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Syrian Uprising (2011-Present)

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tyler2513
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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2012-08-07 10:50:17 Reply

Well now it turns out that Syrian Prime Minister Riyad Farid Hijab has left Al-Assad and defected to the rebel opposition. Let's see how this switches things around now that Al-Assad knows he doesn't have anyone.


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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2012-08-08 15:04:39 Reply

Listen the syrian rebels were all shipped in from libya or actually air dropped in by NATO. These are Muslim Brotherhood forces and not actual Syrians. The revolution clips are actually being soundstaged and filmed in Saudi Arabia.

Propaganda fakes

More fakes

I suggest you research these fakeries deeply


The World's Youngest Grandad has more coolness in one liver spot than you have in your entire liver:

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCklUsDZmu-i2iOFEkWu4Jkw

Warforger
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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2012-08-08 15:09:57 Reply

Oh great THESE people again. You know what I bet Syria doesn't exist and that this whole Arab spring is just a way for the evil democrats to destroy the budget.


"If you don't mind smelling like peanut butter for two or three days, peanut butter is darn good shaving cream.
" - Barry Goldwater.

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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2012-08-08 15:18:43 Reply

At 8/8/12 03:09 PM, Warforger wrote: Oh great THESE people again. You know what I bet Syria doesn't exist and that this whole Arab spring is just a way for the evil democrats to destroy the budget.

Well say what you will. Who is more of a threat? Israel who deliberately let 9/11 happen and the 7/7 bus bombings, who also packs Palestinians into ghettos and pummels them with depleted uranium, who also has 300 long range or medium range nuclear missiles or Iran and Syria who have no threat.

Syria is the war path to Iran. Iran is one of the most progressive middle-eastern countries that is why they must be taken out. Do yourself a favor and grow up.


The World's Youngest Grandad has more coolness in one liver spot than you have in your entire liver:

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCklUsDZmu-i2iOFEkWu4Jkw

C-G-B
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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2012-08-08 15:35:49 Reply

Deliberate Shit


The World's Youngest Grandad has more coolness in one liver spot than you have in your entire liver:

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCklUsDZmu-i2iOFEkWu4Jkw

Feoric
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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2012-08-08 15:41:36 Reply

At 8/8/12 03:35 PM, C-G-B wrote: Deliberate Shit

Please post here more. Sadly you're more intelligent than half the people here.

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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2012-08-10 07:58:29 Reply

At 8/8/12 03:41 PM, Feoric wrote:
At 8/8/12 03:35 PM, C-G-B wrote:

Haha, yes, I agree too, too many people don't do their own independent research.


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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2012-08-10 09:16:16 Reply

At 8/8/12 03:18 PM, C-G-B wrote: Syria is the war path to Iran. Iran is one of the most progressive middle-eastern countries that is why they must be taken out. Do yourself a favor and grow up.

;;;;
Of course it is .

The US is in there up to its chin ... it just won't come out publicly & say so.
Particularly after the fiasco of Iraq ( remember the Bullshit excuse about weapons of mass destruction anyone ?)
So when they tried using the DANGER ....... DANGER ....... DANGER ...... the IRANIANS are building THE BOMB....everyone & I mean EVERYONE except the braindead went Yawn, are the Americans beating the 'weapons of mass destrution' drum again ????

Surely they can come up with something better ..... Well here it is !
create a conflict in the region, help it escalate, get it to the point the rest of the world will fall in line & enter the region & bomb & destroy whatever soveriegn nation they like while their war suppliers reap the profits.

You all know its about the money right ?
Surely you're still not niave enough to believe they are trying to keep you safe or they actually give a flying fiddlers fuck about anyone !


Those who have only the religious opinions of others in their head & worship them. Have no room for their own thoughts & no room to contemplate anyone elses ideas either-More

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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2012-08-17 22:57:42 Reply

:At 8/3/12 05:17 AM, Feoric wrote:

It's pretty complicated with several factors. Russia doesn't want to set a precedent to support a rebel uprising wanting democracy because he's perfectly content with oppressing his own people; the same with China. There's also the fact that Putin is ostensibly nostalgic about the Soviet cold war-era superpower, which he desperately wants Russia to be. Syria is an 11-dimensional chessboard used to antagonize Western powers to Russia. China really doesn't give a shit about anything, they want no part in any sort of foreign intervention. Russia also has a naval base in Tartus since 1971, which was established during the cold war to enhance their hegemony in the Mediterranean Sea. Russia also trades a serious amounts of arms to Syria, which Assad's military uses against his own people::

That was an well described way of explaining why those two doesn't support an International intervention, but could you explain it a little better? Specially the Russian part.

