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Will Obama win or lose the election

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Camarohusky
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-23 18:04:57

At 10/23/12 05:58 PM, TheMason wrote: (Oh...and let's not forget GitMo is still open, we left Iraq on Bush's timeline, and Obama used a Bush-style surge in Afghanistan.)

Confronting the unfixable mess of a predecessor is hardly following in thepredecessor's footsteps.

Korriken
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-23 18:15:59

At 10/23/12 06:04 PM, Camarohusky wrote:
Confronting the unfixable mess of a predecessor is hardly following in thepredecessor's footsteps.

it is when you handle it in the same way the predecessor did.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

JMHX
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-23 18:34:10

At 10/23/12 05:58 PM, TheMason wrote:
At 10/23/12 05:57 PM, TheMason wrote:
At 10/23/12 05:57 PM, TheMason wrote:
(Oh...and let's not forget GitMo is still open, we left Iraq on Bush's timeline, and Obama used a Bush-style surge in Afghanistan.)

Gitmo Gitmo Gitmo

You get Congress to work with the White House on the Gitmo plan they tried for three years to push, then we'll make some progress on Gitmo.


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JMHX
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-23 18:39:16

At 10/23/12 06:37 PM, Profanity wrote:
At 10/23/12 06:34 PM, JMHX wrote:
At 10/23/12 05:57 PM, TheMason wrote:
(Oh...and let's not forget GitMo is still open, we left Iraq on Bush's timeline, and Obama used a Bush-style surge in Afghanistan.)
Gitmo Gitmo Gitmo
Gitmo is no longer a torture prison. The Obama Administration has filed a law to allow the residents to be detained until they can be processed safely.

Now think about how vague and eminently bendable those two sentences are, and you'll see why I'm so anxious to have the fucking thing closed.


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Feoric
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-23 19:47:56

At 10/23/12 06:37 PM, Profanity wrote: Gitmo is no longer a torture prison. The Obama Administration has filed a law to allow the residents to be detained until they can be processed safely.

The whole point of Gitmo was to/is to bypass the legal system in America.

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JMHX
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-23 20:07:25

At 10/23/12 07:56 PM, TheKlown wrote: Cheating to win Florida.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/os-voter-fraud-
letter-20121023,0,2934265.story

Hey, here's something similar directly linked to the Virginia Republican Party, but this one involves throwing Democratic voter registrations in the garbage!

Shockingly, the Republican Sheriff will not be investigating further. Hmm.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/republican-c ampaign-worker-charged-with-voter-registration-fraud/2012/10 /19/c07cc378-1a01-11e2-94aa-9240e72ee00b_story.html


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TheKlown
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-23 20:08:33

At 10/23/12 08:07 PM, JMHX wrote:
At 10/23/12 07:56 PM, TheKlown wrote: Cheating to win Florida.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/os-voter-fraud-
letter-20121023,0,2934265.story
Hey, here's something similar directly linked to the Virginia Republican Party, but this one involves throwing Democratic voter registrations in the garbage!

Shockingly, the Republican Sheriff will not be investigating further. Hmm.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/republican-c ampaign-worker-charged-with-voter-registration-fraud/2012/10 /19/c07cc378-1a01-11e2-94aa-9240e72ee00b_story.html

I think all of them should be busted and serve serious time behind bars. I do not understand why people feel the need to cheat to try to win a certain Candidate the election.


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JMHX
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-23 20:11:36

At 10/23/12 08:08 PM, TheKlown wrote:
At 10/23/12 08:07 PM, JMHX wrote:
At 10/23/12 07:56 PM, TheKlown wrote:
I think all of them should be busted and serve serious time behind bars. I do not understand why people feel the need to cheat to try to win a certain Candidate the election.

Any reason you pointed out solely a Democratic-leaning organization's effort to win Florida? Not the Virginia or Ohio cases? Fortunately the Republicans are pretty clean on th-- oh, wha, wahey!

Florida prosecutors charge Republican voter registration firm with fraud

Working through state parties, the RNC has sent more than $3.1 million this year to Strategic Allied Consulting, a company formed in June by Nathan Sproul, an Arizona voting consultant. Sproul has operated other firms that have been accused in past elections of improprieties designed to help Republican candidates, including dumping registration forms filled out by Democrats, but none of those allegations led to any criminal charges.

