How did religion affect humanity?

[Jmayer20]

Lets go under the scenario that all religious beliefs in the past and now are all wrong. In that scenario do you believe that these religions had any positive influence on humanity? Please explain.

[naronic]

At 9/15/12 10:46 AM, Jmayer20 wrote: Lets go under the scenario that all religious beliefs in the past and now are all wrong. In that scenario do you believe that these religions had any positive influence on humanity? Please explain.

They had and still have no negative or positive effects. Negative human traits such as, power hunger, greed, jealousy, ignorance, and resentment, had negative influences on humanity.

Guess which trait you're using right now to judge religion.

[Jmayer20]

At 9/15/12 11:25 AM, naronic wrote: They had and still have no negative or positive effects. Negative human traits such as, power hunger, greed, jealousy, ignorance, and resentment, had negative influences on humanity.

You listed ignorance as being one of the causes. But in this scenario all the religions are wrong so in that case wouldn't religion be creating ignorance and since you said ignorance had negative influences on humanity that means according to what you said that religion has negative influences on humanity.

[The-Great-One]

What it all tends to boil down to is an afterlife aspect. Where will you be going when you die and with that fear is instilled among those who have religion. Religion also has a power aspect to it, of wanting to be in places where it shouldn't be as granted by the rules and customs set within the place it is at.

[MatthewF]

Good ol' jingostic fool Pat Condell.....

[Ravariel]

Religion, in general, has been the single most important force for good in the world. It is the reason we have the society we have today, and is the catalyst for peaceful coexistence and international relations. Religion is an OVERWHELMINGLY positive thing. We are outgrowing much of it, and the more extreme versions of it have almost always been bad, but for the most part those have been on the fringes.

We hear about all of the horrors that religion has caused: The Inquisition (more about political power than religion), the Crusades (about land, notsomuch religion), etc because those are singularly remarkable events in our history. The reverse is a much more ubiquitous story. That of churches protecting people from corrupt governments, feeding the hungry, raising millions from poverty and servitude into free societies with agency and honor. Religion gave order to the anarchy of tribal/nomadic society, brought people together in large groups that built our first cities and countries and important cultures.

Religion was the inspiration for most of the art and music we now consider the most beautiful ever created. It taught the illiterate and the uneducated how to live well. Religion is the only reason we are not still a bunch of nomadic hunter-gatherer tribes.

People who know me may be shocked to hear me give religion such praise, but history is clear: religion is the foundation for our very concept of what culture and society are.

[SimCorder]

At 9/17/12 12:05 AM, Ravariel wrote: Religion, in general, has been the single most important force for good in the world. It is the reason we have the society we have today, and is the catalyst for peaceful coexistence and international relations. Religion is an OVERWHELMINGLY positive thing. We are outgrowing much of it, and the more extreme versions of it have almost always been bad, but for the most part those have been on the fringes.

We hear about all of the horrors that religion has caused: The Inquisition (more about political power than religion), the Crusades (about land, notsomuch religion), etc because those are singularly remarkable events in our history. The reverse is a much more ubiquitous story. That of churches protecting people from corrupt governments, feeding the hungry, raising millions from poverty and servitude into free societies with agency and honor. Religion gave order to the anarchy of tribal/nomadic society, brought people together in large groups that built our first cities and countries and important cultures.

Religion was the inspiration for most of the art and music we now consider the most beautiful ever created. It taught the illiterate and the uneducated how to live well. Religion is the only reason we are not still a bunch of nomadic hunter-gatherer tribes.

I am shocked, mostly because I have never realized that religion was such an important building stone in today's morals.
The only issue with it is the darn extremists who take it way too far.

As for the topic at hand, my argument was kinda shot down by the guy I quoted

[Halberd]

I tried to type up my own thoughts on this topic but I'm very bad at articulating so instead I got something from Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_religions#Neolithic_
religions

So religion may or may not have been a necessary factor back then. I can't say with certainty if this is true but its still an interesting idea maybe

[Halberd]

double-post

in general I think a lot of things we consider bad such as conflict, religion and greed may have been necessary to get us where we are today

without conflict would we really be as advanced as we are now?

without conflict would we even be evolved to the state we are in today?

