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Assange may be put to death

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MrFlopz
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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 19th, 2012 @ 03:42 AM Reply

At 7/18/12 08:01 PM, Feoric wrote:
At 7/18/12 04:15 PM, Korriken wrote: It also keeps honest people honest. personally, I would love a Playstation 3. what's to keep me from trying to slip one out of the local Walmart, or better, someone else's house when they're not home? Oh right, the law. The risk of going to prison for 10+ years isn't worth the reward.
so your moral conscious plays no part on your actions? if there were no laws you would just steal things left and right? the thought "this is objectively a wrong thing to do, even if it's legal" never crosses your mind? you only factor in the consequences?

Don't act so high and mighty that the fear of consequences plays no part in your actions. If there were no laws I would have beaten my neighbor over the head with a bat for calling my mom a cunt multiple times. But of course such an action is not worth the penalty so I am forced to tolerate him. If you desperately needed something that you can't afford, you might be tempted to take it right out of the shop. If there were no negative consequences for anything I'm sure you'd steal something at least once. Even something small that no one would notice. You seem to have too much faith in human morality. Sometimes our moral code doesn't point us in a direction that is beneficial to society. Me smashing my neighbor's face with a bat doesn't advance civilization in any way. Looting a store hurts the economy, even if there's a moral motive such as feeding someone who is hungry. And sometimes circumstances cause people to put their ethics aside and act without thinking. Stop acting like morality keeps society together. I plays a role, but laws and punishment play a critical role for the preservation of civilization.

I don't entirely agree with Korriken, but I agree with him about the need for justice. I still believe that reporting on a country's actions is something that should not only be legal, but should also be the norm.


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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 19th, 2012 @ 05:13 AM Reply

At 7/19/12 03:42 AM, MrFlopz wrote: Don't act so high and mighty that the fear of consequences plays no part in your actions. If there were no laws I would have beaten my neighbor over the head with a bat for calling my mom a cunt multiple times. But of course such an action is not worth the penalty so I am forced to tolerate him. If you desperately needed something that you can't afford, you might be tempted to take it right out of the shop. If there were no negative consequences for anything I'm sure you'd steal something at least once. Even something small that no one would notice. You seem to have too much faith in human morality. Sometimes our moral code doesn't point us in a direction that is beneficial to society. Me smashing my neighbor's face with a bat doesn't advance civilization in any way. Looting a store hurts the economy, even if there's a moral motive such as feeding someone who is hungry. And sometimes circumstances cause people to put their ethics aside and act without thinking. Stop acting like morality keeps society together. I plays a role, but laws and punishment play a critical role for the preservation of civilization.

I don't entirely agree with Korriken, but I agree with him about the need for justice. I still believe that reporting on a country's actions is something that should not only be legal, but should also be the norm.

My God I really don't want to do this because this is such a massive derail but this happens in nearly every thread in this forum so I'm under the impression the mods don't really care since such few people post here. Anyway,

Man is inherently self interested. Amoral self interest is interpreted as selfish behavior, and moral self interest is interpreted as altruism. An integral part of 'being enlightened' is knowing that 'we're all in this together', that we have to overcome the 'prisoner's dilemma', and that we have to rise out of the 'tragedy of the commons.' Humans developed as social creatures. People generally do not steal things they want, or beat the shit out of people because they were being a douchebag. Of course it happens, even frequently, but you never hear about people actually saving up and buying the thing they want, or dealing with the douchebag maturely, because it's expected behavior. The latter two happen much more than the former, even though nearly every person on earth including me is guilty of enacting on behalf of amoral self interests. The situation you are describing here is a convenient example of a situation where stealing is morally acceptable. Korriken went on to say this:

At 7/18/12 04:15 PM, Korriken wrote: It also keeps honest people honest. personally, I would love a Playstation 3. what's to keep me from trying to slip one out of the local Walmart, or better, someone else's house when they're not home? Oh right, the law. The risk of going to prison for 10+ years isn't worth the reward.

There is nothing here that anywhere near fits the situation you described in the scenario where you steal food for your starving family. I cannot find any justifiable circumstance where stealing a PS3 could be interpreted as morally acceptable. The fact that he goes on to say this:

At 7/18/12 09:04 PM, Korriken wrote: I'd just take what I wanted that I couldn't obtain normally that I could get my hands on when the owners are not around to kill me for trying.

