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Sidechain Problem

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HyperTrough
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Sidechain Problem 2012-07-18 13:11:56 Reply

BACKGROUND: Okay, so my preferred genre of making music is dubstep (hardy har har), HATE ME! And usually I stick with short and punchy kicks, so sidechaining has not been much of a hassle. I've been trying to get into house lately and be to be more melodic in my tracks.

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Anyway, my problem is, when making house tracks I use a kick with a long tail. I sidechain the kick to necessary instruments with mixer routing and the FL Limiter. Because the tail of the kick is so long, the effect of the sidechain lasts wayyy too long too.

I know I could use the peak controller and a muted kick (short kick) to overcome this problem, but I don't really want to have 10 silent kicks (each sidechained to an individual instrument) taking up room on my SUPER-MASSIVE monitor.

Just wondering if there is a way to overcome this without using loads of muted kicks. And no, turning down the compression release does NOT work.

Msg 2 da MODZ!!! *This is not FL exclusive. Long tailed kicks will have this effect with any compressor on any DAW*

Any suggestions?


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Acid-Paradox
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Response to Sidechain Problem 2012-07-18 13:17:11 Reply

At 7/18/12 01:11 PM, HyperTrough wrote: Because the tail of the kick is so long, the effect of the sidechain lasts wayyy too long too.

Have you tried making the release faster?

Also are you eqing your kick? if so , how?


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Acid-Paradox
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Response to Sidechain Problem 2012-07-18 13:20:19 Reply

At 7/18/12 01:11 PM, HyperTrough wrote: And no, turning down the compression release does NOT work.

whoopsie


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Buoy
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Response to Sidechain Problem 2012-07-18 13:28:20 Reply

If you're able to sidechain different instruments with the 'long' kick, why can't you sidechain all the instruments with the short muted one?

HyperTrough
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Response to Sidechain Problem 2012-07-18 13:39:22 Reply

At 7/18/12 01:17 PM, Acid-Paradox wrote:
At 7/18/12 01:11 PM, HyperTrough wrote: Because the tail of the kick is so long, the effect of the sidechain lasts wayyy too long too.
Have you tried making the release faster?

Also are you eqing your kick? if so , how?

Not EQing much. Just adding a touch of highs and notching out some of the bass. I don't think it's an EQ problem because the sidechain lasts as long as the kick. So when I use short kicks, the compression works for the length of time the kick is played PLUS whatever you set the release to. With housey kicks, the kick lasts too long and the levels stay down for too long. Confushin! X(

You got any ideas?

...chilli dogs


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HyperTrough
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Response to Sidechain Problem 2012-07-18 13:53:30 Reply

At 7/18/12 01:28 PM, Buoy wrote: If you're able to sidechain different instruments with the 'long' kick, why can't you sidechain all the instruments with the short muted one?

AHHHHH!!! I'd never tried that before because the "Remove Conflicts" thing would flash red. So I always thought it was one kick to one instrument. Thanks!

Do you know of any other ways around this but still using the limiter a housey kick? Because the peak controller can get a bit fiddly.


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jpbear
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Response to Sidechain Problem 2012-07-18 13:57:22 Reply

check out your master headroom, is the tail of your kick taking 100% of your headroom?

although mainstream house and a lot of good house producers in general prefer long powerful kicks, you dont HAVE to have them.

lemaitre and french stuff leans towrards short tails, ex http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGVP85K0CP0

try formating all your drums in the playlist to see exactly how long their tails are and sidechain manually, this is how i sidechain nowadays and i wrote about it a while ago here: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1303181

DJDela
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Response to Sidechain Problem 2012-07-18 14:45:47 Reply

Find the kick that suits you, put it on a different channel, add a peak controller leaving it on mute, and there you go, you can just play them both at the same time.

LiquidOoze
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Response to Sidechain Problem 2012-07-18 15:43:36 Reply

If all the above fails, have a short punchy kick to sidechain your instruments and create the tail using a low sinus wave. Works for me.


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HyperTrough
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Response to Sidechain Problem 2012-07-18 22:16:57 Reply

At 7/18/12 03:43 PM, LiquidOoze wrote: If all the above fails, have a short punchy kick to sidechain your instruments and create the tail using a low sinus wave. Works for me.

Liking this idea! Thank you so much!


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WizMystery
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Response to Sidechain Problem 2012-07-18 22:55:00 Reply

At 7/18/12 03:43 PM, LiquidOoze wrote: If all the above fails, have a short punchy kick to sidechain your instruments and create the tail using a low sinus wave. Works for me.

For me it's pretty similar - I usually mix three kicks together and sidechain only the upper two with a shorter tail.

midimachine
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Response to Sidechain Problem 2012-07-19 01:14:46 Reply

You can use multiple peak controllers on the same kick with different decay times, and if you're not using the LFO at all you can double up by linking the 2nd control to "Peak & LFO" - no conflicts there.

Also there's literally infinite ways to change how controller input behaves by changing the mapping formula.


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Syztm
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Response to Sidechain Problem 2012-07-19 10:36:33 Reply

Clone your kick, decrease the release on the cloned kick, put it on a separate mixer channel and add a Peak Controller with the mute button still on. Link that to whatever you want sidechained and your problem is solved.


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Syztm
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Response to Sidechain Problem 2012-07-19 10:37:34 Reply

At 7/19/12 10:36 AM, Syztm wrote: Clone your kick, decrease the release on the cloned kick, put it on a separate mixer channel and add a Peak Controller with the mute button still on. Link that to whatever you want sidechained and your problem is solved.

...I should really learn to read the entire post. I'll just take my leave :P sorry for doubleposting.


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LiquidOoze
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Response to Sidechain Problem 2012-07-19 13:36:26 Reply

At 7/19/12 01:06 PM, ClockworkSpace wrote: Easy solution: Use LFOTool to simulate sidechaining.

I used to do that before I discovered sidechaining. I think using a peak controller is much easier.


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SolStomper
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Response to Sidechain Problem 2012-07-22 09:17:30 Reply

imo, in this case it would be easier to have another instrument be your side-chain, it doesn't have to be a kick, it could be a xylophone or a hi-hat for that matter. Have THAT instrument be sent to your aux which will be used for the side-chain (if you're doing it this way) and mute it. Then you'll have the freedom to play with the release time because the decay of a hi-hat or xylophone is very short.
Basically the hat or xylophone hit will be playing at the same time as your kick and will be triggering the compressor but it will be muted in the track so you won't hear it.
It would help to know what DAW you're using?

midimachine
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Response to Sidechain Problem 2012-07-23 06:26:39 Reply

At 7/22/12 09:17 AM, SolStomper wrote: imo, in this case it would be easier to have another instrument be your side-chain, it doesn't have to be a kick, it could be a xylophone or a hi-hat for that matter...
It would help to know what DAW you're using?

oh come on... please read the thread before you try to beat a dead horse, thanks.


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AetherX
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Response to Sidechain Problem 2012-07-23 22:18:05 Reply

Although it takes a long time, manually automating the compression provides ultimate control over how long it lasts, what it sounds like, etc. That's my usual solution when I'm in situations like yours.


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