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The-Great-One
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- The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 24th, 2012 @ 05:54 AM Reply

The-Great-One proudly, but somewhat regrettably presents...

___The Newgrounds Official Presidential 2012 Debate & Election Thread___
Not Available on YouTube

After playing a literal game of Clue with the Republican nominees, the bickering between the pundits who claim to be journalists, the use of numbers, political attack ads, hidden cameras, and special guest stars such as Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, and Clint Eastwood, we are now at the debates.

I want this thread to be the epicenter for this debate leading all the way to the election. So let's get started with the candidates shall we?

Democratic Party Candidate
President Barack Hussein Obama II
Birth Place:
Honolulu, Hawaii
Birth Date: August 4, 1961
Background
- Graduate of Colorado University and Harvard Law School
- Professor at University of Chicago Law School
- Senator of Illinois
- 2009 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate

Republican Party Candidate
Governor Willard Mitt Romney
Birth Place:
Detroit, Michigan
Birth Date: March 12, 1947
Background
- Graduate of Harvard University
- Co-Founder of Bain Capital
- Governor of Massachusetts
- President and CEO of the Salt Lake Organizing Committee for the 2002 Winter Olympics

I'm gonna start off with some videos. Interviews done with Mitt Romney and Barack Obama. These interviews come from 60 Minutes and is going to be one of the last few times we get to hear them speak before the debates.

60 Minutes - Campaign 2012
I implore that anyone reading this thread, please watch this video first. I know a lot of people here will be sharing more information about this election, but this is going to be our starting source.

2012 Debate Schedule

October 3, 2012
Topic:
Domestic Policy
Air Time: 9:00-10:30 PM [ Eastern Standard Time ]
Location: University of Denver - in Denver, Colorado
Moderator: Jim Lehrer (Host of "NewsHour" on PBS)

October 16, 2012
Topic:
Town Meeting Format - Including Foreign and Domestic Policy
Air Time: 9:00-10:30 PM [ Eastern Standard Time ]
Location: Hofstra University - in Hempstead, New York
Moderator: Candy Crowley (CNN Chief Political Correspondent)
Here the citizens will ask questions of the candidates in the form of a town meeting. Town meeting participants will be undecided voters selected by the Gallup Organization.

October 22, 2012
Topic:
Foreign Policy
Air Time: 9:00-10:30 PM [ Eastern Standard Time ]
Location: Lynn University - in Boca Raton, Florida
Moderator: Bob Schieffer (Host of "Face the Nation" on CBS)

Now below are the candidates for Vice President. They will both only have one night for their debate and nothing more. It will come after the first Presidential Debate.

Democratic Vice President Candidate
Vice President Joseph Robinette Biden, Jr.
Birth Place:
Scranton, Pennsylvania
Birth Date: November 20, 1942
Background
- Graduate of Syracuse University
- Senator in Delaware
- Wrote the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act
- Wrote the Violence Against Women Act

Republican Vice President Candidate
Congressman Paul Davis Ryan
Birth Place:
Janesville, Wisconsin
Birth Year: January 29, 1970
Background
- Graduate of Miami University in Ohio
- Congressman of Wisconsin's 1st District
- Chairman of House Budget Committee
- Speechwriter

October 11, 2012
Topic:
Foreign and Domestic Policy
Air Time: 9:00-10:30 PM [ Eastern Standard Time ]
Location: Centre College - in Danville, Kentucky
Moderator: Martha Raddatz (ABC News Chief Foreign Correspondent)

CLOSING NOTES
So there you have it. The debates are around two weeks away. If you live anywhere around these areas then you should try to get to the debates. Hopefully you can get some answers to your own questions. All in all, this is gonna be one hell of a ride.


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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 24th, 2012 @ 01:30 PM Reply

Is it just me, or are the debates cutting it a little closer to the election than usual?

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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 24th, 2012 @ 01:47 PM Reply

If the point is to mimic the 'real' debates, you did a good job of putting up the information (from what I read). If the point is to have an actual debate, you dropped the ball. There are numerous candidates that aren't on your list.


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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 24th, 2012 @ 03:02 PM Reply

At 9/24/12 01:47 PM, pirateplatypus wrote: If the point is to mimic the 'real' debates, you did a good job of putting up the information (from what I read). If the point is to have an actual debate, you dropped the ball. There are numerous candidates that aren't on your list.