Cheating to win Florida, indeed.


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TheKlown
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-23 21:11:57

Is Chris Matthews the man Liberals look up to?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok12hB49KDk


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JMHX
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-23 21:55:22

At 10/23/12 09:11 PM, TheKlown wrote: Is Chris Matthews the man Liberals look up to?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok12hB49KDk

>Klown said, hurriedly setting up that straw man to detract from JMHX's counterargument.

No one's talking about Chris, Klowny. Don't run away.


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Feoric
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TheKlown
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-24 12:55:15

Lets look at history, Republicans gave women the right to vote, Democrats did not. Democrats are associated with creating hate groups such as the KKK and Black Panthers. It's pretty ironic for Democrats to make everything about Race, War on women, when Democrats created Hate groups and were the ones who were at war with women. Who freed the slaves? Not Democrats, if Democrats had their way we would still have African Americans as slaves.

MSNBC trying to use fear tactics to gain votes for their Candidate. It's funny that MSNBC talks about all these things Democrats have done for women, but they really haven't done any of it. Where is that equal Pay that Democrats kept promising over the years? Where is the gay Marriages across USA that Democrats promised? Too many broken promises, too late. If the Gallup poll is anything to go by, Americans have woken up from the lies of The Democrats. Not to say Republicans are so much better.


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JMHX
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-24 14:16:25

DON'T STRAW MAN ON ME KLOWN. We were talking about voter fraud. VOTER FRAUD. You're not going to get me to change the subject just because you're getting it thrown back in your face, bud.

Let's get back to Republican-led voter fraud efforts. Here's one that just came up in Colorado, with the Colorado GOP officially apologizing. And, shock, it's the same guy's company from Florida!

Colo. girl registering âEU~only RomneyâEUTM voters tied to firm dumped by RNC over fraud


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JMHX
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-24 14:18:41

I would urge my dear friends and NG Politics colleagues to note Klown's two efforts to derail the actual discussion once it became apparent that his jab at Democrats in Florida was undermined by a massive, multi-state effort by the Republican Party (through vendors previously accused of voter fraud) to disenfranchise Democrats and minorities.

1st Attempt: B-B-BUT CHRIS MATTHEWS SUX
2nd Attempt: B-B-BUT DEMOCRATS FROM THE 1850S LOVED THE KLAN

Please note these, laugh at them, and continue to press the discussion topic at hand. Klowny doesn't get to weasel out of it.


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TheKlown
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TheKlown
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-24 14:47:31

America has woken up from this Nightmare.

Letterman: Obama "Not Telling The Truth" About Romney And Auto Bailout

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/10/24/letterman_
obama_not_telling_the_truth_about_romney_and_auto_bailout.ht ml

DAVE LETTERMAN, HOST: Here's what upset me last night âEU¦ this playing fast and loose with facts. And President Obama cites the op-ed piece that Romney wrote about Detroit, 'Let them go bankrupt, let them go bankrupt.' And last night he brings it up again, 'Oh no, Governor, you said let them go bankrupt, blah blah blah, let them go bankrupt, blah.' And Mitt said, 'No, no, check the thing, check the thing, check the thing.'

Now, I don't care whether you're Republican or Democrat, you want your president to be telling the truth, you want the contender to be lying. And so when we found out today or soon thereafter that, in fact, the President Obama was not telling the truth about what was excerpted from that op-ed piece, I felt discouraged.

RACHEL MADDOW, GUEST: Because the 'Let Detroit Go Bankrupt' headline, you felt like, was inappropriate?

LETTERMAN: The fact that the President is invoking it and swearing that he was right and that Romney was wrong and I thought, well, he's the president, of course he's right. Well, it turned out no, he was taking liberties with that.


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TheKlown
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-24 15:05:18

At 10/24/12 03:00 PM, Profanity wrote:
The video ON THAT PAGE has Rachel Maddow, a PhD Rhodes Scholar, saying that Obama was right, and explaining the Op/Ed piece.

Please do your research

What she said made no sense, what David Letterman said was correct. She ran around the question, while our President lied to the People. Don't worry, this Jimmy Carter clone won't be in office unless the election is rigged. When is the last time the gallup poll was wrong? Americans have woken up from this Nightmare, and do not want 4 more years of Jimmy Carter.


