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Audio Scouting

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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 15th, 2012 @ 11:02 AM

At 9/15/12 10:01 AM, BB-7 wrote: I think this is a bad idea because it would be just as bad as the art portal. Someone could scout someone eles with stolen audio, and both of them would be in trouble.

Personally I wish the audio portal would rather be under a legal Marxist-Leninist system; having the audio mods know what to do. I don't know what stolen do I?

There is really nothing to worry about. Audio moderators don't have special training to recognise what's stolen and what's not. Normal users can do it too and audio moderators can make just as many mistakes as normal users. If it happens to be the case that one person gets scouted and he submits stolen work, then eventually he'll get found out by people who will report him to moderators.

Maybe this system isn't as 'safe' as the old system, but let's face it. It's much more efficient. And other than the tremendous amount of workload that the old system harboured, it had another disadvantage that if someone posted a legitimate track as his first track and then a stolen track after being approved, we'd have no way of knowing and even if someone did report him/her to us we wouldn't be able to delete or ban. At least now we have those tools.


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 15th, 2012 @ 12:10 PM

At 9/15/12 10:02 AM, BB-7 wrote: Also I just realized that were making music here and not art. Arts just a thin image with lines colors and shapes. And music is layers of beats and progressions.

Are you trolling?


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 15th, 2012 @ 12:26 PM

At 9/15/12 11:02 AM, Step wrote: Audio moderators don't have special training to recognise what's stolen and what's not. Normal users can do it too and audio moderators can make just as many mistakes as normal users.

But, I feel that moderators would put a bit more time and effort into investigating whether or not something is stolen.

If some users don't recognize something as stolen, and we scout that user, it might end up buried under hundreds or thousands of other submissions (perpetuating a problem that previously existed) and will only be discovered by the if the track gets posted in the Clean-up thread.

What I would like to see is a "Report stolen audio" feature for unscouted users - or, maybe, for every user. Rather than relying on the Clean-up thread, the 'report' system would bring flagged audio to the attention of the mods. And perhaps even 'hide' that user or submission from the unscouted list until a mod takes action.

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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 15th, 2012 @ 12:35 PM

At 9/15/12 12:26 PM, RampantMusik wrote: If some users don't recognize something as stolen, and we scout that user

Are you outlining a scenario in which a regular user scouts a person who happens to have stolen audio? I would think that this system will actually help to prevent that, because hopefully if you're scouting someone you've done enough digging on them to know that they're legit and won't jeopardize your good standing.


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 15th, 2012 @ 12:40 PM

At 9/15/12 12:35 PM, SuperBastard wrote:
At 9/15/12 12:26 PM, RampantMusik wrote: If some users don't recognize something as stolen, and we scout that user
Are you outlining a scenario in which a regular user scouts a person who happens to have stolen audio? I would think that this system will actually help to prevent that, because hopefully if you're scouting someone you've done enough digging on them to know that they're legit and won't jeopardize your good standing.

There are millions of songs in the world. Are you trying to tell me that you can recognize every single obscure, potentially stolen track?

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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 15th, 2012 @ 01:02 PM

At 9/15/12 10:00 AM, Buoy wrote: Why in the fuck do people feel that they have to turn this

"If you invite a bunch of blatant rule breakers, or people simply submitting complete shit, the moderators can not only ban you, they can prune your membership."

into this?

"If you scout one person and that person breaks a rule later, you will automatically be banned"

Why? What's the point?

The point is it's up to moderators to decide. When an individual can make that call under their discretion, I'm not having it. Where's the solid line? What if I saw potential and scouted some guy who turns around and causes the greatest legal cluster-fuck ever seen on newgrounds? Do you think they're going to just overlook me because it was a one-time incident? Fuck no I'm probably going to get burned faster than a steer's ass at a rodeo show.

That's the point.


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 15th, 2012 @ 01:33 PM

At 9/15/12 12:40 PM, RampantMusik wrote: There are millions of songs in the world. Are you trying to tell me that you can recognize every single obscure, potentially stolen track?

Haha, no, but if I was going to scout someone I'd make sure I did my best to rule out the possibility.