Cannot be interpreted any other way. I can't see how my post was moral high-ground pretentiousness. I legitimately wouldn't do this.

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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 19th, 2012 @ 02:39 PM Reply

Don't act like emotions don't play a role in a person's actions. When someone calls your mother a cunt in front of your face, the knee jerk reaction is to want to kick his ass. That emotional response is a little more powerful than the angel on your shoulder telling you to let it go. That's why we need a justice system. Because human morality is so easily overpowered by other factors.


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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 20th, 2012 @ 02:20 PM Reply

At 7/13/12 01:02 PM, frigi wrote: We need to put his family to death too, as they are associated with him.

Are you joking or are you just fucking mental?

Wait, is everyone here joking?


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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 20th, 2012 @ 02:23 PM Reply

At 7/20/12 02:20 PM, dogpup4 wrote:
At 7/13/12 01:02 PM, frigi wrote: We need to put his family to death too, as they are associated with him.
Are you joking or are you just fucking mental?

Wait, is everyone here joking?

Not everyone, no. Good luck figuring out which is which.


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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 20th, 2012 @ 02:40 PM Reply

At 7/20/12 02:23 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote: Not everyone, no. Good luck figuring out which is which.

I'm not really into politics but its disgusting how you could wish death on someone for doing something like this.


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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 20th, 2012 @ 07:45 PM Reply

At 7/20/12 02:40 PM, dogpup4 wrote:
At 7/20/12 02:23 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote: Not everyone, no. Good luck figuring out which is which.
I'm not really into politics but its disgusting how you could wish death on someone for doing something like this.

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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 20th, 2012 @ 07:51 PM Reply

Glee! We might get to kill him! Happy day! This makes me smile!

Fuck you, op.


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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 23rd, 2012 @ 02:54 PM Reply

At 7/13/12 04:43 AM, Saren wrote: If extradited to the U.S!

I think this proves that Obama isn't as soft on terrorists as people think he is.

Since when is Assange a terrorist????
He didnt want to acomplish anything by terror, he just shared information US goverment was hiding even from their own people.

This news makes me happy. Its always good to see freedom being upheld.

You sir, are an idiot. Saying "America=freedom" is like saying "rocks=food", Assange in fact freed information, so punishing him is the exact opposite to freedom

Just to be sure, is this a troll post?


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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 25th, 2012 @ 05:53 AM Reply

Hilarious, good job OP for trolling all of the kids with no sense of irony.

This is clearly a troll thread. Anyone that didn't realize that is just plain silly.

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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 25th, 2012 @ 09:08 AM Reply

At 7/25/12 05:53 AM, mayeram wrote: Hilarious, good job OP for trolling all of the kids with no sense of irony.

This is clearly a troll thread. Anyone that didn't realize that is just plain silly.

Irony would be Assange throwing a fit about something personal and embarrassing about him being made public.


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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 25th, 2012 @ 03:14 PM Reply

At 7/25/12 05:53 AM, mayeram wrote: Hilarious, good job OP for trolling all of the kids with no sense of irony.

This is clearly a troll thread. Anyone that didn't realize that is just plain silly.

these people making "troll threads" are just saying what they actually think but are too afraid to say, so they use the troll excuse as a shield


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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 26th, 2012 @ 12:13 AM Reply

It is my understanding that Assange merely provides an access and drop off point for people who wish to leak documents.

How does that deserve death? I understand that it may be legally questionable, but death?

Crazy world.

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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 26th, 2012 @ 12:25 AM Reply

At 7/26/12 12:13 AM, JackPhantasm wrote: It is my understanding that Assange merely provides an access and drop off point for people who wish to leak documents.

How does that deserve death? I understand that it may be legally questionable, but death?

he published US diplomat and other sensitive materials. the Diplomat cables had inteligence of undercover CIA in the Mideast and could have blown their cover.

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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 26th, 2012 @ 03:28 AM Reply

At 7/26/12 12:25 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: he published US diplomat and other sensitive materials. the Diplomat cables had inteligence of undercover CIA in the Mideast and could have blown their cover.

This is punishable by death in your mind?

If yes, let's go round up Dick Cheney and Scooter Libby and get them on the chopping block for outing Valerie Plame for purely revenge minded reasons as a way to get back at her husband...