I think this is just a general debate/election thread.

At 9/24/12 01:30 PM, Dawnslayer wrote: Is it just me, or are the debates cutting it a little closer to the election than usual?

Not really. There are 4 debates in October; 1 VP debate and 3 Presidential debates, one every week. It's been the same since 1976.

Here's the schedule:

October 3, 2012: Presidential Debate in Denver, CO
October 11, 2012: Vice Presidential Debate in Danville, KY
October 16, 2012: Presidential Debate in Hempstead, NY
October 22, 2012: Presidential Debate in Boca Raton, FL

The-Great-One
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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 24th, 2012 @ 04:00 PM Reply

At 9/24/12 01:47 PM, pirateplatypus wrote: If the point is to mimic the 'real' debates, you did a good job of putting up the information (from what I read). If the point is to have an actual debate, you dropped the ball. There are numerous candidates that aren't on your list.

Oh I know that there multiple candidates that should be included. However let's be honest, a third party candidate hasn't won the election and they're not gonna be talked about. This thread is mainly focusing on the Republican and Democratic parties candidates.

If people want to talk about third party candidates in this thread, then by all means please. This is an election thread after all.


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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 24th, 2012 @ 06:12 PM Reply

At 9/24/12 05:01 PM, MuyBurrito wrote: Corrections

My mistake. I apologize.


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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 24th, 2012 @ 08:23 PM Reply

meh, I can already tell you how it's gonna go. both nominees are going to go on stage, make mediocre appearances, nothing major will emerge and both sides will spin things to make the guy they like sound smart and the other guy sound like an idiot.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 24th, 2012 @ 08:36 PM Reply

At 9/24/12 08:23 PM, Korriken wrote: meh, I can already tell you how it's gonna go. both nominees are going to go on stage, make mediocre appearances, nothing major will emerge and both sides will spin things to make the guy they like sound smart and the other guy sound like an idiot.

Watching the debates is like watching NASCAR, you watch it for the accidents.

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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 24th, 2012 @ 08:38 PM Reply

At 9/24/12 08:36 PM, Feoric wrote:
Watching the debates is like watching NASCAR, you watch it for the accidents.

basically.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 24th, 2012 @ 08:54 PM Reply

At 9/24/12 08:41 PM, MuyBurrito wrote: I love this analogy. It's like two NASCAR tracks (veer LEFT vs veer RIGHT) which overlap twice.

And Mitt Romney is the kamikaze pilot that crashes into the track.

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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 25th, 2012 @ 12:05 AM Reply

At 9/24/12 08:36 PM, Feoric wrote: Watching the debates is like watching NASCAR, you watch it for the accidents.

Don't forget the constant going in circles.

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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 25th, 2012 @ 05:18 AM Reply

Joke about the debates all you want, but these debates are a big deciding factor for a lot of American voters. Truth be told I'm one of the swing voters at this point in time. These are the two candidates who the majority of America will vote for, one of these men will be the President, either Obama for a second term or Mitt Romney at the reigns.


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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 25th, 2012 @ 10:37 AM Reply

At 9/25/12 05:18 AM, The-Great-One wrote: Joke about the debates all you want, but these debates are a big deciding factor for a lot of American voters. Truth be told I'm one of the swing voters at this point in time. These are the two candidates who the majority of America will vote for, one of these men will be the President, either Obama for a second term or Mitt Romney at the reigns.

Seriously? What is there to be undecided about at this point? It's not like the candidates has withheld their cards up to this point. You know their characters by now. All you're doing by resting your vote on the debates is openly abandoning all rational thought and letting your vote (one of the most valuable commodities and American has) be decided by silver tongues.

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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 25th, 2012 @ 11:35 AM Reply

At 9/25/12 10:37 AM, Camarohusky wrote: All you're doing by resting your vote on the debates is openly abandoning all rational thought and letting your vote (one of the most valuable commodities and American has) be decided by silver tongues.

Which is exactly what many swing voters will do.

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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 25th, 2012 @ 07:10 PM Reply

At 9/25/12 10:37 AM, Camarohusky wrote: Seriously? What is there to be undecided about at this point? It's not like the candidates has withheld their cards up to this point. You know their characters by now. All you're doing by resting your vote on the debates is openly abandoning all rational thought and letting your vote (one of the most valuable commodities and American has) be decided by silver tongues.