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 15th, 2012 @ 01:49 PM

At 9/15/12 01:02 PM, Cross666 wrote: The point is it's up to moderators to decide. When an individual can make that call under their discretion, I'm not having it. Where's the solid line? What if I saw potential and scouted some guy who turns around and causes the greatest legal cluster-fuck ever seen on newgrounds? Do you think they're going to just overlook me because it was a one-time incident? Fuck no I'm probably going to get burned faster than a steer's ass at a rodeo show.

That's the point.

Since when are we all heartless villains? Just curious.

If such a thing were to happen, we'd more likely unscout the person you scouted, and leave you be unless it was evident that you were scouting bad apples on purpose or just on a whim.


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 15th, 2012 @ 02:35 PM

At 9/15/12 01:49 PM, Back-From-Purgatory wrote: Since when are we all heartless villains? Just curious.

If such a thing were to happen, we'd more likely unscout the person you scouted, and leave you be unless it was evident that you were scouting bad apples on purpose or just on a whim.

I thought that this was the main intent of the system so that if someone was just scouting a TON of bad artist/rule breakers then they can point to you as the main one causing all these bad apple to enter into the system.

But I honestly don't see what the whole worry is with this system. If you get unscouted, just find someone to scout you again and you'll have nothing to worry about (unless you scout bad apples again, then this process might become repetitive to you).

But that does raise another question for me:

Let's say someone was scouted a total of five times, and after that time they found themselves being unscouted again due to trying to scout a ton of bad artist... Is there any measures against or cut off lines to how many times you can be scouted? Or is it no measures/indefinite at this point?

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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 15th, 2012 @ 02:39 PM

At 9/15/12 01:02 PM, Cross666 wrote: The point is it's up to moderators to decide. When an individual can make that call under their discretion, I'm not having it. Where's the solid line? What if I saw potential and scouted some guy who turns around and causes the greatest legal cluster-fuck ever seen on newgrounds? Do you think they're going to just overlook me because it was a one-time incident? Fuck no I'm probably going to get burned faster than a steer's ass at a rodeo show.

If you do not want to do the pity scouting... then what's the point of whining about it?

For my part, I make sure the newbies' submissions is clear of things such as Comparison (95% successful): says a female/group vocals submitted by a male? Or audio submission date contrast with the downloaded file's date? Audio Quality/Arrangement/Mastering (80% successful): applies to MIDI rip, Module file rip, sampling. Description (60% successful): people like to tell other what they submit. Title Checking (30% successful): Won't hurt to Google the suspicious name, right?

The hard part, is to find the original source. Tags, keywords and queries help here.


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 15th, 2012 @ 02:52 PM

This thread seems to be degenerating rapidly.

I have just one last thing to say. If you're worried about the people you scouted getting in trouble, don't scout anyone. You had no real responsibility in this field before, and now that you have the option to take responsibility you're complaining about how it would be difficult if you tried.


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 15th, 2012 @ 02:53 PM

At 9/15/12 02:35 PM, zelazon wrote: Let's say someone was scouted a total of five times, and after that time they found themselves being unscouted again due to trying to scout a ton of bad artist... Is there any measures against or cut off lines to how many times you can be scouted? Or is it no measures/indefinite at this point?

We have measures to prevent people from constantly scouting rule breaking artists, yes.

I can't see us using it very often though, save for groups of trolls that are scouting each other.


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 15th, 2012 @ 03:07 PM

At 9/15/12 01:02 PM, Cross666 wrote: What if I saw potential and scouted some guy who turns around and causes the greatest legal cluster-fuck ever seen on newgrounds?

Yes, what if that happened.

lol.


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 15th, 2012 @ 03:38 PM

At 9/15/12 01:02 PM, Cross666 wrote: The point is it's up to moderators to decide. When an individual can make that call under their discretion, I'm not having it. Where's the solid line? What if I saw potential and scouted some guy who turns around and causes the greatest legal cluster-fuck ever seen on newgrounds? Do you think they're going to just overlook me because it was a one-time incident? Fuck no I'm probably going to get burned faster than a steer's ass at a rodeo show.

You do not appear to realize that the system is already broken. Every time I even look at the new submissions, someone has violated the rules by using copyrighted samples or outright stolen a song. It is no better with moderators and simply clogs everything up when a lot of stolen material tends to be reported by the users in the first place.