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Feoric
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-24 15:24:53

At 10/24/12 02:47 PM, TheKlown wrote: America has woken up from this Nightmare.

C'mob, Klown. You can do better than copying and pasting from a blog piece of newsbusters of all places. Or maybe you can't.

JMHX
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-24 15:43:15

Witness now as Klown tries to rope Profanity and others into a side-argument, praying and praying and praying they won't realize his initial point about voter fraud has been fucking demolished, hoping hoping hoping they'll fight him over the video (which nobody here was defending in the first place) instead of pressing forward and making Klown concede that he's guilty of -totally-making-shit-up-


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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-24 16:18:11

At 10/24/12 03:36 PM, Profanity wrote:
But, here's the catch:

There were no investors in 2009. People who had previously invested in Detroit, aka the factory workers, janitors, and managers who picked stock options, would have been kicked to the curb.

Hey, it's a well written article, and it has some points I like, but that doesn't mean Mitt Romney is a soothsaying prophet of industry against the President's CEA.

So, because they had no investors, it's becomes the taxpayers responsibility to bail them out? How does that work? Why not put the burden of the GM's (or big banks) failure on the CEOs and people who ran the corporations into the ground.

I've yet to hear an explanation on why I should pay to keep a company a float who can't do it themselves? When my father's business went under, why did he not get a bailout? Do you feel the government should have the power to decide which companies are "deserving" of taxpayer dollars?

Feoric
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-24 16:21:37

At 10/24/12 04:18 PM, LemonCrush wrote: So, because they had no investors, it's becomes the taxpayers responsibility to bail them out? How does that work?

Millions of people in Michigan and Ohio are dependent on the auto industry.

JMHX
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-24 16:24:09

At 10/24/12 04:18 PM, LemonCrush wrote:
So, because they had no investors, it's becomes the taxpayers responsibility to bail them out? How does that work? Why not put the burden of the GM's (or big banks) failure on the CEOs and people who ran the corporations into the ground.

I agree, protectionism is bad. Let's get rid of it for oil and gas, banks, auto industry, agriculture. Unfortunately, some of the biggest government protectionist boosters are on the right side of the aisle. There's only so much that can be done without a government-wide commitment to deprotectionism and the acceptance that many, many jobs will be lost in the process.


I've yet to hear an explanation on why I should pay to keep a company a float who can't do it themselves? When my father's business went under, why did he not get a bailout? Do you feel the government should have the power to decide which companies are "deserving" of taxpayer dollars?

I don't, but they certainly do, don't they? There are a few railroads from the 1890s I'd like to have seen collapse, but nooo, government protected them. Blergh.


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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-24 19:23:53

At 10/24/12 12:55 PM, TheKlown wrote: Lets look at history, Republicans gave women the right to vote, Democrats did not.

Actually, the Republicans often poopooed womens sufferage until some Democrats brought it to the forefront.

Democrats are associated with creating hate groups such as the KKK and Black Panthers.

The KKK was only alligned with the Democrats as the post Civil War Democrats opposed reconstruction.

It's pretty ironic for Democrats to make everything about Race, War on women, when Democrats created Hate groups and were the ones who were at war with women. Who freed the slaves? Not Democrats, if Democrats had their way we would still have African Americans as slaves.

So the fact that the Democrats have now wholly abandoned those things (even though one of your assertions is incorrect) and the Republcans have b een eager to pick those groups and positons up means nothing? In other words, it's not what you do now that matters, it's what happened well before you were born.


MSNBC trying to use fear tactics to gain votes for their Candidate.

Fear tactics are the toys of the modern conservative.

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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-24 20:21:08

At 10/24/12 12:55 PM, TheKlown wrote: Lets look at history, Republicans gave women the right to vote, Democrats did not.

No they didn't, the entire women's suffrage movement was part of the Progressive era, in which both parties had people in them as such. In fact Woodrow Wilson signed the amendment.

Democrats are associated with creating hate groups such as the KKK and Black Panthers.

They didn't create them, they were formed independently. While say the KKK was very Democrat (they're not in the modern era, now they're Republicans) the Democrats themselves weren't exactly united for them because the Democrats had a grip on Catholic voters which the KKK was hostile too and at the DNC 1924 they lost a vote to condemn the KKK by just one vote. Hell the KKK's main strength wasn't even in the South, during the peak of the KKK in the 1920's the biggest membership was in Indiana, a Republican state. The KKK themselves supported the immigration quota's along with Prohibition, programs the Republicans supported and passed.

