Unique vs Commercial sound

[gavkay21]

Hi everyone just looking to spark a little discussion.

I think everyone will agree that having your own unique sound that personalizes your music is very important. However is it possible to make your music TOO unique and TOO different for the listener to enjoy it?

For example, a guy makes a dubstep track with really crazy non-standard synths in it. The production values of it are out of this world however to the average joe listener that doest even take production values in consideration it sounds like crap.

Where do you draw the line between commercial familiarity and identifiable uniqueness?

[gavkay21]

Here another question instead of me making another thread.

I honestly believe mediocre/bad music can be marketed that well average listeners will think its good. I mean look at mainstream pop music. All the advertising that goes into it kinda force feeds people into thinking its the only good music out there. I think if smaller labels had the resources of big labels you could convince people your musics good.

I also often see (not mentioning any names) mediocre dubstep artist get fairly popular through clever marketing, buying advertising and generally ass kissing there way into oppertuniys.

Not claiming to be some master music guru, just my thoughts on the whole music industry

[jpbear]

not so much a question of commercial vs unqiue but more a question of:

making music for others (commercial)
vs
making music for oneself (original/masturbatory)

my thoughts on the topic is to aim for 100% masturbatory music, the result will obviously not be 100% original due to outside influences and therefore the artist will end up with a piece full of the intention of original matieral but in effect little of it, thus making it appealable to the general public.

[gavkay21]

At 7/17/12 06:00 AM, jpbear wrote: .....

I get what your saying and although i hate to admit it my music is also my favorite music. However i also enjoy it when people like it and listen as well.

Whats your thoughts on the marketing thing?

[Buoy]

At 7/17/12 05:37 AM, gavkay21 wrote: I think everyone will agree that having your own unique sound that personalizes your music is very important. However is it possible to make your music TOO unique and TOO different for the listener to enjoy it?

yes

Example: practically all glitch music, IDM, experimental music etc is too unique and different for an 'average listener' to enjoy

Whether you go for a unique sound rather than an accessible/commercial sound (provided you are actually able to do that in the first place and your sound being "unique" doesn't just mean that it's kinda crappy) is a matter of your values.

[Buoy]

At 7/17/12 06:11 AM, gavkay21 wrote:

At 7/17/12 06:00 AM, jpbear wrote: .....

I get what your saying and although i hate to admit it my music is also my favorite music.

Regardless of how good your music is - find better music. lol

[gavkay21]

At 7/17/12 06:15 AM, Buoy wrote:
Regardless of how good your music is - find better music. lol

New music comes at me all the time. I am into edm mostly however i will literately listen to anything.

Figure is my particularly favorite at the moment and his influence is definitely rubbing off on me.
(Incase you haven't heard his stuff before)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nTw3eG8s9g

[Syztm]

At 7/17/12 05:48 AM, gavkay21 wrote: Here another question instead of me making another thread.

I honestly believe mediocre/bad music can be marketed that well average listeners will think its good.

True, Avicii being a prime example. I mean, his music is good, but nowhere near exceptional. His music just gets hyped so much that people who don't listen to house music often think he is the best producer/DJ out there, when he's obviously not.
House music nowadays seems to be following a certain formula, resulting in all commercial house music sounding the same. I can take any random compilation CD with ''Best Hits'' in house music, and I'll guarantee you there will be at least 5 songs with the same Sylenth piano preset. It's getting sad, really. The fact that a lot of celebrities seem to be getting into house music because it's the next big thing (I'm looking at you, Paris and Madonna, shameless cunts..), is not really helping this cause as well.

I also often see (not mentioning any names) mediocre dubstep artist get fairly popular through clever marketing, buying advertising and generally ass kissing there way into oppertuniys.

Dubstep is a different matter in my opinion. Most popular dubstep producers ( Skream, Benga, the guys from Circus Records), are seriously good producers, and kinda got popular through hard work. I agree that Skrillex (sorry for bringing him up) has quite a lot of skill as well, but his sound has been stagnating for years now, because it works well from a commercial point of view.

Not claiming to be some master music guru, just my thoughts on the whole music industry

I'm not a musical guru either, but the way you explained it is sadly the way things are going in the music industry right now.