[Camarohusky]

At 9/17/12 09:22 PM, Halberd wrote: without conflict would we really be as advanced as we are now?

As beings evolved from defenseless scavengers, conflict traits have prominently survived. In a world of few resources and safe places, those with the agressive tendencies survived. As such our brains evolved to learn from our conflicts and failures. So, in an evolutionary sense, we are bred not only to cause conflict, but to extraordinarily prosper from it.

without conflict would we even be evolved to the state we are in today?

Doubtful. As Aristophanes said: "It is from their foes, not their friends, that cities learn the lesson of building high walls."

[DragonPunch]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_V4w18ZWaPas/SWhEe4akG_I/AAAAAAAADT M/74bMlVX_7L0/s400/Religion+War+Cartoon+02.jpg

No words necessary.

[DragonPunch]

At 9/17/12 12:05 AM, Ravariel wrote: Religion, in general, has been the single most important force for good in the world. It is the reason we have the society we have today, and is the catalyst for peaceful coexistence and international relations. Religion is an OVERWHELMINGLY positive thing. We are outgrowing much of it, and the more extreme versions of it have almost always been bad, but for the most part those have been on the fringes.

We hear about all of the horrors that religion has caused: The Inquisition (more about political power than religion), the Crusades (about land, notsomuch religion), etc because those are singularly remarkable events in our history. The reverse is a much more ubiquitous story. That of churches protecting people from corrupt governments, feeding the hungry, raising millions from poverty and servitude into free societies with agency and honor. Religion gave order to the anarchy of tribal/nomadic society, brought people together in large groups that built our first cities and countries and important cultures.

Religion was the inspiration for most of the art and music we now consider the most beautiful ever created. It taught the illiterate and the uneducated how to live well. Religion is the only reason we are not still a bunch of nomadic hunter-gatherer tribes.

People who know me may be shocked to hear me give religion such praise, but history is clear: religion is the foundation for our very concept of what culture and society are.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_V4w18ZWaPas/SWhEe4akG_I/AAAAAAAADT M/74bMlVX_7L0/s400/Religion+War+Cartoon+02.jpg

Religion has caused war on NUMEROUS occasions. You can't simply praise religion as much as you did without realizing that religious people have tried to halt scientific development all because of their "ethics". I bet we could have cured cancer by now had it not been for overzealous extremists. This is why religion is becoming outdated because these extremists do things that halt people's enjoyment of life.

Take evangelicals for example (just that word pisses me off). In a town that happens to be the birthplace of Michelle Bachman (No wonder she's a crazy bitch), there was a case of a gay teen committing suicide because of religious extremists. Case rested.

[orangebomb]

I do believe religion has been a double-edged sword historically. It has been noted and accepted that religion is a foundation for rules and law in general, and if you take away the God part, you realize how uncanny the law are compared to say the Ten Commandments. They have also been the inspiration for feeding and supporting the poor, help teach the illterate and the uneducated people to live well, and has also been the inspiration for much of the classical music from Bach, Beethoven and so on, which was enjoyed for a long time.

Now with that said however, we cannot ignore that religion does play a big part into conflicts in the past and present, particularly with the Crusades, the Inquisition and what goes on between Israel and the most of their neighbors. Now to be fair, there is more to it than just religion itself that is the cause of wars of the past, {i.e land, money, etc.} but to downplay the religious aspect in war is simply ignorant. Not to mention the Dark Ages, which lasted nearly 1,000 years in Europe which stiflied any type of human advancement, until Charlemange took over the HRE, which encouraged said advancement in education and general human standards at the time.

[Camarohusky]

(Picture Diwght Schrute owning a little high school girl)

At 9/18/12 09:01 AM, HiryuGouki wrote: Religion has caused war on NUMEROUS occasions.

FALSE. Human nature drives all military conflict. Religion has merely been a tool through which those in power warp and rape to trick the masses into fighting for them.

You can't simply praise religion as much as you did without realizing that religious people have tried to halt scientific development all because of their "ethics".