As for the Black Panthers, they were not such a simple group of people to call them a hate group, in fact they were anti-Racists and they focused on combating racism. Overall they did many things, they provided schooling for their younger members which was better than the Public School (which you can tell just by the fact that many former Black Panthers have PhD's now) they provided free food and they were all about self defense (hence why they walked around with guns). They themselves were Communists, at least they were supposed to be, by the end they didn't have much ideological consensus as many people outright disagreed with Communism so any mention that they were Communists should have a huge asterisk next to it. That said they weren't really about Democrats, they may have supported Democratic candidates, but they weren't aligned with the party.

It's pretty ironic for Democrats to make everything about Race, War on women, when Democrats created Hate groups and were the ones who were at war with women. Who freed the slaves? Not Democrats, if Democrats had their way we would still have African Americans as slaves.

Um no, the Democratic party back then was even less united than today, in fact it broke apart in 1860 over the issue of slavery/secession. To say if they had their way is a bit inaccurate, especially considering the Republicans didn't want to ban slavery either until the middle of the Civil War.

MSNBC trying to use fear tactics to gain votes for their Candidate. It's funny that MSNBC talks about all these things Democrats have done for women, but they really haven't done any of it. Where is that equal Pay that Democrats kept promising over the years?

That was the first bill Obama signed into law.

Where is the gay Marriages across USA that Democrats promised?

That's not something Democrats promise nationwide, hell Obama flip flopped on this issue. Otherwise the DOMA is repealed and more and more states are allowing Gay Marriage.

Too many broken promises, too late. If the Gallup poll is anything to go by, Americans have woken up from the lies of The Democrats. Not to say Republicans are so much better.

Keep in mind, Gallup was an outlier. No other poll has shown Romney in the lead. People are trying to figure out why that was.


"If you don't mind smelling like peanut butter for two or three days, peanut butter is darn good shaving cream.
" - Barry Goldwater.

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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-24 21:39:52

At 10/24/12 09:24 PM, Austerity wrote: Mitt Romney will emerge as the victorious candidate and be a great president.

Possbly and no.

Feoric
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-25 06:19:22

At 10/25/12 05:39 AM, Austerity wrote: Oh look, I just found a liberal video where the same three fear tactics that I listed are mentioned, including a literal "he said he'd overturn Roe v. Wade".

There's a sizable amount of conservatives hanging people in effigy and producing god awful documentaries about Obama's secret communist parentage. Do you really want to compare political vitriol? I'm not sure that's a can of worms you should want to open.

Feoric
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-25 06:24:31

At 10/25/12 06:11 AM, Austerity wrote: Alas, none of it matters because Romney will win. :)

Are you Dick Morris?

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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-25 06:26:53

no response from Warforger for a few days on my point about Obama getting in the last word so many times in the 2nd debate.

Guess he gave up trying to sidestep it. oh well.


I'm not crazy, everyone else is.

Feoric
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Response to Will Obama win or lose the election 2012-10-25 06:42:22

At 10/25/12 06:26 AM, Korriken wrote: no response from Warforger for a few days on my point about Obama getting in the last word so many times in the 2nd debate.

Obama got the last word on 8 out of the 11 questions. Why? Romney repeatedly broke the agreed upon rules, especially the prohibitions against direct questions posed at the other candidate and revisiting previous topics. Romney repeatedly gave up his opportunity on two occasions to have the last word, in favor of challenging Obama with one or another "gotchas" that he horribly botched in execution. Romney was also (ostensibly) trying to build upon his success of the first debate and come as a challenger by asking Obama direct questions (which was explicitly forbidden in the format), which Obama handled expertly. Obama was just better on his feet. Romney clearly had prescripted planned challenge lines and when things didn't go according to plan he couldn't turn the tide in his favor. Romney trying to get Obama to answer his stupid baits was just painful to watch. You can't litigate a debate loss into a win by attacking the moderator, despite every losing side ever trying this tactic.

To be fair, Romney has had pretty good luck in the coin tosses...do coins have a conservative bias????