Also I would like some links so I can start reading some articles and making my own "research" about the theme, as I started to get interested by it, but doesn't know well from where to start.


.

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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2012-08-18 12:56:10 Reply

At 8/17/12 10:57 PM, Yunivor wrote: That was an well described way of explaining why those two doesn't support an International intervention, but could you explain it a little better? Specially the Russian part.

Also I would like some links so I can start reading some articles and making my own "research" about the theme, as I started to get interested by it, but doesn't know well from where to start.

A good place to start would be this excellent blog.

If you want a better understanding of Russia's stance with Syrian intervention, you should know that when wikileaks leaked a whole bunch of diplomatic cables, Russia's government was commonly referred to as a Mafia state. It's not just one disgruntled diplomat either, check the references at the bottom for more sources. Putin had his own sort of uprising as well, and he responded by arresting over 1,000 people. If Putin would support revolutionary protesters in Syria, why can't he do it in his own country? That's what every Russian citizen would be thinking which would fan the flames, resulting in much larger protests due to his hypocrisy. Putin has absolutely no interest in protection the freedom of free speech; Anna Politkovskaya's death has the telltale signs of a classic oldschool Soviet-era assassination of political dissenters. The last thing Putin wants to do right now is have his people see him as open to revolution against brutal governments.

That being said, Putin's stance on this has less to about pissing off the West, and more about preventing Russia's regional influence from dissipating. Putin is a relic of the cold war and Soviet-style communism with a resume a mile long, including director of the FSB. For a long time Putin has promoted the idea of Russia returning as a superpower. Combined with his anti-Americanism it's not hard to tell he's nostalgic about the cold war, like many oldschool Russians. But Russia is much weaker than the Soviet Union ever was, so in practice this is usually limited to expanding and supporting (anti-American) allies (such as Syria) and using their right to Veto in the security council. Russia's political elite is stuck in Cold War thinking because Putin is a cold warrior, and Syria has been a traditional ally for them in the region. They supported the Assad's heavily for many many decades. So what they see is an eroding power base in a strategically important region and have decided to double down, especially since they can limit the (feeble) Western response with their veto powers. It helps that the government in Russia has about as much respect for the ideas of democracy and human rights as most of these outgoing regimes.

On top of that, Russia has fought and suppressed Sunni Muslims for a long time in their North Caucasus region (and is still doing so), most famously Chechnya. They are afraid that successful rebellions will inspire more rebellion in the Caucasus. Which is pretty fucking stupid because their current anti-revolutionary stance will only create new anti-Russian states in the middle east who will be sympathetic to north Caucasians. Millions of north Caucasians actually live in the middle east, mostly Circassians which were expelled from Russia in the 19th century (there's about 100,000 in Syria).

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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2012-08-18 13:41:28 Reply

At 8/18/12 12:56 PM, Feoric wrote: On top of that, Russia has fought and suppressed Sunni Muslims for a long time in their North Caucasus region (and is still doing so), most famously Chechnya. They are afraid that successful rebellions will inspire more rebellion in the Caucasus. Which is pretty fucking stupid because their current anti-revolutionary stance will only create new anti-Russian states in the middle east who will be sympathetic to north Caucasians. Millions of north Caucasians actually live in the middle east, mostly Circassians which were expelled from Russia in the 19th century (there's about 100,000 in Syria).

Not exactly. They've already revolted and gone to war and had a de facto republic for awhile so I wouldn't say this would mean anything. Basically how is a civil war somewhere else going to inspire a people which have already been at civil war for a while now?


"If you don't mind smelling like peanut butter for two or three days, peanut butter is darn good shaving cream.
" - Barry Goldwater.

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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2012-08-18 13:51:10 Reply

At 8/18/12 01:41 PM, Warforger wrote: Not exactly. They've already revolted and gone to war and had a de facto republic for awhile so I wouldn't say this would mean anything.

Who are you referring to? Chechnya? Syria?

Basically how is a civil war somewhere else going to inspire a people which have already been at civil war for a while now?

I reread my post and didn't see where I made that implication. You mean this?

They are afraid that successful rebellions will inspire more rebellion in the Caucasus.

