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Learning to argue effectively..

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TimeWarfare1
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Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 12:58 AM Reply

I know people here on this forum are quite good when it comes to debates, etc, so I hope you guys may be able to answer this question. Does being able to argue critically and effectively have anything to do with a person's vocabulary range, or is that entirely irrelevant? What factors determine how well a person can argue effectively? Any idea's? Any books I should look into? Thanks.

tox
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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 12:59 AM Reply

yes


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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 12:59 AM Reply

hippies are jewish

check and mate


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yurgenburgen
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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 01:03 AM Reply

At 8/1/12 12:58 AM, TimeWarfare1 wrote: Does being able to argue critically and effectively have anything to do with a person's vocabulary range, or is that entirely irrelevant?

Yes because it enables the debatee to argue their point efficiently and concisely.

What factors determine how well a person can argue effectively?

Not resorting to the use of logical fallacies.

Any idea's?

Correct use of apostraphes would be a start.

PMMurphy
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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 01:05 AM Reply

vocabulary, ehh, depends. I mean if you want to be better at debates you simply need to know the subject you are debating. Research and reading various things will help you. In return by researching and reading it will improve your vocabulary. So you don't exactly work on your vocabulary just to work on it, you get better as you educate yourself.

Strategies in debates and arguments are, don't give up a lot of information at once. Start out vague and keep your aces in the conversation to yourself. Try to lore people into points that you know how to counter and disprove, and when you do. BAM hit them with facts and make them disprove you. But never say everything, always have something to add to the table.

When you elaborate on points, slowly walk into the points. Start out abstract and as the discussion progresses get more technical and force the person in the debate with you to think more on the subject matter. Be organized and have a gameplan, by thinking ahead of time or having a gameplan of what you want to say and how you want to argue it will help when things don't go as planned. Then you can innovate when need be and change your strategy.

Try to continue the debate as long as you can, people will often repeat information. If they do, call them out on it. The goal is to get someone in a corner where they have nothing to say.

MatrixGravity
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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 01:06 AM Reply

At 8/1/12 01:03 AM, yurgenburgen wrote:
At 8/1/12 12:58 AM, TimeWarfare1 wrote: Does being able to argue critically and effectively have anything to do with a person's vocabulary range, or is that entirely irrelevant?
Yes because it enables the debatee to argue their point efficiently and concisely.

What factors determine how well a person can argue effectively?
Not resorting to the use of logical fallacies.

Any idea's?
Correct use of apostraphes would be a start.

Hm, any books you can recommend for this type of thing? Logical fallacies, or just being able to argue better? Does any book material exist on such a subject?

tox
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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 01:07 AM Reply

ALRIGHT, so down to business, unlike my previous post
arguing effectively is about understanding what the other person is going to talk about or argur about and hitting those bases before they can even really retaliate,
bring everything down to a pillar of (you cant argue with that) and start stacking those pilars on top of each other.

knowing the topic, and understanding it fully, thats really all its about
advanced words should remain with advanced people, you dont talk grade 12 literature to a grade 2 audience...
so you also need to think about who your talking to,

IF you are able to condense the sentences down with a simple word that means a lot of things, than that can mean in a debate (tournament style) that you an get more argument over the counter with less time used, meaning more and more argument, effectively winning the debate

if you want to listen to people, (not debating) go to the toast masters on youtube, and learn ho to speak
if you want to learn how to argu then go to school and join the debaters club and read more
if you want to learn far mre advanced words, start reading books that are more commonly featured in yale and harvard libraries, (from the site, since they list near every book they have in stock)


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PuRpLe-KusH
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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 01:13 AM Reply

I recommend taking a Philosophy 101 course, and speech course; those two will tech you a lot. They way in which a person says things is what I would say is about 50% of an augment, the other 50% is logic but can vary.

Argumenter used "Confusion" !

Arguee is confused !


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PMMurphy
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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 01:13 AM Reply

At 8/1/12 01:07 AM, tox wrote: if you want to learn far mre advanced words, start reading books that are more commonly featured in yale and harvard

Just throwing this out there, all because its yale or harvard doesn't exactly make it the best source. There are students from these universities who get internships for companies, and typically the students from the unknown "who heard of this college (not university college)" Are the strongest most intelligent students.

Yale, harvard all those names are simply names to help you get a job. People who attend these universities STILL have problems getting work after they get a degree and they are actually starting to sue the college.