[DJDela]

At 7/17/12 08:13 AM, Syztm wrote: Dubstep is a different matter in my opinion. Most popular dubstep producers ( Skream, Benga, the guys from Circus Records), are seriously good producers, and kinda got popular through hard work. I agree that Skrillex (sorry for bringing him up) has quite a lot of skill as well, but his sound has been stagnating for years now, because it works well from a commercial point of view.

Finally, someone who understands who Skrillex is, without calling him a no-skill, over-hyped faggot.

[BrokenDeck]

Here's the question that will help put you into focus.

If you're not making music that YOU like, why make music at all?

[jpbear]

At 7/17/12 09:49 AM, DJDela wrote:

At 7/17/12 08:13 AM, Syztm wrote: Dubstep is a different matter in my opinion. Most popular dubstep producers ( Skream, Benga, the guys from Circus Records), are seriously good producers, and kinda got popular through hard work

skream and benga production wise are rather crap, and i can say that objectively really. uncomplex synthesis, unmature writing styles, boring stereotypica yet unpunchyl drums in general, etc

yes they were the first to become famous with the wave of mainstream dubstep, but they really did not do anything to the genre except give it a low standard for production imo.

[AuruxBlu]

It shouldn't really matter what anyone thinks about your music. Do what makes you happy because life is too short to please other people. If you're into making music to get rich and think of it as a "product" then don't even bother because you're wasting your time. Music production isn't for everybody. 80% is talent and having a natural ear for it and the other 20% is skill. For example, you could mix and master like a pro but if you have no sense of talent then you won't be making music just a bunch of noises put together. I can't agree with the philosophy of a song being great regardless of harmony if it's mixed and mastered good. It just adds to all the nonsense of the loudness wars. Harmony and agreement of notes is a large sum of a song. Mixing and mastering is a skill you need to hone over time.

[AuruxBlu]

Bottom line, make music because it makes you happy. That will be your greatest inspiration.

[Gobblemeister]

Just believe in yourself man

[LiquidOoze]

At 7/17/12 08:13 AM, Syztm wrote:

At 7/17/12 05:48 AM, gavkay21 wrote: Here another question instead of me making another thread.

I honestly believe mediocre/bad music can be marketed that well average listeners will think its good.

True, Avicii being a prime example. I mean, his music is good, but nowhere near exceptional. His music just gets hyped so much that people who don't listen to house music often think he is the best producer/DJ out there, when he's obviously not.

Ironically Avicii is a popular producer because he DOES have his own style, which would be the piano synth he uses in pretty much all of his songs. Of course, people are claiming that synth is merely a Nexus preset, and I'm confirming nor denying that since I don't use Nexus, but he thought it was a great exploitable and apparently it was. Not to mention that Avicii uses a lot of syncopation, something that's used a lot in Swedish house/dance songs (I like to call it 'swedish syncopation'), and therefore can make your song quite popular if you use it the right way.

I have no idea of Avicii's DJ-skills, but as a producer, I think he does a great job.

*braces for 'dick-sucker' insults*

[Carf]

At 7/18/12 01:16 AM, Gobblemeister wrote: Just believe in yourself man

Cant find any other words to describe how I agree with this one!
I make music for 15 years, and for me its just a silly hobby although that is how I like to describe it.
I always knew that what I create is far from interesting for top40's and stuff but NOW its our time!
The internet has brought musicians like us so much more options and possibilities.
But you need to create your own ways of sharing and finding the right people that like your style.
Here at Newgrounds I found my spot 8 years ago, no I am not the best and most famous artist
but the comments and respons that I get give me that boost to go on and post my stuff online.
And then... one day magic can will happen.
Last week one of my tracks was featured on IGN Beyond (PS3 podcast) and that gave me a kick
that no top40 ever can do!
So... believe in what you do and LOVE what you do, then it will find the right audience by itself ;).
Music is a universal language and there are more people then the *general listeneres* around us.

Keep up the creativity!

[jpbear]

At 7/18/12 04:42 AM, LiquidOoze wrote: but he thought it was a great exploitable and apparently it was.

I hope you realize you're encouraging "exploitation" of said sound.

[eatmeatleet]

At 7/18/12 05:01 AM, Carf wrote:

At 7/18/12 01:16 AM, Gobblemeister wrote: Just believe in yourself man

Cant find any other words to describe how I agree with this one!