Yes I know both of them. I knew them both back in 2008. I never really cared for Obama, I was behind Hilary more. I also never cared for Romney or McCain, I didn't like anybody the Republicans were running. However when I heard McCain and Obama debate, I felt that McCain could have gotten the job done better than Obama. We'll never know either way. Romney has pretty much said whatever he can to get the Republican Conservatives on his side. This debate will be his chance to get the swing voters on his side.

Obama asked for change and we did get some change, now it's all about moving forward. Which as far as being President goes, he's not stopping his job due to this election, he is still working hard to get things done. I understand that he had a pretty extensive shit list to get through when he got into office and he has been slowly getting through it, we probably could have gotten through it at a faster pace if ALL of congress was behind him, but they sadly were not.

I am still a bit split, because I don't know what Romney is completely for... and I want to know what Obama has in store for his second term if he get's it.


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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 25th, 2012 @ 09:47 PM Reply

hmm, vote for a president that has proven to be a failure or vote for someone who is business literate? Tough decision, right?

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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 26th, 2012 @ 12:04 AM Reply

At 9/25/12 09:47 PM, hateyou1 wrote: hmm, vote for a president that has proven to be a failure or vote for someone who is business literate? Tough decision, right?

Yeah...ask the employees of KB Toys about Mitt Romney's business literacy...


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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 26th, 2012 @ 12:08 AM Reply

At 9/25/12 09:47 PM, hateyou1 wrote: hmm, vote for a president that has proven to be a failure or vote for someone who is business literate? Tough decision, right?

POTUS is a government position, not a business position.

Just look at how Romneys excellent business skills have done in building a winning campsign in what should have been a tip in election.

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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 26th, 2012 @ 12:11 AM Reply

At 9/26/12 12:04 AM, aviewaskewed wrote:
At 9/25/12 09:47 PM, hateyou1 wrote: hmm, vote for a president that has proven to be a failure or vote for someone who is business literate? Tough decision, right?
Yeah...ask the employees of KB Toys about Mitt Romney's business literacy...

Being an asshole doesn't mean incompetency. The guy isn't dumb when it comes to numbers and tax codes, that's for sure. I just don't see how that translates into being a good President, unless you want your President to think of you as an entry in a spreadsheet.

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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 26th, 2012 @ 11:01 PM Reply

At 9/26/12 12:49 AM, 24901miles wrote: Trying not to pick sides for the remainder of my life.

Exactly. I am siding quite a bit with Obama right now, but I want to hear what they both have to say at the debates. If the debates mean nothing, then campaigning means nothing, and that means the presidency means nothing which leads to a conspiracy of government not meaning much and thus bitching ensues about something people don't want to put their input into in the first place, which seems to be the problem.

So let the debates ensue and we'll see what is what. Campaigning is different from debating.


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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 27th, 2012 @ 10:39 AM Reply

At 9/24/12 01:30 PM, Dawnslayer wrote: Is it just me, or are the debates cutting it a little closer to the election than usual?

It's not just you, in 2008, it seemed like everyone was going so hectic over the election, but the press just kind of died down this year. I guess it's because we didn't have a black guy becoming the first President in 2008 or a Vice Presidential candidate as dumb as Sarah Palin.


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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 27th, 2012 @ 03:08 PM Reply

At 9/27/12 10:39 AM, Ericho wrote:
At 9/24/12 01:30 PM, Dawnslayer wrote: Is it just me, or are the debates cutting it a little closer to the election than usual?
It's not just you, in 2008, it seemed like everyone was going so hectic over the election, but the press just kind of died down this year. I guess it's because we didn't have a black guy becoming the first President in 2008 or a Vice Presidential candidate as dumb as Sarah Palin.

It's hard to fake enthusiasm if the race isn't close. Everyone in the media is trying their best to make it seem like it's going to be a close election so you watch their shitty shows, but they know and we know that as of this moment the race is not close at all based on polling.

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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 27th, 2012 @ 03:21 PM Reply

At 9/25/12 09:47 PM, hateyou1 wrote: hmm, vote for a president that has proven to be a failure or vote for someone who is business literate?

On what basis do you consider this presidency a failure, and would subsequently be solved by the "business literate" alternative?