How about we maybe know what we're talking about and how dirty our government actually is before we act like Assange did something that our elected officials are doing behind closed doors every day.


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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 26th, 2012 @ 04:05 AM Reply

/26/12 03:28 AM, aviewaskewed wrote:

At 7/26/12 12:25 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: he published US diplomat and other sensitive materials. the Diplomat cables had inteligence of undercover CIA in the Mideast and could have blown their cover.
This is punishable by death in your mind?

If yes, let's go round up Dick Cheney.

Giving a foreign national the death penalty would very hard, especially when we can barely do it for our own. If anything he deserves life in prison. And you cant kill Cheney he's like a fucking terminator he has had how many heart attacks and killed how many people?

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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 26th, 2012 @ 01:09 PM Reply

Usually I catch troll threads easier than this, but I wasn't in the mood for too much bullshit so I skimmed the OP thought he was genuinely stupid. But after re-reading it, it should be obvious that this is a troll. However, the fact that the OP has support worries me.


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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 26th, 2012 @ 10:20 PM Reply

At 7/26/12 03:28 AM, aviewaskewed wrote:
At 7/26/12 12:25 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: he published US diplomat and other sensitive materials. the Diplomat cables had inteligence of undercover CIA in the Mideast and could have blown their cover.
This is punishable by death in your mind?

If Assange's actions led to the deaths of non-Americans, it wouldn't be half as big a deal.

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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 27th, 2012 @ 03:30 AM Reply

At 7/26/12 04:05 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Giving a foreign national the death penalty would very hard, especially when we can barely do it for our own.

Not the question. The question was if you personally believe someone who outs a CIA operative deserves the death penalty, and provided a clear example of a high ranking US official who did just that for purely personal and revenge oriented motives. Assange at least has the veneer of journalism to throw over wikileaks.

If anything he deserves life in prison.

Under what charge? Also it seems somewhat difficult to prove that he himself is "leaking" or actively doing much wrong. He provided a place to put the materials and a method to submit them...I guess you could try nail him as a publisher, but even then...I think he's potentially got a free press case here (because if we're going to try and use American law to try him, then he should be able to try and invoke it to defend himself).

And you cant kill Cheney he's like a fucking terminator he has had how many heart attacks and killed how many people?

If only we could...apparently evil DOES live forever.


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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 27th, 2012 @ 05:52 AM Reply

The man just simply used free speech and for that he is a terrorist. If it came to that, then it would have to be one of the darkest days in American history.


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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 27th, 2012 @ 05:55 AM Reply

At 7/27/12 03:30 AM, aviewaskewed wrote:
At 7/26/12 04:05 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Giving a foreign national the death penalty would very hard, especially when we can barely do it for our own.
Not the question. The question was if you personally believe someone who outs a CIA operative deserves the death penalty, and provided a clear example of a high ranking US official who did just that for purely personal and revenge oriented motives. Assange at least has the veneer of journalism to throw over wikileaks.

If anything he deserves life in prison.
Under what charge? Espionage Act of 1917. the Intel was was classified and under Espionage Act of 1917 and USCMJ § 906a Under Article 106a for espionage Espionage thought its military its part of the Espionage Act. and the modified Patriot Act.
Also it seems somewhat difficult to prove that he himself is "leaking" or actively doing much wrong. He provided a place to put the materials and a method to submit them...I guess you could try nail him as a publisher, but even then...I think he's potentially got a free press case here (because if we're going to try and use American law to try him, then he should be able to try and invoke it to defend himself).

yet if some jerk decides to insult or be "racist" to some individual or group in a a publication those people can be sued. now just put it in this scenario with Military intelligence and publishing it violating the Espionage Act, Patriot ACT and USUCMJ from what they are going under Bradley manning was in contact with wiki leaks for a while from how the case is going so you can lob a Conspiracy charge there to.

If only we could...apparently evil DOES live forever.

old white guys I tell ya!

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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 27th, 2012 @ 05:56 AM Reply

At 7/27/12 05:55 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:
At 7/27/12 03:30 AM, aviewaskewed wrote:
Giving a foreign national the death penalty would very hard, especially when we can barely do it for our own.
Not the question. The question was if you personally believe someone who outs a CIA operative deserves the death penalty, and provided a clear example of a high ranking US official who did just that for purely personal and revenge oriented motives. Assange at least has the veneer of journalism to throw over wikileaks.