FALSE. Those is power are afraid of losing power. The leaders recognizing a possible hole in their chokehold on the populace, used religion as a legitimizing mthod to put them down.

I bet we could have cured cancer by now had it not been for overzealous extremists.

FALSE. Cancer hasn't even been truly understood for 100 years and still is not understood. It is extremely unlikely that by taking out a tool through which human nature expresses itself that we, humans, would have magically understood, and thus cured, cancer.

This is why religion is becoming outdated because these extremists do things that halt people's enjoyment of life.

FALSE. Religion serves to enhance how billions fo people enjoy their lives.

Take evangelicals for example (just that word pisses me off). In a town that happens to be the birthplace of Michelle Bachman (No wonder she's a crazy bitch), there was a case of a gay teen committing suicide because of religious extremists. Case rested.

FALSE. One example that is clearly an example of irrationality and fear, not religion, is hardly enough to rest a case against religion.

[Brae]

Religion originally began as a combination of law and psychiatry. You can't have a healthy, successful, thriving society if people murder, steal, covet, and adulter all the time, and if nobody believes in anything bigger than himself. So religion taught people to live a certain way that was healthy for them and good for society as a whole. Because back in biblical times, logic and force weren't enough to get everyone to do what was best for society. But if you threw in religion, that plus logic and force were usually enough to make for an orderly society. The last few who insisted on being deviants could be killed or locked up.

It's very shortsighted to focus only on the killing and oppression that's been done in the name of religion (very often by non-religious, faithless individuals or groups just using religion to control the masses) when so much good has also been done in the name of religion. For every zealous murdering fanatic, there are ten people giving to charity, building homes for the homeless, and living upstanding lives because they're people of faith. But you don't hear about them on the news. As a result, it's become very in fashion to declare religion as something only stupid people do. Smart people know right from wrong without being told that God said so, while stupid people who are religious can be made to do all kinds of crazy things, so all smart people are atheists, right? I don't know about that. It's natural, healthy, and smart to recognize that there are things bigger than we are, that we don't understand. Knowing our place as limited creatures helps put our lives in perspective and keep us psychologically healthy. If there's nothing more important than ourselves in our own bubble, than we're god, and that makes for a crazily unhealthy life.

Do we really need religion today? Maybe not. Most people live decent lives, obey the law, and do the right thing because they don't want to go to jail, don't want people to think bad things about them, just want to look and feel good about themselves. A few might even just plain be good people at heart. We probably don't need the fear of God and God's rules to make most people behave reasonably today. But so many religious people do so much good, solely due to their faith.

[Sense-Offender]

It had its use in the past, but I don't think we need it anymore.

[Camarohusky]

At 9/18/12 12:29 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: It had its use in the past, but I don't think we need it anymore.

So long as humans have emotion and a need for things beyond the material, religion will have a use.

[Jmayer20]

If you look back you see that alot of things people give religion credit for actually came from originally great philosophers. The religions just simply thought this sounded like a good idea and added it to there scripture. Also I would like to point out we already have a moral compass of our own.

Example in the bible there are many inconsistencies so even if you are religious you have to pick and choice which parts are right and which parts are wrong. That requires your own sense of morality so you didn't NEED this religious scripture in the first place to define what is right and what is wrong.

As Camarohusky said religion can just as easily be used to as a tool for war as it can be for peace. So the idea that it is our mean sense of morality is ridiculous. After all atheists have a moral code to.

[Camarohusky]

At 9/18/12 05:00 PM, Jmayer20 wrote: So the idea that it is our mean sense of morality is ridiculous. After all atheists have a moral code to.

There are some aspects of our modern morality that can trace its roots to religion, but that's not whay I say religion has been important.

It's the community, the outlet, the social structure that highly encourages doing good. We all know the power of group think, no thing has provided more positive group think, even with many of the negative emotions that came with it, than religion.

[DragonPunch]

There are some aspects of our modern morality that can trace its roots to religion, but that's not whay I say religion has been important.