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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 27th, 2012 @ 04:48 PM Reply

At 9/24/12 05:01 PM, MuyBurrito wrote:
..., then avoided Draft by joining Mormon Missionaries, then 30 months in France as a Mormon Missionary. ...

It's kinda hard to pin Mormons as draft dodgers for going on mission. The vast majority of Mormons I grew-up with (and the time that I was one) go on mission between 18-20 as long as they don't get married or knock-up their girlfriend. Then they are expected to do mission work after their children are 18.

So it really is a right of passage and nothing big anymore. Afterall, Clinton dodged too.


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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 27th, 2012 @ 07:59 PM Reply

At 9/26/12 12:08 AM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 9/25/12 09:47 PM, hateyou1 wrote: hmm, vote for a president that has proven to be a failure or vote for someone who is business literate? Tough decision, right?
POTUS is a government position, not a business position.

Just look at how Romneys excellent business skills have done in building a winning campsign in what should have been a tip in election.

Romney was also governor of Massachusetts so he has some experience governing, albeit perhaps not at being an effective governor but some experience nonetheless.

At 9/25/12 10:37 AM, Camarohusky wrote:
At 9/25/12 05:18 AM, The-Great-One wrote: Joke about the debates all you want, but these debates are a big deciding factor for a lot of American voters. Truth be told I'm one of the swing voters at this point in time. These are the two candidates who the majority of America will vote for, one of these men will be the President, either Obama for a second term or Mitt Romney at the reigns.
Seriously? What is there to be undecided about at this point? It's not like the candidates has withheld their cards up to this point. You know their characters by now. All you're doing by resting your vote on the debates is openly abandoning all rational thought and letting your vote (one of the most valuable commodities and American has) be decided by silver tongues.

Going by this logic the conventions wouldn't make much of a difference when in fact the 2012 DNC may have just well won the election for the Democrats.


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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 28th, 2012 @ 04:12 AM Reply

At 9/26/12 12:11 AM, Feoric wrote: Being an asshole doesn't mean incompetency.

No...but the thing he's been running on is "I'm a businessman, I know how to create jobs". Which is a falsehood from where I sit, because what he has ACTUALLY done, and should be saying is "I'm a businessman...I'm in the business of destroying companies, killing jobs, and then making money off the results". But that doesn't really play well to the average voter.

The guy isn't dumb when it comes to numbers and tax codes, that's for sure. I just don't see how that translates into being a good President, unless you want your President to think of you as an entry in a spreadsheet.

I agree completely.


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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 28th, 2012 @ 10:57 AM Reply

It reminds me of last election when I saw Bill Maher and he said there should be a new rule about how people shouldn't be glad when the election is over. I thought he was nuts at first, but now I understand. I actually kind of miss all the people in the 2008 election who were doing stupid things, like the woman who had a "B" or something slashed onto her check. Paul Ryan's pretty dumb, but he's no Sarah Palin. At least there's things like Romney's 47% speech being recorded.


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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 28th, 2012 @ 12:26 PM Reply

At 9/27/12 07:56 PM, 24901miles wrote: That's interesting, I don't know any Mormons. The people I know who are religious are all buffoons, and the geniuses I know are atheists.

It sounds more like you've got a pretty insular existance which forms a myopic worldview then. I've known plenty of PhDs in everything from the humanities to the sciences who are both atheists and believers of some sort.


Romney spent two semesters at Yale and avoided the Draft then. He subsequently avoiding the Draft by going to France as a missionary, completely skipping out on the things that his generation experienced during the Vietnam War Era (death in Vietnam against their will, large scale protests around the United States).

Actually...he only spent two years in France during which time he was in a fatal car accident. Also the life of a Mormon Missionary is not a 'peaceful retreat' but rather Spartan by design to instill humility in people. Furthermore, Missionaries are allowed to ride in cars but not own them while on Mission. Their focus is on their mission, not being on vacation.

All in all, if you knew more about it you'd see it as a reason to vote for Romney. He was immersed in French culture (perhaps he could repair the rifts caused by Bush and Obama), he learned to focus on something larger than himself all the while being denied all the extra comforts and luxuries of life.

And since it was only two years he came back to campuses in turmoil.


He spent his late teens and early 20s in good company on a peaceful retreat in France where his objective was to go door-to-door convincing home owners to convert to his religion, while thousands of Americans his age were dying in combat.