If anything he deserves life in prison.
Under what charge?

Espionage Act of 1917. the Intel was was classified and under Espionage Act of 1917 and USCMJ Ã'§ 906a Under Article 106a for espionage Espionage thought its military its part of the Espionage Act. and the modified Patriot Act.


Also it seems somewhat difficult to prove that he himself is "leaking" or actively doing much wrong. He provided a place to put the materials and a method to submit them...I guess you could try nail him as a publisher, but even then...I think he's potentially got a free press case here (because if we're going to try and use American law to try him, then he should be able to try and invoke it to defend himself).

yet if some jerk decides to insult or be "racist" to some individual or group in a a publication those people can be sued. now just put it in this scenario with Military intelligence and publishing it violating the Espionage Act, Patriot ACT and USUCMJ from what they are going under Bradley manning was in contact with wiki leaks for a while from how the case is going so you can lob a Conspiracy charge there to.


If only we could...apparently evil DOES live forever.

old white guys I tell ya!

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Response to Assange may be put to death Jul. 30th, 2012 @ 02:25 AM Reply

At 7/27/12 05:55 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: yet if some jerk decides to insult or be "racist" to some individual or group in a a publication those people can be sued.

1) Don't put racist in quotation marks like that, it makes it sound like you don't believe racism still exists and is occasionally published.

2) The fuck does that have to do with my example?

now just put it in this scenario with Military intelligence and publishing it violating the Espionage Act, Patriot ACT and USUCMJ from what they are going under Bradley manning was in contact with wiki leaks for a while from how the case is going so you can lob a Conspiracy charge there to.

Only if you can successfully get Assange (a foreign national) extradited and set up the precedent for trying him under laws he isn't really subject to since he's not an American citizen. Something that once again, the administration seems to have next to no interest in doing...so all these back and forths are complete what ifs and moot from the start :)


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Response to Assange may be put to death Aug. 2nd, 2012 @ 09:15 AM Reply

Assange's mother says U.S. bent on extraditing WikiLeaks founder

"He'll then go to the United States, where he'll be possibly executed or perhaps tortured in a prison and will not face a hearing as we've seen with Bradley Manning," she said, referring to the U.S. intelligence analyst charged with leaking classified government cables to WikiLeaks.
Ecuador's foreign minister, Ricardo Patino, said that, out of respect for the United Kingdom, his government will await the end of the Olympic games in London to announce a decision on Assange's asylum application.

so what do you guys think? that sounds like a definite he will get asylum.

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Response to Assange may be put to death Aug. 14th, 2012 @ 05:52 PM Reply

Julian assange granted Asylum

wow really? Ecuador just pissed over two world leading countries and sweden. not like it matters though if we wanted him theCIA could easily extract assange from ecuador because CIA presence in ecuador is pretty heavy.

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Response to Assange may be put to death Aug. 14th, 2012 @ 08:54 PM Reply

At 8/14/12 05:52 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Julian assange granted Asylum

wow really? Ecuador just pissed over two world leading countries and sweden. not like it matters though if we wanted him theCIA could easily extract assange from ecuador because CIA presence in ecuador is pretty heavy.

Wow, I'm just amazed at the flippancy with which you make the suggestion that the US could/should just go and break international law to achieve their goal of silencing this man. Do international laws not apply to the US? If the US were to do as you suggested, what would make the US any different from a rogue state?


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Response to Assange may be put to death Aug. 14th, 2012 @ 10:34 PM Reply

At 8/14/12 08:54 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote: Wow, I'm just amazed at the flippancy with which you make the suggestion that the US could/should just go and break international law

Ha Im just stating an opinion and since he hasn't been napped he mustn't be worth much because it would have already happened before his trial or when he gets to Ecuador. now its going to be a political game against ecuador. to be honest the CIA SAD or MI5 or MI6 could extract him out the country in the darkness of the night they have pulled of a whole lot better ops that we don't even know about that break International laws to protect our country.

to achieve their goal of silencing this man.