Because the Arab Spring sort of did spread to the Caucasus states. Azerbaijan didn't have enough momentum to keep it going, though. All in all, geopolitical considerations explains an awful lot about Russian history. The warm-water port issue alone gave England a commercial advantage they put an awful lot of effort into maintaining. The Crimean War was fought to prop up Turkish control of the Caucasus and to prevent Russia from gaining any influence over Turkey and control of the straits. Putin still wields a great deal of influence in Eastern Europe and the Caucasus, which is pretty much all that is left, and he intends on having a strong grip in that region.

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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2013-01-30 09:52:12 Reply

I know this is a bit of a forgotten thread but I felt the need to bring it back up after hearing Israel apparently attacked a convoy of vehicles across the Syrian border because they're afraid after Al-Assad's government falls groups like Hezbollah will be able to obtain their weapons.


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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2013-01-30 23:58:01 Reply

I was expecting Assad assassination or something, he had a few close call but made it unscratched. No one back up the Syrian people for weapons, yet the terrorists get strong funding from somewhere. That's a bad move because terrorists will buy most weapon available and the true Syrian opposition is left with junk. And no one want to fight with a bad gun, so new opposition recruits are turning toward terrorists groups.

In the end, Syrian opposition will grew weaker and eventually dissolve between terrorists groups, or Assad if they fear terrorism more. Even worst, terrorists got nothing again Assad, so they will open up dialog with him. He will stay in power, and terrorists will keep strongholds in Syria for operating in the region. Israel being so close, they just can't stay out of this forever.

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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2013-01-31 15:29:51 Reply

At 1/30/13 09:52 AM, tyler2513 wrote: I know this is a bit of a forgotten thread but I felt the need to bring it back up after hearing Israel apparently attacked a convoy of vehicles across the Syrian border because they're afraid after Al-Assad's government falls groups like Hezbollah will be able to obtain their weapons.

Israel has already threatened to intervene if evidence of weapons being smuggled to Hezbollah emerges. So when I first read this article from Reuters I thought that's probably what that warranted the attack. However, the really interesting bit is that there's claims it was a convoy transporting SA-17s to Hezbollah. I thought at first this was a typo or something, surely they meant SA-16, but this is pretty much confirmed at this point.

I must admit I see very little point in doing this. SA-17s are probably the best mobile air defense systems the Syrian military has. SA-17 anti-aircraft weapons aren't exactly inconspicuous, they're friggin' huge. I don't understand the logic of attempting to move a missile system like that across a border; you're going to get noticed. Why the hell would Assad send valuable equipment to Hezbollah of all people right now?

At 1/30/13 11:58 PM, Dimitrilium wrote: stuff

The Syrian opposition gets all of their supplies from captured military bases, fyi.

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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2013-01-31 23:27:50 Reply

At 1/31/13 03:29 PM, Feoric wrote:
The Syrian opposition gets all of their supplies from captured military bases, fyi.

Yes they capture one of those every week without spending much ammo, and Assad didn't learn of is mistake and leave convenient stock of ammo and gun for the rebels. And it is more then enough to arm and keep supplied an estimated 100 000 fighters.

...

Well at least you made me laugh.

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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2013-01-31 23:36:50 Reply

At 1/31/13 11:27 PM, Dimitrilium wrote: Yes they capture one of those every week without spending much ammo, and Assad didn't learn of is mistake and leave convenient stock of ammo and gun for the rebels. And it is more then enough to arm and keep supplied an estimated 100 000 fighters.

...

Well at least you made me laugh.

Are you being sarcastic? Because everything you said here is true.

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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2013-02-01 00:15:13 Reply

You're obviously trolling or crazy. The front line is so large. Yes the rebels make progress, sometime they even make real victories happen, but it barely keep them afloat.

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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2013-02-01 00:35:56 Reply

At 1/31/13 11:36 PM, Feoric wrote:
At 1/31/13 11:27 PM, Dimitrilium wrote: Yes they capture one of those every week without spending much ammo, and Assad didn't learn of is mistake and leave convenient stock of ammo and gun for the rebels. And it is more then enough to arm and keep supplied an estimated 100 000 fighters.

...

Well at least you made me laugh.
Are you being sarcastic? Because everything you said here is true.

"The United States is not sending arms directly to the Syrian opposition. Instead, it is providing intelligence and other support for shipments of secondhand light weapons like rifles and grenades into Syria, mainly orchestrated from Saudi Arabia and Qatar. The reports indicate that the shipments organized from Qatar, in particular, are largely going to hard-line Islamists."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/15/world/middleeast/jihadists -receiving-most-arms-sent-to-syrian-rebels.html?pagewanted=a ll&_r=0
..?

