At 7/19/12 03:42 AM, MrFlopz wrote:
Don't act so high and mighty that the fear of consequences plays no part in your actions. If there were no laws I would have beaten my neighbor over the head with a bat for calling my mom a cunt multiple times. But of course such an action is not worth the penalty so I am forced to tolerate him. If you desperately needed something that you can't afford, you might be tempted to take it right out of the shop. If there were no negative consequences for anything I'm sure you'd steal something at least once. Even something small that no one would notice. You seem to have too much faith in human morality. Sometimes our moral code doesn't point us in a direction that is beneficial to society. Me smashing my neighbor's face with a bat doesn't advance civilization in any way. Looting a store hurts the economy, even if there's a moral motive such as feeding someone who is hungry. And sometimes circumstances cause people to put their ethics aside and act without thinking. Stop acting like morality keeps society together. I plays a role, but laws and punishment play a critical role for the preservation of civilization.
I don't entirely agree with Korriken, but I agree with him about the need for justice. I still believe that reporting on a country's actions is something that should not only be legal, but should also be the norm.
My God I really don't want to do this because this is such a massive derail but this happens in nearly every thread in this forum so I'm under the impression the mods don't really care since such few people post here. Anyway,
Man is inherently self interested. Amoral self interest is interpreted as selfish behavior, and moral self interest is interpreted as altruism. An integral part of 'being enlightened' is knowing that 'we're all in this together', that we have to overcome the 'prisoner's dilemma', and that we have to rise out of the 'tragedy of the commons.' Humans developed as social creatures. People generally do not steal things they want, or beat the shit out of people because they were being a douchebag. Of course it happens, even frequently, but you never hear about people actually saving up and buying the thing they want, or dealing with the douchebag maturely, because it's expected behavior. The latter two happen much more than the former, even though nearly every person on earth including me is guilty of enacting on behalf of amoral self interests. The situation you are describing here is a convenient example of a situation where stealing is morally acceptable. Korriken went on to say this:
At 7/18/12 04:15 PM, Korriken wrote:
It also keeps honest people honest. personally, I would love a Playstation 3. what's to keep me from trying to slip one out of the local Walmart, or better, someone else's house when they're not home? Oh right, the law. The risk of going to prison for 10+ years isn't worth the reward.
There is nothing here that anywhere near fits the situation you described in the scenario where you steal food for your starving family. I cannot find any justifiable circumstance where stealing a PS3 could be interpreted as morally acceptable. The fact that he goes on to say this:
At 7/18/12 09:04 PM, Korriken wrote:
I'd just take what I wanted that I couldn't obtain normally that I could get my hands on when the owners are not around to kill me for trying.
Cannot be interpreted any other way. I can't see how my post was moral high-ground pretentiousness. I legitimately wouldn't do this.