Keep up the creativity!

I disagree. No disrespect but basically you are saying you wasted 15 years following this advice and have achieved pretty much nothing.

[Carf]

At 7/18/12 11:59 AM, eatmeatleet wrote:

At 7/18/12 05:01 AM, Carf wrote:

At 7/18/12 01:16 AM, Gobblemeister wrote: Just believe in yourself man

Cant find any other words to describe how I agree with this one!

Keep up the creativity!

I disagree. No disrespect but basically you are saying you wasted 15 years following this advice and have achieved pretty much nothing.

I think you missed some very important parts in my response dude... Wasted years? Music is a part of my life! And what is achieving something? I think that being played on IGN and had a track on NG frontpage is one of the biggest achievements I can get personally but every single song that I create is for me and if other people like it, its only a plus.

[eatmeatleet]

I think you missed some very important parts in my response dude... Wasted years? Music is a part of my life! And what is achieving something? I think that being played on IGN and had a track on NG frontpage is one of the biggest achievements I can get personally but every single song that I create is for me and if other people like it, its only a plus.

what about bitches and money

[samulis]

From the prospective of someone whose favorite songs are well over a hundred years old, I must say that you are right on one thing- simple music ALWAYS is more popular, even hundreds of years ago. Complex or "odd" music, such as some forms of Classical from the start of the 20th Century on, require an intellect and an ear that most general listeners do not have, and thus they view that sort of music as odd or strange (well, it may look like someone spilled some ink on a page when you look at the score, but still... XD).

90% of movie scores today have some form of the I-IV-V progression somewhere in them (or use chord progressions by 4ths or 5ths), ESPECIALLY epic Hollywood sounding stuff. People favorite this stuff, buy it, love it, embrace it... even composers do! This is music so simple and elemental, you could take it, change the instrumentation and some of the rhythms, and some Baroque musicians 500 years ago wouldn't mind it.

When you are writing for a commercial audience, you need to factor in those common 'motifs' or elements of the "emotion" or "genre". When people are playing a medieval RPG, they WANT to hear that cliche 3/4 epic music, and some may even be confused if instead they hear some John Adams-like stuff going on. However, yes, I do believe every person should have a "set" of stylistic choices they make- be it using one instrument/synth sound/whatever as their distinct feel, or a certain rhythm they enjoy, or even a full pattern that they use to tie together multiple songs. Even epic orchestral should feel unique to other epic songs.

[Carf]

At 7/18/12 12:20 PM, eatmeatleet wrote:

I think you missed some very important parts in my response dude... Wasted years? Music is a part of my life! And what is achieving something? I think that being played on IGN and had a track on NG frontpage is one of the biggest achievements I can get personally but every single song that I create is for me and if other people like it, its only a plus.

what about bitches and money

now THAT is for the people who really want to make commercial music and get rich without creating with a heart.
Not my cup of tea. I prefer to be proud of my work.

[midimachine]

At 7/17/12 01:54 PM, BrokenDeck wrote: Here's the question that will help put you into focus.

If you're not making music that YOU like, why make music at all?

for dat cash dolla yo
holla at me bitches i'm famous

[gavkay21]

At 7/19/12 01:09 AM, midimachine wrote: for dat cash dolla yo
holla at me bitches i'm famous

What about dem boats?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8T095mFdW8

At 7/18/12 01:33 PM, samulis wrote:

Ahh you get what i mean and explained it a lot better :)

I have been producing since 2007 but only really started taking it more seriously recently. There's two types of producers/musicians in my imo. Fame and glory hunters and people that just want to make music for the fun of it. Yeah the fame and glorys tempting but if its the main goal thats a bad thing. Lots of people out there willing to exploit wannabes too for money (pic related). Commercially music has to have the right image for it to be viable. If it dont look it doesn't sound good (well thats what a average joe guy would think).

TL:DR
I fucking hate the industry and the majority of the people involved in it (epessilly guys that just want to make money and look good)

[gavkay21]

At 7/19/12 03:28 AM, gavkay21 wrote:
TL:DR
I fucking hate the industry and the majority of the people involved in it (epessilly guys that just want to make money and look good)

Just to clarify i mean industry as in the whole money side of things getting its claws into the music and changing it to be product rather than a art