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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2013-02-01 09:31:42 Reply

At 2/1/13 12:35 AM, Ceratisa wrote:
"The United States is not sending arms directly to the Syrian opposition. Instead, it is providing intelligence and other support for shipments of secondhand light weapons like rifles and grenades into Syria, mainly orchestrated from Saudi Arabia and Qatar. The reports indicate that the shipments organized from Qatar, in particular, are largely going to hard-line Islamists."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/15/world/middleeast/jihadists -receiving-most-arms-sent-to-syrian-rebels.html?pagewanted=a ll&_r=0
..?

Interesting. I don't think the United States should be arming the opposition anyway because if any of those weapons fall into the hands of those we designate as terrorist organisations we'll just be fucking ourselves up the ass again.


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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2013-02-01 11:09:49 Reply

At 2/1/13 12:15 AM, Dimitrilium wrote: You're obviously trolling or crazy. The front line is so large. Yes the rebels make progress, sometime they even make real victories happen, but it barely keep them afloat.

You shouldn't be so smarmy if you don't know what you're talking about. First off, there's absolutely arms smuggling going on in Daraa, and there is definitely unofficial support from US Special Forces and Saudi Arabia in the region. Keep in mind that the influx of these weapons is a relatively new phenomena. It's not exactly hard to see why: as the opposition controls more and more territory on the borders of Syria, it gives them a direct path to arm smuggling routes in an out of Lebanon and Turkey. The civil war in Syria is unconventional warfare. The survivability of the FSA in the long run depends on their ability to set up supply lines and other support networks to keep supplying the opposition troops. While capturing military airbases can provide supplies for short periods, it's important for the FSA to divert the brunt of attrition to Assad by controlling territory and setting up dedicated sources. You said the opposition isn't maintaining their presence over the ground they capture. Well, there's some folks in Aleppo that would like to respond to that.

To imply that the FSA is relying heavily foreign aide is flat out wrong. Let's just look at recent events:

Here's a good piece that breaks down the spoils when the opposition captured Taftanaz air base:

" - They destroyed or captured fifteen to twenty helicopters at the airfield. Most of these were Mi-8/17 utility helicopters, some of which had been equipped with rocket pods for an attack role. This represents approximately 20 percent of the regime's prewar active inventory of a much-relied-upon type of aircraft.
- They captured additional heavy weapons and large quantities of ammunition. Coupled with the freeing up of rebel forces, the equipment gains should boost the opposition's ability to assault other regime positions in the north and perhaps bring them under their control sooner. The battle will also be a huge boost for rebel morale, showing they can take even a major defended position.
- The regime was unable to prevent loss of the base, one of several such failures in the past few months. Damascus did not appear to make any serious attempt to reinforce the airfield or relieve the siege. The number of troops involved in the defense seemed relatively small, and they largely relied on heavy weapons and air power -- a regime pattern. In addition, at least some of the defenders were irregular soldiers from the pro-Assad "popular committees," not regular combat troops; some reports even indicate that officers were evacuated by air before the base fell."

There was also potentially thousands of rockets looted as well.

At 2/1/13 12:35 AM, Ceratisa wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/15/world/middleeast/jihadists -receiving-most-arms-sent-to-syrian-rebels.html?pagewanted=a ll&_r=0
..?

Jabhat al-Nusra, which is linked to al-Qaeda, is part of the opposition, along several splintered hardliner Islamist factions like Ahrar al-Sham. There's no way to prevent this from happening. The fall of Assad is just going to be the start of another brutal and ugly chapter for Syria when the inevitable tipping point is reached and these factions start fighting one another over control of the country.

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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2013-02-01 12:02:06 Reply

No Feoric, I mean the rebels do get weapons from outside.

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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2013-02-01 12:49:39 Reply

At 2/1/13 12:02 PM, Ceratisa wrote: No Feoric, I mean the rebels do get weapons from outside.

Yes, covertly and sporadically. At least it was until about a week ago. When compared to how much weaponry the FSA obtains from captured bases, both light and heavy, the amount of foreign weapons was relatively small. It wasn't until very very recently that evidence of unusually large amounts of weapons were being used started showing up on youtube videos run by opposition members.

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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2013-02-01 14:37:39 Reply

That air base is one of the victories I was talking about. Yet it took a full week of intense fighting. Such victories didn't happen since weeks. It's a old new used time and time again to pretend the rebels are stronger than they are.

