of speech is not protecting wikileaks here...the better arguments would be if the idea of a free press protects them.

The Freedom of Information Act does not apply here as it is not designed to allow for the release of classified documents, and also a formal request citing the act must be made, and then there's a process for release. The Act is NOT designed to protect whistle blowing of this nature.


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BumFodder
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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Sep. 29th, 2012 @ 05:23 AM Reply

Standing up for free speech = enemy of the state

'MURRICA

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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Sep. 29th, 2012 @ 08:19 AM Reply

At 9/29/12 05:23 AM, BumFodder wrote: Standing up for free speech = enemy of the state

Not free speech. This is a case of treason/spying. Assange actively provided classified military information to the enemies of the United States. Tell me how this is not spying.

'MURRICA

Foreigners aren't guaranteed any rights under the Constitution.

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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Sep. 29th, 2012 @ 03:29 PM Reply

I would personally kill Assange myself if the government won't do it. Leaking critical military information and putting millions of lives in danger is NOT to be supported by the first amendment. Imagine if I hacked your private e-mail and gaming accounts and started leaking your conversations to people you don't even know. Both your privacy and your dignity are on the line thanks to me.


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kakalxlax
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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Sep. 29th, 2012 @ 05:07 PM Reply

At 9/28/12 10:40 AM, Proteas wrote:
At 9/28/12 09:24 AM, FaeryTaleAdventurer wrote: We are looking at the death of freedom of speech, as well as a twisted perspective of the Freedom of Information Act here.
So... if I was to broadcast your personal e-mails and information, you would have no right to question my doing so because it would be a protected act of freedom of speech?

Cough up your passwords.

we are talking about information about the government that is voted for the people, lives from the peoples taxes and therefor, works for the people,... you wouldnt let your maid keep secrets about what she does with your home


Its only rape if you say no.

Say no to rape.

morefngdbs
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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Sep. 29th, 2012 @ 06:03 PM Reply

At 9/29/12 08:19 AM, Camarohusky wrote: Foreigners aren't guaranteed any rights under the Constitution.

That is very true
THey also cannot commit treason !

Secondly have you actually read any of the emails.
Much of it is petty bullshit, it should be about as classified as anything you can find on Fox !

personal opinions & derogatory coments on politicians & other diplomats in other countries where Americans were serving sent in emails .... looks fucking good on the assholes who got caught IMO .


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Camarohusky
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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Sep. 29th, 2012 @ 06:21 PM Reply

At 9/29/12 05:07 PM, kakalxlax wrote: we are talking about information about the government that is voted for the people, lives from the peoples taxes and therefor, works for the people,... you wouldnt let your maid keep secrets about what she does with your home

The FOIA, 5 USC 552 (b), explicitly exempts the materials Wikileaks specializes in leaking.

Your analogy is also very insufficient as there is no harm in you or you neighbors knowing what your maid does. Think of this like organic food. People began to learn what happened to their food so they trashed decades of food science for food that has been shown to not only be less healthy, but that takes more land to yield less. When the American people "know" the dirt the government does to achieve the (relatively) clean results, there would be enough of a backlash that people would charge the government to stop without even taking a second to think of the consequences. Would you have had the people clamoring for KSM's release before he confessed to 9/11 and numerous other committed and planned terrorist attacks?

Second, everyone understands what their maid tells them, and if they don't it's of no consequence. When people don't understand the core concept or have all of the information about government acts, bad things happen. Vaccines are a perfect example. Look at how many children are going without vaccines and exposing ALL OF US to old diseases and their vaccine resistant mutations because their parents know in the depths of their ignorant little hearts that vaccines cause autism. The masses of the US are too stupid to understand much of what they are told and will either make their own ignorant conclusions with no background understanding or information, or they will follow the loudest conclusion of someone else who is either equally stupid, or worse, has a personal agenda.

I feel like I've thoroughly undressed this intentionally terrible analogy before...