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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 15th, 2012 @ 05:45 PM

At 9/15/12 03:38 PM, Blackhole12 wrote: You do not appear to realize that the system is already broken. Every time I even look at the new submissions, someone has violated the rules by using copyrighted samples or outright stolen a song. It is no better with moderators and simply clogs everything up when a lot of stolen material tends to be reported by the users in the first place.

In all the years I've been here I somehow missed the system being broken. Yep. Totally feasible.

And I'm just saying I don't agree with the way this is being setup as is. A lot of you are missing the point, except for rampant. and Purgatory, don't deny it. You guys are pretty damn devious, I mean you are the one's responsible for letting all these copyright-infringing users submit audio in the first place. /joking :P


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 15th, 2012 @ 06:35 PM

At 9/15/12 05:45 PM, Cross666 wrote: And I'm just saying I don't agree with the way this is being setup as is. A lot of you are missing the point, except for rampant. and Purgatory, don't deny it. You guys are pretty damn devious, I mean you are the one's responsible for letting all these copyright-infringing users submit audio in the first place. /joking :P

Yeah, it's a real shame that we're now able to actually do something about all those copyright-infringing users.


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 15th, 2012 @ 06:59 PM

At 9/15/12 06:35 PM, Back-From-Purgatory wrote:
At 9/15/12 05:45 PM, Cross666 wrote: And I'm just saying I don't agree with the way this is being setup as is. A lot of you are missing the point, except for rampant. and Purgatory, don't deny it. You guys are pretty damn devious, I mean you are the one's responsible for letting all these copyright-infringing users submit audio in the first place. /joking :P
Yeah, it's a real shame that we're now able to actually do something about all those copyright-infringing users.

Hey I said I was joking, you guys are all good. Honestly I like the idea, but the way Psycho put it where it's a chain-effect (the culprit's scouted also being affected) disturbed me a bit. I personally want to scout people, but as is I don't feel comfortable doing so. We'll see I suppose.


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 15th, 2012 @ 07:13 PM

At 9/15/12 06:59 PM, Cross666 wrote:
At 9/15/12 06:35 PM, Back-From-Purgatory wrote:
At 9/15/12 05:45 PM, Cross666 wrote: And I'm just saying I don't agree with the way this is being setup as is. A lot of you are missing the point, except for rampant. and Purgatory, don't deny it. You guys are pretty damn devious, I mean you are the one's responsible for letting all these copyright-infringing users submit audio in the first place. /joking :P
Yeah, it's a real shame that we're now able to actually do something about all those copyright-infringing users.
Hey I said I was joking, you guys are all good. Honestly I like the idea, but the way Psycho put it where it's a chain-effect (the culprit's scouted also being affected) disturbed me a bit. I personally want to scout people, but as is I don't feel comfortable doing so. We'll see I suppose.

I know.

And again, you worry too much, I'm sure it'll be pretty easy to tell if someone was scouting bad apples intentionally or not... Unscouting the person you scouted will not unscout you... and even if it did, all that would mean is you'd have to take like 3 seconds to PM someone who knows you're a legit artist to scout you again. Being unscouted =/= being banned.

And as mentioned above, you're under no obligation to scout anyone, so if the idea of someone you scouted turning into a bad user frightens you... simply don't scout people.

There's no reason for us to unscout a legit artist because they got unlucky and scouted a soon to be thief.


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 15th, 2012 @ 07:21 PM

At 9/15/12 07:13 PM, Back-From-Purgatory wrote: I know.

And again, you worry too much, I'm sure it'll be pretty easy to tell if someone was scouting bad apples intentionally or not... Unscouting the person you scouted will not unscout you... and even if it did, all that would mean is you'd have to take like 3 seconds to PM someone who knows you're a legit artist to scout you again. Being unscouted =/= being banned.

And as mentioned above, you're under no obligation to scout anyone, so if the idea of someone you scouted turning into a bad user frightens you... simply don't scout people.

There's no reason for us to unscout a legit artist because they got unlucky and scouted a soon to be thief.

Exactly. The system isn't perfect but it sure as hell beats the old system in my opinion. Less workload for the mods, less waiting time for the musicians, no 'first-come first-serve' priority, mods now have power over scouted artists and submissions, and it's also a good way to get the community involved more.