Publishing Classified Information and making public in the name of "TRANSPARENT GOVERNMENT"is not journalism it's illegal under two international treaties and the Espionage Act USCMJ 906a Under Article 106a for espionage Espionage thought its military its part of the Espionage Act. and the modified Patriot Act. (Like I said before!) not to mention the other countries that were effected he probably broke other countries laws to.

plus Assange's idea that he would be extradited from Sweden and given to the US and given death sentence is LUDICROUS.

Do international laws not apply to the US?

Iraq War, Camp Echo, other classified shit we have done and kept in a file somewhere.

and counting I would have to say no.

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Response to Assange may be put to death Aug. 15th, 2012 @ 03:42 AM Reply

At 8/14/12 10:34 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: Ha Im just stating an opinion and since he hasn't been napped he mustn't be worth much because it would have already happened before his trial or when he gets to Ecuador. now its going to be a political game against ecuador. to be honest the CIA SAD or MI5 or MI6 could extract him out the country in the darkness of the night they have pulled of a whole lot better ops that we don't even know about that break International laws to protect our country.

Problem with this theory is Assange would not be an easy guy to "disappear" since he has become quite famous and is not a universally disliked figure that no one would care if he was dropped. That is probably the biggest reason such an op hasn't been green lit.

Publishing Classified Information and making public in the name of "TRANSPARENT GOVERNMENT"is not journalism it's illegal under two international treaties and the Espionage Act USCMJ 906a Under Article 106a for espionage Espionage thought its military its part of the Espionage Act. and the modified Patriot Act. (Like I said before!) not to mention the other countries that were effected he probably broke other countries laws to.

"Probably" isn't the same as "definitely" so let's stick to the actual facts and the laws you're quoting. Also since the US is not gung-ho to grab assange or make any plays for him, it makes me think there's got to be some question as to their actual legal standing on what and if they could nab him and successfully try him.

plus Assange's idea that he would be extradited from Sweden and given to the US and given death sentence is LUDICROUS.

As long as there are people like yourself and others who call for his head and would happily see him extradited and executed, his idea is not ludicrous whatsoever.

Iraq War, Camp Echo, other classified shit we have done and kept in a file somewhere.

Breaking of the laws is not the same as saying the laws do not apply. However it is difficult to prosecute a country that outspends everybody else militarily by a ridiculous degree and always has the nuclear option. The law should apply to everyone lest it apply to no one.


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Response to Assange may be put to death Aug. 15th, 2012 @ 04:51 AM Reply

At 8/14/12 08:54 PM, Angry-Hatter wrote:
Wow, I'm just amazed at the flippancy with which you make the suggestion that the US could/should just go and break international law to achieve their goal of silencing this man. Do international laws not apply to the US? If the US were to do as you suggested, what would make the US any different from a rogue state?

meh it won't be necessary. Assange may have escaped for the moment, but it's not over yet. it's just a matter of time before his ego becomes hungry for attention. Men like Assange who think they're untouchable tend to do stupid things.

my prediction is that he'll end up in prison in Ecuador for doing something that will make the entire world facepalm in unison, like trying to crack open the Ecuador government. that would be too funny.


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Response to Assange may be put to death Aug. 15th, 2012 @ 01:47 PM Reply

At 8/15/12 03:42 AM, aviewaskewed wrote: Problem with this theory is Assange would not be an easy guy to "disappear" since he has become quite famous and is not a universally disliked figure that no one would care if he was dropped. That is probably the biggest reason such an op hasn't been green lit.

that or it looks like a "accident" but the CIA doesn't do assassinations since its against its charter and a Executive Order

"Probably" isn't the same as "definitely" so let's stick to the actual facts and the laws you're quoting.

well I think other countries would have laws against leaking classified information about their diplomats especially when it concerns the nation as a whole. but when Manning uploaded them he was hell bent on the US and NATO allies (UK, France, Germany)

Also since the US is not gung-ho to grab assange or make any plays for him, it makes me think there's got to be some question as to their actual legal standing on what and if they could nab him and successfully try him.

well I don't think the Assange issue isn't going to be brought up until after the November elections are done to keep up with appearances you know? after the election secured yourself then get to business.

As long as there are people like yourself and others who call for his head and would happily see him extradited and executed, his idea is not ludicrous whatsoever.

go back through the thread I never said kill him because the Idea of it would be impossible Life in prison is far more reasonable.