If you want a good resource for information, go to MIT, Princeton, Cambridge, Cooper Union. These are the universities that in order to get in you have to be the real deal.

yurgenburgen
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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 01:20 AM Reply

At 8/1/12 01:06 AM, MatrixGravity wrote: Hm, any books you can recommend for this type of thing? Logical fallacies, or just being able to argue better? Does any book material exist on such a subject?

Probably but I don't know any. Just google "logical fallacies", learn what they are and avoid their usage.

tox
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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 01:20 AM Reply

At 8/1/12 01:13 AM, PMMurphy wrote:
At 8/1/12 01:07 AM, tox wrote: if you want to learn far mre advanced words, start reading books that are more commonly featured in yale and harvard
If you want a good resource for information, go to MIT, Princeton, Cambridge, Cooper Union. These are the universities that in order to get in you have to be the real deal.

thats cool, i would believe that,
even though i dont know of cooper union...

what is copper union?


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PMMurphy
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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 01:25 AM Reply

Cooper union is an Art / Engineering school based in NYC. Its been around since 1950 (approximately) and it it features a free full ride to every single student who attends. It is made and established to help sculpt and create the next generation of creative minds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooper_Union

for more information.

Its not as impressive as the other 3, but they cover other things.

MatrixGravity
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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 01:34 AM Reply

At 8/1/12 01:13 AM, PuRpLe-KusH wrote: I recommend taking a Philosophy 101 course, and speech course; those two will tech you a lot. They way in which a person says things is what I would say is about 50% of an augment, the other 50% is logic but can vary.

Argumenter used "Confusion" !

Arguee is confused !

Wait, studying Philosophy can help somebody argue more effectively? I thought Philosophy is like.. the study of life or something. Or am I wrong?

yurgenburgen
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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 01:42 AM Reply

At 8/1/12 01:34 AM, MatrixGravity wrote: Wait, studying Philosophy can help somebody argue more effectively? I thought Philosophy is like.. the study of life or something. Or am I wrong?

Reading + studying philosophy helps you understand abstract ideas and different kinds of thought, so if you later were to be arguing/debating with someone you'd be able to see their points from various angles and presumably destroy them.

PMMurphy
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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 01:44 AM Reply

At 8/1/12 01:42 AM, yurgenburgen wrote: Reading + studying philosophy helps you understand abstract ideas and different kinds of thought, so if you later were to be arguing/debating with someone you'd be able to see their points from various angles and presumably destroy them.

But you need to read the material on which you are debating. Even if you can spot various points of attacks if your logic isn't sound you cant direct the debate and take control of the conversation.

yurgenburgen
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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 01:46 AM Reply

At 8/1/12 01:44 AM, PMMurphy wrote: But you need to read the material on which you are debating.

That's a given. Nobody is claiming otherwise.

PMMurphy
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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 01:51 AM Reply

At 8/1/12 01:46 AM, yurgenburgen wrote:
At 8/1/12 01:44 AM, PMMurphy wrote: But you need to read the material on which you are debating.
That's a given. Nobody is claiming otherwise.

Was just adding it there for the OP. Incase he didn't know.

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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 02:13 AM Reply

At 8/1/12 01:07 AM, tox wrote: if you want to listen to people, (not debating) go to the toast masters on youtube, and learn ho to speak

If we all learned ho to speak as you say, we'd all be turning tricks and making money enough to pay for a more extravagant lifestyle

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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 04:43 AM Reply

Well with more vocabulary you can articulate yourself better.


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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 04:45 AM Reply

The best debaters hide behind massive words and really sneaky conversational distraction, and other tricks that make them look like they know what they're talking about, when in fact they don't


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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 04:46 AM Reply

Learning to argue effectively..

Just like me.


I am evil.

PMMurphy
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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 02:41 PM Reply

At 8/1/12 04:45 AM, Xenomit wrote: The best debaters hide behind massive words and really sneaky conversational distraction, and other tricks that make them look like they know what they're talking about, when in fact they don't

exactly. If you debating a subject you know nothing about, you need to direct the conversation away from things you havn't studied. if you let it get techncial and detailed and cant bring something to the table. Your losing.

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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 03:40 PM Reply

Vocabulary is necessary for argument because you can use more accurate words to more accurately get your point across. In some arguments, technical terms and higher vocabulary is necessary.


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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 03:42 PM Reply

Completely stand by your point and ignore any useless information from your opponent.
Try as best as you can to persuade everyone, and diminish those who oppose.


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Response to Learning to argue effectively.. Aug. 1st, 2012 @ 04:04 PM Reply

kill your opponent before the argument


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