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 16th, 2012 @ 01:46 AM

At 9/15/12 07:21 PM, Step wrote: Exactly. The system isn't perfect but it sure as hell beats the old system in my opinion. Less workload for the mods, less waiting time for the musicians, no 'first-come first-serve' priority, mods now have power over scouted artists and submissions, and it's also a good way to get the community involved more.

Mods already had just as much power as the people did, being a Mod for anything should be a big responsibility, and musicians could just send the users a PM, and with the improved collab system the community is just involved as it was.

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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 16th, 2012 @ 01:48 AM

I know that the old and new system have their pros and cons, but why not keep both to make up for each other?

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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 16th, 2012 @ 03:21 AM

At 9/16/12 01:48 AM, BB-7 wrote: I know that the old and new system have their pros and cons, but why not keep both to make up for each other?

There no point merging the old system with the new one because the old one simply did not work. In the old system some artists were waiting for months to simply be approved for their submissions and moderators had to work extremely hard to try to filter everyone's submissions. It simply isn't fair on anyone.

Yes, you could become unscouted and potentially banned if you decide to troll or derp around with the new system, but at least moderators and artists have to do less work now, and that in my opinion outweighs any cons of the new system.

And besides there's only one con, which is "if you decide to scout stupidly, we will unscout you and you'll have to wait until you get scouted again" which honestly is actually fair if you think about it.

SON OF A SOLAR SYSTEM!

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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 16th, 2012 @ 11:44 AM

At 9/16/12 01:46 AM, BB-7 wrote: Mods already had just as much power as the people did, being a Mod for anything should be a big responsibility, and musicians could just send the users a PM, and with the improved collab system the community is just involved as it was.

Why are you (and other) even talking on since you don't want to do the scouting?

If you are so good at managing the system. Why don't you shut the fuck up and take up the big responsibility? Instead of fucking around and pretend to know shits.

Jeez don't you ever fit the mods' shoes? They are voluntary in modding audio, not getting paid. With the amount of audio submissions per day, mods which are online have to work hard to approve everyone, that's explained why sometime the missed people for months.

Now having this scouting system is working much better. It's you who make different, not the systems. I'm with Wurfel-Waffles on this. Be careful at whom you may scout is you own responsibility. It's all about ID-101 like you, bro.


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 16th, 2012 @ 12:35 PM

Is it okay to scout someone who has only one submission? If not, doesn't that defeat the purpose of getting people scouted in sooner? Like in the art portal, it can take a few days to several years to achieve the minimum requirement of having four art submissions before approval. So if someone in audio portal takes several years to make a few songs, it can take them several years to get scouted too (if people are waiting for them to submit more songs).

I'm okay with songs taking longer to get scouted, because unscouted songs still get attention, but what number of submissions should we wait for them to have before we scout them?


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 16th, 2012 @ 12:51 PM

At 9/16/12 12:35 PM, Rational-Delirium wrote: I'm okay with songs taking longer to get scouted, because unscouted songs still get attention, but what number of submissions should we wait for them to have before we scout them?

That's up to you, you can scout them at 1, or you can wait til they have 50. It really doesn't matter, and really just comes down to personal preference.


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 17th, 2012 @ 01:10 PM

Great update, PG, I've been waiting for a system like this.

Question: will there be a list on the audio artists pages showing which users they've scouted?


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 17th, 2012 @ 01:31 PM

At 9/15/12 12:26 PM, RampantMusik wrote: What I would like to see is a "Report stolen audio" feature for unscouted users - or, maybe, for every user.

I second that notion.

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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 22nd, 2012 @ 11:50 AM

Someone on Reddit saw my work here on Newgrounds, and told me they scouted me. However, I'm still listed as unscouted, and I haven't gotten an Email. Is there any way for you guys to tell if there's been an error, or if the person just never actually scouted me?

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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 22nd, 2012 @ 12:27 PM

At 9/22/12 11:50 AM, ReverendHerby wrote: Someone on Reddit saw my work here on Newgrounds, and told me they scouted me. However, I'm still listed as unscouted, and I haven't gotten an Email. Is there any way for you guys to tell if there's been an error, or if the person just never actually scouted me?

They didn't scout you.


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Response to Audio Scouting Sep. 22nd, 2012 @ 01:13 PM

At 9/22/12 12:27 PM, Back-From-Purgatory wrote:
They didn't scout you.

That lying poop. =(