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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Sep. 29th, 2012 @ 06:48 PM Reply

At 9/29/12 06:21 PM, Camarohusky wrote: Your analogy is also very insufficient as there is no harm in you or you neighbors knowing what your maid does. Think of this like organic food. People began to learn what happened to their food so they trashed decades of food science for food that has been shown to not only be less healthy, but that takes more land to yield less.

I'm not going to appologise for this but you are full of shit.

THere is direct evidence on Wheat & whole grains that have been genetically modified are directly the cause of many ailments affecting North Americans & the world.

I'm not saying the goal of developing a wheat strain that improved yeild , that started in the 60's & giving it to the world to fight hunger wasn't a nobel idea...but to do thousands of genetic modifications to increase seed pod size, then see the plants colapse before harvest becasue the stalk couldn't suppor the weight , so they modified the stem to give us a 14 inch high plant almsot doubling yeild for the same plot of land ...& let us not mention the huge increase in artificial fertilizer & oil to power the equipmewnt to do so.
Witout any testing on humans to see if any of these modifications were harmful .so snce the 80's where it was "GIVE UP THE FAT.... EAT MORE WHEAT & WHOLE GRAINS"
And what have we gotten for this 30 year experiment.
Obesity at the highest level in human history, affecting every income bracket, every nationality, both sexes.
Diabetes going from 6% to 22% in our population
Increases in Colitus. ulcers, irritible bowel syndrom, gluten alergies exploding through our population & now scientists are figuring out the changes are not all good at all !

So before you go spouting bullshit , remember there are some of us who are dealing with health problems directly related to genetically modified wheat .
ANd I am one of them
& the nutritionists, doctors , specialists who have been treating me have made a major difference in my life...not by prescribing lots of drugs...but by simply teaching me about what is being learned & how simple it is to be healthy, by simply no longer eating that stuff .

And there are lots of other grains & seeds that can be safely eaten...& boy's & girls, just because it isn't affecting you now, doesn't mean it won't affect you when you get older.
That is what happened to me & when your food starts poisoning you, yer not going to like it very much & the so called factory farming methods that need genetically modified foods to make their profits ain't going to do you any good with their cheap production cost ... cause you can't eat it.

Look at the problems coming from feed lot meats, animals constantly fed growth hormons, antibiotics to keep them alive the same type of food (usually genetically modified grain) look at the suffering they do, stomach & digestive problems where pasture, grass fed beef doesn't have that , the difference in free range eggs & chicken, you can actually see the difference in the color of the egg yolk, the consistency of the egg white, the color & taste of the chicken or turkey is not slightly different, it is completely different !

CarmaroH ...I may not be as familiar as you are with your system of Government, & even though I know what the definition of a facist state is & you ignore that definition as per any dictionary.
When it comes to genetically modified foods we are setting ourselves up for a massive failure !


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BumFodder
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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Sep. 29th, 2012 @ 07:24 PM Reply

At 9/29/12 08:19 AM, Camarohusky wrote: Not free speech. This is a case of treason/spying. Assange actively provided classified military information to the enemies of the United States. Tell me how this is not spying.

'MURRICA
Foreigners aren't guaranteed any rights under the Constitution.

Proving that the American military is incompetent to the American public =/= Spying for the enemies of America

I shall reiterate my previous point of 'MURRICA.

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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Sep. 29th, 2012 @ 11:02 PM Reply

At 9/28/12 09:24 AM, FaeryTaleAdventurer wrote: We are looking at the death of freedom of speech, as well as a twisted perspective of the Freedom of Information Act here.

Alright, I'm personally getting sick and tired of people saying that "freedom of speech is dying" bullshit, when this really has nothing to do with anything, and it certainly has nothing to do with Assange leaking military secrets to the enemy. Freedom of Information does not cover leaking confidential military material, and is certainly not covered by freedom of speech, contrary to what politically ignorant hipsters and conspiracy nuts want you to believe. Take this for example: if someone as shady as Assange were to leak your personal passwords, e-mails and so on to the rest of the world, wouldn't you be upset? Now imagine that, but make it U.S. military secrets that were only meant for them and no one else, got leaked for the world to gawk at, you would be pissed.