It's the community, the outlet, the social structure that highly encourages doing good. We all know the power of group think, no thing has provided more positive group think, even with many of the negative emotions that came with it, than religion.

This was absolutely hilarious! We all KNOW religion was just a way to control others, right? Seriously...God wasn't even a God of peace in the beginning, and yet people think he's full of love and compassion. Yahweh was a god of war, and people, especially the Catholics used this to their advantage to control the masses. Religion may have given us things like the Sistine Chapel, but in my view, it's done more harm than good. Look at the Crusades, and all of the overzealous extremists that have committed violent crimes over the years. THIS is why religion needs to be BANNED. Religion needs to die because it does not fit into our modern society anymore. It may have worked back in ancient times, but I see it causing nothing but harm in the near future.

[MatthewF]

At 9/18/12 11:01 AM, orangebomb wrote: I do believe religion has been a double-edged sword historically. It has been noted and accepted that religion is a foundation : for rules and law in general, and if you take away the God part, you realize how uncanny the law are compared to say the
Ten Commandments.

Of course you would have to take away over half.......and even then they are simple principles an 8 year old could come up with

[DragonPunch]

At 9/18/12 11:41 AM, Camarohusky wrote: (Picture Diwght Schrute owning a little high school girl)

At 9/18/12 09:01 AM, HiryuGouki wrote: Religion has caused war on NUMEROUS occasions.

FALSE. Human nature drives all military conflict. Religion has merely been a tool through which those in power warp and rape to trick the masses into fighting for them.

Still...Remember the Crusades? It was justified by millions as to capture the Holy City, Jerusalem by royalty in Europe to wage war against Muslims, without any apparent aggression from the Muslim side. Again, using the word of God, even if human nature demands warfare is inexcusable and should be punished. Religious beliefs, human nature, etc, is not an excuse for senseless violence.

FALSE. Those is power are afraid of losing power. The leaders recognizing a possible hole in their chokehold on the populace, used religion as a legitimizing mthod to put them down.

Then perhaps they should lose ALL of their influence to let US live how we want instead of how the Church or the Bible say to live. Some of us are a bit SMARTER than religious nutjobs and realize that there are more things worth fighting for than some imaginary deity in the sky.

FALSE. Religion serves to enhance how billions fo people enjoy their lives.

And yet, a lot of people do not even KNOW how to practice their religion. Society changes, and religion has to as well. You CANNOT use the Word of God to justify hatred and bigotry, which by the way, Jesus said NOT to do. Remember the Catholics? They say they do not support pedophiles, and yet, what about their priests and bishops and so on? They engage in illegal sexual activity A LOT, and there is evidence to support this. Just go into Google and look up news stories of sexual abuse towards children by Catholic priests. The amount of stories alone is completely vomit inducing and unacceptable. We cannot deny ourselves some of our most basic needs simply because a Holy Book says you have to. Sex is a basic, BASIC need, and so is love and companionship.

FALSE. One example that is clearly an example of irrationality and fear, not religion, is hardly enough to rest a case against religion.

Even so, these people use God as an excuse to explain their fears and irrational behaviors. Unacceptable. Society cannot tolerate overzealous extremists who claim to be holy, but instead use God as an excuse to hate others. It's a combination of both fear and religious teachings, which have been falsified for hundreds of years to serve as a mechanism to control others.

[DragonPunch]

It's the community, the outlet, the social structure that highly encourages doing good. We all know the power of group think, no thing has provided more positive group think, even with many of the negative emotions that came with it, than religion.

If by that you mean a community of bigots, racists, pedophiles and criminals who say "God told me to" when they get caught red-handed doing something clearly AGAINST their own religious code. There may be a lot of people who try to live their lives the way the religion says to, but let's face it. People have used religion as an excuse to commit violent crimes in the past, and to be honest, it's time for religion to go. It's had its fun, and yes, it has given us a basic moral code that has now been programmed, in a sense into the human logic, and that's fine. But now, the way people practice it today makes me wonder whether or not religion is even valid anymore.