Smuggling is not new in Syria, proof of it are new. Those Jihadist in Aleppo held those line with smuggled weapon paid with foreigner money when the FSA was in difficulty. Money the FSA can't compete with for weapon buying from smuggler, yet jihadist take a share of weapon they help capture, plus buy the best smuggled weapons, plus they are directly supplied some. No kidding they are successful on the battlefield while being only 1/10 the FSA number.

You pretend I said the rebel does not hold ground. Yet I only said ammo and weapon supply grow thin for the FSA. And that in turn let the better armed Jihadist group arm new recruits and gain more importance in the war over time. Nothing to do with holding territories.

I also didn't imply that the FSA rely on foreign help, I did it for the hard line Islamic but not for the FSA. However I did imply that the Jihadist will have a ever growing part of Syria for themselves during that time where the FSA receive no outside support. And this war is going to last for sometime.

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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2013-02-01 15:18:01 Reply

there is gonna be a senate hearing today on the US's involvement in the Syria conflict, im not gonna watch because it will will be long and mind numbing.

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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2013-02-01 17:17:16 Reply

At 2/1/13 02:37 PM, Dimitrilium wrote: That air base is one of the victories I was talking about. Yet it took a full week of intense fighting. Such victories didn't happen since weeks. It's a old new used time and time again to pretend the rebels are stronger than they are.

Like I said previously, this is unconventional warfare. "Victories" here are not just going to be measured in actual blocks captured in the cities. Unconventional warfare is a very slow process, as demonstrated by events that took place in Kosovo, Bosnia, and the Persian Gulf. Approaching unconventional warfare with conventional tactics is fundamentally unworkable, so I'm not too sure what you're expecting to see. Going back to Kosovo et al, UW has historically shown to be reasonably effective against professional militaries in certain situations, so I'm not sure how you're arriving at the conclusion that the rebels are weak.

Smuggling is not new in Syria, proof of it are new. Those Jihadist in Aleppo held those line with smuggled weapon paid with foreigner money when the FSA was in difficulty.

The FSA isn't a monolithic entity. There are dozens of factions inside the FSA. It's merely an umbrella term to identify a loose band of rebels fighting Assad's forces. Fundamentalists, jihadists, mujahedin, military defectors and citizens all collectively form the FSA, although I will admit it's questionable whether or not al-Nursa is a "member" of the FSA, since they're way more radical in tactic and philosophy. and have an extreme selection process.

Money the FSA can't compete with for weapon buying from smuggler, yet jihadist take a share of weapon they help capture, plus buy the best smuggled weapons, plus they are directly supplied some. No kidding they are successful on the battlefield while being only 1/10 the FSA number.
You pretend I said the rebel does not hold ground. Yet I only said ammo and weapon supply grow thin for the FSA. And that in turn let the better armed Jihadist group arm new recruits and gain more importance in the war over time. Nothing to do with holding territories.

I also didn't imply that the FSA rely on foreign help, I did it for the hard line Islamic but not for the FSA. However I did imply that the Jihadist will have a ever growing part of Syria for themselves during that time where the FSA receive no outside support. And this war is going to last for sometime.

Got it, thanks for clarifying. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I do, however, think it's worth reiterating the interesting rise of foreign weapons used by the FSA. I don't think it's insane to think there's a covert proxy war being fought between powers who want fundamentalists running the country, and powers that want democratic West-friendlies running the country. Which would really be NATO/Qatar/Saudi Arabia's interests vs Iranian/Russian interests.

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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2013-02-02 00:14:56 Reply

At 2/1/13 03:18 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: there is gonna be a senate hearing today on the US's involvement in the Syria conflict, im not gonna watch because it will will be long and mind numbing.

I might tune in for a bit to see if anything interesting is discussed. There's not much the U.S can really do here, either way they'd be supporting a bad side. There's the rebels who are largely backed up by terrorist networks then there's a brutal regime which is slaughtering it's own citizens yet, Assad's regime is technically mostly combating terrorism.


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Response to Syrian Uprising (2011-Present) 2013-02-02 17:25:12 Reply

I didn't conclude the rebels are weak, they are just outstretched and lacking the mean to make serious progress lately. Indeed, the army aren't making much progress on the map, yet, it is because they swoop in, kill rebels, and move back from where they came from. When they are not bombing rebels positions that is.

Al-Nursa does not fall under the FSA, mostly because they are labeled as a terrorist group. FSA is not just a umbrella term since they coordinate, it's more like an alliance.