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"Gonna write his name on the ballet

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Gustavos
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"Gonna write his name on the ballet 2012-08-18 23:41:17 Reply

Now I'm sure many of you heard this expression or maybe even said it yourselves about a candidate for the 2012 elections whose name is not Mitt Romney. This is a powerful sentiment, because if you look at it realistically, it's the sacrifice of your vote, your only power as a citizen in the election, for your ideal candidate. And yes, your vote is sacrificed, not counted. Look at all the crap that would need to be done for Ron Paul supporters to even have their say in the election. Over 47 million people would have to join together to have their say. That's not the effort of one or two semi-cultist political movements, that's the work of almost one third of this country's still-voting populace. If he had that many people backing him during primaries, he would have been the guy running against Obama.

And yet, the option still stands theoretically. To give up your possibly well-thought-out vote in favor of a guy you still honestly believe was right for the job, but has next to no chance with or without your support. Let's say you supported a guy like this. Would you take the dive for them rather than whom you see as the lesser of two evils (Obama vs. Romney)? Is it patriotic to do so, or just impractical? Heck, would you consider this kind of thinking a flaw in the idea of a democratic republic?

I haven't been around to see many elections in my life, but I wonder how many times this has come up in the past. The fraction of my generation that cares enough to vote has people who will opt out for somebody they would give one of their rights as a citizen for: the right to vote.

Note: This topic mentions Ron Paul but is NOT about whether or not you supported/resent him. He is merely the best current example of a candidate whose voters still believe strongly enough that they'll submit written ballots in their name after they've been knocked out of the running.
Second note: Yes, Ron Paul is old news. Again, this topic is not about any one person. But feel free to cite him as your example when stating your opinion, if you prefer.

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Warforger
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Response to "Gonna write his name on the ballet 2012-08-19 00:35:49 Reply

I see nothing wrong with voting for a candidate you agree with the most instead of a mainstream one if you're doing it to protest how the two parties don't represent you. I'm always baffled at how people are always so reluctant to do so because a guy they don't like might get elected, if you do it anyway then you're using your vote to protest the policies of the political parties so either the parties are forced to incorporate new positions and nominate someone more likeable to these groups or this 3rd party gains enough prominence to go mainstream itself (first scenario plays out more often, second hasn't produced any lasting parties perhaps other than the Republican party).

If you vote for someone you like even though you know they'll lose, then fine as long as you vote for them and get other people to do so. If the person you don't like does a bad job that just raises the popularity of the guy who you do like. If he does a good job then there's no need for the guy you like to be elected.


"If you don't mind smelling like peanut butter for two or three days, peanut butter is darn good shaving cream.
" - Barry Goldwater.

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TheMason
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Response to "Gonna write his name on the ballet 2012-08-19 09:32:32 Reply

People don't just vote ideologically but also strategically as well. So if you support a third party candidate whose ideas are more in line with your own...but you know he simply cannot win you look at the other candidates. Then you vote for the one candidate who is closer to your own position.

Now many bitch about the American two-party system and even that a presidential system encourages this lack of choice.

But au contraire...in parliamentarian systems coalition governments are formed out of the different parties who are closely aligned (mostly) and combine their representation in the legislature to build-up a majority. And then the legislators (not the ppl) elect a chief executive...who is most likely an establishment guy anyway.

In the US minority parties can have influence within the tents of either party. There are actually over 3,000 polities in the US when you count the different cities, counties and states. Each with different dominant political cultures and ideologies which then are elected to state and federal legislatures...which then causes these ideologies to find constiuencies with the umbrella parties.


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morefngdbs
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Response to "Gonna write his name on the ballet 2012-08-19 10:12:20 Reply

I agree , That if the only choices available are
1-good for nothing
2-absolutely no good
and there was someone else who I thought should have had a shot, I'd write that in, if I had that choice.
IF it is a real democratic election there should be a space where the voter can vote their choice.
THere is a possibility that a write in candidate could garner so much support, they may not win, but it could change how people look at that person ,come the next election.
WHich could possibly put them on the next election ballot, and garner them even more support or future win.


Those who have only the religious opinions of others in their head & worship them. Have no room for their own thoughts & no room to contemplate anyone elses ideas either-More

Camarohusky
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Response to "Gonna write his name on the ballet 2012-08-19 11:20:13 Reply

There are certain times where voting for a non-mainstream candidate will have no effect. However, when it can have an effect it's a clear, and simple, choice between voting who you like the most, or voting against the mainstream candidate you like the least.

People who vote non-mainstream in the latter situation need to have neon signs that proclaim this whenever they enter a political discussion, so when they complain about the persson they liked the least being elected, we can tell them off properly. If they choose to buck the system, they have no right to complain about how the system failed.

camobch0
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Response to "Gonna write his name on the ballet 2012-08-19 13:35:14 Reply

I see no problem with write-ins. I don't think it makes any tangible difference, and I would rather the vote go to Obama so he is just a little more likely to win than Romney. I just think that this is going to be a very important election, and it is smarter to vote for the lesser for who you think is better out of the two who actually have any chance of winning.


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Warforger
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Response to "Gonna write his name on the ballet 2012-08-19 14:08:05 Reply

At 8/19/12 09:32 AM, TheMason wrote: People don't just vote ideologically but also strategically as well. So if you support a third party candidate whose ideas are more in line with your own...but you know he simply cannot win you look at the other candidates. Then you vote for the one candidate who is closer to your own position.

Now many bitch about the American two-party system and even that a presidential system encourages this lack of choice.

But au contraire...in parliamentarian systems coalition governments are formed out of the different parties who are closely aligned (mostly) and combine their representation in the legislature to build-up a majority. And then the legislators (not the ppl) elect a chief executive...who is most likely an establishment guy anyway.

In the US minority parties can have influence within the tents of either party. There are actually over 3,000 polities in the US when you count the different cities, counties and states. Each with different dominant political cultures and ideologies which then are elected to state and federal legislatures...which then causes these ideologies to find constiuencies with the umbrella parties.

Well some people want a voting system where you choose 3 people in order of which one you want to win first to last, and if the 1st person loses the election all of his votes are transferred to the 2nd person, and if he loses it's transferred to the 3rd person etc.. The other 2 round system is also considered, but it seems it tends to have the opposite effect of giving 2 candidates everyone else hates (like in Egypt).


"If you don't mind smelling like peanut butter for two or three days, peanut butter is darn good shaving cream.
" - Barry Goldwater.

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Iron-Hampster
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Response to "Gonna write his name on the ballet 2012-08-19 14:09:53 Reply

I'm a little divided on what i'm gonna do in my next provincial elections, Liberals and NDP (socialists) are the mainstream candidates and all the liberals do is create private sector monopolies where it is against the law to compete with them, NDP will spend like mad, and then the conservatives are the usual morality police crusaders who care more about social issues (of which, I and everyone else hate their stance on) than economic issues.

so here are my options:

-vote libertarian, accomplish nothing
-write "I refuse to vote" on my ballot (they don't listen to people who don't show up, they assume you do it out of laziness not principle)
-write "I nominate me" and try to convince as many other people to do the same thing, for the lulz.


ya hear about the guy who put his condom on backwards? He went.

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