We're past this mattering. We're in a period where military service doesn't matter much.


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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 28th, 2012 @ 12:51 PM Reply

At 9/28/12 04:12 AM, aviewaskewed wrote:
At 9/26/12 12:11 AM, Feoric wrote: Being an asshole doesn't mean incompetency.
No...but the thing he's been running on is "I'm a businessman, I know how to create jobs". Which is a falsehood from where I sit, because what he has ACTUALLY done, and should be saying is "I'm a businessman...I'm in the business of destroying companies, killing jobs, and then making money off the results". But that doesn't really play well to the average voter.

Yes...because we live in a world where every small business is guaranteed of success and the ability to lavish their employees with grandiose salaries and benefits packages. No matter what level of business or finance accumen a person has...as long as they've got talent and a vision making a product or delievering a service...things like business models and bookkeeping will take care of themselves.

Oh and let's not worry about things like demand from the market, or competition. People will still buy products from you because each one of us are special and unique...and the universe will keep the cash flowing in.

I'm sorry but you really need to stop sippin' Kool Aid b/c the adult/real world drinks Scotch.

Yes companies like Bain Capital bust up businesses and close plants down. Or they re-organize businesses which often means some people are going to loose their jobs. But guess what? That's life and it's necessary.

See some people get into business knowing how to do something very well. Unfortunately, they do not know how to manage finances or put together a business model. So they expand too quickly, or they are woefully ineffiecient. In the end they end up over their head. So they either take venture capital or they go out of business.

If they go out of business...everyone loses.

However, by re-organizing they have a shot at survival. Someone with experience or expertise at making a business operate comes in and sets them on the right path. This usually involves some pain and people getting their job cut (it has happened to me...twice). It sucks. But guess what? More often than not jobs are saved, maybe not yours or mine...but some jobs are saved.

Furthermore, now that a company has expertise and a good business model and finance operations...they may actually grow and create more jobs than they lost.

Sometimes, a company cannot be saved. So what are the owners or venture capitalists suppossed to do? Keep throwing money at a pit which has shown it cannot compete? "Hey Joe Soptic...your steelplant makes an inferior product and your plant is costing money. But you seem like an alright guy, and several years in the future a series of unrelated tragic events is going to leave your wife first out of a job...then she's going to get cancer and die. So here's what we're going to do: we're going to keep paying you to make a product that we cannot sell at a reasonable price. We're just going to let you suckle off our teet. Now I know Tom in another state is expanding his operations and could use the equipment of your plant and we could divide the assets to people who are actually expanding. But you need the money. Who cares that the previous owners sucked at life and running their family's company? That's not your problem." This is in no way, the way to run a company...nor a country.

The sad fact is there are just some companies that underperform and need to be closed to make room for other companies to grow. But reason, logic and rationality do not make for good human drama...and unfortunately good human drama appears to be what many ppl want. Just look at reality TV.

But it is a grim reality that things like Bain capital are necessary. And considering that administrations (both Republican and Democrat) squander revenue to increase political power bases in good times...so now in a bad time we don't have it...it is time to make some painful decisions in regard to the public sector and cull some of the sick and anemic government programs.

But no community organizer is going to effectively do this.


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Response to - The 2012 Debate & Election - Sep. 28th, 2012 @ 02:25 PM Reply

At 9/27/12 07:56 PM, 24901miles wrote:
That's interesting, I don't know any Mormons. The people I know who are religious are all buffoons, and the geniuses I know are atheists.

Ironic. all atheists I know are total douchebags and self centered pricks who grossly overvalue their own existence and intellect. but I suppose it's all a matter of perspective.


Romney spent two semesters at Yale and avoided the Draft then. He subsequently avoiding the Draft by going to France as a missionary, completely skipping out on the things that his generation experienced during the Vietnam War Era (death in Vietnam against their will, large scale protests around the United States).

your rose tinted glasses are such a deep shade of red I'm amazed you can even see out of them. so basically, because he went to college and then went to spread his faith, he's a draft dodger. where the hell were you when Bill Clinton was getting elected? I can only imagine you were cheering him on... heh.


He spent his late teens and early 20s in good company on a peaceful retreat in France where his objective was to go door-to-door convincing home owners to convert to his religion, while thousands of Americans his age were dying in combat.

you sicken me.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.