You don't reward people who commit treason by shilling confidential secrets and potentially put innocent lives at stake because of it, that's logic 101.


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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Sep. 29th, 2012 @ 11:46 PM Reply

At 9/29/12 07:24 PM, BumFodder wrote:
At 9/29/12 08:19 AM, Camarohusky wrote: Not free speech. This is a case of treason/spying. Assange actively provided classified military information to the enemies of the United States. Tell me how this is not spying.

'MURRICA
Foreigners aren't guaranteed any rights under the Constitution.
Proving that the American military is incompetent to the American public =/= Spying for the enemies of America

I shall reiterate my previous point of 'MURRICA.

The only part which did help the enemies was that they identified people who they were working with who were best left anonymous. Now they're in danger. But otherwise it's like the Pentagon papers, it either reveals things we've known for a long time or it pretty much reveals that it's much worse than we think it is and it's been that way from the start.


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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Sep. 30th, 2012 @ 12:30 AM Reply

At 9/29/12 05:07 PM, kakalxlax wrote: we are talking about information about the government that is voted for the people, lives from the peoples taxes and therefor, works for the people,... you wouldnt let your maid keep secrets about what she does with your home

No, you're talking about private messages sent back and forth between embassy representatives that somehow ought to be your business. These are not elected officials, they don't answer to you. These were they're private e-mails back and forth to each other.

So, if you want to claim that it's your right to see other people's private e-mails, don't be surprised when someone calls you out on it.


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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Sep. 30th, 2012 @ 05:49 AM Reply

At 9/30/12 12:30 AM, Proteas wrote: So, if you want to claim that it's your right to see other people's private e-mails, don't be surprised when someone calls you out on it.

Well I would be surprised, because I wouldnt expect to be called the enemy of the state if I read peoples private emails.

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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Sep. 30th, 2012 @ 06:59 PM Reply

we are talking about information about the government that is voted for the people, lives from the peoples taxes and therefor, works for the people,... you wouldnt let your maid keep secrets about what she does with your home

True enough; but even so. There is information that the government keeps a secret to ensure OUR safety; like the locations of key facilities or the locations of nuclear missile stockpiles and so on. If an enemy were to get their hands on that information, we're all done for.


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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Oct. 1st, 2012 @ 03:29 PM Reply

At 9/30/12 05:49 AM, BumFodder wrote: Well I would be surprised, because I wouldnt expect to be called the enemy of the state if I read peoples private emails.

It's called an invasion of privacy you moron, and you can be arrested for it. Case in point.


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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Oct. 1st, 2012 @ 06:16 PM Reply

At 10/1/12 03:29 PM, Proteas wrote: It's called an invasion of privacy you moron, and you can be arrested for it. Case in point.

Invasion of privacy is a crime against the state? Well fuck me, why havent I been made an enemy of the state yet then?

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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Oct. 1st, 2012 @ 07:08 PM Reply

If governments and corporations can't handle having their dirty laundry aired then they shouldn't have any in the first place.

You know big business has their hands in the government's pockets, and since Wikileaks exposes their shit, they will do everything they can to shut down the site so they can keep their corruption secret.

Hell they're exploiting this so much I'm actually starting to think they deliberately let the info get leaked so they could shut it down.


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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Oct. 1st, 2012 @ 07:36 PM Reply

At 10/1/12 06:16 PM, BumFodder wrote: Invasion of privacy is a crime against the state?

Seeing as how I'm going to have to spoon-feed everything to you anyway, let me google something for you.

At 10/1/12 07:08 PM, wildfire4461 wrote: If governments and corporations can't handle having their dirty laundry aired then they shouldn't have any in the first place.

Cough up your passwords.

Seriously, if any of you feel that strongly about it, I want you to give me the passwords to your private e-mails and financial records so I can publish them for all the world to see. This argument goes both ways; if you have nothing to hide, you have no reason to fear. And hey, according to the topic starter's logic, you're violating MY right to freedom of speech by preventing me from doing so.