[Saen]

I believe religion is best interpreted with a historical viewpoint. Just as how most modern citizens view Greek and Roman mythology with an open mind. All the myths aren't actual events that took place, but are embedded with myths, beautiful poetry, or magnificent glorification of people and war.

Fundamentalism fueling group worship is the dark side of religion and faith. It's the root of all conflict and wars carried out by religion. Would there be any religious conflict in the world if no one interpreted the Bible, Quran, or any religious text literally?

That's my beef with religion, fundamentalism and group worship.

[Camarohusky]

At 9/25/12 03:33 PM, HiryuGouki wrote: If by that you mean a community of bigots, racists, pedophiles and criminals who say "God told me to" when they get caught red-handed doing something clearly AGAINST their own religious code.

So you can label an entire group (some 6 billion) base don the actions of a few? So you're saying all Americans are selfish warmongering idiots like Bush?

The vast vast VAST majority of religious folk not only do not do any of what you said, but dislike those who do.

People have used religion as an excuse to commit violent crimes in the past,

You're right. They use it as an EXCUSE. Webster's defines 'excuse' as justification. In otherwords, the folk you speak of use religion to retroactively legitimize ideas they already had. If religion weren't there they'd find some other thing, like Darwinism, to support their fucked up ideals. Are you saying we should abandon Darwinism because in the late 19th Century it was the impetus in massive amounts of racism, oppression, and subjugation?

and to be honest, it's time for religion to go. It's had its fun, and yes, it has given us a basic moral code that has now been programmed, in a sense into the human logic, and that's fine.

You miss so much about religion. It provides a place with a positive attitude for people to gather together. It provides a strong forum for positive ideas to go forward. It provides a mental and emotional foundation upon which the intelligence and fortitude necessary to run a modern society must rest for a large portion of society. If you think religion is just about morals, you're seriously missing the forest through the trees.

[DragonPunch]

You miss so much about religion. It provides a place with a positive attitude for people to gather together. It provides a strong forum for positive ideas to go forward. It provides a mental and emotional foundation upon which the intelligence and fortitude necessary to run a modern society must rest for a large portion of society. If you think religion is just about morals, you're seriously missing the forest through the trees.

I reject religion out of common sense, and using my brain and learning on my own terms rather than just having "God did it" as an answer for everything. I also reject religion because of its members, more specifically here in the United States. The majority of bigoted views comes from religious organizations, right? I may have been overreacting by saying it should be gone completely, but I think we need to stop letting religion, sexuality, race, etc from letting us judge others. Not only that, but A LOT of religious folk tend to hide behind the shield of "God made me do it" rather than just taking responsibility. I agree that they'd hide behind other things like Darwinism too, and you made a good point.

Look, my main problem with religion is primarily in the government. It is my FIRM belief that government should not be enforcing religious dogma upon the people, and I feel that religious freedom should be available to all, even if I think that the community is just talking to their imaginary friends in the sky. Let's not forget that Catholic Priests are INFAMOUS for sexual abuse towards children, which is another qualm I have with major religious organizations. There are loads of things as well such as misogyny towards women's rights, bigotry towards the LGBT community (I have friends who are gay, and religious views on gays concern me greatly, as I worry for their safety), and sometimes, in the worst of cases, racism. I agree that basing my opinions on a few is not wise, but sometimes, I question the whole community based on those few, especially when an entire town creates an anti-gay climate, solely based on a misinterpreted Bible verse from Leviticus.

Let's not forget that this article states that this is the FIRST time someone like this has been convicted of sexual abuse towards minors.

It's kinda hard to take religious folk seriously when stuff like this happens.

[Camarohusky]

At 9/27/12 12:03 AM, HiryuGouki wrote: I reject religion out of common sense, and using my brain and learning on my own terms rather than just having "God did it" as an answer for everything.

And that's fien for you. However, just because you don't find personal fulfillment from religion doesn't mean that everyone else doesn't either. Religion provides people with a community, a tradition, an identity, as well as the feeling of importance in our lonely universe, as well as a comforting feel about the dangers and unkowns in life. There is a lot about religion that isn't logical, I'll concede that any day. But, as I see it, religion isn't a logical construction. It is an emotional one. Therefore using logic to debunk it is like using emotions to solve a math equation.