You know big business has their hands in the government's pockets, and since Wikileaks exposes their shit, they will do everything they can to shut down the site so they can keep their corruption secret.

Have you actually thumbed through some of the leaked documents?

Hell they're exploiting this so much I'm actually starting to think they deliberately let the info get leaked so they could shut it down.

... where's Idiot-Finder when you need him? He's slacking off.


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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Oct. 1st, 2012 @ 08:06 PM Reply

Wikileaks never leaked passwords so I don't see how this analogy makes any sense.

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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Oct. 1st, 2012 @ 08:34 PM Reply

At 10/1/12 08:06 PM, Feoric wrote: Wikileaks never leaked passwords so I don't see how this analogy makes any sense.

... here's another one, and Idiot-Finder is still nowhere to be seen.

Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies?


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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Oct. 1st, 2012 @ 08:45 PM Reply

My opinion about this topic can be condensed into one sentence:

There would be no need for WikiLeaks if the US government didn't have disgusting things to hide.


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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Oct. 1st, 2012 @ 08:50 PM Reply

At 10/1/12 08:45 PM, kmau wrote: There would be no need for WikiLeaks if the US government didn't have disgusting things to hide.

Like what?


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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Oct. 1st, 2012 @ 10:02 PM Reply

The "I pay taxes so they work for me therefore I'm entitled to all their information" argument doesn't hold water. I bought shares in a company therefore I should be able to read every single email, memo and document the company has?


Bellum omnium contra omnes

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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Oct. 1st, 2012 @ 10:21 PM Reply

At 10/1/12 08:34 PM, Proteas wrote:
At 10/1/12 08:06 PM, Feoric wrote: Wikileaks never leaked passwords so I don't see how this analogy makes any sense.
... here's another one, and Idiot-Finder is still nowhere to be seen.

Wow, what a well thought out retort to my post! Do you get Idiot-Finder to debate for you or something? Or do you just not care about partaking in the discussion?

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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Oct. 1st, 2012 @ 10:31 PM Reply

At 10/1/12 07:36 PM, Proteas wrote:
At 10/1/12 06:16 PM, BumFodder wrote: Invasion of privacy is a crime against the state?
Seeing as how I'm going to have to spoon-feed everything to you anyway, let me google something for you.

That is invasion of privacy how? Youre getting a bit confused.

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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Oct. 1st, 2012 @ 10:47 PM Reply

At 10/1/12 10:21 PM, Feoric wrote: Or do you just not care about partaking in the discussion?

What exactly were you contributing to the discussion, besides being a smartass?

Oh, that's right, you were ignoring everything I said about how the whole "did nothing wrong, have nothing to hide" argument is complete bullshit. It's okay to demand to expect the government to abide by such a dictum, but far be it from any of you to abide by it. In fact, you probably would have the same reaction the U.S. Government did if someone hacked your personal information that way; you would want the individuals brought to justice.

Unless, you truly had nothing to hide.

At 10/1/12 10:31 PM, BumFodder wrote: That is invasion of privacy how? Youre getting a bit confused.

There is an expectation of privacy in the network those e-mails were sent across. He had no right to download them. He had no right to distribute them. He violated the privacy of those Embassy Officials and he endangered the lives of countless U.S. Servicemen and Officials abroad.

I enjoy the fact that Manning will never see the light of day again. I also enjoy the fact that Assange will never have a moment of peace for the rest of his life, being constantly paranoid that some foreign government may deport him to the U.S. to answer for what he did.


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Response to Assange, Wikileaks: State Enemies? Oct. 1st, 2012 @ 11:04 PM Reply

At 10/1/12 08:45 PM, kmau wrote: There would be no need for WikiLeaks if the US government didn't have disgusting things to hide.

Why shouldn't the US government have things to hide? Because we're all carebears living in the happy friendly land in the clouds?