The majority of bigoted views comes from religious organizations, right?

I would first dispute that religion is the source of this bigotry. There are numerous sects, churches and religions that openly disfavor such views and members that espouse them. Religious doctrine, being based in the past, tends to be conservative. Relics of past bigotry that was common seeped into the doctrine and makes religions a place where people who harbor such views can find legitimacy for their views. Again, this is the fault of the humans involved, not the religions themselves or religion as a whole.

I may have been overreacting by saying it should be gone completely, but I think we need to stop letting religion, sexuality, race, etc from letting us judge others.

Humans, as the descendants of scavengers who were not at the top of the food chain are geared toward prejudging things. In our evolutionary past being cautious about our surroundings, or another group of humans, or another animal often meant the difference between life and death.

I do admit that religion provides a conduit for such prejudice, but the prejudice itself hardly originates from religion.

Look, my main problem with religion is primarily in the government. It is my FIRM belief that government should not be enforcing religious dogma upon the people, and I feel that religious freedom should be available to all

I 100% agree. Government and religion should be wholly separate.

There are loads of things as well such as misogyny towards women's rights, bigotry towards the LGBT community (I have friends who are gay, and religious views on gays concern me greatly, as I worry for their safety), and sometimes, in the worst of cases, racism.

Religious doctrines were made in the past around the prejudices that preceded religion. The preexisting prejudices of the past were ensrhined in the text. The current members selectively choose which of those to follow based on their own prejudices.

I agree that basing my opinions on a few is not wise, but sometimes, I question the whole community based on those few, especially when an entire town creates an anti-gay climate, solely based on a misinterpreted Bible verse from Leviticus.

Again, I would say that the town's bigotry toward gays did not come from the religion, but from opinions and culture the people already had.

Let's not forget that this article states that this is the FIRST time someone like this has been convicted of sexual abuse towards minors.

Any situation where you have men alone with children there will be cases of sex abuse. The Catholic Church is especially vulnerable for this because of the pure amount of men who are alone with children and the power those men have.

In close, my point is that religion is like a butcher knife or a car. When used properly they can prepare food to feed, and provide transportation. They can be a extreme value and benefit not only to the user but to all around them. When used improperly both can cause extreme harm and severe pain. Religion is the same way. When in the hearts of those who would do good, religion enriches the community, gives meaning, and provides an outlets and a guide for good. When in the heart of those who wish to do evil or selfish deeds, religion can cause extreme harm. Most people intend to do well. They have little bits and pieces of bad thoughts sprinkled in their generally good wishes. We all are like this. Through ignorance and weak leadership the evil spots, being of great potency, are easy to exploit. This does not make religion bad, it makes it the victim. It is twisted and warped by those who have secular motives, and those who are vulnerable and weak follow because they think they are doing right, unaware or unwilling to admit that what they are doing is actually wrong.

[Baby-Bottle-Bob]

It made people have hope and confedence even if it was in something that don't exist. thats way most successful athletes are religious because you have less pressure on yourself to win when you believe a higher power got your back

[googletoper]

At 9/18/12 12:00 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 9/17/12 09:22 PM, Halberd wrote: without conflict would we really be as advanced as we are now?

As beings evolved from defenseless scavengers, conflict traits have prominently survived. In a world of few resources and safe places, those with the agressive tendencies survived. As such our brains evolved to learn from our conflicts and failures. So, in an evolutionary sense, we are bred not only to cause conflict, but to extraordinarily prosper from it.

without conflict would we even be evolved to the state we are in today?

Doubtful. As Aristophanes said: "It is from their foes, not their friends, that cities learn the lesson of building high walls."

That's false. Indians that were here usually hunted dailey. There's a balence to it but more people mean a higher quantity requirements food water shelter but emotions are random basicly and that's the thing that larger bodys of population have to have more control over. If not, there would be a higher chance of conflict if not watched and set back
Idk if that coincides with the quote "checks and balences" but I bet its relivant! Hahaha!